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Author Topic: Board Problems, Suggestions and Updates  (Read 993417 times)
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Miacis
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    « Reply #345 on: July 07, 2011, 11:03:39 AM »


    How recent are you talking?  Because there were plenty of events that occurred a few months ago, many of which have gone unnoticed, and I hope we aren't trying to bury that here.
    If the only problems were the ones you guys already mentionned monthes ago, they haven't gone unnoticed and seem to have been solved.
    If they haven't, then I'm waiting for the "blatant favoritisms" that I was asking for.

    Quote
    Also, when is a joke qualification for ignoring the rules, even with a consenting victim?  Abuse is abuse, I don't think its fair to the forum users when these jokes occur.  It sets a bad example, and its pure unprofessionalism.
    The question was already discussed in the Admin section. Harmless stuff or private jokes that do not have any negative repercussion on the boards/online life of the "victim" won't start getting hunted. We have more important stuff to care about.

    Seriously, if all you guys have to complain about is mods making bets where the loser gets a 10-minutes ban ... Really, do you have so much time to waste ? Why do you even care ?
    Even the aforementionned bots have more impact on the boards than that.

    PS : LordNoah, your very membersgroup could be easily qualified of power abuse, pure unprofessionalism, and utter favoritism, if I may.

    I got quite severely scolded for creating such kinds of ranks and giving them off to random people. Had I been holding grudges, I'd have female doged at Hakumen for it. But I didn't. Nobody did in fact, unless I'm mistaken.
    Because we don't give a damn. It's freakin' harmless.
    « Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 11:17:26 AM by Miacis Kusanagi » Logged

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    « Reply #346 on: July 07, 2011, 11:21:33 AM »


    Seriously, if all you guys have to complain about is mods making bets where the loser gets a 10-minutes ban ... Really, do you have so much time to waste ? Why do you even care ?
    Even the aforementionned bots have more impact on the boards than that.

    PS : LordNoah, your very membersgroup could be easily qualified a power abuse and favoritism, if I may.

    I got quite severely scolded for creating such kinds of ranks and giving them off to random people. Had I been holding grudges, I'd have [censored]ed at Hakumen for it. But I didn't. Nobody did in fact, unless I'm mistaken.
    Because we don't give a damn. It's freakin' harmless.

    I think some people would disagree with that.
    KC:MM is pretty much the face of Brawl hacking now. And SmashBoards, I guess?

    Regardless, a certain amount of professionalism is required.

    I wasn't talking about membership groups either, but now that you bring it up...http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=22262.0
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    « Reply #347 on: July 07, 2011, 11:29:37 AM »


    I don't really see what this has to do with moderation...

    Anyway, something like this is generally up to Jack or pic. I could probably do it, but my connection here is awful; editing and testing would take way longer than it should and wouldn't be worth the frustration.

    If it's not done by Sunday, I can look into it, maybe. I have no problem with the Java version.
    Thanks, and I mentioned it here because it's something that was posted and discussed in this thread, so I assumed it was right to ask about it here... since I don't have a clue where else it could go.


    One last thing : I'd be quite more concerned about these "favoritism" claims if the main 5-6 complainers weren't always the same. Some of them being regular participants in the anti-Oizen crusades™ .

    So let's make things a little bit more simple. Mr. Wright, I hope you have some very solid evidences to support your claim.
    Give us some BLATANT proofs of favoritism. Something that cannot be left to interpretation and that cannot be considered mere laziness/generosity/severity (or a joke with a consenting victim >.>). Because stuff like that is always up to the mod's discretion anyway. Show us something that is nothing but pure unprofessionalism, and not just something you disagree with.
    Oh, and preferably something pretty recent too. Because the past is history, the future is a mystery and Today is a gift.  Cheesy
    Wrong, I'm not Wright, I'm Godot. :K

    Anyways... so practically you're telling me that I have to "start a witch hunt" and screencap things I see in the forums from now on to make my claims valid, because past actions from let's say... 2-3 weeks ago and under won't count...

    I'm too lazy to do that, but whatever, seems like I'll have to start doing it since apparently I'm not able to "report to moderator" anymore...
    I wonder if it's a glitch.


