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THIS IS SINGLE HANDEDLY ONE OF THE COOLEST ANIMATIONS I'VE SEEN  :happy:

keep up the awesome work XD

OMG! :patrick: I love you man! :happy:

That's epic xD
Seriously, very well done animation right there :)

You....f******....RULE!!  If I ever want to add fun Easter egg taunts to my PSAs, this'll be the kind of thing to do!

thats is awesome :D (do for mario next that can be funny)

I wonder how Ivysaur, Kirby, Jigglypuff, King Dedede and all other less humanoid shaped characters will look dancing that... :af:

AWESOME! XDDD

Ouah, excellent work! I wonder the same question as Alses, but still, you did a very good job! It's really fun too!

Very cool! It must've been a lot of frames.
Can you do this one over Wolf:
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/PunkOld/th_VegetaDance.gif)

I just timed it and it's about a 6 second animations and since Brawl runs at 60 fps it'll be 360 frames.(approx.)

I was pretty sure that someone would ask him to do this animation, I was completely right! :laugh: But it's normal with the animations Tormod made. :laugh:

I've decided to give this ago myself :)  I've got the sprite ready (split nicely into 62 sections) and I'm actually going to make the animation about 250-260 frames to save a bit of file space (then I'll just use a Frame Speed Modifier if I need to).

I've started it and I've done 28 frames so far XD  It's going quite nicely :)

:cf: Approved.

that was pretty awesome, great tribute Tormod, hope the tweaking go well.

I want it! XD

That. Is. Badass.

+1 Awesome.

Holy f*ck!

Guy, you're going to be my animator from now on. XD

That was way cool.
I always thought that if Michael Jackson were in Brawl, his Final Smash would somehow have to be the move from Moonwalker where he makes everyone dance with him.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/PhredLevi/moonwalker.gif)

I love how they smoothly go back into their own wait animations. Bravo Tormod, Bravo.

OP:
(if you arnt doing this)
if you wnna port the animations, then on the keyframes, just delete the translations on all the bones(just by using the paste without translation for the frame itself) and done, there wont be any stretching or problems with the way it looks.

gj btw

 :o :af: :happy:

AWESOME. Enough to give a heart attack.

Will this work with Yoshi?

Technically, yes.  But it would look a tad odd.  Not as odd as some though.  I'd imagine R.O.B or Gaymanwatch to be the hardest.  G&W because of how weird he is to view in Brawlbox and R.O.B because well...he has no legs...

Also, I shall be the first to make a small constructive criticism o.O

Ok the second step of the moonwalk, I think it would enhance the overall moonwalk slide if the left leg was dragged back a bit more.  At the moment it seems a tad imbalanced.  This is just me being a perfectionist [censored], but considering how good the animation came out, I don't see why it can't be truly outstanding with this small adjustment.

Download....now

Damn thats some slick work o.O' i'm getting this xD

CAN'T WAIT FOR GOD TO RELEASE THE HEAVENLY BAD ASSNESS THAT WAS DROPPED IN MY LAP!!!

I'll still smiling and i can't stop.

Quoted for history. XD

ZOMG!! Captain falcon is now the highest tier character!
*Wants to download the animation*
Voted for *gets out of seat and does moonwalk*!

I want to see TCRhade's Tabuu do that. :O

I wasn't expecting much.... but that was BADASS!!

I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT O_O Oh GOD that was epic! You sir have gained a lot of respect from me for this ^_^

WOW!!! Amazing job!!

Well, I'm glad everyone likes it!


I agree. I fixed it.  ;)

SmashClash, I'll let SiLeNtFaLc0N take care of that animation for ya since he's already started it.

Fixed. ;)

Now I need help on how to put it in the file. Can you help?

dayuummm dats tight lol

Open BrawlBox>Open a Character you want the animation to be in>Expand Model Data[0]>Expand 3DModels(NW4R)>RightClick the FitCHARACTER00>Click Preview>Scroll Down>Look at the left of the window you'll see an arrow...click it>Click "Load">Click the MotionEtc.pac you want to edit>Once it loads scroll down to the animation you want to replace(Usually it'll be a taunt) which will be Appeal[something]>Right Click that animation word EX: AppealS(Side Taunt) then click "Replace" then click the animation you downloaded for that character>Save and you're done.

Epic hack is epic, def porting this to my obvious main.

holy [censored], you just uploaded this today and it have 102 downloads, nice job :af2:

edit: how the hell do you add this?

Freakin' great animation.

mad pr0pz.

can anyone explain how to use this? because when i try it on falco he's stuck in a t-pose but he does his attacks

I've just added instructions on how to use it with the download

thank for the instructions but he's still stuck in t-pose

*Wants to see Giga Bowser do the dance*

Ok, this is beyond awesome, but there are some characters that are flawed. Peach and Dedede for example have this weird problem with their arms/legs rotating in a way they shouldn't at the start and end of their dances. Also, characters who have weapons should have those weapons disappear while they're doing their dance. Otherwise you end up with those weapons going through the characters during the dance. Finally, characters that have items affected by wind, like Peach's dress or Wario Man's cape, should move accordingly during their dances.

Peach's dress takes FOREVER to animate (it alone has about 50 bones) and make look smooth.  It's really not worth the effort.  And Warioman's cape is affected by gravity, not the animation.  This is a fact, because Wario and Warioman share the same MotionEtc.pac.

Thank for the animation dude, they're awesome, i love it!

AWESOME!!!

Thanks. I'm aware of the characters with issues. I created the animation with Sheik as a base, and a lot of the other characters have bones such as weapons, shoulder armor, dresses tails, ears and such. I'm going to animate those and upload them when they're done. A lot of hair and cape type stuff is stiff in brawlbox but like SDo0m said, it moves with gravity. I thought about getting rid of weapons, but I decided I would rather just animate it so that they don't go through their bodies. The arm rotating thing is due to the arms taking the shortest route to the designated animation. Marth's whole body did this originally and it was an easy fix by changing the starting and ending animations rotating values by 180 or 360. All the bugs for various characters will be fixed in due time. I released the animation because there are a lot of characters that already work well with it. Also there are Zelda's and Peaches out there with no dress that the animation will work with already.

I have to admit, when i saw the name of the hack in the newest 10 list, i was like great, someone's became a MJ fanboy and has made the most dopey idea a reality. But then I looked. And i have to say, I was wrong. True, i wouldn't get it, but they are still great and pretty cool too.

I must say, this looks entirely professional. Superb job on the animation; I really can't wait to see what you make in the future!
*Downloads*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcE9DVbUKPc

Just to help out some people :)

Mr. Game & Watch works. The result:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygwSYZytIaI

HOLY MUTHA FLIPPIN DEKU NUTS AND SHIZ NUGGETS!!!! G&W actally looks 3d there xD

G&W is 3D though.  His model is 3D, just flattened.

Oh. My. Gawd.

I wish my animations were that good.

Just finished Charizard and Lucario, anyone have any requests for who I should prioritize?

ICE CLIMBERS would be sick, lol

Alright, I'm officially done with this project. I decided to stop at 35, the rest just didn't make sense to do.

lol that's perfectly okay

You did ice climbers right?

Yes

You preview do to Smooth Criminal too? lol

I really hope someone else could do ones for R.O.B., Kirby, and Meta Knight.

How the hell....?

If I do this on wifi will it desync? It looks amazing so I really hope it doesn't.

probably not

Yes it will because its longer than any other taunt in the game, unless you put it on the winning screen (that won't desync) but no one else will see it.

Sorry to bump out the blue, but your blog post is done ;)

http://kc-mm.com/frontpage-posts/feature-movin-and-brawlin-like-smooth-criminals/06-16-2011/

This is so EPIC! :o

Mkay whose the person who voted it was a waste of time? :srs:

We need to add another choice to the poll, because this is way beyond awesome.

I hadn't noticed that project before, but that was definitely feature-worthy. Congrats on this one. o.o

animation looks so pro!
i luv it!!

OMFG, you're amazing Tormod. I don't think I've ever seen you before, but that animation is WICKED.

*See's "Gannon" in the list"

GANNON BAN!!!

Just kidding, awesome animations.

Now I'm really tempted to make Dark Link's Room.

Just dumping some Ideas here:

-Port Sepiroth over Pit, Goku over Diddy, if possible
-Secret idea, whatever that is, goes with the other thing

Don't mind me, just putting some suggestions down.  :kdance:

goku over Diddy not possible he needing just one GFX to replace he got nothing (sry)

Damnit, Diddy's getting to be a real pain in the ass and I need him gone

I'm gonna try Claire from Claymore

Yes, i like tht one. The PSA seems overpowered, BUT its really fun to play as

And Tormod, you + your animations needa stop makin me crap mah pants! Those are amazing dude, keep up the good work.

I voted for something else. You should make some custom animations for Roo525's Heavily Armored Diddy! Tht would be pretty cool......

BTW Tormod, I have some advice for you:
Never
Stop
Being
AWESOME
:srs:

goku is going over Pit or Metaknight or rob :D but still needing animations for Cp. falcon Model since i will port Goku vertex over one of these

(i dont care Goku is over Cp. falcon or not it is mainly for get one that got higher Filesize)

You should, The water temple you did is flawless. It would be cool to have Dark Link's room with a reflective ground.


wow thanks! I've gotten a lot of attention from that MJ animation but I do believe that was the most in depth complements I've received.

Dude your MJ was epic, I can start making Daisy, Donkey Kong, Bowser, and Yoshi just start breaking out dancing and everyone who sees it is going to be like, "WTF!!" and "Damn!!"

But I did see that when I downloaded the animations, it said NoDress on the Peach one, so I'm gonna try and edit it so the legs don't go through the dress if that's what it means. :kdance:

yeah you are awesome at Animations i will say you is at same level as Sdo0m with Animation making :D

Edit: good Goku is winning :D
so one of my best PSAs can soon get done and hopefully work over Pit or metaknigt or R.o.B(with Rob not sure with SFX pack)

No prob

And i was kiddin bout ma pants.

Tormod i'll give you credit if you let me have permission to use the animation for MJ dance on my mario PSA i'm doing its going to be the final smash....
Mario will dance like that then everyone dies from the coolness of the attack epic right?
So could i use it for the psa i'm make plz?

Yeah you can use that for his final smash if you give credit  8)

Thanks i'll be sure to give you credit :)

Most people voted for Goku, so here are the 4 animations. The entry I did something a little different because we may not get a cloud for him to stand on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8gH2w9Kxfs

Loving those Goku animations man, specially that stance. Amazing job!

awesome thanks :D i add these as soon i get home

Epic animations are looking nice there! VERY nice :D

indeed i can´t wait to i get home from school(is at PC on my School) so i can make more prograss on Goku PSA the attacks and etc. and over Pit

Maybe use a Cloud from SkyWorld(Pit's place). Then resize it...texture it yellow...and put another GFX for a trail.

Would Nimbus really be neccessary? I mean, since he only used it Vs. Raditz and right before he left for Namek?(Not counting Kid Goku from Dragon Ball)

Yeah, you're right he doesn't need it.

I say try Instant Transmission!! That was used more often!!

i just think it will be awesome as a Entry for SSBB goku  instead just a boring entry like teleport :D

Hey your back!  ;D I think Instant Transmission works a lot better because it would look cool, be relevant, and it was used a lot more! Didn't Goku give Nimbus to Gohan or Goten anyways? Maybe if there's ever a moveset for one of them, they can have Nimbus.

Maybe he can teleport everywhere then appear at the end of his entry spot.

That's gonna make him look like he just took some crack

Exactly. So do it, MarioDK. :D
jk, you don't have to

Instant Transmission is already the Up B.

thats also why i wanted Nimbus as Entry

that entry is the best for Goku/Kid goku
(also i think i can use the entry for over Pit
just a Cloud GFX)

Ok, do you have the cloud model from SkyWorld?

nope not yet :D

btw i got the files for Down-Smash now but it still needs abit more work
the hands is not like this:
(http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/271064-goku_kiai_1_super.gif)
but atleast the animation for Start/hold is fine

Is Kaio-Ken in this by any chance, even though it's completely useless now that there's Super Saiyans?

yes  and as soon i find that Code in PSA again i can add SSJ/SSJ3 head of Goku(not rest of his body) as GFX then remove Goku´s Head by PSA (so i dont have to make 2x animations for anything and needed 2x subactions) or just SSJ then use spirit Bomb :D
that why over pit he got alot of filesize/GFX

i found a code for make a Bone visible/invisible so i can maybe do it with just the Head of goku but the problem is i forget how now
if that idea is possible we will get both SSJ/kaioken (i wanted both) but they do the same thing only GFX is changed

Alright, now when he's a Super Saiyan, will he be like temporarily overpowered or will he just have a different moveset until like, you use the Spirit Bomb or a different Final Smash? I'm not liking anything that's temporary, or overpowered, know wat i'm sayin?

Lol nitpicking XD  I didn't even notice that.

no still same moveset SSJ will be a Kaioken for make anything fair :D
if you using Down-taunt it will random go in Kaioken or SSJ the only thing that is changed is GFX on SSJ mode but only if possible to remove head by PSA

dont u guys think ur derailing the topic a bit???
i mean, this is tormod's thread, and its about HIS ANIMATIONS, not the full psa...
and the down-smash looks great as-is...

maybe in video but it is abit wrong in Brawlbox
but i try to fix that abit more later

and sorry for off-topic you is right jokekid :D

haha yeah that is a little bit nitpicky, but it's an easy adjustment. I can change it. Also let's not forget that we have two options for Entry, one for right and left so we don't have to settle on just one. Instant transmission could be made a little more interesting pretty easily though (similar to Ike, Marth and Link's entry). Also, I'm not super picky if the topic starts to drift away from animations, if people have something they want to discuss and it's relevant to recent posts that's fine. It always tends to come back anyways. 

animations are made for game, not for brawlbox... so if it looks good in-game, then it should be enough... ¬¬

i tested it also ingame and it needs abit more work but it still awesome :D
can´t wait to i get back to work on the PSA i think i will making both version over Cp. falcon (no kaioken) and over Pit(with Kaioken and maybe SSJ)

I think it should only go ssj when at 100% damage or something laik that

post that in my thread
and no it will be random anyway SSJ mode is just other GFX then Kaioken so it is random you get Red/red aura or you get Golden hair
the Modes does tthe same thing boost dmg and hurt your self
so Goku fit more for Brawl in SSJ

anyway i have almost fixed your Down-Smash :D tormod

are u working on something now?

Yeah sorry I've been away from the site for a while. If you're almost done fixing his fingers I'll just let you put them the way you want them.


I think I'm going to work on Sephiroth next despite the poll results, Rayquaza and my other project will take a long time to completely finish so I'm doing them little by little while I work on others.

I thought Hollow dropped his Sephiroth project to work on the main Sephiroth one.

He did, that's the one I'm helping with.

That project is like... finished. The only animations left to do would be Fair and BThrow.
(Unless new moves are made which is very unlikely)

You should do the robot :P

Hollow specifically requested that I make animations for it... It's definitely playable the way it is but I saw fair amount of things that could be changed.

