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« on: July 11, 2011, 10:08:32 PM » |
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A super late response to this: http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=17972.0Yes, we can all be sure that the 100+ shadow hacks, as well as pages of unmentioned others, lack creativity, and most are simply rehashes that probably took less than 30 minutes. That's one kind of unoriginality. Doing what has already been done, and not usually attempting anything new. Yes, nobody likes that kind of stuff. Seeing dozens of hacks that are nearly identical to each other. That is only one kind of unoriginality. I think people tend to forget or simply ignore another perspective. Go look in the vault, and try to find a character not based on a preexisting, game, movie, anything. It will take you a looong time. Originality is more than not copying others preexisting work in the vault. Originality is, by definition, the ability to create, to innovate, to NOT copy any preexisting material. This, of course, is easier said than done. Creating characters from scratch, while doable, isn't exactly easy. There are other ways to be original though. Creating "remixes", if you will, of preexisting characters, isn't often frequented here. Imagine someone making link link into fierce deity link, without majora's mask having existed. These kinds of creations are rare here. As black boo said, the key is ingenuity. There are many varieties of ways you can change the appearance of a character, most will be hidden by linear thinking. It is easier to be original with any other kind of hacking though. Brand new PSAs that aren't based off of something in existing games is something more common. brand new stages I see less of, but are very easy to think up. While I'm certainly not denouncing all of the hacks that are based off of other things, it is nice to see original work thought up by the creator. So when you're trying to think of what character from a different game that everyone would love to see in brawl, remember that you don't have to get your ideas like that. Just something to think about  |
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 02:03:25 AM » |
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Except there's one thing. Very few people actually care about people's original creations even if they do make them. One of the few exceptions to this rule is Aafyre's persona, but even then if it wasn't for the fact that it was someone renowned like Aafyre, people just wouldn't care, despite the fact that it looks great. People would probably prefer to have Rosalina or something. Wave is also another exception, since Wave is Wave.
But in my opinion, quality matters WAY more over originality. I may get someone's fan character but only if it actually looks good, and the sad truth is that most of them don't. Partially due to the fact that the majority of original characters are crappy Sonic fan characters but whatevs.
The other thing that is more important to me than originality is creativity. "But aren't they basically the same thing?" you may be asking. Will let me reiterate.
A hack can be creative, without being original. It doesn't have to be completely thought up by the creator to work creatively. Look at LenSho's stages for example. They all follow a theme of a stage from a game, but he sets his stages out in a creative way. Or one of KingJigglypuff's PSAs like Yosemite Sam. That again, is creative but not an original character.
This doesn't mean that originality doesn't matter, but it's one of the least contributing factors to a good hack.
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« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 03:41:46 AM by SDo0m InCaRnAtI0n »
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 02:39:59 AM » |
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That's right. Many many many people will NOT DL or use fan characters, regardless of quality period, mainly because most original hacks fall under Sturgeon's Law far, FAR more often than normal hacks, especially in the case of Sonic fan characters.
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« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 02:43:22 AM by Eternal Yoshi »
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 06:30:32 AM » |
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I try to work off of Video Game material, but I'd like to do it so I could make something that looks new, that's fitting as a stage, and is still accurate to the source, more or less.
Basically, how the Brawl Devs came up with, say, New Pork City. It certainly is accurate to the source, but I don't think the area was shown that way (Hulking, cobbled together, with those awesome but grim-looking rocket engines)
Like my Wily's Castle stage.
The rest of my stages, not so much, due to limitations in stage making (Having to use preexisting models).
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2011, 03:56:51 PM » |
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Personally speaking I try to keep my character hacks that I use to pre-existing themes. The only exception to my rule here is Aafyre's persona as he made it look fantastic! Also Wave Kusanagi interests me, but I'm not sure that I'll ever use him. That may be my problem with original characters to be honest. Most of the ones I've seen lack quality. And don't even get me started on all the Sonic crap I've seen. >_>
At any rate I'm different with my stages! I love original stages. I will admit I'm still partial to well done Nintendo/Other game themed stages, but I'll try a quality original stage any day of the week!
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Married: N/A | Dad: LenSho | Bros: dRage ~ Robz ~ Oizen ~ Vish | Nephew ~ Seraph  |
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2011, 09:02:52 AM » |
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I don't know about you guys, I make hacks of people I wish were in brawl but didn't make the cut. (or just someone that would be badass to play with)
Sure. Making some original characters would be fun for personal use, but as people have mentioned, there usually isn't that much of an interest!
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[PICTURE REMOVED. Reason: Total signature pic size exceeds 695x200.]  |
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 09:58:50 AM » |
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I agree with you in the terms of a lack of original characters, but I think that the problem comes with a lack of stuff that you can do with them. Most characters from existing franchises have plenty of moves that can be taken from their original games, with some original moves sprinkled here and there, and are (well, as far as PSA can ever be) easier to make than original characters. Original characters have to have moves made from scratch. Sure, there are some vertexes, and numerous fan textures, but there's little to no PSA's. Exceptions being Wave (which defies Sturgeon's Law as part of that 10%) and Eldiran's Wisp (Well, it was awesome enough to port over G&W). And one other Sonic fan character with 2 or 3 changed moves and taunts. Other than that, absolutely nothing. Even if the character's good, without a PSA it still feels like I'm playing as the original character. But then again, that goes for any character vertex and is the reason why I as a rule don't replace characters without a PSA unless they're like Fierce Deity Link or Female Link.