    Also, I have to be clear about this once again: I don't have a personal thing against Oizen.
    This doesn't have anything to do with him, and my post wasn't directed towards him.
    I'm not in an "anti-Oizen crusade".
    I mentioned my claim in a more general way, if people who have something against him agree with my post... well, that's not my problem since I was merely saying what I think.
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    « Reply #348 on: July 07, 2011, 11:51:30 AM »


    I think some people would disagree with that.
    I wasn't talking about membership groups either, but now that you bring it up...http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=22262.0

    I know they would. An admin making groups about his maid and slaves is like totally professionnal.
    Nice quote out of context there, btw. Vyse would be happeh.
    And yeah, thanks for pointing out an excellent exemple of harmless joke. On April Fools Day nonetheless.
    Dang, I hate that day, all those dang admins on all those dang websites doing harmless jokes and power-abusing like crazy. It makes me so mad. It's so unprofessionnal. :o)

    Anyways... so practically you're telling me that I have to "start a witch hunt" and screencap things I see in the forums from now on to make my claims valid, because past actions from let's say... 2-3 weeks ago and under won't count...

    I'll content myself with stuff from 2-3 weeks ago if you don't have anything else. Sounds "recent" to me.
    Send out the blatant favoritism examples so we can start smiting people. >.>

    Quote
    I'm too lazy to do that, but whatever, seems like I'll have to start doing it since apparently I'm not able to "report to moderator" anymore...
    I wonder if it's a glitch.

    On the Stages board and its sub-board, the Report function doesn't seem to be working for unknown reasons. I realize just now we never announced that officially. Our bad.
    (We're working on it. Tongue) (We = picano)


    Otherwise, you can ask your admin "Master" and he'll confirm to you that you have your reporting rights everywhere else on the boards.
    « Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 11:55:30 AM by Miacis Kusanagi » Logged

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    « Reply #349 on: July 07, 2011, 04:24:57 PM »


    I know they would. An admin making groups about his maid and slaves is like totally professionnal.
    Nice quote out of context there, btw. Vyse would be happeh.
    And yeah, thanks for pointing out an excellent exemple of harmless joke. On April Fools Day nonetheless.
    Dang, I hate that day, all those dang admins on all those dang websites doing harmless jokes and power-abusing like crazy. It makes me so mad. It's so unprofessionnal. :o)

    Wow, please don't pretend that wasn't a big deal.  Iirc, you almost lost your admin powers over that.

    Fair enough, I won't bring up past occurrences, because they apparently never happened.

    But I'm realizing now that many of the current bad moderation comes from simply bad judgement and vague rules.  Here are some examples:

    http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=26556.msg543650#msg543650

    Yes and No, I suppose... It depends on the context really.

    For example, Directly calling someone "a stupid fcuk" is definitely frowned upon,
    but if it was used to illustrate something good like calling something "Fcukin sweet!" it is easily overlooked as a profanity.
    Bypassing the swear filter. There were better examples that would be acceptable y'know.

    As an example, the first thing that comes to my mind is the bypass of the word filter.
    I tend to write "f*ck", "b*tch" and "sh*t", not in an offensive way, but as an expression.
    Still, I don't even know if that's considered as bypassing and if I should receive a warning for it, because the rules don't make clear enough what's bypassing and what isn't.


    (please note that I'm not arguing with the swear filter bit here, I'm pointing out both were giving an example and only one was warned).

    There are plenty more, I'm sure you see them.  I now see that it isn't favoritism or power abuse, but simply stupid decisions and poorly written vague rules.  I'm all for someone writing the rules over, but I'd prefer it not be just one person >.>

    Its also stuff like, when I PM you about the irc and you ignore me, or when you delete my posts because they may have made you look bad.  I guess that stuff annoys me a bit.
    « Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 04:25:55 PM by LordNOaH » Logged


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    « Reply #350 on: July 07, 2011, 05:28:23 PM »


    Guys is this against rules?
    If u don't see well what he said here:

    « Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 05:34:29 PM by Infernape99 » Logged

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    « Reply #351 on: July 07, 2011, 05:40:15 PM »


    Guys is this against rules?
    If u don't see well what he said here:



    It's not wrong...
    He was saying it like an expression, not to destroy it.
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    « Reply #352 on: July 08, 2011, 03:37:31 AM »


    Wow, please don't pretend that wasn't a big deal.  Iirc, you almost lost your admin powers over that.