Oh, you're gonna fix up the one I've been giving feedback on? Nice!

There are animations that could be fixed... Like, the aerials, and some other attacks, to feel more, well, real character like...

I look forward to this.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing! I've looked through the tread and seen everyone's feedback, and tested it myself. It will take a little bit of time but he'll be as clean as an original brawl character when this is finished and the other guys finish the last bits of the PSA.

Dude, you have a gift. Dont ever let go of it. You are AMAZING at animating, and one of (if not THE) best at it!!!

But i cannot WAIT for Sephy's release!!!

I'm surprised Tormod didn't win the animator poll actually XD  But tbh, he has a right to do what he wants.  He may just want to do it every now and again as a hobby.  If he ever stops enjoying it, he has a right to stop doing it.  He should only keep it up if he enjoys it (which he does at the moment, but an person's inspiration for something can easily dip).  But I agree, you're a great animator Tormod ;)



Haha, this too XD

Well yea, but what i mean is keep the skill handy for the time being when he does enjoy our company :P lol And, of course, the company of all those little bones, screaming "animate me, animate me! Make me stand out and put very much effort into my movements!" lol

I'm thinking about doing a retarded FS for DK and Luigi where they just does the MJ dance. Luigi will grow three times in size as if he had a mushroom and then dance across the stage, and DK would impale everyone and then have bananas everywhere while he just dances across everybody on top of them! It's going to be SO EPIC! :af:

Thanks for the support guys ;) I don't see myself stopping anytime soon haha.

lol


can't wait to see this in action hahaha XD

Can't wait to see your work on Sephiroth's animations. :) (I assume you're a FE lover, as well, right? <3)

mmm...
Could someone uplosad the MJ Sheik taunt archives? i tried to prepare the archives with a tutorial but i got T position when im standing

I've made a tutorial to show how I switched Sephiroth's sword hand, for anyone who wants to invert characters themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcgVo5T6QQ4


Yes!


I've got the correct file on mediafire, it's the same one I used to make the MJ video. Did you change anything in the PSA that might have caused an issue? I would try just starting fresh, that usually works for me when I run into an unexplained problem.

Wow. That's awesome. Just awesome. Of course, since it takes such a long time, I'll try to find some way to make it easier. XD

I modified the file following a tutorial...
Thank you for your answer, i will try :D

I made my epic Donkey Kong MJ Final Smash  :af:

Thought I would take a break from animating and make a tiny preview without spoiling too much ;)
If you see something you don't like, let me know. Sorry for the bad video quality.. you can't really tell from the recording but in the throw when he lifts the person above his head they slide down his sword before launching them backwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6XSz4TQJkU


Awesome!  :af2: a couple people have used it as a final smash but I've yet to see one.

awesome work :D

the throw animations look kinda "fast"... i mean, it should be a bit slower and with more detail i think

^ This seriously.

I wasn't until you told us what the animation was did I even have a clue what that was.

The Wing is ultra awesome.

Yes, I got the same feel from it after I uploaded it, which is why I wrote that. My camera can't catch fast movement well. I filmed it again in slow motion and sped it back up with my video software to catch more detail:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRt4HLInSXU

Looking nice, Tormod! Loving the wing. o_o

Also, I have a suggestion for you, if you're interested, concerning another project.

The wing is smexeh

As I said in the Sephiroth thread.


And yeah, the back throw animation needs to be slowed down.

I appreciate the feedback everyone, I'll post some more previews either when the urge hits or when I'm finished.  I'll fix the throw too.

Thanks Cloudy, so what is this new suggestion?

Hey those are looking really nice. Kinda makes me want to revamp my Sephiroth vertex.

...then will ya? (not that it looks bad its great but just...will ya?)

maybe he can make his hair flow

nah, we cant yet with the current model as it has no bones to control his hair movement.

Does anyone know if it's possible with the PSA to attach, say... ZSS's ponytail to Sephiroth's head? That could make for some nice hair.

yeah that can be done if the file size of the hair is below 50KB

or attach his cape to his head and vertex it into hair

I actually spent a little bit of time before trying to hex the bone structure so the cape comes off of his head though I stopped looking into it. It would work well because there are so many bones for just the cape and its already there in the model. And we wouldn't have to animate any of them because they are controlled by gravity and wind.

Aafyre have been asking if this is possible ever since he first released Sephiroth... I'm sure he'll revamp it right away if it's really possible and it's done. It's the only thing that's been turning him off all this time, If I recall correctly. xD

Well, I'll do it regardless. If someone gets it to work I'll make a hairless version.

Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun BALDYROTH!

Lol but yeah, I would like flowing hair on him as well, whether it be ZSS Ponytail or Marth's Cape. Just whatever works. But wouldn't Marth's cape look too flat?

I'm just worried that unless you lessen the damage by about 2% or so per attack, that the over-sized sword will make him a smidget overpowered. *another sip from coffee*

It's definitely possible, it's just figuring out how to hex it.. It's been done before with other models.

In either case I'm sure Aafyre will vertex it to look like Sephy hair.

Thats probably true, even the balanced version always seems a bit stronger than other characters. But at the same time.. It's hard to want to make him weaker when he's just a beast.

2% less on each attack is hard?

seph should be strong, but beatable... and i think it shouldnt be so difficult to make him beatable... even if he were t be the strongest character in brawl, there has to be a strongest char right?

I think even right now. Meta Knight is more broken then Sephiroth.

Although less damage... Might not be a bad idea. But say this in DO's thread, not here. Since DO and Hollow are the ones making the PSA itself, Tormod is making the amazing animations. :P

i was just replying to some of the posts about OPnes... xDD

Well if you don't wanna make him stronger, make him lighter, you know, like Zelda is strong but she's light. Kirby's kinda strong too, and he's light

voted for kakashi

there was a PSA in work but that one stopped becoz the maker needed help with N-B but dont send his Files to me so i can help
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=24094.0
i think he is one who dont trust anyone but needing help so he dont want to send files and let ppl help

Yes, it's the author of that thread, NejiHyuuga12 and his bro, and SuperZelda. I just got the PM request from NejiHyuuga12 this morning and I haven't been sent any files.

i will love to help with kakashi PSA
then i got time

but not http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=24094.0 i will not help someone like him who can´t even send files for help his own project

Oh, so you're gonna be the animator - I hate to say this, but time for me is pretty tight, so I won't be able to do much for the next several days - not to mention I got a one week vacation coming up very soon.

I would check back with it, NejiHyuuga12 just started a new thread for it in Attack and Animation Hacks, and he's looking for more people to help.



No worries, there's still a lot of animation tweaks to do for Sephiroth, I don't know when I'll be able to get started on this myself. Well I guess I did start by removing Snake's Grenade.. but that doesn't really count lol.

:D Close Enough!

No but seriously I'm thinking Kunai, Shuriken, Chidori, and those exploding Paper thingies

No Soren...Q.Q....just Kekkaishi...e.e
I know what I said. If ya quote this, don't bother replying about how I spelt his name wrong. lolyamistilltyping

Then again, I don't know how much interest I'll have in this project because Naruto's just boring to me - I only liked Neji because of his Byakugan and 8 tri-grams and his personality.

Do you know how to make stages Tormod? What do you plan on doing with Rayquaza, Groudon, and Kyogre fighting? I'm very interested.

I thought he was just kiddig about the stage.

I voted Kakashi because I want to see the other amazing animations you can do. :)

You could admire that with any of the things on the poll, though.... Since all of 'em will show his aniamtion work. <.<

Go Soren!

Oh.. he is? Sorry, I don't keep up with this thread as much as I should.

Well, Kakashi is more advanced due to the handsigns. (Unless they're already done by other people.)
Plus some of his other moves may be hard to animate.

No I said I thought, I don't know if he's serious or not, lol, it just looks like he was joking.

the Animations is already done for handsigns but the maker wont send the files to get the PSA done and he needing help with N-B and still dont want to send files he think anyone is going to steal his work

That's what's pissing me off!! Frankly, I wouldn't care if someone used my files with or without permission - other people get more variety of stuff, in this case, we need a finished Kakashi to match the Naruto and Sasuke!

That sucks. :< (Not the handsigns animations being done but the guy not sendin' files over)

Well, whatever Tormod works on, it's sure to be good work.

you mean just naruto we dont even got sasuke psa too all talking about making one but non yet
as i said on Project: kakashi thread all he was just needed was just one freaking attack to make beta come out and he wont send the files to me so i can fix N-B

Are you serious? Sasuke should've came before Kakashi! C'mon man! I'm gettin even more pissed off now!

yes The98pika was thinking to make it but maked a mario PSA

a other guy put a sasuke over Marth on Hold for long time maybe dead Project and yet a other guy making sasuke over Link but also on Hold

(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6811/facepalme.jpg)


[censored]ing [censored] MAN!! I just lost ALL OF MY PATIENCE!! AGAIN!! :rage:

Chill dude.  You're getting worked up over nothing

You got no idea!!!!!!

(I need to get a pic that shows rage to match the facepalm one above)

Who knows? He is great at doing animations. Those would take some time though.



Cosmic Jungle!

Nope I wasn't kidding! I haven't actually produced a stage but I've messed around a little. I've also messed around with Rayquaza alot and he would be the most complex thing to animate I believe. I have an image in my head, it would be kinda like final destination, battleship halberd or lylat cruise.. or.. this might be a good indicator of the feel I want it to have: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsOSkQjHUs4 I dunno, it's probably the most involved option in the poll besides Rayquaza as a character, which I might not do for reasons that I wont get into.

And also, Soren is in the lead but everyones talking about kakashi lol. we'll see what happens.

<-<; >->; That's cause, us, Soren (Fire Emblem) fans, are very silent and sneaky. xD;

I really hope Soren wins. ^_^

Quoted for truth, though I voted for Kakashi.

I know it's true, I was that fire emblem guy who held the "stalker kitten" tittle for at least 6 months lol. And it's a pretty close poll between the two, but I decided to do something different today that I've been wanting to do for a while.  :af2:  I'll get back on track with Seph after I upload my latest when I get back home.

I really hope Soren wins. <.> >.<

And I can't wait to see what you're working on. XD

I chose something else, so...the Goomba animations I PM'd you last night. :)

Sorry to dissapoint, the only animating I did with this one was resizing. I just really like Bulbasaur. (which makes sense upon close examination of my sig)

Don't worry, I wont put off two animations for the duration of an entire project, thats why they aren't included in the poll, I was just going to do them on the side  :) .

The bulb ob Bulbasaur looks a tad big don't ya think? You probably have to get that vertexed, don't you? Otherwise you would've shrunk it already lol Oh and you got reported for no reason technically >.> I can download and see the images.

To be honest, i'd really like to see how the stage would turn out! I think it'd be a pretty freakin awesome stage if it turned out well....we'll just have to wait and see though!

Yes, it could use a little revamp, but I can't vertex on my computer anymore :( I think its a good size the darn thing just stretches vertically a lot lol. So I used the best one I could find. (found out there was already a bulbasaur resize after I did this... but I think his bulb is too small ironically lol.

Yes, I am a little biased towards wanting that one since it was my own idea and not a request.

Hey, you are the one who has to make it. You get to choose to make it or not, so go make it if you want to. (personally i can't wait to see that idea as a stage ;))

I come back from my weekly break just to see that Tormod's actually serious about this Pokemon stage.

Well, he's got a LOT of work ahead of him - but I'm working on two separate stages anyway

I like the stage with the legendaries.

The only problem I see is.... well, one is in the sky, one stays on land, and one is in the water. /:

It might be a little unrealistic.

But then again, who cares about realism?

It still gets my vote. :]

It shouldn't be that hard.

Kyogre in the sea.

Groundon on a Mountain in the middle of the sea.

And Rayquaza in the air.

I s'pose.

I never really understood how Groudon and Kyogre ever battled, it's clear who had the advantage.... @_@

I'm sure that whatever Tormod comes up with will be just fine.

Hey man, I know this is your Animations corner, but HD Bulbasaur is too epic for words. Texture is too beautiful.

I really like the Legendaries idea. I can see Groudon abusing Fire Blast and Solarbeam.

Really? Who? <SARCASM

EDIT: I've got a quick question Tormod about your inverting characters thing.

If I wanted to make custom animations for the inverted character, would it be prefered to:
1) Make the custom animation, then invert the model afterwards?
OR
2) Invert the character, then make the animation based off of the inverted model?

I would like to know. This is actually useful for an idea that i've had.

Yes, it's true. I've decided to explore the idea, and unfortunately for all the other project requests, I think I'm gonna do this first XD

Thanks  :) I didn't understand why Charizard and Squirtle both had pretty detailed textures and Ivysaur's is practically cell shadded. But screw Ivysaur altogether, "I choose you, Bulbasaur!" haha. I'm fixing the bulb tonight, I'm not 100% satisfied with the shape it is now.


Kyogre has the advantage because Water is super effective against Ground. To address the model inverting question, well I'm glad you asked, because I've actually learned a couple more things that need to be done to make it flawless (yeah I know, as if it needs more steps). But first off, you don't have to hex the data like I showed in the video, you can just change it to zero right in brawlbox and then save. Use the 0.63 version. And the second thing is, not only does the Y rotation have to have the sign changed, but also the X translation. On top of that, not only does this have to be done to the YRotN bone, but XRotN and TransN. If you are not doing single slot, then it would probably save time to do the invert on the TransN bone, because then you will not have to do XRotN and YRotN, because they stem from it. Hope that helps, and happy animation changing :) you will be very sick of minus signs by the time you're done.

Ok.

So do I just change the TransN only? Or still do all of that stuff with Y rotation and X translation? I'm still kinda confused...

Also, you didn't answer which method would be preferred for the custom animations...
But, I'm gonna go with the first method because it seemed to work for Sephiroth.

Yes it will work just doing it on TransN and not YRotN or XRotN. I haven't tested it myself but it should be fine. Also, sorry I forgot to answer that, it is actually better to invert first if you are making custom animations, because you will make them the way they are supposed to look in the first place so there will be nothing to swtich around. The only thing you have to remember though is that the right and left bones are switched and I tend to forget a and grab the wrong arm/leg lol.

p.s. I didn't see that your groudon/kyogre question was sarcastic lol. Now I feel stupid for answering it.

Np. (<at the sarcasm thing)

But would it still be fine if I made the custom animation first? Like make the animation the way I would like with the improper hand. Then invert it so it becomes proper. Would that not still work?
There'd probably be some minor things that would need changing after inverting though. Plus, it would personally feel weird to work with flipped textures.

Then again, whatever makes things easier.

The latest version of brawlbox does not invert the textures in the viewbox. But do it however you are comfortable doing it. One way just skips a step. The only thing that will need changing is what I've said. Although, In Sephiroth's case, there was one animation that had to be the original to work right, it wasn't the case with Marth though. I think I just messed up when I was switching it over.

Tormod, epic new sig, sir!

I was using Brawlbox 0.64 to make a stage and the compression was HORRIBLE, which is why I just use .63d

@ Italian, thanks man, its funny that you are the one to say something about it,because it was inspired by yours. I've always liked it with the guys lined up so I thought I'd do something similar.

