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So, after making fighters and minor characters and the Blade, I decided I'd attempt something different: making a completely custom stage.

As I'm trying to do it the proper way, I'm starting with just the layout. I tried making a rough recreation in the Brawl stage editor, but I need better feedback. That's why I'm looking for playtesters to help get the dimensions right and ensure that it is fun to play on. I was originally just going to ask a few of my friends, but I realized it would be much better to get a bunch of people here and get a better range of feedback.

I hope this is okay, but I plan to use this thread for developing the stage. I'm not going to start making the actual level geometry until I have the level design finalized, so for now I have a rough (and blocky) model of the stage that I'll use to refine the layout.

Here's a little about the stage first: it's a somewhat large stage with conveyor belts and a spring. The main gimmick to this stage is that it is steadily built up during play, and then drops away to start over. I'm hoping it will be a bit of a crazy stage when it's complete, as I don't like it when the gimmicks of a stage are purely background decorations. But for now, I want to just start with the basics.

As far as feedback goes, I'm just hoping for a good number of people to try out the stage and give me their thoughts. Are the platforms the right height? Are the platforms the right size? Is there enough space? Is the stage fun to play on? Of course, I'll need people to help when it comes to implementing more advanced stage elements (animation, etc). The theme of the stage will be kept secret until the layout has been finalized.

I've probably rambled enough, so here is a download link to the first version of the stage:

I would be very grateful if people could help!

Download:
Weapons Factory Proto V3(Super Smash Bros Brawl stage layout test) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuILn2jCRu0#ws)
Weapons Factory Play-Test Release Version 3
http://www.mediafire.com/?2gfmhoz6pla36a3 (http://www.mediafire.com/?2gfmhoz6pla36a3)

Notes:
-Currently barebones
-Main gimmick has been implemented
-Platforms now move! Movement pattern isn't final, though
-no conveyor belt movement yet
-no spring yet, so a moving platform has been put in its place
-placeholder graphics (but close to give you an idea)
-put over Final Destination

Design History:

I added an image showing the layout, so that it doesn't just look like I'm asking someone to make the stage layout for me.

Also, before anyone asks, my primary concern is making the stage fun to play on, not making it tournament legal.

So...Is it a Mario stage?

I was going to not answer, but the item blocks give it away. Yes, it is. :P

I'm not entirely satisfied with the design right now, so I might create a second layout to test as well. If I do, I'd still like both of them to be tried out, for the sake of feedback. The key elements wouldn't change, just the arrangement of them and the platform shapes.


Oh, and I forgot to mention, but needless to say, the thin platforms are meant to be drop-through, the platforms with arrows are meant to be conveyor belts, the boxes are item blocks, and the yellow backboard is meant to show the ideal bounce height for the spring.

Well, in stage making, there are a few things to consider. For one, if you are hoping to implement a spring somehow, then I'm sorry to say that isn't exactly possible, at the moment. There was a minor breakthrough not too long ago, but it hasn't led to anywhere quite yet. Conveyor belts, on the other hand, are possible, as far as I know. They'd be annoying to animate, though.

Another thing to consider is size. Judging from the picture, the stage will be considerably large, and from what I can tell, a majority of people don't like large stages. Your stage is reminiscent of 75m, which I know a lot of people... well, hate. XD

I think if you maybe remove some of the upper elements and focus on building the stage across one plane instead of two, it might be more cohesive. Not to say you'd need to remove the upper elements altogether, as they could be implemented as background elements or something similar to that to give it an aesthetic appeal.

Ummmm yeah, that's about all I got for now.

Wait, springs aren't possible yet? I figured that with the springs being present in the stage editor and in SSE, it would be a relatively easy thing to do. Hmm... Well, that's disappointing. I guess it could just be temporarily replaced with a platform or something for the sake of playtesting.

I know it's a bit big, and there's a reason for that which I'll explain after I get the initial layout down. One of the things about this layout I'm not too happy with is that it's rather wide.  Another issue is that the starting area (red) is perfectly suited for battle, so there's not much of a reason to leave it. I'm hoping my second layout attempt will address that. It will likely be narrower, but it will still be multi-leveled for the same reason I mentioned.

On a side note, maybe I'm weird, but I really like 75m. :P

Yeah, most things aren't just drap-and-drop, unfortunately. Pretty much everything that characters can interact with in special ways (springs, spikes, breakable things, etc) are stored within the rel files and cannot be easily added or edited.

I think the narrower/taller approach will work out well, I think it was just the wideness that was throwing it off.