    That's the second time I read that. And for the second time, there's absolutely nothing true in that.
    You can ask any other admin : I temporarily left because of IRL issues, getting tired of the job, etc...
    I could even find you the post whre I mentionned all that, had Oizen's clumsiness not completely broken the topic. I guess I could give you the MSN discussion I had with picano (or was it stickman ? Can't remember) right before giving up.

    Or just ask your favorite leaker if there's any post in the admin section showing that I "almost lost my admin powers" because of the April Fools.

    Quote
    But I'm realizing now that many of the current bad moderation comes from simply bad judgement and vague rules.  Here are some examples:

    http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=26556.msg543650#msg543650

    (please note that I'm not arguing with the swear filter bit here, I'm pointing out both were giving an example and only one was warned).

    There are plenty more, I'm sure you see them.  I now see that it isn't favoritism or power abuse, but simply stupid decisions and poorly written vague rules.  I'm all for someone writing the rules over, but I'd prefer it not be just one person >.>

    One of the mods was lazy while the other was too severe.
    I said we'd be taking care of clarifying the rules soon. I've got a pretty busy week, but maybe someone could relaunch it instead, and it would be great.

    Quote
    Its also stuff like, when I PM you about the irc and you ignore me,

    Ah yes, when you asked me "did you talk to picano about the Mibbit chat ?" Well, I've got like 10 people always asking me to contact mods, investigate on stuff, ask vertex tips, etc... Sometimes I tend to forget about some of them.
    So how about you just contact picano yourself ? It's not like the empty IRC is such a pressing matter, anyway.
    I replied to pretty much all your other PMs, so if you're mad for one I've forgotten/didn't have time to do, then you should really correct your priorities.

    Quote
    or when you delete my posts because they may have made you look bad.  I guess that stuff annoys me a bit.

    I am not even sure about what you're talking about there. I know for a fact that deleting your post like that would get me Vyse, a good part of the board, and half of the moderation team on my back.
    The rare posts to ever get deleted on this board are offensive material, and most of the time, off-topic cleaning. Something that Vyse is usually doing.
    « Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 03:43:44 AM by Miacis Kusanagi » Logged

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    « Reply #353 on: July 09, 2011, 07:29:36 PM »


    Ok. in the interest of pointing out problems (Something that moderation is very uncomfortable with) I'm going to ignore this forum's definition of "recent", I'm going to list all of the power abuse and bad decisions I've seen on the parts of the admins/mods since the last "anti-Oizen crusade". I'm tired of hearing about past occurrences no longer being relevant. That might be true for somethings, but It doesn't apply to everything. If I murdered someone in the past, and decide now that I'm no longer going to be a murderer, that doesn't mean that past murder no longer matters, or that that murder should be forgiven and forgotten. The same thing applies here, this forum has a history of power abuse with said power abuse going unpunished. As well as the deletion of posts that make the admins/mods of this place look bad, as LordNOaH said.

    Let's start with this thread. Someone suggested that instead of locking every goodbye topic that gets made that a goodbye section be added. Harmless enough, but of course a few mods used the thread as an excuse to take shots at others.

    http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=25786.0 (Dead Link)
    A bot started an introduction topic, and a few people posted there. Each and everyone receives a warning. Here are my problems with this:

    First, just because you post in a topic started by a bot doesn't mean you're contributing to spam. Contributing to spam would be more along the lines of responding to someone who's spamming a thread with spam.

    Also, warning everyone who posted there implies that that person doesn't think that someone could have posted there, genuinely not knowing/thinking It was spam. In other words, closed mindedness.

    Hakumen thinks he's doing his job, but he's out of line here.

    http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=17547.msg506919#msg506919
    Now I know the "No multi-posting" rule is pretty standard stuff, but I've been to a few forums where people aren't punished for that as long as the multiple posts are new things being said instead of adding to what was already said. And I agree with that, I think that If you're just going to add to what you've already said you should edit your post. But If you're saying something new altogether, you should be allowed to make a new post. If you say something new, but in a post edit, most people probably won't know/see It because they only receive email notification of new replies, not edited posts. And nobody watching the topic would probably have any reason to check the topic unless they do receive an email telling them about a new reply. That's why I think people shouldn't be punished for multi-posting. But even putting that aside, ds22 behaved rudely towards TCLL in this situation.