@ T Zelda, thanks for the tip. I've been haveing issueo

(sorry for the double post, my phone only lets me type so much) but ive had issues with .64 saving, so i use .63 when i can, it just has a slowr aniamtion preview and i get impatient lol.

ps I've been gone camping! :) be back around thursday

You really gotta think about the possible issues with too much animation movement slowing down the game - even though it's only 3 extra figures, but those will be pretty big. Also, you probably won't be able to port this to FD or Battlefield unless everyone shares an animation file, like the way Eternal Yoshi did Poke Floats.

... I honestly don't see any other way you would do it. It would be much easier to throw all three models in the same .brres and have them share the same animation, since each one has a different TopN bone and you wouldn't have to worry about them conflicting.

And I don't think you can have "too much animation." I've seen stages with much more going on in the background.

You never had an instance where your Wii skips frames because of all the movement in the match?

No.

Can't say I have.

Well it's been about 5 months since I've been around, but I had an urge to finish this project. So there you have it. I'm open to suggestions for change, if many people want something different.

I saw make a version where the B moves still resemble classic Link.

Example: Your Up-B is good, just a revamp. But you should still keep some kind of bomb and boomerang moves on him, to keep the classic feel that Link should have.

The bow is a little less trademark, so maybe replace that one, but you should just REMAKE his bow and bomb moves to make them seem more bad-ass.

I just saw the video for your psa, needless to say it was amazing man. The animations were very fluid, you can clearly see you worked hard on his animations. I was also laughing at the nostalgia of his slashes shooting out beams and the stage going dark each time, nice touch. I am defiantly picking this up when I can, and I'll give you some more feed back.

Glad to have you back, Tormod!

your current Fierce Deity PSA is absolutely amazing. perfect animations and a perfect moveset! =)
but i would like to have a little bit stronger version, cause he don't have a chance to the most other PSA-characters i have in my brawl. i think his UP-B und SIDE-B attacks in the air should go further, cause its really hard to save him from death. a few more percents for all his attacks would be nice, and all in all a little more powerful. also his shockwaves could be stronger.

This person has a good point.  Since it's basically using vBrawl Link's recovery but worse since he no longer has his hookshot (and Link has one of the worst recoveries in the game to begin with).  Additional upward momentum would really help.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. It sounds like people are interested in version that is a little more powerful/spins a little higher. I was also considering doing one with infinite magic, so you could pull of some beam combos longer than 3.

For the poll the only overpowered thing i saw was his final smash, but its not super overpowered, its a really nice psa

It's actually kinda balanced.

His beam moves do have good range and size, but are a bit hard to hit, and you can only use 3 at a time max.

His sword as good range as well, but there's not that much knockback.

I like it!!

And like what people said, the up b needs more recovery-ness to it.

Also, how do you get the sparkling effect to stay around his sword?

Only a couple real problems to be honest.
Could you potentially make a two-handed Link with the belts and everything that's compatible for this?  I'm sure many users wouldn't want to part with their favorite Link costumes.
The ground FS's range is a lot smaller than it looks.  I'm not saying it needs to be much bigger (In all honesty, it really doesn't need to be with the power it has) but it's kind of misleading.  Although it -would- be fun to scare your unsuspecting friends.
Some of the projectiles' animations/directions are -really- weird.  The down-A in midair is one huge example.  It goes crooked and it kind of... skips, I guess you could say.  Not sure if you can fix this though.
The -last- problem I can remember is that Fierce Deity Link doesn't work on Subspace Emissary.

Although, I -really- love this.  Keep up the good work, and I hope you can fix the bugs.

Watched the vid. Nice work with the overall moves, very befitting for FD Link. I have just a few issues with it, besides the fact that I've lost Homebrew to Skyward Sword and can't get it :(


Just throwin' out ideas like I used to before. I'm still downloading it in case I can get Homebrew back without frying my SD card in the process like before.

Oh, yeah, I was thinking that.  It looks kinda ridiculous for him to keep slashing useless attacks when the first one killed the guy and the last one's supposed to be all epic.

I took the feedback into consideration and made some changes. Check the original post for details.

I read it and I'm fine with it.  Although, can you give us a good estimate of how far up or down it goes?  I *would* assume it's not too high, like his normal blasts.

From what you say in the OP it seems great now. You're still going to keep up the original FD Link with the new one right?

Edit: I just remembered! FD Link was from what I remember over 8 ft tall, slightly shorter than Odolwa, but in the vid he looks the same size as normal Link. Is this intentional? Sorry for not sounding content, I really am now! :D

Here's what I mean, with him being owned in 5 seconds:

I changed the original one a bit, but yes, there is still the balanced version.

I made him a little taller than regular link, I think he's about the size of Ike. I was going to make him full sized but I think most people picture him smaller because they never play with him outside of boss battles. I can add the option to have the full sized Fierce Deity Link. I should have it up soon.

Edit: A tall version is now included.

Well, concerning the size.  I was wondering if it would be the size that's freezing things like All-Star mode and the Subspace Emissary.  If it is, could you potentially make a Link-sized one as well? :3 Thanks if you can~

I took the new over powered version. This PSA is SO MUCH FUN! I never thought that there will be a Link-PSA, that i can love more than the Zero one. With this power he fits perfectly to all my other characters. Now i got a few last ideas for him. For the Final Smash on the ground i think this would be perfect:

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr26/Nuk-Schnuk/Oni1.jpg)

He poses like when winning a battle, and then a lot of laserballs come out of the sword. I think that would be EPIC!  ;D

And a few things you also could edit:

- The third swordslash for the simple AAA combo, should throw the enemies a little bit in the air. Everytime i do this combo the enemies can attack me, 'cause the attacks don't stop them really good.
- You could make the thrust for the Side-B, faster and stronger. I think its really hard to hit the enemies with this attack.
- I think it would be good if he could shoot 4 energy balls with every magic-charging, and not 3. So you could shoot 2 complete Side-Smash-Attacks to your enemies and not just 1 1/2.
- And i got the idea: When he has charged his sword, and is doing a full charged Spin-Attack on the ground, the 4 laserballs could fly out of the whirl. 2 for the right and 2 for the left side.
- Last one: His running. In my opinion it looks a bit too 'neat, cute, dainty' (Google translator gave me these words.  :D) for Fierce Deity. I mean his many little steps he is doing while running. ^^


But don't worry about my stupid list of things you could change. The PSA is already perfect.

Dude the PSA is absolutely [censored]ing amazing. I can't wait to try it.

Love the effects of it specially when his beam is charged up, everything goes dark and everything I saw on the video was outstanding. Highly impressed.

They go in different directions based on how you aim them, only a few attacks have only one preset direction. The down air can do a "double hit" type effect sometimes, because of the properties of Link's original down air stab. There's not much I can do about that but I think it looks alright.



It is in a similar range to his normal blasts, I'll probably upload a video eventually with some of the recent updates. It does last longer than the other blasts though so you won't have to worry about it dying out before it gets to them.



I can PM you one when I get some time, and if it works I can upload it. But I'm willing to bet that the Motion file is just a bit large. Eventually I can take some time to reduce the file size. I'm thinking 500 kb less would do the trick.



First off, I'm glad you are enjoying it! That's not a bad idea for the final smash, but the more I've been thinking about it, the more I like the idea of ground and air final smashes to be the same, it gives it more of a true brawl feeling. I've posted a poll about how many discs he should shoot, I can see changing overpowered to 4, but I'll probably leave the balanced one at 3. I'll modify the second and third sword slashes a bit. I will also make him move a little farther on the side special for the ground, but only in the tall version. and I can make it a little more powerful, but not much, since the primary use of this move is to quickly doge projectiles while charging a foe. It also has very long range and the hitboxes last longer than most attacks. Thanks for the feedback!



Thanks, I-Stallion! It's good to hear from you.

Since there is a Fierce Deity Link, can there be a Dark Fierce Deity Link? I'd love to see that match :P

This is just one of those top class psas

Very good job with Fierce Deity Link. I appreciate all the work done on the sword; the edits make it look like the real Fierce Deity Sword, unlike some other FDL models where the sword still looks like an edited Master Sword. Lots of powerhouse, two-handed sword action in this PSA, and I like the callbacks to Majora's Mask with the jumping animations. The little double-helix spin on his taunt is a nice touch.

I'd like to see what you can do on that Sephiroth PSA. The current Sephiroth PSA could use some work, and it's a bit overshadowed by the smooth animations in the FFVII Cloud Strife Moveset.

Previews for my latest project that I'm working on are in the original post. Give me some feedback/suggestions!

Ooooh, I'm liking this idea. You're using the vertexes, correct? I'd normally recommend using model imports for accuracy's sake, but the ones on the Vault are a bit... iffy.

I'm loving how you plan on implementing their abilities, I just hope you'll be able to implement some more creative ideas within Brawl limitations. Hopefully Squirtle's Blastiose's water attacks will actually do damage this time around. I also like the coloring of Ivy's Razor Leaf, I recognized it as being Petal Dance before actually reading it. Shadow Claw looks cool, though I'm hoping maybe you'd find some way to implement Dragon Claw?

I'd like to hear what ideas you have for the Final Smash, though I think the original one is still really good.

Yes, I started this before the imports came out(they won't be compatible with my motion files anyways). Though I'm not using the vertexes on the vault, I did my own vertex/texture for Venusaur and Blastoise that will be available when I release this. I have thought of the idea of giving Blastoise a completely different Neutral B all together, but more to come on that.
I was originally going to do Dragon Claw instead of Shadow Claw, but it seemed like it would be confused for just another fire attack. I can probably implement it in place of shadow claw. It would have a little bit of a start up lag as flames swirled around him, then two quick powerful slashes, dealing Slash2 hit.

As for the final smash, I may mess around with that a bit, but to use the original final smash would require modifying the "Charizard-Ivysaur-Squirtle-in-one" Model, and for a 2 second final smash I don't know if it's worth the effort.

I think Dragon Claw is a better side special than Shadow Claw.

Shadow Claw also doesn't look well with Charizard anyways. It looks WAAY to out of place.

I was planning on editing charizard myself and coincedentally, dragon claw was going to be the planned side special. But, I decided not to... Since I probably wouldn't have finished it...

But I'll suggest what I was going to do graphic wise:
You should use Brawl's GFX#5 for Dragon Claw (times 3 cause of the claws) And it should give it a nice look to it. And add a quick flash effect during the slash.

Just a suggestion.

Alrighty then, Dragon claw it is, I don't know graphic 5 by heart, but I'll check it out and make the move look nice.

Congratulations on making the team, Tormod.

More than deserved.

Yaaaay Dragon Claw.


They're all combined into one model?

Wow. Yeah, that isn't worth editing I suppose. XD

Looking forward to what you have planned for it.

For Dragon Claw, should it be purplish, bluish aura? Or bluish, reddish aura?

Dragon Claw was decided after that video. In that video, it shows Shadow Claw.

And it should be blue-ish.

I'm not liking the fact Venasaur recovers health from simply grabbing a foe...

That seems a bit overpowered if you ask me.


Since grabbing a foe isn't that hard to do, and the reward is VERY high...

Not really since if you noticed, the pummel as a compromise doesn't deal any damage.  And unless you're playing something like Sudden Death then you'll only get about 1-3 pummels off against competent players.  Heck even Project M Ivysaur has it and has had it for ages (he's not in demo 2 atm, we're still working on him) and honestly it's no where near as powerful or abusable as you may think (and he actually does deal damage in his pummel).

That said though, if he were to heal I think it should be 1% instead of 2% each pummel.  And also make sure it doesn't stack past 0%.

Thanks Italian  :D


I can put it down to one percent damage. And if necessary when I get more into the balancing stages, I'll reduce the amount of attacks you can fit in per grab. But I like the idea of Venusaur being able to absorb health in some form at least, since it's characteristic of his fighting style in the games.

Hm... THAT might work. One pummel per grab, and it would heal about 3%?

This way, it wouldn't be a HUGE advantage, but it would heal a good bit if you manage to punish your foe enough with it. They would have to avoid getting grabbed too much. Which is quite possible. Or else the Ice Climbers would be impossible to beat. XD


So yeah, that should be a fair trade off for Venasaur's pummel. Recovers health, but in exchange, can not pummel like other characters. He can only pummel once, and deals no damage to the foe.

I say let him have as many pummels as he likes.

With, i'm assuming, that Venasaur won't have that great of a recovery and because of the type-advantages thing in Brawl, such that alot of characters have fire-based moves so they have increased knockback on Venasaur, so it could use a bit of help from healing.

And by "won't have that great of a recovery", I meant that it'd be easy for other players to prevent his recovery. (Like Ivysaur)

I disagree. Make him pummel at a slow speed and only drain 1%. People never do more than 3 or 5 pummels against good players normally.

His jumps aren't that great, however at the momen't his vine actually shoots out very far to grab the ledge, though I will probably do something to change that.
Also, I will probably stick with this set up ^

Is it possible for each Pokemon to have its own individual final smash? I think that Hydro Cannon, Blast Burn, and Frenzy Plant would make awesome final smashes.

I also think that a cool neutral B for Venusaur would be solarbeam (your Egoraptor references are in another castle, guys).

Those are just my thoughts, of course. Great job so far!

For the solarbeam, you mean something like Squirtle's water gun?

so the venusaur and blastoise are vertexes? they look epic and that moveset seems to be preety fun  i will be waiting and checking the 3 pokes psas :P(venusaur looks badass :srs:)

also agree with dd venusaur just recovers heath too quickly  he ca probably be unstoppable if used right  and just a question so the abilities only activate when they are exausted? what if we have the infinite stamina code? wouldnt  the abilities activate by damage instead? since they do activate depending on health and ssb health is %

this is a really cool concept going on. I am really hyped for this project especially that venasaur. liking the leech seed idea but if solarbeam could be implemented that would be cool too. I hope we get to see more previews soon  :)

looking at tormo he hasnt been on kcmm in two weeks i hope he didnt give up brawl hacking atleast not until he releases those vertexes atleast :P

it said he was online on the 24th i think that was just last week. but i hope he didnt stop hacking too.

what  meant was posting xD

That Blastoise  ;D

No worries, I'm still chipping away at this. Life is just taking priority.


Don't worry, Venusuar won't be overpowered. He won't actually get that much health from it, and it's going to be fairly simple to dodge his grab for a skilled player, leaving him wide open.
I decided to use stamina instead of percent damage because it is specific to each pokemon. Meaning you would be able to switch back and forth and all three would have it at once. Since there is a great advantage in switching during a battle, it is kept in check by the fact that constant switching keeps you from getting the ability, allowing for a more strategic approach.

