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Author Topic: advanced model importing (master the dummy importing first) [WIP]  (Read 1410 times)
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BlueBrain
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    « on: April 22, 2012, 11:05:22 AM »


    THE AWESOME ADVANCED STUFF TUTORIAL!

    this thread will contain some more advanced stuff...
    so, here is what will be covered:
    -one-slot bone modifications (not the same as size mods)-
    -modifying your model to make the rig easier-
    -more stuff later-

    ONE-SLOT MODIFICATIONS

    Q:when does this process start?
    A: BEFORE aplying the SKIN modifier

    Q: when is this finished?
    A: at the very END of the importing process

    Q: what do i need done already?
    A: you need the model fitting your boneset almost completely (except the bones u're going to modify)

    Q: shall we start?
    A: sure!

    we're in 3ds max, with our model and our boneset, so let's say it's over ganondorf, who has abnormally long arms, we're gonna fix that.
    probably most of the models u wanna put over ganon will fit completely except the arms (with this i mean legs fit correctly, so does the torso and the neck, so maybe you want to change the position of the ShoulderJ bones and the arm bones, to make them symetrical edit one of the two sides, right click on the move icon, and copy the X axis of the absolute world part and paste it on the other bone (remember that one should be a positive value and the other one a negative value)


    now we have the boneset editted (do this with any bone you want, but remember we'll edit the motionpac, so dont move too many bones around for filesize purposes...)

    [enter rigging process here]

    [exporting model]

    [importing to brawlbox]

    now we have our model in brawlbox, if u preview the model, he'll be as in 3ds max, of course, but if u load the motionetc.pac of the character he is over, u'll notice all his editted bones go back to place, and probably giving u some ugly stretching...
    copy the motionetc.pac and paste wherever u want, open it with brawlbox, open the fitmotion tab and right click on the animation data, now click on edit all.


    u'll get a window, make it look like this:


    do this once for each bone u editted, now in ur model, change the bone names to what u've inserted up there.
    try ur new fitmotionetc.pac with ur new model and see the awesomeness of awesome proportions.


    DISCOVERING THE AWESOME MODIFIERS AND TRICKS IN 3DS MAX

    Q: what will we learn here?
    A: lots of stuff, orientated to making the rigging process a bit easier.

    Q: where does this process begin?
    A: before the rigging process.

    Q: where does this process end?
    A: before the rigging process

    Q: can i do this stuff after rigging?
    A: some, yes... most, no...

    Q: shall we begin?
    A: sure!

    MODIFIER 1: vertex weld

    Q: can this be done after rigging?
    A: i think so, use the modifier and then move it below the skin modifier.

    Q: when should i use this modifier?
    A: when your model is separated for no logical reason, but has perfectly matching vertices.

    i'll only mention this modifier, for all you people who don't know this exists...
    if you apply this modifier, all the vertices at the same position will merge together.

    this is very usefull, since some models come separated in polygons, instead of real objects, and are impossible to smooth out, by using this modifier you will be able to smooth the model. ^^

    TRICK 1: getting ur model in few pieces

    Q: when should i do this?
    A: when you have a lot of objects using the same texture.

    Q: can this be done after rigging?
    A: NO!

    ok, so what we're going to do here, is attaching all the objects that use the same texture, a GREAT example of models needing this are the mvc3 models.

    first, be sure that ur models have no modifiers, if the do have them, right click the last (upper) and click on collapse all, this should get rid of all the modifiers by applying them definitely in ur model.

    now that ur model doesnt have any modifiers anymore, select one of the objects you want to merge, right click and click on "Attach", now simply click on every object you want to include in your "global" object.

    once you have them all together, we'll apply a vertex weld modifier, that way, when the vertices are in identical place, they'll merge into one, getting rid of the holes between the arm and torso for example.

    we're done now, this way u won't have to care that much for giving two vertices the exact same weight values, since they're now just one!!

    MODIFIER 2: prooptimizer

    Q: when should i use this?
    A: when your model has waaaaay too many vertices and faces, remember that if ur model uses quads, the face count will double, since brawl uses triangles...

    Q: can i use this after the skin modifier?
    A: NO!

    tip: use this after TRICK 1 if you are going to use that trick.

    this modifier is pretty simple too, apply it to the main objects, like the torse, arms, legs and head, u probably wont want to apply it to hair...
    once you've selected the modifier, look at the options, and check both "keep textures" and "keep UV boundaries", now click on calculate, and the modifier will calculate how many faces and vertices ur selected objects have all together, now simply reduce the % as much as you can without making it look crappy, and you're done!



    MORE TO COME!!!!
    « Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 11:07:08 AM by gamma kid » Logged

    FallenKing
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    « Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 12:58:43 PM »


    Awesome tips. I'll definitely be putting some of these to use; especially the one-slot advice. When I did the one-slot size mod for Krillin-Mario, it took me like 1.5 hours to use this other method where I only edited the motionpac. I had to go through EVERY single animation and "replace" each of the RotYN bones with a new one that I made and renamed to only work on the Krillin import. Your method looks like it'd save a lot of time. lol

    It's difficult for me to fully comprehend what the "vertex wield" and "trick 1" do. The instructions are clear, but I have a hard time understanding what they're actually used for without pics to look at. I'm not retarded or anything, I've actually read through it a few times. I understand like 65% of it, but there are a few key terms that I don't understand, probably because I've only used 3DS Max and Brawlbox for like a month and all of this hacking stuff is completely new to me.