    The StarWaffle Situation.
    Now I have mixed feelings about this because I really hate spam. Spam might not hurt anyone, but It's incredibly stupid which is why I hate It. Starwaffle putting too many o's in the word "No" however is far less stupid than most spam I've seen. I'm not saying what he did was right, but I don't think he should have gotten a warning the first time he did It. Now to be fair, he didn't need to blow the situation out of proportion like he did, but I find It insulting for Oizen to say this to him:
    Quote
    sorry to hear that you didn't have the immunity to the rules you thought you did
    Because admins/mods do have immunity to the rules. He might as well have just said "You should have become an admin If you wanted immunity to the rules".

    http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=27180.msg556941#msg556941
    LordNOaH has already talked about this well enough so I'll just quote him:
    I don't have any problems with harsher punishment for bypassing the swear filter, because now its completely unnecessary, but seriously.  Panda didn't deserve a warning for answering a question.  Especially one that you should have answered before this happened. 
    Also, why is "better examples" even mentioned?  He probably would have got warned either way, which is ridiculous.


    The last and most recent thing I'd like to mention is this: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=20181
    That link will take you to a blank Brawlvault submission that has been deleted. It wasn't deleted because It was a blank submission, It was deleted because the hack creator was in a chat with some hackers and as a joke, they all decided he should upload a really [censored]ty poorly done hack called "Oizen is a bad mod". It was a legitimate 2D stage that said "Oizen is a bad moderator" scribbled in the background. The description said "Download if you agree" and It had 35 downloads before It was removed for no good reason.

    Bottom line: The admins/mods of this place haven't learned anything from the last "anti-Oizen crusade", and the fact that they're saying we should forget about It simply because It happened in the past just shows that they don't think, or don't want to admit, that they're wrong. That they don't want to accept responsibility for their actions. And that they want to continue to get away with this abuse of power.
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    « Reply #354 on: July 09, 2011, 07:42:48 PM »


    Well, I'm not going to let this get ignored.

    http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=27688.msg568287#msg568287
    The blog did not contain "obscene material" (wow, hadn't realized stick drawings were as bad as nippleless cat women and other quite obviously nsfw pictures that pop up so often on this forum, but we're going to ignore this blatantly undeniable fact as it shouldn't be necessary) at the time I posted the link.

    It was suggested to me that I should have removed the link when the "obscene material" was posted.  Well, I don't sit at home refreshing my browser all day, terribly sorry about that.  Besides, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't fall under MY job, now would it?

    And even if none of that mattered, it could have been handled like regular staff members on many other forums would have done and simply removed the link or deleted the topic (while I think this one was removed for more reasons than "obscene material," but with the later blog entries, that's completely understandable).  You guys really do infractions wrong.  That's another issue though.

    Moving on.  


    Okay, anyone to bring up Kitty Leaks or its comics here, gets a warning.
    Edit by Miacis : Who is the blithering idiot who allowed a post with size 45 font ? Fixed.

    And noah, when you run to the moderation topic to cry power abuse, these cause discomfort and stress among our members, and stopping discussion of it is for the best.
    kthx


    (well here I am in the moderation topic, I'd really love to stop talking about it, as soon as you stop doing it.  And really? Discomfort and stress?  You try getting muted or warned for no reason, like you just did to 5+ people.  Top tier hypocrite, you are)
    While I'd love to be able to say yes to that, it quite seriously isn't me.  I have no artistic abilities and prefer a more intelligent cynical and sarcastic sense of humor.

    If it was me though, what would happen?
    I did say to stop all discussion of it, right above your post.


    1.  How [censored]ing convenient of you to stop us mid-conversation.  There was nothing wrong with the discussion that we were having, I wasn't even the one to have brought it up in the first place, and there was no reason to stop it.  
    2.  He ninja'd me with that post.
    3.  So I can't even defend these bull[censored] accusations of me being behind kitty-leaks without getting infracted now?  That's also terribly convenient.

    Anyhow, the posting continued about kitty-leaks, and I remained the only one infracted.  I tried to make a post about it, but it wasn't approved.  I then received a PM:

    I said everyone would be warned, I meant it.

    you need more faith.