I will update the OP once I realease another preview video (which should be fairly soon).
-I have adjusted the fighting speeds and power so they are currently balanced.
-Charizard now has Dragon Claw for side B.
-I fixed leach/bullet seed so each seed does a little less damage directly, but contributes to flower growth on -the foe's head which causes continual damage for a short time.
-I've created "Mewtwo's Pokemon" textures for all three.
-I've worked on the final smash, however for some reason my setup does not allow me to use a modified "3-in-one" pokemon model for the final smash... Nor can I get the single pokemon to stay on screen when the final smash graphic effects are added. So for now, each pokemon has their own final smash (fire blast, hydro pump, or solar beam) and it is used in the first person view. I also cannot modify items in-game so if anyone knows the problem, let me know.
-Blastoise's neutral B does damage, however I kept the charging ability, since I think it offers a nice dynamic, and the blast of water can be aimed up or down while blasting.
-things left before next preview: a few animation edits on all three of them, and a few PSA adjustments to Venusaur.

you might have already said this but are you making blastoise heavier than he is in the preview vid?

Yes, he is plenty heavy now  ;)

tormod that progress looks great xD always wanted something over the pokes and a psa like this is what we need :P also now its possible to make size mods without fitmotion so if you need to save some filespace on the fitmotion  just look here  http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=45130.0 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=45130.0)  i made this work on ivisaur and squirtle models using the eyeyellowM :P

*Posts before you do <_<*

Can't wait for that preview, Tormod!

Lol yeah had some rearranging to do in the OP. Speaking of which, that's there the new previews can be found.

Hm... I'm gonna be honest here.

Not much really seems different with these Pokemon. There should be more new moves then what there is.


It seems like there should be more in game moves utilized. Like Solar Beam for Venasaur, Hydro Pump for Blastose... Stuff like that.

But that's just my 2 Pokedollars.

from the preview  the only one that seemed to be potencially unbalanced was venusaur that N-B and side B seem they might be abit spammable and rack up damage preety fast other than that only testing for ourselves  we can see the true dimension of the char balance.

also why such an old mewtwo? there are much better mewtwo models on bv right now :P

"Hmm.. I think I need to test it out to know for sure."
^This.

couldn't blastoise get its own version of bowser's fortress move for his up b which would be reminisant to the blastoise in the first pokemon movie. couldn't u have waterfall act like surf and become his side b move. i think blastoise would look funny doing what squirtle does for his up b

or maybe change the side b to aqua jet to offset his normal slow approches

hmm i think rapid spin would be a cool change for his up b it would make sense

Thanks for the feedback. My main goal here wasn't to replace the old pokemon's moves, since they are fitting to their evolved counerparts. My first concern is making their play-style akin to their stats and play styles in the pokemon games. Solar Beam and Hydro Pump are currently already the final smashes for those two. However if more people agree that certain moves should be replaced with other ones, I will be inclined to change them.
I have also thought of creating a separate version with a less powerful and less theatric version of fire blast, solar beam and hydro pump for the individual pokemon slots, since they don't get a final smash.

Yes, I'm curious to see how other people play with them to see how spamable they are. As for the opponent in the video, I think I set him at level 1 so I could scroll through the moves and not have to worry too much about defending myself. Hopefully a better player would be able to escape getting stuck in a damage reel.

I'll probably play around with them a little more against some level 9'ers and see whether or not a specific one emerges as unbalanced.

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Post Merge: June 06, 2012, 02:00:09 PM

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That could be done. I had actually thought of the side B as surf but I couldn't think of what to replace his up B with at the time. I didn't remember him doing the up spinning thing in the movie.

@41min and 39 secs is the blastoise fight

Pokemon The First Movie: MewTwo Strikes Back (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM48Y1oq214#ws)

tormod you could also give them downB moves its possible atleast while on the ground since its like peachs doesnt read codding while on the air(there is  a way around this since some mods like brawl- make peach downB work on the air)

Venusaur downB random chance of Poisonpowder or Sleep Powder around venusaur making either flower or sleep.

Venusaur side B Leaf storm its a chargable move that would fire 1 leaf to 5 5 leafs depending on the charge


Charizard down B rock slide charizard hits the ground doing a power stomp  impaling anyone caught in it and then two rocks com from the sky hitting in front and back of charizard doing additional damage


Blastoise down B ice wind/ice beam  either like the IC or an shorte ice beam that takes time to charge

blastoise side b surf use up B graphic and make him do surf side ways like pokemon stadium he is in the middle/top of the wave

blastoise Up B rapid spin works like bowser up B

fell free to use any of this ideas

Or just keep Down B as it is. A move to swap between them. I mean, it's still meant to be Pokemon Trainer, not independent Pokemons, am I right?

i believe animaine just said these above your post -_-

edit:i think the down b should stay the same and trainer should have the dark shadow on his face like Red from gold and silver

Hydro Pump, Solar Beam, and Fire Blast are necessary, in my opinion.
If at all possible, maybe you can add Down-B's to each Pokemon, and make the Pokemon swap a taunt? That way they're still totally usable even when separate.

Here is how I would do it:
Blastoise:
Up-B: Rapid Spin like Bowser with water coming from the cannons to push people back
Side-B: Surf - Dash across the stage on a wave.
Neutral-B: Hydro Pump - Charge up a blast of water from his cannons that is more powerful and has more range than Squirtle. OR Hydro Cannon - Similarly charge up a blast of water that is MORE powerful, but instantly puts Blastoise into exhaustion after use. (Blastoise needs to recharge!)


Venusaur:
Up-B: Vine Whip - you really can't do much with this.
Side-B: Razor Leaf as it is OR Seed Bomb - Venusaur aims his plant and shoots seeds, similar to Yoshi's eggs, that blow up on impact.
Neutral-B: Solarbeam - Charge up a massive blast of light energy that shoots straight across. Maybe it can be aimed. Instantly puts Venusaur in exhaustion if fully charged. (Venusaur needs to recharge!) OR Frenzy Plant - Charge up a big storm of leaves and vines that ground the opponent. Instantly puts Venusaur in exhaustion if fully charged. (Venusaur needs to recharge!)
If you were to go with Seed Bomb, you can switch that with Up-B like Yoshi, and make Vine Whip an extended Side-B that can still grab the edges.

Final Smash - Elemental Pledge
Based on the moves from Gen 5, Fire/Grass/Water Pledge, the three Pokemon blast in front them massive pillars of Water, Fire, and Leaves. In the games these can be combined, so it works. If there was ANY way to change it based on which Pokemon initiated it, you can get even further into detail. I'll stop here because I'm assuming that's impossible.
(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/9/97/Grass_Pledge.png)(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/4/48/Water_Pledge.png)(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/d/d9/Fire_Pledge.png)

This is by far the best ideas I've seen.

Even the Final Smash is perfect.

Should I write one up for Charizard too? And Down-B's if Pokemon-Swap is able to be made a taunt?

an alternative to the surf idea that i mentioned adding on to the aqua jet idea if it is used instead he shouldn't go into his shell for it i think he should slide across with more water around him than squirtle had with withdraw
and the impact should be strong-moderatle strong imo (blastoise is a big guy). this helps blastoise attack faster characters and would be a strong special since the up b and n-b i would suspect are not.  i hope all our move suggestions are not unwelcome (double negative)

Charizard:
Up-B - Fly. Keep it the same. No reason to change this.
Side-B - Flare Blitz - Powerful firey charging attack that does a small amount of recoil on contact. OR Fire Fang - Similar to Wario's chomp, Charizard bites his opponent with firey fangs.
Neutral-B - Fire Blast - Charge up a powerful burst of fire with six points of contact, the center being the most powerful and five points in a star shape.
(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/b/b7/Fire_Blast.png)

If changing the Pokemon Change to be a taunt is possible, I would also add all of these Down-B moves.

Venusaur: Sleep Powder - Powder rains down surrounding Venusaur, putting any character it makes contact with to sleep. OR Leaf Storm - Leaves surround Venusaur and then blast left and right outward.

Blastoise: Aqua Tail - Blastoise spins around with his tail and does water/physical damage to anyone he makes contact with. OR - Withdraw - Blastoise withdraws into his shell and prevents any damage that he may take. OR - Brine - Causes water to rain down surrounding Blastoise (or next to him) - does more damage if Blastoise is in exhaustion.

Charizard: (Alternate) Flamethrower - I know it used to be Neutral-B, but it would also work as a down-b. I would change it like this:  Charizard can face the camera/away from the camera, and blast his fire downward, causing his flamethrower to go both left and right.

you cant just make the pokemon exaust after a move that its not possible by psa since pokemon stamina uses time and we cant change the time or stamina by psa

You can remove that part of the attack I made and it still works.

the stamina part would also have made the poke ability activate to easily with the exhaustion moves

lol i know that u said that i was just saying  :P

Well... I know what Im doing tonight... Thank you for side-tracking me...

These are all great suggestions. When it comes to Hydro pump, Solar Beam, and Fire blast, I think attacks in the pokemon games that are 120 and above are probably best fit for the final smash tier. Most of the time I don't use them in the pokemon games anyways because of their low pp/hit percentage/needs to charge or recharge.


I would give the individual pokemon down B's. But when using pokemon trainer, the lack of a down B as an attack is probably to best way to counteract the advantage of being able to switch your character on the spot. Even if the Individuals cannot have their down B edited, the codes for a new Down B can be piggy backed on Neutral B with a down directional if statement.

Also, my original plan was to put ice beam on Blastoise, since I've always had that move with Blastoise. We'll see for the individual pokemon maybe.


You can change the final smash based on who initiated it, that's currently how I have the final smash set up. Before I get too excited about doing final smash edits, I have to find the code, that allows one to edit the tri-pokemon model in the final smash. Because right now that model is literally a 4th switch for whatever pokemon you have out. The fact that it doesn't replace on my brawl makes me wonder how many others it wont replace on.
Anyways, I might be able to stop the switch from triggering, but best case scenario that leaves only one pokemon for each final smash.

I feel like if you're going with a specifically fully evolved team, those moves are necessary to include. You can add recoil damage/attack lag/difficulty to make contact to make up for their power. Ganondorf's moves are undeniably powerful, but he's slow so they're hard to pull off. Similar idea. I reeeealllly think you should go that path, would make them feel more legit.

I considered mentioning Ice attacks in the moveset I typed up, but then I thought about it and thought Water moves are more appropriate. That's just me.

As for adding down-b's being unfair - there is still the point of exhaustion, you can't keep them out for too long. Although you're going for the whole Pokemon trainer here, consider this: You're making three fully fledged Pokemon, and MANY people use them separate. You'd be doing immensely more for the community and Brawl players as a whole to treat them as individuals that happen to come together under Pokemon trainer.

That's just my opinion though.

Now, for that final smash pledge idea, assuming you CAN change the smash depending on who initiates, I was going to suggest adding secondary effects but the Water/Fire and Grass/Fire ones don't make much sense for brawl.

I can only think of one variant of Elemental Pledge right now.
 Water blasts from either side push opponents into massive pillars of fire that is surrounded by a trapping and lifting whirlwind of leaves.

Sounds complicated, so I did a crude paint drawing of the vision.
(http://i.imgur.com/ddrrZ.png)

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Post Merge: June 07, 2012, 05:54:53 AM

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I have a Whirlwind of Leaves in the Link PSA I have in my hacks, but it was given to me by -HERO- so I'm not sure which Link in the vault it is.

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Post Merge: June 07, 2012, 06:01:39 AM

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Edit: I got it. To compensate for the Down-B issue.

Since the moves are particularly powerful/moves that need recharging (sans Charizard, but for the sake of equality...), is it at all possible to add Jigglypuff's "Rest" effect, or the broken-shield-stun effect following the use of a move?

Since rechargable moves need a turn of rest, this makes sense. Use the powerful move at full power and put yourself into a vulnerable state for a few seconds.

I'm not saying not to have them, I just think they are better saved for the final smash, unless this 5th generation pledge thing is implemented. The Trainer pokemon and individual options will be available rather than just one option. Trainer pokemon can always also be used as individuals, but an individual PSA for each one the implements down B usage will freeze when using the trainer. As I said before, for the individual characters only, I wouldn't mind giving them Hydro pump, solar beam and fire blast, since they cannot use smash balls.
Anyways, I've added a new poll to see what everyone else things on that matter. I'd like to hear other people's opinion on it before I start coding it.

I can and have changed the final smash based on who initiates it. These three characters coneveniently come with an even larger selection of fire/water/grass graphics. I know the perfect one for those leaves in the pledge (the appear in certain moves and up and down taunts, but they can be made larger and way more leaves added) also Blastoise has his own water pillar graphic in his up smash that can be made larger and to last continually. There's plenty of fire graphics to choose from so all of the ingredients are there for this pledge final smash. The only thing I have to get around is that silly final smash model. Hmm... I might upload one with modified textures later and put a poll to see how many people can replace it in game by putting it on their SD card.

the pledges are cool and all but there base power i think is like 50 having fire blast as a b move makes the fire pledge seem meh now if the final smash was blast burn,hydro canon, and leaf storm instead then thats a more worthy final smash and could basically be used in a similar way to the pledge idea except hydro canon wouldnt be pillars of water

Waiting for this PSA!.
In my opinion, Solam Beam, Hydro Pump and Fire Blast should be the neutral b moves if you are planning to use the pledges as Final Smash. They can have charge or not?, as the neutral b move of squirtle but with longer waiting to make the move.
The pledges are great for Final Smash because in the game they cause different effects depending on what combination of the pledges are used, but in this case, the effects would be distributed according to the pokemon that start the attack.

tormod changing the downB on pokemons doesnt make them freeze when using the trainer kjp made  the pokes had downB and switch on the down taunt  but since using the old psa made the  pac files corrupt he gave up but its possible all that happen with the trainer is he trows the pokeball and does the pokemon switch effect with no switch lol

Yeah, I'm talking about keeping the switch as down B though.  If it's put on a taunt then there's no disadvantage to being able to switch between three characters with different strengths at will.

always tough pokemon trainer disavantage was the switch imo i prefer a full char  than 3 chars without downB even in pokemon games all pokemons have 4 moves atleast plus an ability soo four specials wouldnt be even near of OP imo

the final smash was the fourth move

I'm planning on giving a down B to the individual slots, I'm just saying it will be a modified version of the trainer's PSAs. That way people can use which ever one they prefer, there just won't be one that has both switching and 4 full special moves.

seems fare

if that was the purpose why do pikachu,jiglypuff and lucario all have 4 moves and a FS if they wanted to creat that rule then they wouldnt give them to the rest of the pokes really

makes sense

thats true but they also gave them attacks that dont exist like aura storm is not a real move, thunder jolt is not real either they are like improvised moves etc

thunder jolt does exist lol just not in videogames but in pokemon trading card game :P


that was one of the first pikachu cards and they named pikachu move thunder jolt becuase of that card in the original  ssb

I think this needs to be disregarded. It's Brawl, you need to suspend disbelief. Since three Pledge moves would be combined (where in the game only two is possible), the extra power is justified. Solar Beam and Hydro Pump/Cannon both require recharge, but you don't see that in Brawl, do you?

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Post Merge: June 07, 2012, 03:43:55 PM

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No disadvantage other than exhaustion, right?

I also told you how to balance it - if these moves are fully charged, put them to sleep or stun them at the end of the move.

Having three swappable characters really isn't OP or anything.

not to be a censored or anything and not to go against what your saying but solar beam and hydro pump dont need "recharge" the solar beam does need to be charged but there is no negative effect after and hydro pump just has low pp

I was thinking Hydro Cannon, which is the new Hydro Pump.