But, I think that creativity and the fun factor are much more important than character originality. I'll use SDo0m as an example: Viewtiful Joe is one of the most fun characters I've played as. It's well-done and I keep finding new ways to get better with him. Sure, he was based off of an existing franchise, but it was very fun. Only thing bad was having to replace Captain Falcon, but now it can go over Yoshi. Also, there's Calamitas' Clouby, Dederoth, and Shadow the Kong, which are great meta-interpretations of overdone characters.
With that being said, Sturgeon's Law falls hard on many of the fan characters. It's to the point where I pretty much hate Sonic fan characters with a passion (Wave is an exception). Somehow, it's almost as if people think that they only put up Sonic hacks for the sake of getting downloads like it's their ego level or something. Maybe they just put up hacks because they made them for themselves and figured they'd upload them to share with other people, with no intent of getting downloads. Which is actually respectable. I personally have a couple of texture (and pre-made vertex) hacks for machinima purposes that I have no interest in uploading. I could end up being too cynical about the psyche of fan character makers. If they are doing it for the downloads, then it's ridiculous.
Overall though, I would certainly use original characters if they had a PSA to go with them. I just don't see people going to the trouble of making a moveset for a character that most people won't care about. If a character and PSA defies Sturgeon's Law and is part of the 10% worth dying for, I'll check it out. Otherwise, it's not really worthwhile.
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 11:00:27 AM » |
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Continuing on from IWasAPerson, another problem with Original Characters is that they often require a certain amount of explanation. Some, too little, and others, far too much.
For example, Wave himself has a story that was ongoing constantly, being written, revised and continued forward from 1998 all the way until today. All of my other characters included in that except for Keil Crimson, who is my newest character who has his own story that circles around and reconnects to Wave's. (Doesn't help he's Wave's youngest son.)
Wave himself would require a lot of explanation just to understand exactly who and what he is and why he's that way. There's an explanation and details upon details for absolutely everything in his story "Chronicles of the Twilight" to where if you have enough time to go through it all, you won't have any questions by the time you're finished aside from "So what's next? What's he gonna go through now?"
Not everyone is interested in that or has the time or patience to listen, and sometimes the creator themselves doesn't have the time to explain or patience, and a simple bio isn't enough...or hasn't been made.
It's a complicated dilemma. I myself have been thinking of how to present things in a simple fashion to people. Typing it all up in an organized fashion would be good, but I don't know where to put it all. I could try making a comic since I'm an artist, but I hardly have the patience to do it all alone, and no one to help me. Verbally? Please. Who has time to listen to 13 years worth of story?
And even if I manage to do any of those, there's no point in it all if no one is interested. *shrugs*
So yeah, it's easier to just make an awesome hack of someone from another "official" and known series that people would like than to advertise your own character out of the blue.
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« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 11:02:34 AM by Zephyrous »
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 03:37:36 PM » |
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I hope the stuff I've done's original enough o.o
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2011, 08:52:30 PM » |
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Yeah, there isn't very much interest in characters made from scratch, and they're dificult to make, and as wave and Iwasaperson said, they need explanations and a background. However, it's much easier to create brand new stages and PSAs, and we still don't see very much of them.
Nice thoughts yall.
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2011, 03:15:25 PM » |
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I wished I could bring my sonic char to brawl, just evry vertex I start messes up. I was asking for help on the help setion, but I didnt get much answer (or any that helped)
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« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2011, 04:27:22 PM » |
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I myself am a person who has a Sonic OC (I prefer OC orver FC for personal reasons), and he is the character I get my forum name from.
Velen Ziga is a character I made a few years back, who for a while was the one character I attempted to draw the most. As a result. His appearance and name (originally being gold and green and his name being "Volt" a fairly unoriginal name) evolved to what he is now.
Like the others above said though, it would take some explanation and information to make people understand why he is original, the best example being that he originally wasn't even supposed to be part of Sonic's world, or even from Sonic's universe.
-unfortunately. I cannot go further without reiterating what has been said above, so I'll stop here.
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« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 04:28:36 PM by Velen »
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 3DS Friend Code: 2895-6640-9302 |
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2011, 06:28:07 PM » |
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Nobody wants to play as other people's fan characters. They want characters and stages from games or TV shows that they like.
Remaking the same character over and over, now that's another thing.
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« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2011, 06:59:29 PM » |
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I seem to have an exception that proves a rule. My Heavily Armored Diddy Kong hack is completely original, and it has an insane amount of downloads for being so. o.O
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2011, 10:54:57 AM » |
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The appeal of Smash is that it's a crossover fighter. It brought together characters from a bunch of Nintendo games and let them beat each other up, and hacking lets people add in characters that never would have been possible otherwise.
While it may be awesome for you to come up with an original character and see it in the game beating up Mario, you can't expect everyone else to look at your OC and feel the same way.
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