    Well, aparently you didn't mean it, and my faith was just fine, because I saw another time it was brought up, again without a warning.  I posted:
    by quoting "it"again, "it"again was brought up. Warn plz
    and by your logic, quoting the post thats quoting you talking about it is also an offense.

    Sorry buddy.

    This time Oizen approved the post just so he could mute me.  Then he warned the person I had addressed.

    Man, I'd love to go around telling everyone to stop what they were talking about or I'd mute them.

    Later in the day, I saw other instances of where it was brought up on the next few pages.  I showed Oizen and he warned them too.

    Wow.  Please unwarn all of those people.

    Perhaps the worst part of this is you all [censored]ing ignored it.  I PM'ed three of you.  I KNOW you had all seen it before I did, and I know more staff that I didn't message saw it as well.  Only one of you said he'd look into it, and I never heard back.  And don't say that you were just about to- or you weren't on, because you all were, and you all saw what happened.  I'm really sorry I've caused all of you to dislike me for pointing out things that are broken on this forum.  Including this.  Its sad.
    « Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 07:48:13 PM by Miacis Kusanagi » Logged


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    « Reply #355 on: July 09, 2011, 08:14:53 PM »



    Remember that little report to moderator button?

    It works in forum games, unlike what you think I don't spent all my time in the family thread, I've been out all of today, and don't ususally read any pages I miss.

    So what you're saying is you want me to have an all seeing eye for these things?
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    « Reply #356 on: July 09, 2011, 08:16:49 PM »



    Remember that little report to moderator button?

    It works in forum games, unlike what you think I don't spent all my time in the family thread, I've been out all of today, and don't ususally read any pages I miss.

    So what you're saying is you want me to have an all seeing eye for these things?
    Try re-reading buddy, I don't think you quite got the message.
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    « Reply #357 on: July 09, 2011, 08:31:12 PM »


    Well first of all, thanks PAVGN for taking the time to gather all of this.

    For starters, I'd like to clear a misconception : Mods are normally sanctionned like any kind of user for breaking any major forum rules. But since we don't really have all that many mods doing useless double-posts, asking for ROMs, etc I guess it's not all that visible. I admit there's been some rare slip-ups in the pasts in the Trolling/Flaming department where we got kinda laxist. Sanctionning mods is simply not an habit, (even though generally they get at least a firm scolding). I dunno, I guess it's kinda like a lot of boards ? Do you guys often see banned mods elsewhere ? I don't.  Undecided
    Bad moderation tactics and bad handling of things generally lead to a more or less harsh scolding. As I'll illustrate with a few of your examples.

    Quote
    Let's start with this thread. Someone suggested that instead of locking every goodbye topic that gets made that a goodbye section be added. Harmless enough, but of course a few mods used the thread as an excuse to take shots at others.

    I saw that, and made a pretty pissed off topic in the admin section about it. The main answer I got from the admins who took a shot at the users didn't sound very repentant though, although Hakumen at least apologized for his bad mood on that day. (I guess I can transmit these apologies to the users ? If not, well, my bad, that was an unintentionnal "leak".)

    Quote
    http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=25786.0 (Dead Link)
    A bot started an introduction topic, and a few people posted there. Each and everyone receives a warning.

    I just learned about that ... well, that's a pretty stupid reason to sanction people indeed.
    We "recently" had a discussion about using simple cleaning insted of sanctions for stuff like that (here, that would be deleting the thread). Not sure if it happenned before or after we discussed it.

    Quote
    http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=17547.msg506919#msg506919
    That's why I think people shouldn't be punished for multi-posting. But even putting that aside, ds22 behaved rudely towards TCLL in this situation.

    About that multi-post thing, we kinda discussed the matter already in the admin section in a separate topic, and we're staying on the same ground as before about that, apparently.
    I guess ds22 was a bit rude in the formulation there, but TCLL has illustrated himself for doing quadruple posts to add new things, but like ... 10-20 minutes after the first one ! So I guess alot of saints of the boards would have started sounding a bit more "injunctive" in his stead. >.>
    I'll also repeat what I already told him by PM (and that he ignored later on ...) :
    If you really need to add something to your post and want EVERYONE to be notified about it, there's the simple trick or copying the first info, deleting thepost, and posting a new post with both the first and second info. Takes a few seconds and is quite better for the lisibility.