Point still stands. Solarbeam needs to recharge and you don't see that in the game, so you can suspend disbelief on Pledge's being stronger.

i dont mind the pledges. its whatever Tormod decides

To make it more interesting, we should come up with different ways the Pledges can work depending on who activates.

The one I posted before I still would like to use.

Anyone have any other combinations of the three moves they can think of?

This is how the pledges work in the game:
Fire+Water - Probability of secondary effects is increased for four turns (A rainbow appeared in the sky on your team's side!)
Fire+Grass - Opponents take 1/18th damage at the end of each turn for four turns (A sea of fire enveloped the foe's team!)
Grass+Water - Opponents team's speed is cut for four turns.

three different fs is OP. i think it would take to much filesize anyway

the only pokemon it think need new moves was blastoise with the up b and a semi change in side b

charizard needs something new maybe he could get project m's up grab

...how is it OP? You can't use them simultaneously. And he already said that's what he's doing anyway.

he didnt say he is having 3 like that i think he sais they would be single for there fs if he makes 3

ur confusing with hyper beam, wich needs recharge, solar beam needs charging, not recharge...

also if its sunny day then solar beam needs no charge :P and for everyone to know competitively fire blast, hydro pump and solarbeam(on sunny day teams) they are used quite often especially on weather teams or mixed attackers movesets wich attack phisically and specialy

to save yourself coding time coulnt you leave the down b where it is and make thee fourth move an a+b attack or would everyone be against that?

well making solarbeam/leaf storm,fire blast and hydro pump an A+B would be nice  but the i would really prefer a downB move since a+b moves are wierd imo

Yes, There is very little space on the trainer's PSA from what I've experienced. And I'm not sure what project M's grab is for charizard, I was thinking maybe having him fly up then swoop back down and slam the foe into the ground. Could be a down grab too.
While where on the subject, the other things I was thinking of changing on Charizard is his Up Air and Dash Attack. I think they could be replaced with something more interesting.
Blastoise's Up tilt and Up air are also meh.
Venusaur's up tilt and forward smash as well seem a bit out of place since he's so large.
If people have suggestions for those lesser moves, I'd like to hear them.

Yes, this is true. I honestly think it would be more interesting to have 3 separate final smashes that aren't all just a blend of all three pokemon's specials. I've begun to add Final smash subactions for the three pokemon so they can do their own thing, and I can code it on their PSA's and not load it all on the trainer's PSA.

I'm actually very surprised at the poll results. It's clear that people want SB, HP, and FB in a regular moveset. And apparently everyone prefers it not only on the individual slots but also on the trianer's pokemon... What happened to the thought that most people just use individual slots? :srs: Maybe I'm just old school... But when I played pokemon as a kid, there wasn't anything to top these moves.

As of right now, my decision stands that if you want to use those SB, HP and FB without a smash ball, you'll have to use individual slots. These will also be different graphics, since you need one of the trainers articles to be summoned in order for the original brawls graphics to be summoned.

For those who want to use the trainer, your pokemon will have a much more theatrical and visually pleasing SB, FB and HP as final smashes. As a FS, you can implement slow motion, more interesting camra angles, and best of all the games actual graphics for these moves.
Solar Beam if you're using Venusar,
Hydro Pump if your're using Blastoise,
Fire Blast if you're using Charizard.

UNLESS people would really rather have Blast Burn, Hydro Cannon, and Leaf Storm as final smashes. I would consider that, they would still be separate final smashes though.

It's a bit disappointing that we'll have to choose between Individuals or Pokemon Trainer, since I'm sure you can't have both versions simultaneously.  I don't see the point of a poll if you're gonna ignore it, but it's your PSA.

Since your whole idea is that it's Pokemon Trainer, not individuals, making each FS individual seems a bit backwards. You'd think the Pledges or Triple Finish would fit your plan perfectly. When I said make each one different depending on who initiated it, I meant keeping all three but having a different "Leader", where the main effect of the attack is different, but they're all there.

either set of final smashes is cool for me
the first set is cool because those are retro ultimate attacks for their types

the other set is cool becuase they are the new move introduced in the updated original games
except leaf storm

i also thought of slude bomb for a possible b attack since venesaur does not have any poisen type attacks in brawl. you could use the same gfx as petey pirana's final smash

You don't have to choose. You get to choose. It actually opens up more options to please more people, not just one group that wants one thing. The point of the poll is to see what people are thinking. 6 people chose one thing, 9 chose another. When it comes down to it, anyone can vote, but I'm the one who codes, and my personal preference lies with the 6. But for the 9's sake, the individual option will be granted.

Brawl has already done the combined approach, with three fully evolved pokemon, I like the idea of giving them each their own finish. The Elemental pledge does sound cool, don't get me wrong, but to make the pledge final smash, and to make it different for each one who initiated it, but still keep 3 elemental graphics in each one will take up a lot of coding space, and I can see the dead end already. The other reason that I keep mentioning  that is getting overlooked is that all three pokemon cannot be summoned at once. The original brawl final smash uses an article of the pokemon trainer that looks like the three pokemon. As I said before, when I edit that article, the edits do not show up in the game, so that's one more barrier I would need to find a way around.
Also, if I was trying to do damage to something by hitting it with fire, it seems like I wouldn't want to add wet leaves to the mix. I know the games do but that's just my opinion lol.

If you're going to make the individuals with down-b's for those who want it, would you still be able to include that version with a Pokemon Trainer who can change via taunt? That way we can still use Pokemon Trainer if we choose (that still has exhaustion/switch), or Individuals if we choose?

That's what I was thinking as well  :-\

I just wanted to pop in and say that these look very good!

At this moment, how many attacks will be different than the original Pokemons (Ivysaur and Squirtle)?

If I'm feeling up to it, it will probably be an updated version of the first release.



Well they are basically all different than the original as far as speed, range and damage go. But as far as changed animations and new moves all together this is what have done and also what I'm planning to finish.

Blastoise-
Side B
Up B
Neutral B
Up Smash
Possibly skull bash for side smash
Up tilt
Up Air
Almost all attacks slowed down and with increased power
Final Smash - Hydro Pump
Individual Slot with new down B and Hydro pump
Ability for Neutral B

Venusaur-
Side B
Neutral B (very similar)
Grabs
Forward Smash
Up tilt
Neutral Air
Other attacks with damage/speed/range changed
Final Smash - Solar Beam
Individual Slot with new down B and Solar Beam
Ability for Side B

Charizard-(I might as well mention him while I'm at it.)
Side B
Dash Attack
Up Air
Up Throw
Almost all attacks made to be faster but with decreased power
Final Smash - Fire Blast
Individual Slot with new down B and Fire Blast
Ability for Neutral B

Those are the attacks that I felt should be replaced to better suit the trio.

oh tormod the project m charizard's up throw is the ash's charizard's classic seismic toss

Here's a short video of what I had in mind for each of the final smashes:

Final Smashe Previews: Venusaur, Blastoise and Charizard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTi4hlIgDOg#)

Oh my gawd.

That is pure win :srs: i love that FS s especially venusaur since ivisaur being on two legs to do solar beam is stupid imo

Tormod your mah Hero!!! that was awesome.  :happy:
i love how the camera zoomed up on venasaur and had that look that he gained the solar energy he needed

They look nice but I would definitely prefer those as B moves with Pledge for a final smash.

That was incredible. I love it ;D

:srs:

Too.... awesome... it hurts.

Those look cool. Though in all honestly, Blastoise still kinda looks like Squirtle. /:

Mother of God  8)

Me n nano are gonna making a Blastoise model, just thought you should know =o

Rewatching it, Hydro Pump needs a new graphic. Needs to be more like two huge blasts from his cannons. It also looked pretty weak in terms of killing power.

Also, Solar Beam should be thicker.

i think the overwhelming blasts of water are a good representation of hydro pump but thats just me

Looks more like splashing around to me, which sort of makes sense for Squirtle, but Blastoise has these monstrous cannons coming out of his shell. It should be a precise shot.

Cool, did Albafika talk to you about what I said to him? About having a custom model with more verts for the cannons and rigged to null bones(There is a NeckN and HeadNb or somthing like that serve little purpose) that would be able to retract them and lower the shell covers. Also, let me know if you're planning on making it for this PSA. Also, if you wanted to use textures or model parts from mine to make yours, just let me know.


I thought about using a different one, but I decided instead just to put 2 of the original graphics in, one at each cannon. Attacking from the left side of the opponent gives the other view (as if you were the player in the pokemon games) attacking from the right side is from the opponents point of view, being attacked. It may seem better to you from the other view.
The power and knockback is in the same range for all three, which is the same knockback and knockback growth as pokemon trainer's original final smash, plus some more damage.

Solar beam I can go thicker  ;) In the video it shows it at 1.5 times the thickness of Ivysaur. Perhaps double the original thickness would be good?


@everyone else, I'm glad to hear that overall the new FS was well received.  :)

Hmmm well we're just gonna rig this blastoise to squirtle, so he'll have all f his proportions....I hope it works for this though =[

Also I'll ask nano to work some rigging magic to make the canons moveable.

Is blastoise's running animation the same as squirtle or is going to be different.

He should surf across the land to run  :srs:

I think he's making Surf Side-B.

Why not release a one-slot version, but make another version specifically for this PSA?

Well, those FS fix one problem indeed.

Also, I didn't want that thing or anything (If possible) related to it to be known yet, Tormod.

I am making surf side B, but I could still do that running idea by using a lot less water for the run, and a slightly different animation.  I can see it now.. Blastoise hydroplaning across the field  :laugh:

like bowser, but with water

this bowser running with water bellow would just be epic xD

(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f161/jeremie_1992/Stoise3.png)
Final product =o

that blastoise is sick!!

I call the recolors. :D

That Blastoise is awesome Starwaffle! ;D If you PM him to me I can be sure to make the PSA fit that model.

On another note, here's the trainer I made last night, based off of my favorite version:

Looks nice. Is there any idea of how much there is left for this project?

making red? that looks nice but we dont actually get to see his face on the game :P

Well I s'pose I depends on how much I end up changing. I've been thinking about releasing it early because I don't get a lot of time to hack. Basically there are 3 or 4 moves for each pokemon that I still want to change, and a few animations for the pokemon trainer.

It's not actually meant to be Red, just the generic pokemon trainer before Gold and Silver ever came out.

Pokemon Trainer used Swagger
*tilts hat slightly and turns it a bit after popping collar*
It's super effective!

well pokemon red/blue and yellow the default pokemon trainer name its red thats why in gold and silver we also fight red :P

^This
The main trainer in Red/Blue/Green/Yellow, FireRed/LeafGreen, and the opponent at the very end of Gold/Silver/Crystal and HeartGold/SoulSilver, is Red.

Right, Red is supposed to be this trainer 3 years later. I just meant I based it off the sprite from my favorite pokemon version, when he was just your generic starter trainer.

te gusta?
(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc485/Nanobuds1220/imports/Untitled-9.png)

Mother of god that Blastoise reminds me why he's my favorite.

Hi! I'm loving your Charizard, Blastoise and Venusaur PSA's project but I think it's pretty unbalanced with the other characters. What I didn't like is that Venusaur isn't as useful as Ivysaur: it is slower, not as powerful in his attacks and to compensate that he has higher range? I don't think that makes up for his lack of power. And also if you make Charizard have weak attacks and be loght, it will be as [censored]ty as Jigglypuff. I think Blastoise should be "fairly powerful", Venusaur should be just "powerful" and Charizard should be "average" or something between that and "powerful" because Charizard is a strong Pokémon, more than venusaur I think but it makes up better with his faster moves.

this is my opinion (not saying anything is a fact)how is it unbalanced with the other characters i didnt see the reason in the post really. Venasaur is gonna have to be slower because it is way heavier than ivysaur so it is no where near as agile as ivysaur can be. As well as its body type not really allowing for that kind of movement.  in comparison to the other two id say charizard would have to be lighter that actually does make it more balanced because they all cant be really heavy or there would be a big advantage there. I think his adjustments are justified imo. This is them fully evolved after all and with the addition of blaze to charizard im sure he will be strong enough.

I think you didn't understand my post at all. I was saying they'd be unbalanced with the other brawl characters. Because, if Venusaur is slower than Ivysaur, I guess it'll have to be stronger or just as strong, not weaker. And Charizard should have weak attacks imo, his special attack is very good.

Looks good Nano ;)


Venusaur doesn't have any attacks that are weaker than Ivysaurs. The individual bullet seeds do a little less damage initially, but they also plant a flower on the foe's head. Interestingly, most people believe Venusaur to be a little overpowered if anything.
Charizard's attacks are weaker. Dragon claw is decently strong, but it has a lot of lag, and easy for a skilled player to evade.

They will all be rebalanced against each other and all brawl characters when I finish PSAing the new moves I've been working on. At that time I'll get a video put together where I'm actually fighting normal-high level computers on regular brawl characters and not just showing a preview on a level 1 like the last video.

Oh, ok. I guess it looks more balanced now. Only, Charizard will suck now xD I prefer Venusaur anyway.

Charizard won't suck as you say, he's going to be changed a little, that's all.

Well, if he is fast but has weak attacks and light weight, it'll be like Jigglypuff.

Um...no.  That comparison is so wrong it's painful. 

Lol what?

Yeah..... Tormod, I think you should not worry about balancing stuff yet. First finish the PSA, and then receive feedback with a first release, or I could help you with balancing before the release. Whichever works. I find following people's "feedback" based on a video is silly.

Comparing Jigglypuff with this PSA's Charizard? It's not any painful. Jigglypuff in fast too (but on air), jigglypuff has weak attacks and Jigglypuff has light weight. Combining those on Charizard will make him weak and easy to kock off.

But, as suggested, I'll shut up till a first release comes because I'm sure there's a way to use that Charizard. I'm not any good so I just use strong characters.

just because he said charizard will be light and possibly have weaker attacks does not mean he will have the same attributes as jigglypuff.

Maybe you're right. But he didn't say weaker, but weak.

It's funny how you say that while not shutting up about it.

No worries guys, I can see how he related Charizard to Jigglypuff. But once you play with it, you'll find out that he really is very different from Jiggly.

Also, I will put a lot of time and thought into the final balancing when I get there. If I have any concerns with it, I may get pawn it off to a few testers. I'll still do the video for last minute opinions when I get there.

Good to hear :)

also i heard you got a nano and star blastoise model,  do the cannons  move? i would like to see how the model looks with the psa and maybe someday nano and star decide to make a custom venusaur too :P

Yep! Cannons will retract and such. :D These PSAs are gonna be awesome ^.^

3 for the price of 1  ;D

Mother of god I cannot wait for these PSAs.

any updates good sir? :3

Well, I was just about to upload, but I have to go run an errand... they should be up later today.

upload!? I mean, upload previews or upload a beta?

I'm pretty sure it's the PSA. :P

If he uploads the PSA, I die. And will they get a down-b? And will the PSA affect them when you choose pokemon trainer or only when you choose them independently?

they will probably still have the pokechange as a down b to asure that people can use them even though they don't have independent pokemon

Oh, what a shame. I hope we get some version with down-b. Or maybe that you can only change when dying, then their abilities would make more sense to me.

