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Author Topic: Board Problems, Suggestions and Updates  (Read 993444 times)
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    « Reply #465 on: July 28, 2011, 09:44:10 PM »


    And this is why I never dove into the moderation of the off-topic boards. The first time I ever posted in the Family thread, I saw fighting and arguing and spamming, and that was just how it worked. It wasn't for me, so I left it at that. I did notice that a large amount of the warnings issued did come from that thread, but the thing to remember is that moderation is up to the admin/mod's discretion and the warning level accompanies the judgement. If I recall correctly, the warnings issued during the Kitty-Leaks incident were revoked. And as for the time that goes by, I did notice that sometimes a warning did go a little longer than 2 weeks, but that was a system bug, not an admin hate crime.

    As for locking threads and deleting content, we are entitled to do what it takes to protect other users from malicious content. Usually, locking a thread is a last resort, but in extreme situations where nothing is getting accomplished and we need more time to think about answers and not rile the mob any more than it is already, then yes, a lock will happen (like your example of me up there).  I know of another time where users were deleting posts in the family thread to get on the 5000th page or something like that. The thread was locked to keep people from doing anything more stupid than what was going on. But I cannot stress enough that these situations are all in the discretion of the moderator or admin who sees it. We all have different styles and may get offended more easily than others, but we all have the same guidelines, which are the rules that you can read in the link in the header bar.

    As for self-censoring, just don't do it. It's that easy. The forum, from what I understand, has an option to either let you see the foul word or censor it. I'm pretty sure the staff was working on a better system of censorship, but I don't have all the details about it.

    For warning timing, I do have to agree with you, cx_asuka. I know it has been discussed to the mods in the past, but clearly this was just a slip up. The general rule of thumb is to give a warning, then let the user calm down first. Obviously, a person is going to be angry about a warning, so adding a warning on top of that does not make sense nor is it fair to do in such a short time period. I know that even I have slipped up like that, but I corrected the situation by lowering the moderation warning, and issuing an apology (which looking back, I've probably apologized for too much, but hey, nobody wants to tear me limb from limb... yet).

    I know I didn't quite touch everything you addressed, but I hope this can help you and the staff a little bit.






    inb4 staff, rather than try hopelessly to defend yourselves with rehashed and overall bad excuses that we've seen before, or try to disregard it because "He's from VIP chat" or some other detrimental statement, it'd probably be a good idea to take these examples into consideration when rewriting the rules.
    Do you HAVE to trash the mods every chance you get? A simple, "I agree with that guy" or "he brings up some good points" could suffice. You don't give the moderation team the respect or credit they deserve. They bust their asses to make sure that the forum stays a likable place and all you do is try to show how evil they are, and what monsters they are, and how things should be run differently. What ever happened to "give respect, get respect"? If you don't like the way things are run, nobody is forcing you to stay. I've seen too much of what they do to let you keep getting cheap shots at them all the time. We all make mistakes. It happens. A lot of mistakes were made in a short time period, admittedly, but it happens. Now, I would prefer if you pay a little more respect to the moderation team, because that can be interpreted as flaming, trolling, AND disruptive behavior. We aren't idiots here. We know how to run things with technicalities if we have a user who runs on them too...
    (This rant was directed at LordNOah. cx_asuka, I liked your approach better. At least it was polite)
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    « Reply #466 on: July 28, 2011, 10:13:43 PM »


    Do you HAVE to trash the mods every chance you get? A simple, "I agree with that guy" or "he brings up some good points" could suffice. You don't give the moderation team the respect or credit they deserve. They bust their asses to make sure that the forum stays a likable place and all you do is try to show how evil they are, and what monsters they are, and how things should be run differently. What ever happened to "give respect, get respect"? If you don't like the way things are run, nobody is forcing you to stay. I've seen too much of what they do to let you keep getting cheap shots at them all the time. We all make mistakes. It happens. A lot of mistakes were made in a short time period, admittedly, but it happens. Now, I would prefer if you pay a little more respect to the moderation team, because that can be interpreted as flaming, trolling, AND disruptive behavior. We aren't idiots here. We know how to run things with technicalities if we have a user who runs on them too...
    (This rant was directed at LordNOah. cx_asuka, I liked your approach better. At least it was polite)

    I'm the one who takes shots at them?  Ever since I first brought something up, I've been disreguarded as "trolling" and not taken seriously. I actually have an excuse to be pissed off because it seems like every chance that presents its self to the staff they use against me, including one little banning incident that we all know wasn't an accident.  In fact, I'm pretty sure not much of anything I bring up can qualify as mistakes.

    Do you remember this?
    or maybe the polite response?
    I have tried to be polite in the past, it really hasn't worked.