And I like 75m as well, design-wise. It's an interesting and clever stage, but... it's so big. And hard to get around. :[

Hmmm. Well, I'll still consider to develop the stage with the elements in mind. I want the stage to only be limited by Brawl's full capability, not by the state of stage hacking at the moment. (Besides, the stage will be modular enough that people could work around it.)

Anyway, I made the second layout. I'm not completely satisfied with it, but it's a lot closer to what I'm aiming for. I'm hoping that testing it will help me fine-tune it. As a note, the item blocks are meant to only be there at random times, like the flowers/onions in the Distant Planet stage.

(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4568/layoutv2.png)
Stage Layout Version #2 (http://www.mediafire.com/?2laftzs47c4kltb) (DAE)

Sorry to bump, but is anyone interested in helping me here? I can't really make any progress without this step, and I would really like to make this stage. Or any stage, really.

After thinking some, I've made a third stage layout to try. This is the first one I'm actually satisfied with, and this may be the basic layout I use.

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4372/layoutv3.png)
Stage Layout Version #3 (DAE) (http://www.mediafire.com/?adnywqbwn9yaob1)

Oooh, I like that one. It seems pretty cohesive, to me at least. I think the only thing that I find... "bothersome," I guess, for lack of a better word, is that all the conveyor thingies are up at the top in one area. But since I can't think of any way to reconcile this, I think this is a great layout to begin with.

You can always move things around if you ever change your mind, of course. :p

Ah, yes, there is actually a purpose for that. Part of the stage's gimmick (which I have yet to reveal) involves a platform temporarily coming down in the area between those conveyor belts. This element has always been planned, but this is the first stage layout that actually took it into account.

Ah, ok, that sounds like it would break it up nicely, good idea.

Guess what. It's time for the first play-test release!

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8109/stagepreviewv1.jpg)
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/?b013g9j6fe8qjz4 (http://www.mediafire.com/?b013g9j6fe8qjz4)


Since nobody here stepped up, I asked my friend DinnerSonic to try and import the stage for me. Several tutorials and experiments later, we now have a working version! Please read the notes below.

-The stage graphics are obviously placeholders, as is the sky. I threw it together from Blade assets I had around.
-We tried setting things like item spawn positions, though for some reason, only Sandbags are spawning.
-Nothing behind basic layout has been implemented. The moving platforms don't yet move, and the conveyor belts don't have any functionality.
-Even though I have a working stage model now, I still need your help! DinnerSonic was kind enough to learn how to edit stages for first time, but I couldn't just ask him to do everything himself. I need help from someone (or some people) to get things like the moving platforms and other stage gimmicks.
-As I mentioned before, the setting will be from a Mario game, but the exact theme will be revealed once work on the stage models begin.


So, please let me know what you think of the stage layout. Play against computers, and let me know how they do. Play with your friends and let me know what they think, too. And please please let me know if you're willing to help out in making this stage a reality!

i've actually started on my own version, which is sorta like a Halberd type version, but also has lasers/cannon balls being fired too, but doesnt affect players.

The stage is not a Blade stage. That was merely the sky I made for it so that it wouldn't have a solid black background. I am looking forward to seeing what you make though.


So, do you think you could play-test the stage?

pretty nice "test stages", loved the placements of the objects on the last version!
so orginial design and you have really though about the red line on the stage!

also, you wanted to add "gimmicks" like springs. Ridley have already burst your turtle but it's impossible right now... for now.

I consider myself pretty good in module hacking and me and PhantonWings are parching it piece by piece
Module File Hacking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mBP9Jka73o#ws)

I added a spring to Target Test lv5 which it has not! (Lv3 has one but not the other 4). it's NOT right perfect add cause all the target tests using the same module file!

but I am pretty sure soon we will be able to add gimmicks to other stages, including hitboxes, springs and water

now that would be awesome. a classic green hill zone with spikes that come out of the ground is in our future. :P

Yeah, I don't expect the spring to actually be implemented anytime soon. That said, with the level of detail involved in a stage, there's a chance that spring hacking could be implemented by the time I finish the stage model. In the meantime, I guess a vertical moving platform could be placed in the area instead.

However, there are still other gimmicks in the stage that can be implemented, such as the moving platforms, and I would be very grateful if someone could implement them. If you do, please let me know, and I can give you all the details on animation frames and whatnot.

The moving platforms are REALLY easy, it's just have bonetree like this

TopN
    TransN
         TheModelAttachedToBoneN

just move around the TransN in a animation file inside the same brres! also attach the collusion to the TransN bone! that will make the collusion move aswell!
sometimes it works with the TopN but TransN is a safe card, at least for me

but if you mean the converios belt gimmick thingy (the model are still but you move along if you stand on it and fall of at the side thingy), I dont know how to do that.

