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Author Topic: Wifi Desync info?  (Read 5345 times)
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DrPanda
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    « on: March 27, 2011, 02:43:34 PM »


    I thought I'd start this thread because I'm never too sure what does and what doesn't cause online desync.

    I'm going to list what people know here, for reference for other hackers.

    What causes Wifi Desync?
    Any Indicates exceptions. Click them for more info.

    Characters:
      • Renamed bones
      • Altered Bone index's
      • Animation edits
      • PSA's

      Stages:
        • Collision changes
        • Altered Death boundary
        • Edited Spawn/Respawn points
        • Models in motion (moving across the screen etc.)
        « Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 01:14:51 PM by DrPanda » Logged

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        « Reply #1 on: March 27, 2011, 02:57:02 PM »


        I thought I'd start this thread because I'm never too sure what does and what doesn't cause online desync.

        I'm going to list what people know here, for reference for other hackers.

        What causes Wifi Desync?
          • Renamed bones (?)
          • Altered Bone index's (?)
          This is a good thread idea, and indeed, those do desync, also animation edits, like Susano, or other one slot mods, not to mention just even the slightest changes to animations can cause a desync.
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          « Reply #2 on: March 27, 2011, 03:08:33 PM »


          I'd assume PSAs would also desynch Wifi. But this is nothing more than a logical assumption.
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          « Reply #3 on: March 27, 2011, 03:15:32 PM »


          I'd assume PSAs would also desynch Wifi. But this is nothing more than a logical assumption.
          Obviously. Tongue

          But yeah, PSAs are 100% guaranteed to desync, even if one move alone is changed, or even something as simple as a taunt.
          « Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 03:24:36 PM by _Data_Drain_ » Logged


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          « Reply #4 on: March 27, 2011, 04:12:21 PM »


          umm...
          animation edits may not necissarily desync wifi :/

          eg
          my import method requires me to keep the animation length the same
          for the bones you'll add to them

          now, even though it has completely different bones from brawl's
          (excluding the ones used by the logic (PSA) and scripts (.rel)),
          it should still be compatible online since all the original bones:
          are supported
          have not been edited or changed
          have the same animation length
          more possible reasons I havn't yet thought of Tongue

          but you can also edit an original animation, and as long as it's the same length,
          it should be compatible and not desync wifi...
          (since animation/char data is only locally affected)

          you may ask me if you think something may/may-not desync wifi... Smiley
          (as long as you just need a 'Yes' or 'No' for something you are unsure of)

          I recently found out (after UL-ing) my FS texture edit for Pika doesn't work online...
          you just stand there and can attack others on your wii (FS doesn't activate),
          while on the opponent's end, you're using your FS

          ^I'm still looking for a fix

          if you need any more on the game vs wifi, or have any Q's on it,
          feel free to ask Smiley
          (I can't garuntee you'll recieve a quick answer, but I'll see what I can do) :|
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          « Reply #5 on: March 27, 2011, 04:30:26 PM »


          maybe you aught to have a character and stage section for this?
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          DrPanda
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          « Reply #6 on: March 27, 2011, 04:33:19 PM »


          ...
          So as long as animation edits are the same length and do not affect the original bone tree, they will be ok to use online? Undecided

          That seems a bit odd to add to the list, considering you are the only one who has done this (as far as I know).

          maybe you aught to have a character and stage section for this?
          Ah, Nice idea Wink
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          « Reply #7 on: March 27, 2011, 05:16:34 PM »


          Hm... With stages, it depends... If the collision data is the same, then there's a good chance it will work, however, for example, some space Battlefield, and a rainy Battlefield, even though the collision data was the same, for some reason it desynced... However on the flip side, that Subspace Battlefield worked just fine, so I have NO idea why sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't...

          No need to say that stages that are completely custom will desync 100% of the time. (Collision data changed, stage hazards removed/added... Etc etc.)
          « Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 05:18:07 PM by _Data_Drain_ » Logged


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          « Reply #8 on: March 27, 2011, 06:33:07 PM »


          pretty much any collision change will desync.  This includes the changing of types of floor materials, such as adding splash effects.  Death boundary changes will desync, character spawn points and respawn points will desync, and moving of models such as smashville's balloon will desync.  There's probably more just in the stgposition models I'm not thinking of.
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          « Reply #9 on: March 27, 2011, 08:33:18 PM »


          ...
          So as long as animation edits are the same length and do not affect the original bone tree, they will be ok to use online? Undecided

          I'm sry...
          I should restate that...