    Lately, whenever I post anything its met with the same tone of "oh, you again.  How can we get rid of you this time."  Replies such as this, this, this, and not to mention this little incident 2 days ago (probably contains swears, click at own risk) completely justify my attitude.  Yeah, perhaps when you respect your members a little more I'll give you credit.  I'm really sorry for telling you when I think something is wrong.

    Edit : My Bad. Fixed.
    « Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 11:08:00 AM by Miacis DaShade » Logged


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    « Reply #467 on: July 28, 2011, 11:49:49 PM »


    I do remember those. And since I remember those, I can assure you that the situation was under control UNTIL you had to expose everything wrong with the forums, which led to the situation afterwards. The day started out as just a reminder to (the person who started the poll) to keep forum matters in the admin section before going public with it. It could have been left at that, and we could have avoided what had to be the most torturous administrating I have ever done. Before that incident, I only knew you as the guy on the irc. You didn't stick out as a troll, flamer, or disruptive person before this point. And you know how strongly you came on in that original post. You KNOW. That is why you asked permission for the second thread which I unfortunately approved, thinking that you would stay true to your word and keep the thread from getting out of hand, where I had to lock it again. So yes, after that, you were known as the guy who led a (successful) attack on the moderation team. Call it a troll, flamer, what-have-you, but you were considered dangerous.

    I don't see at any point where there was a "polite" tone to your words. Everything I encountered was condescending and attacking. The issue at hand originally was post count. I don't even know what to call what the situation has blown up into. And yeah, I know Oizen's response was more than childish, and he was punished for that after it happened. You threw the first blows in this fight (What's what), and we had nothing to do but defend our sorry hides. When the staff sees respect towards them, they will show it back. There's a way to address problems, and you just happened to do it the wrong way back then. And yeah, we avoid talking about it again because it will only stir up more of a mess like we had before. We'd prefer not to clean up a mess like that again.

    And I say "we" in these posts, but I mean the team, excluding me. I can't do anything except stand up for the people who I know are working intensely behind the scenes to keep crap from hitting a large fan.
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    « Reply #468 on: July 29, 2011, 01:27:29 AM »



    You know, after your little demonstration of corruption in the IRC that you jacked, as dead as it may be, really hurts your credibility when it comes to any time of moderation suggestion, not that you had much to begin with.

    I don't see why we should take advice,complaints and slander from the guy who basic ideal of moderation is "I don't care, as long as this place is active"

    another thing, you seem very....dissatisfied with the way things are run around here. Why don't you just go? We're not forcing you to visit this place, if you want a new forum for brawl hacking, you could try out the new LST forum, or just go to Smash Boards. Theres no reason for you to stay in a place you've hated on so much.

    What exactly are you trying to accomplish anyway?
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    « Reply #469 on: July 29, 2011, 04:28:25 AM »


    Okay ... let's go with Asuka's questions before moving to the more disorganized stuff.

    1) Kitty Leaks
    About the Warning, I'm pretty sure that it was removed later on for having been too strict, and that apologies were given.
    As for what some of the staff didn't lock the thread right away, and some did, it's pretty simple : we may try and be a coherent team, but we aren't all like-minded. While Oizen and I didn't fel necesary to lock the thread at first, Vish felt it was. To me, it was an acceptable decision either way, considering the nature of the website, and of the topic.
    I don't know about Oizen, but I have a little hunch ... I believe that some people here never realized that, with the attitude some users have toward him, if Oizen had locked the thread for the same reason as Vishk's, he'd have immediately been called all sort of names, and blamed for personnal vengeance, butthurt, etc...

    It's not really what I would call a blatant exemple of favoritism .... At best, a situation not handled as perfectly as some people expect us to be.

    2) Kitty Leaks in the Family Thread.
    It's up to a moderator's judgement to ask a specific topic to not be discussed if he feels that it's going to degenerate. Considering the discussions that had happenned in VILE's thread, and the very essence of his comics, I don't really think it was that farfetched to consider it would degenerate in the Family Thread.
    It's not because users bring up a topic that it won't degenerate at some point. If there is anything to blame, I'd say maybe Oizen's weird way of talking with the user discomfort thing. Because in essence, it was just stopping a potentially dangerous subject of discussion.

    As for Noah's sanction, it was removed, and the way his sanction was handled was discussed in the Admin Thread.

    3) The Kitty Leaks return.
    About Oizen's post, yes I guess it was a bit more agressive than it should have been. Why do you think it was deleted ? Answer is in the question.

    "Apparently, now the staff can and will delete any post they consider inappropriate."
    => It's always been the case, if I may. Also, cf #2 since I was more like, talking about "stopping potentialy dangerous conversations".