That's very helpful of you, but I think you missed the part of my posts where I don't have to means to do it on my own, and I don't want to impose on my friend more than necessary. I don't want to come off as sounding lazy, but there's only so much I can do on my end.


By the way, does anybody know why only Sandbags seem to spawn on the stage?

what stage are you using? I mean, do you using OnlineTraining as a base with REL port?

or do you using Final Destination?

Why, yes, actually, I believe DinnerSonic used the training stage as the starting point before putting it over Final Destination. Does that have something to do with it? How could he fix it? (Or would you be able to fix it for us?)

yes, the problem is you using training stage module. inside it's module, it will load a sandbag and as soon the sandbag flying outstage, it will be a new sandbag.

there is some ways you can fix it.

first way, if you guys still want it would have online training as a base. there is a code that can change the sandbag into a dollar bill or a sticker. I haven't tried this version because I haven't seen any PAL codes.

second way, you can change inside the module file to change which item who will always get loading like a bob-omb, assist trophy or something else. but I know know how to null it however to make it not generate a item...

third way, start from scratch and do it directly in the final destination file.
I would prefer the third way!

DinnerSonic said he found a way to disable the automatic item generation, and from what he's shown me, he did. But, the problem is that when an item tries to spawn the normal way, the only thing that appears is either a Sandbag or a sticker. Is there a way to fix it that doesn't involve starting over in a new stage?

I actually have a good stage to use as a template:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5869687/STGTEMPLATE.pac

It goes over Final Destination.

DinnerSonic is using the template now. Normal items spawn! However, he's still having trouble with editing the stage in BrawlBox. Every time he tries messing with the lights, he'll get a "unable to open file for write access" error, or the changes he made won't apply, or (worst case) the values will be shuffled around. He had the same exact problem earlier, which is why the lighting on the V1 release is pointing upwards.

Any idea on what's causing this problem? If it helps, he's using BrawlBox v0.67b.

DinnerSonic decided to help me further, so the next release is out! The layout wasn't really changed at all, but the moving platforms now animate! The motion patterns aren't final, but it should give you a good sense of how things will move. Also, the spring has been turned into a moving platform to compensate for the lack of a working gimmick.

So, please try it out! If you tried out v1.0, please get the updated version and let me know what you think of the changes!

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7663/stagepreviewv2.jpg)
Peardian's Mario Stage Play-Test Release Version 1.1
http://www.mediafire.com/?sq2yl4rtgokx60a (http://www.mediafire.com/?sq2yl4rtgokx60a)

Originally, I was hoping to keep the theme of the stage a secret and surprise everyone when I finished it, but it seems nobody cares about a newly created stage unless it looks pretty. So, in the interest of getting this stage properly play-tested, I'm revealing the theme of the stage: Smithy's Weapons Factory from Super Mario RPG.

This release version also reveals the primary gimmick of the stage: it starts out small, but builds up over the course of two minutes. Around the three-minute mark, the stage drops out to start over again. There will be other gimmicks to it, but those will have to wait until stage hacking advances significantly.

Weapons Factory Proto V3(Super Smash Bros Brawl stage layout test) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuILn2jCRu0#ws)
Weapons Factory Play-Test Release Version 3
http://www.mediafire.com/?2gfmhoz6pla36a3 (http://www.mediafire.com/?2gfmhoz6pla36a3)

Special thanks to DinnerSonic for doing all the import work (again) and for recording the above video.


I've said it numerous times before, and I'll say it again. I want this stage to not only be fun from a visual aspect, but fun to play on. But in order for me to do this, I need help from you all, the community, to play-test the stage and give me your feedback. I'm not asking anyone to import a file or animate it for me, as that has already been done. All I'm asking is for you to download the stage, try it, and let me know what you think on the layout, the pacing of the animations, and the general feel of the stage. So please, give the stage a try and let me know what you think.

I like it!

The only thing I can point out is the speed of the background animations. To me, it seems a bit too fast.

Hey, that's a nice stage project you've got going Peardian!
Just tested it out and it was pretty fun to play, even though I do prefer flat stages.
The animations felt right for the first platforms but I do think the second row(?) could appear a little bit faster.

Also, the collision for some platforms are set as ceiling type, which I'd change as it got in the way a lot really.

The pause screen has some issues, it feels glitchy and hard to control. But you probably noticed that already.

As for the last platform, the one before the loop, I got killed both times in its animations. First when it showed up and then when it vanished.

Haven't tried it yet using items and final smash. Forgot to turn those on before testing the stage^^'

So NOW I finally have someone that has tested it!