He could make an alternate version but it would make more sense and make it easier to keep the down b the same

well im glad i bumped this thread :3

I'm not sure. It would be better to me to have a new down b that is actually useful, because I always use independent Pokémon.

yeah i see what your getting at. But you can use all three if you select pokemon trainer. :D

im sure he is gonna make sure the primary moveset is polished up before he does the Independent version

Yeah. Not everyone has independent pokemon

The addition of an extra Down B for individuals will be a future release when/if I come back to this. I accomplished what I set out to do, so there isn't much motivation to do extra work for right now. They can still be used as individuals or trainer at the same time.

Yeah. This is gonna be epic. Finally some good pokemon and good pokemon updates(Charizard)

Yeah, this is gonna be really awesome. And those models look trully good. You're doing a really nice work. And yes, this is a very good update for Charizard, the only one I'd like to see other than this one is Jigglypuff.

I got them. First download

lol nice, anyways here they are:

Zard
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=27462 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=27462)

Venus
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=27463 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=27463)

Blast
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=27464 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=27464)

let me know if there are any download links.

Blog post sir!  Thou should maketh one ;D

HUZZAH!!  :)

These 2 PSAs have blown me away. Such great animations and PSA skill. But there is a slight problem. On Venusaur and Charizard, there are moves that keep the rumble going until either the player dies or switches Pokemon.

Back with feedback:

Everything is perfect. I have lo complaints about enything other than this: Venusaur's air mobility is too low for my likes, it gets annoying for me. Blastoise's model looks bad in the shell. At least Charizard and Blastoise have problems with vibration: If you use Charizard's smah attacks the wiimote vibrates forever, and when I chose Blastoise idk what I did but the wiimote kept vibrating randomly. Other than that, I have to congratulate you because you have made choosing the Pokémon Trainer a lot more interesting. At least, I won't choose Venusaur alone anymore lol

At my own personal opinion, the side special of Charizard is too powerful.
As well as some of the smash attacks of Blastoise...
But, they all are awesome anyway.

Hmm, I'll look into the rumble issue. I think I have a controller that is triggered by rumble, my wiimote doesn't rumble though.

are these compatible with non-blastoise and non-venusaur sized models?

They aren't, but you only need to re-size the model with the One-Slot sizemod (without a Fitmotionetc.pac) tutorial of Mariodk

for some reason my venasaur doesnt moves during the final smash like he did in the preview vid. the beam comes out of his head for mine

did you put the motion file in the common4 or common or w/e .pac?

I am very pleased with this. Good Job Tormod.

Glad to hear people are liking it! I fixed the non-stop rumbling problem on venusaur and charizard. Blastoise however I did not notice any problems. My guess is that the rumbling glitch on blastoise was caused by the rumbling glitch on one of the other two.

Anyways, it should work the way it's supposed to now ;)

Well, time to test it. :D

Loving it from the video, though.

Oh, and I chose Blastoise in Training mode vs a Bowser with 0% damage and I hit him with a fully charged up smash and I killed it... I can kill whoever with that smash :/

blastoise looks really awkward using squirtles aaa combo hes too big and its slow

My man blatoise is supposed to be slow..his design doesnt exactly make him look like a 100m sprinter does it

The point I believe sonic-pokemon was trying to make is the fact that Blastoise doing Squirtle's AAA looks odd which I kind of agree.  Even slowed down, it's an attack inherently designed for Squirtle's small figure and agility.  The movements themselves require agility, as Squirtle's doing little twists and turns that he wouldn't be able to do as a Blastoise because he's too big.  

I have yet to try these though, and I definitely would like to try them.

Ooops I left the poll locked  :P  


Wow I hope that's not the case! I know it's strong but I wasn't ever able to kill someone in one hit. There are a lot of hitboxes in that move and typically it is near impossible to connect every single one. that's probably what you did on bowser, I didn't change knockback on it and I only increased the power a little over squirtles because I made him start up slower and it's harder to hit since the water is directly above and not all around. Either way though, I'll keep taking in the feedback for changes on version two ;)

Yeah, It's not 100% ideal, but there were other priorities I had over that. Maybe next time I'll change that, along with some other moves on Venusaur too.

Really, Venusaur's slowness it's so annoying. I mean, I know he's supposed to be slow as hell, but it's just so freaking annoying! Specially when I jump...

[censored] all those poll options are awesome.  I was mainly torn between Hector and MJ Sheik.  I voted Hector since he's a manly man but I'd love to see MJ as a PSA with all his wicked and inspiring dance moves.


Then play him more defensive?  By the looks of it he has a LOT of reach and a fair bit of power and that sleep inducing move as well.  He looks like a tank of a character of sorts.  A bit like Bowser but with more range.

Hector. :srs: He deserves it.

Speaking of which.... Black Knight, you must make! We must go on a Fire Emblem PSA Rampage. :srs:

Venusaur has a sleep inducing attack!? *goes check*

Blastoise is now my favorite PSA <3

anyways...  I also had the up smash thing as well... a level 3 CPU KO'd me 10 seconds into the match by using it...

I can't believe I didn't vote for the Green Ranger! D:

For the moment, the one I'm digging the most is probably Blastoise. Venusaur is ok, but I'm having trouble using him. I didn't even know there were strats in Brawl such as defensive!

If you were to do a spartan, I'm sure my man ShadowSnake would be able to import you his model. I would base his moveset off of this if you needed ideas.
Card Sagas Wars - Master Chief VS Samus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDjeO1wCJmo#)

GANON!
that would be soooooo epic, where would you get the model though?

I have a few edits I want to make to each one based on the feedback, I'll do that and update the downloads in the next few days. I most likely won't be changing any animations or any attacks all together for right now, just basic damage/knowckback/speed edits and such. Mostly because I don't want to rush anything and I'm not motivated enough to continue working on them right now. But back to the point, I'll make that up smash weaker.

As for the polls, I'm glad to see that Hector is getting so much attention, I was afraid that he wouldn't have enough fans :) . We'll see who pulls ahead though.

oh and..

...that match between Samus and Master Cheif was.. so.. cool.. I'm liking the idea of doing a spartan, especially if ShadowSnake imported a model for it and with this new brawlbox out, it should make it easier to add multiple weapons.



If someone did a good import of the 3DS Ocarina of Time version, I would use that and I would edit the textures to make it more detailed. Otherwise I'll just vertex Bowser like I did the pokemon.

[ShamelessAttempt]Forget about the poll. Work on Hector. :happy:

I can count the good Fire Emblem hacks with 1 hand. XD [/ShamelessAttempt]

There's a boy who's making only Fire Emblem hacks

Hitmonlee. If you want work on him I will lol.  :kdance:

I REALLY hope you do Puppet Zelda. I would love you to death. Seeing Zelda with a sword sounds pretty cool!

Oh, I guess I was too late for the poll. Whoops.

Voted Spartan, because Halo is my favorite game! will he be over snake?

if someone finds me a nice blueprint of ganon i could make him ^^

I thought about it, but probably not since deadpool is going over snake. If I do him, Ill want to see what the new bb can do before I decide who it's over. My other thought was samus since there is a master chief already over here and I think I may be able to make use of the samus's gun model, but I haven't actually looked at it yet.

Right now it looks like it is basically a tie between hitmonlee, Hector, Flash, Spartan and possibly Ganon. Although with hitmonlee, I am taking into acount that my thread has been lurking with more pokemon fans than usual lately. I may end up choosing two to work on.

if in any case you end up making ganon, you could try to manually port the ganondorf psa over bowser, and have ganon on GBowser, that would be OOooOh so epic!

hitmoleee would go great with KJP's upcoming hitmonchan psa.

i vote for the spartan...i dont even like halo games at all but i know he would be a great character

I still REALLY think you should give them each a Down-B move and make the pokemon change a taunt.  This covers both bases of having Pokemon Trainer with three unique and awesome Pokemon, and each Pokemon being able to played as individuals. The one difference of the individuals would be no exhaustion which isn't a problem.

As it stands, using them as individuals with no down-b makes them considerably less desirable to use, but it would be [censored]ing amazing if you could do it.

Not possible. 

Also, when they are individuals they can't get a final smash, what makes them fairly weaker.

Voted for The Flash. Not a fan of DC, but it would be undeniably cool. I'm picturing an extremely fast moveset that could rack up good amounts of damage. We need some more unique PSA's on here

Maybe a dumb question, but do I have to switch between Pkmn Trnr movesets/animation to keep him from saying Squirtle/Ivysaur with your moveset? Or can I just put one of them (since I downloaded all 3 there is a trainer pac in each one) and the problem is solved for all 3.

I thought I'd ask before I go testing it out. Blastoise was my FIRST favorite pokemon. So I'm really excited to play with him.

anyone will work i think he put it in there for everyone of them in case someone only wanted one of the pokemon and wouldnt have to download another

For anyone who is interested, I've rebalanced the pokemon based on feedback and re-uploaded them. I made the following changes:

Blastoise: Up smash put back to a normal attack power and knockback. I was shocked when I opened up the file and saw how powerful it was, I never meant to leave it there, It must have been from an earlier draft.

Venusaur: Sleep powder and Stun spore can be performed faster now, before there was not a pleasing amount of time to get an attack in before the foe went back to normal. Rapid A vine whip combo attacks at a less rapid rate, it was spamable before (a CPU got me in a corner and I literally couldn't get out)

Charizard: Dragon claw has less knockback growth, I believe it is good where I've set it now.


As for the future projects, I have narrowed it down to Hitmonlee, Hector, or the Flash. I'll be drafting their movesets some time in the next few days, any ideas or suggestions will be considered. Hitmonlee's draft is already in the OP.

Yep, thats correct.

Im just curious, when your playing as the pokemon solo do they have final smashes? or do they still just eat the smashball still?

No FS

its a shame hitmonlee will be on sheik  i dont want to lose my spidey :S

He should port pretty easy, since I don't plan on using any articles. I'm actually checking out BB 0.67 with Hitmonlee right now. I have to say it's pretty sweet.

yeah if you use no floating points or articles the port is easy :P

We have the same voters amount... :>.>:

Anyways, honestly, I feel there are so many Pokemon PSAs around, so I can't say I'm looking forward to it, but I'll still try it, it'll probably be worth it. What I'm really looking forward to is Hector. :happy: Axes on Lords = win.

Because Pokémon are cool and famous, and there are lots to choose from. And they usually need PSAs because they are very different.

While Shiek's tilts are nice. I think they should be replaced with other, different moves and different animations, but with similar properties if you wish to keep them that badly.

Hitmonlee should focus mainly on kicking, yes, but some more punches besides just the Jab combo would be nice too, to keep him fresh. My Hitmonchan idea (which KJP is tackling) is based on having lots of punching moves, but not being made entirely of them. As the moveset incorporates moves like Tackle and Pursuit for the throws.

Hitmonlee has one more vote than Sheik. Either way Tormod said he might work on two this time.

one more vote than hector you mean right? xD

Yeah, and plus I just got done doing three of them.. but I do like Hitmonlee.

I agree. I knew it needed more fist action somwhere, but I just didn't know where. The best place is on tilted moves. I finished updated that moveset since you read it and added 1 to 2 more punches to replace kicks.

A few comments on the Special Move choices:

Hi Jump Kick: Hi Jump Kick seems more like a side special or Dash attack to me because of how it's used in the anime. Not only that. It's often described as a dropkick. Though it is often preceded by a jump, as it's name implies. This works.

Rolling Kick: Never thought I'd see this used as a Special. Based on it's game descriptions, it seems like something similar to either  Tatsumaki Senpukyaku of Street Fighter fame, or a simple, spinning forward kick. It's Japanese name however is Roundhouse kick. The english name on the other hand makes me think of a move where he makes his body spin on a horizontal axis with his legs vertical and performs a sharp, overhead kick. Could be an interesting special.

Blaze Kick: Falcon Kick. Nuff said. Unless you end up doing something different with it.

Double Team: This one kinda made me go "What?" for the explanation. Would this move do anything significant, or -like Hitmonchan's Agility- is it just a mobility option?

Yeah I meant that lol  :D

Hey Tormod, I see you've got interest in doing Hector.

Out of curiosity, would you have interest in doing Ephraim when his model is released from Kakusei?

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Ephraim (http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Ephraim)

He's a spear/lance user, which means he would have a strong focus on mid-long range fighting with limited short game. Distanced jabs, wide range sweeps- I don't know, the concept just seems cool to me.

Voted for hector, because that is my name :P
But yeah, dont know the character. But he seems cool, so cant wait to see how he comes out (if hes done)

(Hitmonlee was named after Brce Lee, not Jet Li lol)

ayway, i voted Flash ebcasue i liek fast character

Those are almost fancy pics, Tormod. :P

That's some good insight. I haven't seen the Hi Jump Kick used in the anime, I was just pictureing it based off how I always have. Anyways, it sounds a lot like how the Down Air will be. The Up B will still be the same, just not called an actual pokemon move.
Rolling Kick as you've described sounds like a Side Smash to me, maybe I'll put that there.
As for the side special, I was picturing  a literal rolling on the ground then kicking, similar to the kind of side special I gave fierce deity link. But if that is not how the pokemon move goes then it's just boring. I'll leave the side special blank for now until a better idea emerges.
I had a feeling it would be hard for people to understand what Double Team will be like, but that's the move I'm most looking forward to doing. The it can be used for evading a foe, disorienting a foe, and even setting yourself up in a nice position to attack a foe. It won't actually move too far, but it won't send you to special fall.  It will be easier to explain once it's done.


I may have interest in Ephraim eventually. I played through FE8  :P


I thought that sounded funny... That makes it less cool... Jet Li is awesome.

Yep ;)

voted hitmonlee since kingjigglypuff is doing hitmonchan and it would be nice to have both hitmons lol

Tormod, I was wondering if you would be interested in collab'ing with me on a small project. I'll fill you in on that thing we use to chat if you're interested.

Vote Hitmonlee!!

No.

Vote who you want.

NO, i cant, so i voted for flash cuz of how speedy he is and stuff

If you were to do Hitmonlee, you could take a look at how Hwoarang attacks in Street Fighter x Tekken, since his entire playstyle revolves around kicking. 


That said though, I still voted for Hector.

tormod please dont let hitmonlee have moves involving his hands. it is not boring for a character to use purely punching or kicking if that is the character fighting style. like little mac having kicking moves wouldn't be right since boxers do not kick if they did that would be cheating. street fighter has characters that use boxing moves and they are anything but boring. I hope velen wanting him to have hand involving moves is not used. hitmonchan is already kind of strange with kicking moves in his moveset. i just dont think the characters fighting style should be changed because it could be boring. it leaves room for a psa person to use kicking moves in more creative ways.

Except for the fact that Hitmonlee is more than capable of using punches.  It can learn Mach Punch, Focus Punch, Dynamic Punch, Bullet Punch, Mega Punch and Brick Break.  Simple moves that involve punches like a jab or a U Tilt would hardly feel out of place or out of character.  But I do agree with the fact that it should mostly be kicking and considering that Hitmonlee can also stretch its legs it could make for some interesting moves.