    "What if the staff member simply doesn't like my opinion about something and deletes my post claiming it was for the sake of keeping things in order?"
    => If it really was an abusive deletion, he'll get scolded for being an idiot and making the rest of the team look like buffoons. and the post will be restored. You can also contest something like that in the appropriate place if it happens.
    Kinda like asking "What if a staff member doesn't like me and thus mutes me ? Staff shouldn't be muting people." It's a moderation act all the same.

    "[...]I gotta say some of them were quite harmless..."
    => Again, and again, and again, these things really are left to the moderator's discretion, and rely heavily on the context. A post encased and linked to an off-topic, agressive discussion can be removed even if by itself it was harmless (keeping it lying around would make no sense since it wouldn't refer to anything in the thread). A post that could lead to a dangerous discussion, in a touchy topic can go down too if a mod judges it necessary.

    "It shows Oizen's motivation to lock the thread (and the previous warning spree in the family thread) is more for personal reasons rather than being objective as a mod."
    => It's not because you disagree with another staff guy that it makes you act for personnal reasons ...
     
    I dunno, but you seem to have missed that, at the time, KL had already caused enough trouble as is. And VILE was making it a personnal vendetta at the time, to top it all. To me, both Oizen's and Vyse's judgement were justified by experience. Oizen was technically more prudent in dealing with it moderation-wise.

    "if it happened a couple months ago, it's way in the past and doesn't even matter anymore..."
    => "It doesn't matter anymore", because we're kinda more focused on making the present forum look correct, than actually trying to rebuild the past one. Wink

    About SW, everything was settled in the Moderation corner with the actual "victim".

    4) Goodbye topics
    Oh hey, this one is actually easy to reply to. ^^

    Look at the time of your screenshots. Sorceress created her thread at 10:13:59 AM, Oizen his thread at 8:57:33 PM. Btw, it was already brought up somewhere else (maybe the Admin thread, I don't remember) and the same answer was given.

    One could even hypothtize that it was Sorceress's thread that encourage Oizen to create his topic.

    "Was it closed because he said he didn't like how the staff works?"
    => The way he saw our work was what gave birth to his big rant and off-topic. Saw yeah, it's a cause => consequence thing.

    (And again, we discussed the matter already with SW in the Moderation Corner. So I think there's no more reason to keep white-knighting him by now.)

    5, 7, 8) Words/Exressions/Censor things.

    This subject of discussion is a huge mess even to us, and alot of moderators are still a bit confused about this one. I'd blame the utter confusion over favoritism, really.  Undecided
    We're late in updating the rules and making our own "rules on how we should moderate things in practice", so please be a bit forgiving if some things aren't really all that consistent. >_>;;

    We're trying to find "typical reactions" for as many of the specific examples you guys are showing us as possible.

    6) The Warn status time ... well, two things :

    - You already guessed it yourself : it's up to the moderator's judgement. Sometimes, you can mute someone for a few hours, just the time for them to calm down. Sometimes, the user is considered to having a more malicious intent, or having done a worse infraction, and is sanctionned for a longer time

    - I have a hunch that the auto-removal of warnings doesn't work all the time ... I'll need to investigate a bit on who warned what and see if there are any inconsistencies. But I'm freakin' busy all the time, so please be patient.
    And if something was forgotten in the process, I think we all prefer a polite reminder than a [censored]in' about power abuse, favoritism, etc... (Not saying that what you're doing, but ... eh, you get what I mean.)

    9) About Missed sanctions.

    (To any user beside Asuka : If you see something that we missed. Then report it, or don't complain about it.)
    As to why your reports are not reported (I swear on anything that is holy that none of these reports appeared in the Reported Posts section) . I have a little hunch ...
    Italian has got the same issue as you do, I believe.

    I have the feeling that the custom ranks Hakumen gave you out of pure charity are messing with the Report system. I'll remove yours temporarily. Once it's done, could you please report any post (OUTSIDE of the Stages section) with a TEST mention on it ?

    10) Above rules thing.

    I dunno about the Oizen's post you made ... I guess I'll add those as examples in out own "Moderation tactics topic".
    The huge fonts thing was rather stupid though. I'll go and scold Oizen for that I guess. (But it's kinda too late to sanction it, since well, we don't even sanction regular user's  month-old posts for spammy/light flaming stuff, for obvious reasons.)

    "ID theft fad"
    => Had I been around, I guess I'd have asked for it to stop rather quickly, mostly for the same reasons as the Longnames fad.
    But that's more like a "missed infraction" (more like an annoyance than an infraction to the rules, really) than a "staff above the rules", in case you haven't noticed.