          you can edit the bone tree in some animations
          (all animations with my method)

          but there's a few reasons why it desyncs...
          let me list a few of those:
          animation length not being equal on both wii's
          different attack behaviors (better done through logic editing (PSA))
          any modified animation dealing with the opponent (not entirely sure of this one)

          my method:
          I'm putting Pachi over Pika yes,
          you will be able to use all 4 Pika's (or 3 and 1 pachi Tongue)
          will not desync (hopefully)

          ^I'm making him basically a clone of Pika
          (he'll move exactly like Pika (throws/grabs/strengths/etc... will all be the same))
          so if this works like I'm thinking, it shouldn't desync...

          note:
          I'm not using Pika's rig.
          I'm using the main bones for positioning.
          and I'm using pachi's rig to animate...

          I'm adding his bones to the already existing chr0 files

          so that's the trick behind my method:
          Give the char a seperate instance controlled by seperate animations,
          while using only the neccessary bones to position the char.


          note:
          you will have to move the first bone of the import opposite of the HipN bone
          in order to center your char. (this includes rotation)
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          Quote: Friedslick6
          you have been through a lot of hassle. I've watched every topic you posted on this, and most of them seemed to disintegrate gradually.
          But the coolest part was that you didn't stop working on it despite that.

          Quote: Internet Explorer
          you're doing more with your life right now than probably most other people around you. You're a valuable asset to the Smash community. So yeah, you should be proud.

          quote: Greg
          You do have a gift which I've seen many developers use to their advantage. You can become a great coder, and with all of those ideas I think you can really build something great.

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          « Reply #10 on: March 28, 2011, 07:51:35 AM »


          Ah, Thats a bit simpler for me to understand Tongue

          So am I right in assuming that it is infact not one-slot size mods that cause desync, but rather the character being modded?

          (I'm looking forward to Pachirisu btw Wink)
          « Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 07:52:52 AM by DrPanda » Logged

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          « Reply #11 on: March 28, 2011, 09:56:10 AM »


          Altered bone indexes don't always cause desyncs, my Zero is proof of this. As long as you don't change the indexes of bones that the character uses to move (TransN, XRotN, YRotN, etc.) or attack with, then it's safe.
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          « Reply #12 on: March 28, 2011, 12:28:23 PM »


          PSA's don't necessarily cause desyncs. Editing the sounds in PSA doesn't cause desyncs.
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          « Reply #13 on: March 28, 2011, 12:40:25 PM »


          Ah, Thats a bit simpler for me to understand Tongue

          So am I right in assuming that it is infact not one-slot size mods that cause desync, but rather the character being modded?

          (I'm looking forward to Pachirisu btw Wink)

          not all mods will cause desync as long as they're allowd "compatibility"...
          meaning they will not affect positioning of either char on the opponents wii
          (there's alot to describe in the area)

          btw, thanx Smiley

          Altered bone indexes don't always cause desyncs, my Zero is proof of this. As long as you don't change the indexes of bones that the character uses to move (TransN, XRotN, YRotN, etc.) or attack with, then it's safe.

          those would be the neccessary needed bones I talked about earlier Wink
          as long as you don't mod them, well...
          I don't really need to say anything further Tongue

          PSA's don't necessarily cause desyncs. Editing the sounds in PSA doesn't cause desyncs.

          true, but that's not on the area we're talking about...
          we're talking about editing action and library values in the logic.
          sry to single you out like that Tongue
          « Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 12:41:52 PM by Tcll » Logged


          Quote: Friedslick6
          you have been through a lot of hassle. I've watched every topic you posted on this, and most of them seemed to disintegrate gradually.
          But the coolest part was that you didn't stop working on it despite that.

          Quote: Internet Explorer
          you're doing more with your life right now than probably most other people around you. You're a valuable asset to the Smash community. So yeah, you should be proud.

          quote: Greg
          You do have a gift which I've seen many developers use to their advantage. You can become a great coder, and with all of those ideas I think you can really build something great.

          DrPanda
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          « Reply #14 on: March 28, 2011, 01:11:02 PM »


          I've quoted and 'loosely' edited your info, Tcll. (Simply so I can link it all to one post in the OP... If you want me to change the wording or add to it, just ask Wink)

          Not all mods will cause desync as long as they're allowed "compatibility"...
          meaning they will not affect positioning of either char on the opponents wii

          Animation edits might desync wifi if:
          Animation length is not equal to the length of the original
          Attack behaviors have been altered (better done through logic editing (PSA))
          (?) Modified animations that deal with the opponent (Grabs/Throws etc.)
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