I love you.

^ This. Plus, thinking up 17 kicking moves (5 A Aerials, 4 Specials, 4 Tilts, 3 Smashes, Jab) can be a pain in the ass.

Anyways, SDo0m, do you think you'll ever do a Hwoarang PSA? And did you lose interest in the BK?

@Tormod: I decided to do her. So make sure to log more often and help me with ideas. :D

I feel a Hwoarang PSA would be so out of place.  :srs:

nothing is out of place in a hacked game...
snake and sonic were already out of place in the vanilla game, so yeah, try not to mention that stuff doesnt fit cuz it doesnt need to...

They honestly were not really out of place due to where they came from. Hwoarang is from a fighting game that has no specials, only chains.

Street Fighter x Tekken says hi.  Tekken characters were adapted in such a way so that they actually had specials as well as chains.  Not to mention they have so many chains that one could easily adapt them with a little creativity.  Any character from any fighting game could easily be adapted to fit Smash imo, because Smash is a fighting game. 

If they can make Phoenix Wright work in UMvC3, making a Tekken character work in a Smash game is a cinch. 


I had no intention in making a Hwoarang PSA.  There's a certain animation I want to make for him as part of a project that I'm doing but that was it.   As for BK...

:V What, were you expecting and answer?

guess hitmonlee  will lose :S well he will be in second atleast

It will be mostly kicks, but a few hand moves here and there shouldn't hurt. I'll probably do a leg move for the down tilt so that's only 2 moves left with hands. Also, like SDoom said, Hitmonlee's legs can stretch, which is why I'm planing on having them extend a little bit when he does his up tilt uppercut, that way it still has decent reach and he's using his legs.



Thanks for the video SDoom, there's lots of good kick references in there.


Sweet! :D Are you keeping it a secret for now?


I'll work on Hector first. But is going to take the most time and work which is why I may work on Hitmonlee on the side.

Forgot about SF X T.  ^-^ Ahh yes, I always wanted to see a Yoshimitsu done. I feel he would fit in better than anyone else.

At least until we have a clearer idea of what we should do. :P

We gotta talk!

Indeed, Yoshimitsu would be boss.  Hmmm....*strokes chin*

Well, he'd have been interesting. He's my favorite Tekken character from all time. <.>

I was really expecting an answer. (http://static2.emoticonize.com/2012/5/9/3bb2aa.gif)

man, Ephraim would be sick

Go Hitmonlee! :'(

I can't wait for the Flash!

Whoa...


I've called dibs on Yoshi >_>;

I thought you were  doing SoCal's Yoshi. o.o He's doing Tekken's Yoshi.

Thats like comparing Green and Red apples.

lol

Hey!. Maybe it was a random freezing, but I have to say that I was playing with Blastoise vs. Ganondorf, then he used his up special to grab me and after some seconds, the game froze, I don't think my game it's the problem, because the opponent was the original Ganondorf...

I now see what you mean, I've never played any Tekken games so I thought they were completely different lol. But I do play Soul Calibur. o:

On another note, I'm really looking forward to Hector :D he's gonna be awesome.

Hm, not sure what happened there. I didn't change any coding/animations for being grabbed at all. If it happens consistently, send me a PM and I'll look into it on my system.

Until today I thought the Yoshimitsu from Soul Calibur was the only one there was. As far as Hector goes, I'm modeling Armads as we speak.  :>.>:

I think in the Tekken mythos Yoshimitsu is like an ancient descendant of the one from Soul Calibur...

On top of that, hes a cyborg or some ish...

In Soul Calibur, thats the original one... except for number 5... thats another one.

He's my favorite character in both series... and I am just waiting on a model before I begin work on him.

hitmonlee is winning? how did that happen? lol

I'm not even familiar with Hector, but I'd love to see an axe-wielding character. Too many swordsmen, gotta mix it up.

To sum it up, Hector is one of the three (imo) Captain Falcons of Fire Emblem: The Blazing sword aka Fire Emblem 7 aka Fire Emblem (It is known just as Fire Emblem in the US because it was the first Fire Emblem game in the US).

I browsed through your thread and couldn't see a request for it, so I am asking myself: Could you please release a 1-slot size mod for Venusaur and Blastoise? I love your model-resize, but would like to keep their original movesets. Also, their changes kinda screw with my other costume slots. Although, fat Oshawott is absolutely hilarious. xP

venusaur needs the psa to look like venusaur, if u look at the vertex in brawlbox u'll notice a lot is done through animations

Nanobuds released a Blastoise that I believe works as one slot. Also, he PM'd me a few days ago saying that he renamed some bones on my Venusaur to make it the correct proportions and one slot. I gave him permission to release it, so keep an eye on his vault.

EDIT: I've finished modeling Armads. The gold on the axe head will be a metalic reflective material in game.

Well, that's a sexy cursed axe right there, Tormod. .-.

The inner Fire Emblem freak inside me wanted to check to make sure it looked EXACTLY like the Armads on the Fire Emblem Box Art.

And it does :D

Nice model dude way to go.

Really excellent news, thanks. Between you and me tho, I'm more fond of your Blastoise. ;D

That axe model is superb! The detail in the axe model is phenominal. Great job!

If you must put him over Marth, can you use the model scale attribute to make him bigger? Hector should be as big as Snake, maybe a little taller.

Amazing job on the Armads. :)

Glad you guys like it, it took me some time to make :D

I can send you a personal single slot copy when I get back in town if you want one.

Yes, he'll definitely have a size mod, and I'm using a specific sword glow that Albafika pointed out so that he'll port to other characters easily without messing up sword glows.

EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, since I am doing a custom model for him now instead of just a vertex, I'll rig him to Ike, using Marth's model as a base.

I'd really love that, awesome! /super excited

Intensely detailed; nice job on the model.

dude i haven't been on here since like january I was working on a hector before i quit wanna see the progress?

So you started a Hector eh? Feel free to share your progress. Although, I am looking forward to finishing him, it wouldn't hurt if you released an alternate model just like Nanobuds and Starwaffle did with Blastoise.

heres a preview This was before vertexing was advanced, and model imports were impossible

Probably better than most model imports out there right now.

That is a very good looking model. Who ever did it should be proud of it.

A very nice model given the conditions it was made in. Veeeeery nice.

The only problematic thing I could see for anyone attempting Hector is the hair. Don't know how that would work out...

what about hitmonlee are you using the vertex or is someone importing the model?

Not a bad vertex at all. Nice job, looks like people will have their options when choosing Hector. Right now I'm working on getting one to match the official art as well as one to resemble the sprite armor since it's pretty different.


With Hitmonlee, I've been using Afyre's vertex to do the animations. However, Pokemon model imports tend to be low poly and low detail, so I'm working on a custom one that will look nicer. Though it's not my top priority since I do have the vertex to work with.

Cool I can't wait to see your Hector :)

Alternate texture/model for The Flash!

what did i just see?

An hippo?

A manatee

Ya loonies, that was a hedgehog.  *facepalm*
You know, Flash's childood hero? :sonic:
 :af:

Back on topic, I can't believe you might do Hector from FE7! You do this and I want to know what time it will be uploaded. So I can have the first download.
It would be epic.

Lol I wonder how fast that thing can move...


Yep, I am for sure doing him, it just might take some time. Actually, my wife and I have our first baby due in about a month so I have a feeling that progress will get sloooow at that point.

It better get slow.  :srs:

O.o
that caught me unguarded...
GO HOME AND BE A FAMILY MAN! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tawnOvY-DcM#)

Wow, congratulations! Yes, I'm sure it will get really slow. Do you need to ask another team/group of people to help?
How's it (Hector's PSA) progressing so far?

Don't worry, the family will come first, just as it always has ;) . If I find that I can no longer find time to hack then I will offer my work to Albafika (since he knows most of what's going on and has already helped some), and let him delegate work as he pleases.
Anyways, I havn't made a ton of progress on Hector, since I've been working on other stuff as well, and I've also been busy with non-brawl related things.
But I'm going to put Hitmonlee on hold for the time being since I don't spend enough time hacking to do 3 projects at once.

Thank you for putting Hitmonlee on hold and not Hector.
Just putting my thanks in here first in case someone complains.  :srs:

I agree, doing 3 projects at a time seems to be extremely stressful.

If you finish the model before everything gets busy and you want some help animating/PSAing it, I can help. I'm no good at animating, but I'm fairly good at PSAing (I can even do specials and I can theoretically add GFX and extra models via hexing). There's a lot of people who like Fire Emblem and especially Hector, so I don't think it'd be that hard to put together a team to make his moveset.
Just so long as I have the model, since I have no experience at model hacking/vertexing.

Good to know you're willing to help ;) If I start to feel overwhelmed I'll make it known. I'm waiting on something from Albafika to finish the model, and I just got max 2011 so that should take care of some barriers as well.

Shamelessly post merging! For any who want a peek at Hector's model... I still have a lot of enhancing to do on the texture, particularly the armor, but I figure that can wait till after this get's rigged up because I'm getting anxious to actually do some PSA and animation work for him.

That looks... Outstanding. o.o Amazing job Charizard Tormod!

that looks epic as hell!!

That's freaking amazing. o_o I can't believe you did that edit so fast! Wait... Actually, now that I think about it, he is very similar to Hector. o.o

He looks epic as hell.

:srs:

So nice it needed to be said twice.

The overall look is fantastic!

But the face looks off to me... I don't know why...


I can't wait for the PSA though!

YESSSS!

...no, that's not big enough.
...
\0
        ^    D
/0

YESSSSSSS! :yay:



EDIT: Hype this project to show support.

I think I know what looked off with the face, it was that the head is kinda short. And his eyes are squinty.

It looked weird, his eyes were tiny proportioned to the rest of the face. And the hair should be a bit higher. The spikiness is good.


Also with the moveset, I think the handaxe should have a chance to critically hit. Dealing good damage while otherwise would be decent. Like 4% normally and 12% when it crit's. (or 5 and 15)

And I think the hitbox should work like this, 5% on the way out, 3% at peak range and 4% when coming back. And if it critically strikes each hitbox will deal 15%, 9%, and 12% respectively. However, it will all be one hitbox, so you cannot be hit by the axe more than once. Also the knockback and direction depends on the hitbox.

One more thing, why not give Hector a counter? It's the common Fire Emblem technique.

If he did have Counter, maybe with 1.3 damage return with high base knockback and decent knockback scaling. But the counter attack will have Hector spin around with Armads before swinging back up and onto his shoulder (if that's going to be his stance.) You could add a lightning effect like Pikachu's Down Smash onto the successive counter.

Fantastic Hector! Simply outstanding!

Can barely wait... Barely :srs:

*looks at model* Hmm... I guess I can agree about the squinty eyes, but I don't think his head's too small. I guess I'd want to see it in Brawl to know for sure.
I think that giving Hector chances to crit is a good idea, but only on a few of his moves (maybe a couple B moves). As for not letting someone get hit more than once... the only way to do that would be for Hector's axe to only hit one person and then not return to him. I'd rather it was able to hit twice, once on the way out and once on the way back. It'd look more like it does in Fire Emblem 7 than if he just threw it at one person.
As for the counter... that's a good idea, actually, but counters don't really seem to suit Hector's style. He just dodges and never takes damage. :)
Regardless, it's still closer than reflecting projectiles. Does anyone like the idea of him causing an earthquake?  :laugh: (screenshake camera, powerful hitbox on ground only... it could work.)

From two perspectives, a Crit is a bad idea:

A crit is not a good idea. At all. That trait fits more a Myrmidon, and not even then it'd be right.

Also, looking at it from another perspective, a Crit? Seriously? Hector's crit is not something on which he exceeds in his game even, his crit is standard, unlike Lyn's, why, then, give Hector a Crit? That's like suggesting to give Link Ganondorf's Dark Power, or Zelda Link's Master Sword. Critical Hit is far from being Hector's thing.

Speak for yourself. My Hector criticalled almost 50% of the time, despite that he only had about a 20% chance.
Although I can also understand giving Hector a critical ability might be a bad idea, I'm just thinking it could work on a couple of specific moves. That way most of his damage output is balanced and fairly consistant, but people have a small chance to do extra damage and knockback on these moves, kind of like meteor smashes. It'd add an interesting mechanic to his gameplay style. Doesn't mean that he has to be able to critical on his side B, but I think criticals in a couple moves would be a good idea.

Please no more counters. They're included in virtually every PSA that gets released these days. >_>

Though I've never played a Fire Emblem game, so I don't know how important counters are to them or if they're important at all, but if it isn't necessary please don't just plop it in there.

I didn't say to all of his abilities... Just the hand axe... Azure_Shadow suggested to have it on more moves...

And to have the axe hit only once is easy to code. It's literally one hitbox. The game works that  unless you end previous hitboxes, then the last one will go on forever affecting who it can but only once. And the damage change depending on throw is a simple change Hitbox damage.

I'm saying for the hand axe to crit because it doesn't have any other effects. It's just a simple throw. And I never specified how often it crits either. It can be 1 out of 15 if you want. It's all up to Tormod if he likes the idea and choose the chance himself.

And Mr. Vile, Counter in fire emblem games is different that how it works in Brawl. In the games, usually, whenever an enemy attempts to attack your allied unit, your unit with then attempt to attack back.

So yeah, it's pretty significant.

And for appearing in other PSA's... Well, I can't do much on that, but for Nintendo to give it to every Fire Emblem character in Smash, it kinda is significant to the character and their series.

Look at the star fox characters, they all have a Blaster and Reflector. They're pretty iconic to the characters.

I'm only suggesting a Counter because it's a Fire Emblem thing.

He looks great, but the thing that's standing out to me is how straight the cape is. Will it flow?

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Post Merge: August 11, 2012, 09:01:13 PM

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also, you should probably bulk him up a little.

@Azure: Hector has only 20% Crit, and about 40% with the Wolf Beil, just because yours does a Crit 505 of the time doesn't makes it fit on a PSA. Critical hits are not his thing, they just look cool when done, and he'll HAVE attacks resembling the critical hit animations, probably, but adding a Critical Hit system for him is a bad idea because, again, that's not his thing.

@Royal: You do realize Hand Axe has 0 Critical Rate? I mean, Hector's left with 10% chance of Critical Hitting.

Again, in general, the idea of Critical Hitting does not fit Hector in any way. ._.

It was just a suggestion for one move. Also, I noticed that his sprites for a hand axe-type weapons have Crit frames, so I assumed it was able to Crit. I've actually never played FE7.


And with the Neutral Special, will it function like Marth's or Ike's Neutral Special? Marth meaning the full charge is the most potent. Or Ike's where the close to full charge is most potent?

Every character is able to crit RB.  It's a universal mechanic of the Fire Emblem games.  It's more down to how often they crit and how critical hits define their class.  For example, Swordmasters and Berserkers have an additional 15% base chance of crtitting, whilst Assassins have a special version of a critical that can OHKO opponents no matter how much damage they'd deal normally (called the Silencer skill).