    "The reason why I didn't "screen captured" anything of that is because when I finally had the chance to do it, they had already stopped and gone back to normal."
    => No proble, I see what you mean. Smiley

    TLDR :
    1) Lots of things are up to moderation's judgement, especially things that are/aren't considered "potentially dangerous to the discussion".
    2) Technical problems.
    3) Late to Updating the twin Rules topics.
    « Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 05:38:02 AM by Miacis DaShade » Logged

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    « Reply #470 on: July 29, 2011, 04:32:12 AM »


    One could even hypothtize that it was Sorceress's thread that encourage Oizen to create his topic.
    Did you read my mind or something, i was thinking the same thing. o.o

    Edit: I approve of the rule for goodbye threads for certain reasons, but i think goodbye threads should say the real reason for the person leaving, I forgive Mikuru for her thread, she had to leave for a rl issue, but nothing related to leaving because of me, i forgive her totally, i never disliked her in the first place, but i think goodbye threads should say the real reason for the person leaving and i did leave because of my "mouth surgery" but the rule was made afterwords, but i came back because i said i will come back when i feel better and here i am.

    And for the part about "Oizen's Flaming" i seen that post he made about me, i don't mind him trolling me, but i think he should be alittle more nicer to other users, including me.
    « Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 05:09:10 AM by Sorceress » Logged

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    « Reply #471 on: July 29, 2011, 05:24:52 AM »


    "I don't care, as long as this place is active"
    I think this actually fits allenmelon's politics a bit more, to be honest.

    Did you read my mind or something, i was thinking the same thing. o.o
    Empathy. I haz it. Tongue
    « Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 05:33:32 AM by Miacis DaShade » Logged

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    « Reply #472 on: July 29, 2011, 05:33:37 AM »


    Umm... may i ask what happens to users with usernames that contains swear words or something similar?
    « Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 05:35:03 AM by Sorceress » Logged

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    « Reply #473 on: July 29, 2011, 05:37:05 AM »


    Umm... may i ask what happens to users with usernames that contains swear words or something similar?
    I quess they'll be kindly asked to change it to something more legit. And if they don't, we'll just change the name back to their registration name.

    *adds it to the Moderation Tactics rough draft*
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    « Reply #474 on: July 29, 2011, 05:39:20 AM »


    I quess they'll be kindly asked to change it to something more legit. And if they don't, we'll just change the name back to their registration name.

    *adds it to the Moderation Tactics rough draft*
    What happens if they registered as the name and they spelled it wrong, does those count?
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    « Reply #475 on: July 29, 2011, 05:47:56 AM »


    I guess that for very specific stuff like that, it will be done on a case by case basis and through discussions with the user.

    (However, one cannot register on the boards with a currently censored word in his username. Something I had experienced on my first time here when Random had "replaced" Miacis with The original furry. Effectively not allowing me to register here. Tongue)
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    « Reply #476 on: July 29, 2011, 05:53:23 AM »


    So because Random messed with your username, you couldn't register here, well thats bad, but now is that "power abuse"?

    and for the "Bots", what happens if they don't act like one and we mistake it for a user or a user for a bot, what would you guys do then?
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    « Reply #477 on: July 29, 2011, 06:25:42 AM »


    So because Random messed with your username, you couldn't register here, well thats bad, but now is that "power abuse"?
    Yeah, that was some pretty epic power abuse, back in the day. Tongue
    But hey, it's all settled now, so who cares ?

    Quote
    and for the "Bots", what happens if they don't act like one and we mistake it for a user or a user for a bot, what would you guys do then?
    ? Not sure what you mean. If we have the certitude an account is a bot, we'll ban it. Not sure where "how the regular users consider a bot" intervenes here.
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    « Reply #478 on: July 29, 2011, 06:29:33 AM »


    ? Not sure what you mean. If we have the certitude an account is a bot, we'll ban it. Not sure where "how the regular users consider a bot" intervenes here.
    Well if a new user has a advertising link in his/her sig, but hasn't picked a avatar, but already made a intro thread and people are already calling the user a bot, is their any way for mods/admins to check if he/she is human.
    « Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 06:34:07 AM by Sorceress » Logged

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    « Reply #479 on: July 29, 2011, 07:50:13 AM »


    Well if a new user has a advertising link in his/her sig, but hasn't picked a avatar, but already made a intro thread and people are already calling the user a bot, is their any way for mods/admins to check if he/she is human.
    We'll check for various stuff like the hostame, profile infos, and the like. Once we're sure it's a bot, we'll ban it. Simple as that.

    Also, the Rules have finally been updated. If anything important was forgotten, please do tell.
    Our "Moderation Tactics Guidelines" will soon follow in the Admin board. Tongue
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