-I'm hoping some of the gimmicks/background animations will help pad out that delay, but I may end up shortening it if that doesn't work out.
-Having the conveyor belts be solid is intentional for a number of reasons. However, the separation of the top and bottom (thus making it a bit of a ring shape) does seem to be an issue. I'm considering adding a pass-through platform between the big line of belts and the platform it connects to. See, this is why I need playtesters!
-Yeah, DinnerSonic was having difficulty with some of the more advanced camera setting stuff. Also, some of the final smash bone things might not be set right. Right now, though, I'm not too concerned with them, as I can fine-tune those once the stage design is finished.
-Yeah, sorry about the lack of cues there, until we can get some audio/visual cues in there, my advice is to make it to the platform as soon as you see it, and get off it as soon as the new platform arrives.


Thank you very much for play-testing it!

I have tested it and I like how the stages builds itself. The only three things that I think really need work are the background (which at least in my TV it doesn't show properly, is too dark to see the purple transition...), the camera (which messes p a bit when you pause the game) and the platform on the left (I think it is very faster, the CPUs try to jump to one part of the stage from that platform and end in other part).

-At first I feared I had set a floor to ceiling and you were falling through in an embarrassing manner, but it seems you mean that the bottom of something is set to ceiling, which is what we intended. Now, if that makes for good gameplay I'm not sure. I do know some people mod stages so that "ceiling" type areas use walls due to how certain moves work, but I'm newish to stage hacking, so I wasn't sure where or how I should handle that.
-I've tried to put temporary values for some Final Smash bones and the like, Lucario's Final Smash is probably the only one remotely how he should be, I quickly synced the Ice Climbers and Pikmin to that spot for now. I had hoped to investigate those more once the layout was finalized, or if we got some help. Same with the pause settings, I had tried to make pausing put the camera in the same position as the Fixed Camera view which in turn was set up to make up for the current lack of cues, but I'm not sure it worked.
-Meanwhile, as a purely visual aspect far as I can tell, the Pokémon Trainer bone is just set to where it was left and works, even if he stands on air and plummets to his doom with the stage. Hopefully I'll find a guide to help us do something more reasonable with him separate from the moving stage elements.


-So the things that you think need work are two temporary visual elements and a temporary piece of layout, seems like a good sign! I never got to test the background on anything but a computer monitor myself, though I'm sure Peardian will touch up or outright replace it when modeling starts. The camera I'll hopefully look into more as said, and the fast platform is meant to take the place of a spring, an object I hear is getting looked into already. When you can hack springs into new stages, we'll replace it and it should work out better!

I do believe having the big line of belts to be solid a problem. Yet, maybe you guys have already some kind of idea/reason for that that I'm not seeing. And yes I was talking about the bottom of that big line of belts, DinnerSonic. Sorry for not clearing that up^^'
Anyway, switching the ceiling collisions on and off is very easy, so anyone could set it up for their preferences.

Mewtwo2000 has a camera thing tool, IDK if you are using that already, but it could be of help when fine tuning those, well, camera details.

As for the PKMN Trainer, BrawlBox can take care of that. It's all about adjusting some values to match the stage collisions so that the Trainer doesn't float around XD I don't remember where exactly at BrawlBox you could find those values, but I'm sure it wasn't hard to do at all.

Some audio/visual cue for that last platform would be great. That F-Zero stage has something like that. If you could sync a visual alert with the stage animations then that would be awesome!

Now for some advice (and I do not mean to sound rude, sorry if I do) what if you were to put this stage on hold for a while so that you could test all those details (camera, platforms, animation, cues, PKMN Trainer etc.) separately? I mean, this stage here is looking like a pretty ambitious project and maybe you could benefit from fine tuning those details one at a time before implementing them all in one stage, you know?

It might not make a whole lot of sense with the belts being ordinary platforms, but once they're in action, you'll see why they are solid. I'm still going to look into making at least part of that section pass-through, though.


Because of just how much there is to this stage, it will be a long time before it is finished, anyway. By the time all of the background pieces are implemented, we'll have ironed out the quirks with the camera and such. So yeah, don't worry too much about those. It's not the technical implementation of the stage I'm concerned with, but the layout and flow of gameplay.

This stage looks awesome! Do you mind if I place this in my build of Project M? :)

Uh, sure, go ahead. Keep in mind this is a six-year-old prototype of a failed project, so you'll have to accept any bugs or quirks that comes with it.

Thanks. It's just this stage looks really cool after checking out what was there. :)
Hope you keep up the great work on the stages! Maybe sometime, do you mind if you could teach me how to make stages? I am trying to import the models using Blender and I wanna make up some legit looking stages to fight on.

I'm probably not the right person to ask about that. You're better off asking one of the many talented stage makers here.

Still need help peardian? I was just passing by. You can always contact me on discord for stage help if you ever need it.