Weird thing with Hector is that he's one of those characters that has critical attack animations that aren't really that flashy or different.  His regular Lord crit startup more fits a wait or taunt imo, his Great Lord crits are almost the same as his regular attacks.  Only the Armads critical stands out, and even then it does this weirdthing where Hector switches which hand he's holding the axe mid animation.

As far as a counter goes, I'm objective as well.  Not because it's overdone for PSAs (which tbh I don't think it is and people exaggerate their usage) but because of what Hector wields and how he is as a character.  Out of all the FE Lords...ever, Hector has the most rough and rugged fighting style.  Axes aren't really a weapon suitable for defense and counters.  Comparative to his peers Eliwood and Lyn, he's likely to be focused more on HP, Strength and Defense.  Late game he becomes competent at dodging stuff, but less so than Eliwood and Lyn and early game he can't dodge for [censored].  Essentially he's the tank Lord.  As a result it would make more sense for him to be a character that soaks up the hits in Smash.

I see him as a character a little bigger and bulkier than, say, Cpt Falcon and with a few attacks that have heavy armour and super armour frames.  Hector is probably the most heavily armoured Lord in the series and as a result I see him as a character rather similar to P:M Bowser albeit smaller and lighter.

^ This is what I was trying to say. Well, part of it.
I'm not sure how fast or heavy Project M Bowser is, since I've honestly never played with any Project M characters... but having Hector as slow as, say, Ganondorf would feel like an insult to me because I had him max speed a couple times and it'd make him no match for most of the faster characters.
I also realize that Hector as I have had him (in all five of my playthroughs) is probably the exception rather than the rule, since a lot of people have said he doesn't dodge or critical well. But whether or not he criticals often, critical hits for Fire Emblem characters are as central to the series as countering is for them in Smash Bros, and I just think it's a good idea for him to have a critical hit chance. Maybe not 1/5, maybe not 1/10, but it should still be there. It's just a part of the series I don't think should be removed.
Now probably isn't the best time to be arguing about the moveset, though. I think the PSAers and animators will probably get final say on Hector's moves, and we don't even know who they are yet.

Again... Hector's thing isn't Critical Hits. It does not goes with him. That's like giving Cloud Octaslash. :srs:

Hector, for me, ends up always dodging like a champ, and having one of the highest HP/Strenght/Defense, but.... This is vBrawl, not Fire Emblem, had this been Fire Emblem, Ike wouldn't suck as much as he does, and Marth wouldn't be as good as he is.

Critical Hits don't fit Hector, he has no Critical Hits traits at all. Not 1/5, not 1/10.

And I agree with SDo0m for the Counter, as Hector's fighting style is we-know-what. Although, I'd like him to have it for the novelty of every Fire Emblem character having one, but eh, w/e.

And I'm pretty sure Tormod has something planned for him already. :P

PS: Hector isn't a a character that needs a Critical Hit on his PSA, or any odd formula for it in any way, again.

The original one I had started on Marth would have taken much longer to get to this point. The thing I was waiting on from Albafika was Zelgius's model from RD, who serves as a much better base for Hector!

Yes, the eyes look squinty because of the shadow being cast onto his face from the polygon that his eyes (and some skin around his eyes) are drawn onto. No worries though, those eyes are just a place holder. I'm going to use Ike's actual eyes and shape them correctly, so his eyes will move and the polygons will be the actual eyeballs and not just a flat surface above the face with an eye texture.

As far as the counter goes, I had originally taken it out for 2 reasons. The first being that I wanted to make a change instead of just having the same ol' down B. The other being the same as what SDoom said, Hector's fighting style is self taught and rugged, so he would likely allow his armor to absorb the damage and then attack as opposed to an actual counter.

That being said, I couldn't think of anything good to replace the move lol. I still want a defensive move since it's one of Hector's strong points, but it doesn't have to be what's currently written in the moveset.

The handaxe can have a small range of damages it can possibly do, but it wont be an actual critical hit. Near the end of the game almost all the characters are dodging most attacks and getting crits often, but it's not part of Hector's style. I do like the idea though of incorporating crit's just into regular animations. Like his final smash for example, It's a sweet animation and it would be hard for me to want to leave that out. A great example of how this is done in brawl is Ike's up B. That's the critical hit animation for the Hero class, but it still does standard damage.

My current maxed Hector has Strength (30) and Defense (29) maxed out. But speed and skill only topped off at 21 and 20 respectively. And, Hector got all my speedwings and Secret books, and he got Alfa's Drops at the time he was promoted, so speed and skill would be closer to half his strength and defense under normal circumstances. Keeping that in mind, he will inevitably be slower than most characters, and have longer startup lag than most characters. But he'll be big, heavy, and deal significant damage and knockback.


I'll be the PSAer and the Animator. Unless I need help doing something, or unless I am unable to finish due to life changes.

Hmm, okay. I still think it'd add some nice variety compared to most of the PSAs around here, but if everyone seems to think it wouldn't suit him then I won't argue. Just so long as he isn't THAT slow (like Ganondorf).



Oh, I didn't know that. Well, good luck! :)

*comes back to see the discussion*

How about something similar to the Gerudo Prince Ganon's down-B? It's a backhand that has the cape effect. And personally, I always imagined him slapping the Prince (the one who hates Hector, not being specific so as to spoil anything... if I even could...)


I know this has nothing to do with the discussion. But it's actually the Mercenary class's Crit Animation. Heroes throw up their shields and flip into the air with their sword. Mercenaries (who don't have shields, for those who haven't played FE) throw their swords and flip after it (without the turning around before the jumpflip thing, of course)

I've Played Fire Emblem games before. I know of all the crit chance and bonuses for clases and what not.

I was just thinking of adding a little something special to the Hand-axe throw. That's all.

And I was expecting Hector to be one of those characters to takes loads of damage in a stock. I like those characters. It feels so awesome being so tanky in a fight.


Also for the Neutral Special, it's just going to be a chargeable power slash? Are you gonna add some effects to it? And I'd assume that he's going to be flashing blue while charging? Oh, call it Wolf Beil. After his starter axe. (Which is good against armored units.) Which will probably break shields if fully charged.


^ And this.

As for Counter, I understand that it's not fitting for a tanky character. Then make it an offensive attack with short super armor. It should be one of his strong and sustainable attacks.

Thats an interesting idea for a down B. The Hero and Mercenary animation is essentially the same. Their sword is in their shield when they throw it up. Didn't mean to exclude the lower class ;) . Either way, it is a good illustration of the point I was making.


No worries, he will be tanky.

The neutral special will be a vertical slash, but I would call it a pound because his axe will slam into the ground. His flashing effects will be comparable to Marth and Ike's. I was also thinking, that this attack (if any) could have minor electricity graphics, Since Armads is the Thunder axe, and is infused with Magic. I haven't fully decided yet though, because I also want to include a version with him using his Wolf Beil.
As for the when it's most potent, I like the idea of having it most potant when fully charged, and of course with such raw power, it should break shields.

The armor in the down B is something I like too, I prefer it to be a defensive move. I'd like to hear more idea's for his down B before making a final decision though.

I think for the Neutral Special, only the fully charged version should have effects and even then, it's should be a feint electric blast upon slamming the ground.


And for the Down Special, what about a Vulnerary? It'd heal a simple 10% but you have 3 of them to use per life. Just to give Hector some sustainability in battle.

It shouldn't be hard to code. You'd just need a starting variable = 3 then subtract 1 each use and if it equals 0, then you can't do it anymore. You can have a separate animation for not having any more. Then once he dies, the variable would = 3. That's it.


Also, is Hector Left-Handed or Right-Handed?

His young artwork shows left, but his old artwork shows right. His Lord and Great Lord sprites also have different hand stances.

ambidextrous, maybe?

Hmm, the vulnerary idea's a good one, but good players won't even get killed with lighter characters until around 100% damage. Giving Hector the ability to restore 30% damage feels too weak to me, since hopefully he'll be able to hold off until at least 130%. You're talking about just giving him maybe a quarter more health than normal if he can use it three times without getting hit in exchange.
Still, it's a good idea; it'd just need to be tweaked a bit. Too bad there aren't self-usable healing items between Vulnerary and Elixir in FE7...

I also like the idea of his down B having armor and a heavy attack. That way it can function as a counter, but it's really a normal attack and it seems to suit Hector's style to me. I also like the idea of three characters jumping him at once only to have him spin and send them all flying.  :laugh:

As for my own personal ideas, I still think it'd be a fun attack to have him jump into the air, swing Armads down beneath him and create an earthquake. It wouldn't have to be a very large hitbox, but I think it's fitting considering that in FE7 he can just drop the axe and it shakes the ground. This attack kind of emphasizes how ridiculously strong Hector is, without making him cheap.

Vulnerary isn't a good idea at all. I don't think I need to explain why, and even if you do think I need to, I won't lose my time. Boy, what feedback you guys give... :)

Wow Nice its better than mine lol but mine is Very old

Why don't you provide a suggestion for a down special?


Also, It's not like I'm just throwing ideas on a plate, and serving them... I put a great deal of thought into all of my suggestions. And I don't just see moves for one use only, I try and provide many sides of usefulness of the move.

No need to get heated. I've added 6 ideas to the poll. We'll see what the crowd reveals, and then... I will decide whether or not I agree with the results  :>.>:

I still think the earthquake's a good idea. But whatever, I voted for the attack with super armor 'cause the quake's not an option. Having him get increased armor seems like a bad idea, since unless it has a specific number of uses, it'd be spammed all the time and Hector might as well just have higher defense.

I liked the quake idea, the only reason I didn't include it is because it's similar to his neutral B. Also, I will make sure the armor wouldn't be spamable. It would have a significant cooldown time, so he wouldn't be able to use it very often.

That might be overpowerd, since there would be no downfall to missing a counter.

Hector looks awesome. I had always wished they would have made him, Lyn, or Jaffar playable in Brawl...

Anyway, I'm having problems with your evolved pokemon PSA's, mostly with Blastoise. Mainly, he looks like a Blastoise bobble-head. Some parts of the PSA seem to work, neutral-B does damage, he feels heavy, no longer makes Squirtle sounds, etc. But he still hops around like a madman when idle. I could look past this, if his head wasn't so huge lol.
Venusaur seems fine, though the flower seems a bit different than it looks in the pictures. Mainly the leaves beneath the flower are larger than the flower itself. Not really a big deal.
Charizard's up throw seems glitchy. He grabs them, and they just glitch float around his head until he uses Fly or something. I've been able to get AGFan's Mewtwo to work perfectly.
Is it something I'm doing wrong? Has anyone else had these issues?

You need to use the FitMotionEtc.pacs for each one, that is your problem.
If it doesn't work when you put them with all of the other pacs/pcs files, then you are one of the unfortunate people who have to replace a part of Common1-5.pac (not sure which one they are in, because with my setup, I don't do that). Though if you look through those Commonx.pac files, you will find what you need to replace.

Common4.pac (contains Squirtles files) and Common5.pac (contains Charizard and Ivysaur)

Bummer. Yeah, I have the FitMotionEtc files in the same folder with the textures. Works for Mewtwo. My computer's dead(I'm posting via Wii, and I have to use someone else's computer to move files around on my SDHC card), so I probably won't be able to take a look at the Common files for a while.

I tried Nanobuds' and Starwaffles Blastoise model, and it does seem to work better. No bobble-heading, but I did like the darker blue on yours better. Maybe one day they'll release a recolor pack, so I can have a Blastoise in each slot.

I know this would be completely unrelated to the series, but I feel it would fit given Hector's size and armor

What if his down-b was a sort of counter/shield combination, but not in the traditional sense. As the opponent comes in to attack him, he takes a defensive stance. If it's timed properly, he takes no damage - and if it's timed perfectly, the opponent could be dazed (deku seed effect?) allowing Hector to get an attack in (not an automatic attack like counter, but an attack of his choice)

It would be slow and he would be invulnerable during the animation (thus the point of the move), but he'd be completely open to an attack when it's over. As for the dazed affect, that would only happen if the opponent made contact during a specific frame.

if possible, add a *CLANG* sound effect when contact is made


imagine punching heavy armor with your bare fist or whacking it with a sword and feeling the pain of your own hit

if you can't imagine hitting armor, imagine punching a tree.

Wait, do I need to put the FitMotionEtc files from all three psa downloads for the trainer in, or do they all 3 just have the same information in them? Cause I only put the one that came in the Charizard download in.

More on topic, I think it would be cool to see a move like Counter, where the foe strikes Hector, and if timed right, there would be the 'CLANK' sound effect, like in Fire Emblem, when 'NO DAMAGE' would pop up, followed by a counterattack by Hector, maybe preceded by that little shrug, which means he's about to go critical.

Don't take me wrong. I'm clueless as to what to put as a Down B. lol

it's just that a Vulnerary is far from being a good choice for a character that isn't meant to be weak. Any kind of healing is cheap, really. ._.

Each one only heals 10%, which isn't alot. (Which is only a few attacks) And you get 3 of them.

Look at Ness and Lucas' PSI Magnet, it can heal up to an infinite % number.

It'd be cheap if the was no limit or had alot of uses. But it's only 3 usages. Which heals a total of 30%. It's not hard to dish out 30% in Smash. But using these allows him to mitigate some of the damage he has taken to last a bit longer.

.
Like I said, I like the idea, I just don't like how it would work in Brawl. Depending on how long the animation lasts, those things could actually cause Hector to take more damage than he heals. It's not very hard to do a basic combo, so if his opponent reached him before he'd finished healing, then he might end up healing only 2%... or maybe taking damage. So he'd only heal when his opponents were too far away to reach him, which usually means when they're flying off the stage and that wastes kill opportunities.
If his vulnerary had a near-instant use (less than 1 second animation), then I might see this as a possible move.

The thing is that that does not go with Hector. Ike's slow, and he fares well without healing. I'm sure Hector will be better than Ike, as that's impossible to restrict on PSAs, and I still don't see why he'd need that Healing.

It's not that he needs  healing, I'm just trying to provide helpful feedback. If that move gets made, it ought to be done with a quick animation.


You keep talking about things that "don't go with Hector" even though they were in his original game; would you mind explaining to me what you think would go with Hector's moveset? It's not polite to shoot others' ideas down unless you're willing to offer better ones yourself. -_-"

Not really, I can shoot down ideas when I believe they're bad. Just like the Crit thing and Hector. It's not about over shallowing this idea with my own, but understanding how this idea would fit in vBrawl with the other characters. It's pretty neat sounding to say "Add a Crit. Oh! Add a Vulnerary!" ending up making the moveset be flashy, instead of balanced and fitting.

Thank you Royal Blade for posting that information. I get that question all the time and I never provided a sufficient answer.


Nope, you just need one, they are all the same ;) . Also, it would be funny if the "NO DAMAGE" thing actually popped up!

I like this idea. I'll add it to another poll after I see what to eliminate from the current one. I wan't to let this one go farther to see if there will be more decisive results. The good thing is, there are some good ideas for down B.

In other news, I'm almost done with Hector's rig, I'm just fixing it up at the moment. I've also made the eyes out of Ike's polygons, and made some last minute modifications to his model. Soon He'll be in Brawlbox and I'll start the real work.