    When I was importing Thor over Ganondorf, I was unable to get his pants to move properly. If I made the pants straightened out, it wouldn't move with the legs, and it would sort of sink into his skin. If I made the pants move more with the legs, it would look un-straight, un-smooth, and it'd stretch weirdly during his animations. If I had this type of problem, which one of the mods/tricks that you mentioned should I use?
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    BlueBrain
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    « Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 01:46:27 PM »


    when the legs bend into the body when rotating the bone, it's cuz the leg doesnt really match the bone's position...
    that's just a matter of weighting
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    FallenKing
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    « Reply #3 on: April 23, 2012, 02:50:16 PM »


    Whoops, I don't think I described my problem accurately. I kept referring to the clothing as "it", so I must not have been clear, lol. I meant it was the clothing on Thor's waist that I had problems with. The clothing around his waist area would sink into his legs when he moves, or it would stretch out weirdly when he moves. As for the bare legs themselves, I don't think they were too much of a problem.
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    BlueBrain
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    « Reply #4 on: April 23, 2012, 02:53:15 PM »


    oh that, well, it keeps being a weight problem, and of course it's hard, cuz the thor model probably had it's own bones, but now it doesnt... xD
    i would try setting it at 0,5 on the hip and 0,5 on the leg, and if it doesnt look good, try 0,25 0,75 and other posibilities
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    FallenKing
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    « Reply #5 on: April 25, 2012, 01:25:50 AM »


    I can't seem to get the one-slot size mod down. I've followed your instructions except the part on 3DS Max. I don't think that part was mandatory, was it? Here's what I did:

    1. Renamed the YRotN bone to YRotNOkami (I'm importing amaterasu onto Ivysaur) on my pac & pcs files. Then I saved.
    2. Closed the pac & pcs files and opened motion file.
    3. Clicked "edit all" for animation data.
    4. Filled it out like this:

    change all bone entries with the name: YRotNOkami
    copy keyframes from: YRotN
    [add]: Scale X: .5     Scale Y: .5     Scale Z: .5
    [add]: Rot: 0 for all
    [replace]: Translate Y: 1.45 (other 2 left blank)

    5. Saved animation file. The preview worked perfectly on Brawlbox, where each animation was scaled and translated properly. I moved the saved pcs/pac/motion files to my SD card, booted up the game, and the size mod had no effect.

    Did I forget something? I think I followed all the instructions, but is it because I never went through each animation in the motion file and actually CREATED a new bone named "YRotNOkami"? If so, is there a fast way to do this besides having to go through every single animation?
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    BlueBrain
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    « Reply #6 on: April 25, 2012, 02:52:12 AM »


    the edit all creates the bone if it doesnt exist, but i dont understand why it wouldn't work in-game while it works in bb...
    it's really weird...
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    FallenKing
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    « Reply #7 on: April 25, 2012, 09:11:13 AM »


    You're right. I checked the motion file, and it turns out the new bone was created. I'm still baffled as to why it doesn't work though. I renamed the file properly. FitPokeFushigisouMotionEtc.pac is the name for Ivysaur's motion file, right? Did I follow your instructions properly when I listed those steps above?

    The only thing I can imagine is that maybe it did work, but I just didn't notice it. I reeally doubt that's what happened though. I'll try to increase the size even more and try again tonight, but I'm sure the results will be the same. Sad

    I noticed that Ivysaur has a slightly different layout on his pac & pcs files compared to other characters, but I don't think that really matters.

    If it's not too much trouble, could I send you my pac, pcs, and motion file? I don't think it would take too long to find what it is that I did wrong. I can't get any sleep tonight till I figure this out!!! lol
    « Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 09:15:26 AM by FaIIenKing » Logged

    BlueBrain
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    « Reply #8 on: April 25, 2012, 10:40:47 AM »


    check out the common pac files, i think there is one with pokemon animations, replace the pokefushiblabla.pac that is in there with urs, not sure though...
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    FallenKing
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    « Reply #9 on: April 25, 2012, 11:40:51 AM »


    The common file has animations for charizard and squirtle, but not ivysaur. Lol

    Oh well, I'll just release it as is. It's a lazy rig where everything is weighted to the bustN bone, and I JUST found out Beyond is doing this, so there's not much point in persisting through this any more. Lol
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    « Reply #10 on: May 02, 2012, 05:11:15 PM »


    Nice tips. A funny thing I found is your example. I have just finished a model over ganon, whose arms are way LONGER than ganon's. And so are his legs. I wanted to keep proportions so I did a really weird trick involving adding bones between joints, resizing those, and editing the YRotN on every animations to avoid it from going below floor level(due to longer legs). I think I spent more time fixing the motion than the actual model Im srs here

    This tips will make many of my future projects really easy.
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    FallenKing
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    « Reply #11 on: May 02, 2012, 05:43:33 PM »


    I'd really like to learn how to add bones and stuff like what Beyond is doing with Amaterasu.
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    BlueBrain
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    « Reply #12 on: May 03, 2012, 03:05:05 AM »


    as soon as i learn how to do that without messing up the bone indexes i'll put it in the tutorials
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    « Reply #13 on: May 03, 2012, 11:46:04 AM »


    What I did to avoid messing the indexes is that I deleted an uneeded bone that was next to or really close to where I added the newbone. It avoids messing the indexes but its not perfect.
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    BlueBrain
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    « Reply #14 on: May 03, 2012, 11:47:50 AM »


    i guess i understand...
    i gotta say im not a real fan of that method...
    probably cuz i haven't tried it yet, and the way i did it with mickey worked perfectly for me... but idk about messing with bone's positions and stuff....
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