    But I guess if you guys like, REALLY insist, we could re-discuss the situation and maybe opt for a compromise, like : ONLY ONE double post and only if there's new info inside. (So that we don't get, like, 15 posts of the same person in a row.)

    Also, I think personnal threads (where you expose your creations) are exempted of the multi-post rule for adding updates.Thatt should probably cover up a good 90% of the needs to double-post.


    Quote

    I personnally exposed my opinion on the matter and stated that the warning for a "spammy" word was a bit harsh, since a simple edit would have sufficed.
    But SW blew it out of proportion and started using report abuses too, so well ...

    Quote
    http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=27180.msg556941#msg556941
    LordNOaH has already talked about this well enough so I'll just quote him:

    I kinda already replied to that one ... We'll need to rediscuss this part of the rules.

    Quote
    The last and most recent thing I'd like to mention is this: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=20181
    That link will take you to a blank Brawlvault submission that has been deleted.

    It was deleted that way simply because it was flaming a board user. The Vault is not made for that.

    Sorry if we didn't put it into the rules, I guess it seemed so obvious to anyone ...
    We'll probably add a painfully indigest wall of text to precise more obvious stuff. Like :
    You can't upload viruses in BV.
    You can't upload racial slurs to BV.
    You can't put submissions in the Vault that let you earn money from it.
    You can't upload the exact same hack 77 times in a row.
    You can't upload a hack whose only goal is to flame a board user.
     Roll Eyes

    Bottom line: You guys don't necessarily know everything that is discussed in the admin threads. We discuss alot of stuff. And there's alot that are planned to be discussed next.
    If you believe something in particular should be discussed, then you should just use this thread to ask us to start a discussion about it. I mean, it's kinda what this topic is for. It's not the "Everyone Blame Oizen thread". >.>

    Sometimes, it happens that severe/laxist/illogical moderation slips under our nose. If you find a sanction to be uncalled for, you can always report it in this thread (or even "re-report" the post that was sanctionned. We'll understand what you mean.)

    But, y'know, it would be nice to do it, like, WHEN THE PROBLEM HAPPENS. Or in a reasonable delay after that. Like 1 week after.
    That way the team can discuss it and see what need to be done.

    Dumping a load of problems on us, all at the same time, is just asking for stufff to get forgotten. We just can't do everything at once. x_x
    « Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 08:41:58 PM by Miacis Kusanagi » Logged

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    « Reply #358 on: July 09, 2011, 08:33:24 PM »


    Because admins/mods do have immunity to the rules. He might as well have just said "You should have become an admin If you wanted immunity to the rules".


    I've been warned before, so has Oizen and stickman. We're not immune to the rules.

    The last and most recent thing I'd like to mention is this: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=20181
    That link will take you to a blank Brawlvault submission that has been deleted. It wasn't deleted because It was a blank submission, It was deleted because the hack creator was in a chat with some hackers and as a joke, they all decided he should upload a really [censored]ty poorly done hack called "Oizen is a bad mod". It was a legitimate 2D stage that said "Oizen is a bad moderator" scribbled in the background. The description said "Download if you agree" and It had 35 downloads before It was removed for no good reason.


    So flaming someone in the form of a stage is okay?

    Perhaps the worst part of this is you all SAKURAI!!!!!!!!ing ignored it.  I PM'ed three of you.  I KNOW you had all seen it before I did, and I know more staff that I didn't message saw it as well.  Only one of you said he'd look into it, and I never heard back.  And don't say that you were just about to- or you weren't on, because you all were, and you all saw what happened.


    dRage and I both replied to your PMs.

    EDIT: ninja'd by Miacis, but still.
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    « Reply #359 on: July 09, 2011, 08:41:04 PM »


    So, am I reading this wrong, or are you against almost everything that was brought up, and are agreeing that this was out of line, and that needs changing?

    I am SO confused here.

    Also, this: http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=2555.msg472540#msg472540

    So many mixed messages here.  At least we know Miacis agrees though Azn


    dRage and I both replied to your PMs.

    EDIT: ninja'd by Miacis, but still.

    I didn't say "reply", I said "look in to"
    which I took for "possibly change a blatantly wrong action"
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