How do you feel about importing?

[FallenKing]

I saw a lot of polls on other users' topics asking about importing, so I wanted to personally make a thread to directly ask everyone how they feel about it. Not every topic here has to be a "<insert username>'s importing universe!" topic, does it?

I personally think importing is the greatest thing that's happened to Brawl hacking since PSA's. I discovered Brawl hacking only a few months before the importing phenomenon, so I've been here long enough to know what it was like before importing. When I noticed the new import hacks, I thought this was a huge step forward. I look back at some of the vertex hacks that I had, and I'll think, "damn, I can't believe I actually downloaded this garbage", no offense to you vertexers; a lot of the vertex hacks are still really good. Despite that, I have almost no vertex hacks on my slots anymore, lol.

I'll probably admit that while importing takes effort, it doesn't require skill like animating and vertexing. There's no art or imagination involved in importing, but I'll take an import over a vertexed model any day. Vertexing is pretty much dead nowadays, because you just can't beat the professional model-creators that made the actual video games.

I'm a progressive type of guy, and I love imports. Here's to the future! 

[Christian_CAO]

I also enjoy model imports, but don't knock vertexing out of the picture yet  It's still being slightly used for some imports, from what I can tell.

I love the transition bawl hacking has made over the years, and model importing is really a neat step. Though I'd love to see more custom models being imported, since few do import self created models. However I enjoy the remixes that folks have been putting up as of late.

Looking forward to the next step... though.... eh, never mind. 

[Spex130]

Warning: Text Wall incoming.

Well, I like to think of it this way. It's less "Model Importing" and more "Vertexing without limit."

I love model importing, don't get me wrong. But with model imports, what I enjoy most is original stuff! I don't think vertexing is dead. (Besides the methods, anyway. Quintuple Patching needed to die lol). In fact, I think it's used more than ever.

You see, when Model Imports were first introduced, I was in StarWaffle's Vertex School. It was the week before the final, too. Bad timing, right? But I've found it helps me. If I need to edit a model to fit the bones, boom, I know how to by vertexing. I know a few Model importers who are like "The Model is Sacred, don't touch the model," and it ends up affecting the quality of their rig for the worse. Vertexing lets me change the model without "changing" the model. And even then, vertexing got me a head start on how to custom build things. Heck, I have a 100% custom model 90% done right now.

So yeah, don't think of vertexing as dead. Think of Model Importing as the next level. I wanna see it so someday everybody's making custom stuff! It'd be sooo cool! I mean, it's like the difference between tracing and drawing something. Sure, if you trace it, it looks cool, but if you made it, NOW you have something to be proud of!


Oh. And this might be the wrong section. Don't quote me on that though.

[toastoftriumph]

Well said Spex.

Pretty much, I have the same opinion; importing is awesome, and a great technological improvement, but I'd really like to see it used for original creations rather than taking things directly from other games.
In some sense, importing has redirected a lot of focus elsewhere from just character hacks. Since less time is spent making characters appear to match those of other franchises, PSAs, animating, and other things have picked up slightly (although I suppose they were already becoming more popular before importing).
Hopefully though, importing makes it easier for the newcomer to start making new content. In particular, I've personally been making some slow progress on stage design, which would have been unimaginably limited had I needed to edit models specifically from Brawl, versus making them from scratch.

I guess when you look at it, the majority of stuff on the Vault before vertexing wasn't exactly original anyways. Sure, models still had to be edited and made to match content from a certain franchise, but they was still unoriginal in the sense that most people don't come up with their own characters (or different interpretations of pre-made characters); they'd just make Cloud, Shadow or whoever else out of the original cast. (But don't get me wrong, I don't believe all of those Sonic fan characters are that original either).

[Beyond]

Is this the right board for this thread? I dunno. Don't care.

So here's my thoughts on importing...


First thing I have to say is from an actual importers perspective, I HATE rigging. I love the freedom importing offers me when editing models, being able to edit the normals and UVs as I please but if it weren't for the fact I had to rig said models I would be releasing imports as fast as I released vertex hacks.

Also, as importing is a much simpler process than vertexing we see a lot more people importing models and I know I'm not the only one who notices the half-assed imports that have been released over these past months. Though they are numerous, a lot of good ones have been released too.

I feel that the majority of imports are characters, and a lot of my excitement for model importing was actually for stages but it seems that side of modding has been neglected.


meh... <_< my thoughts are all over the place....

I should collect my thoughts before I post more, I do have more to say....

[Albafika]

Is this the right board for this thread? I dunno. Don't care.

Totally not.

[Solar99]

I agree with Beyond. Love the freedom and possiblities, HATE the rigging.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

Agreed with numerous of the above comments.  Particularly Spex's on original/edited models and Beyond's comment on half assed imports.  The number of imports with poor rigs, shader issues, ugly flat textures etc is kinda sad and what's even more sad is that some of these get more downloads than the imports that are really excellent.

That said though, I guess this is inevitable and applies to basically every form of modding. 

[pikazz]

I love the model importion, it's like a dream that is forbidden to even dream of.
the possibilitys, the freedom.
sadly it's many that hasn't the best rig or best texture or shadowissues :/
but that's common, the reason is there is new to brawlhacking everyday and you can't be a pro on your first time or new to hacking.
it takes time and patience and practice to be a good brawlhacker. I have know PSA since it came out but I would rate myself as a 4/5 of 10 on it now this day cause I haven't been so focused on that or practice.
all is about practices, you can't be pro on one day and you have to always improve yourself.


only me that actually enjoys rigging? o.o
I am on the flow with it :3

[Eternal Yoshi]

Rigging is a true PITA, ESPECIALLY ON MODELS WHOSE T-STANCES HAVE THEM AT ATTENTION, LIKE THIS.


Think that, but with the arms perfectly vertical, meaning they clip in to their ribs and hips.... and the shoulders. OH GOD THE SHOULDERS.

Try rigging a model like that and then try to say that.  

Seriously, look at Raiden and Solidus' models in Brawlbox with no animation. Now try to rerig them. I dare you.

Anyway, my secret stage which is made up of custom created models and still WIP is in a pic of one of my hacks.
Try to find it!

[FallenKing]

Even though I'm an importer, I'll admit I don't think that the rigging process is fun either. I only enjoy getting the end results.

I don't think I've seen any half-assed rigs besides my SS Link (which is only half-finished). Maybe it's hard for me to notice anything in-game since the camera is zoomed out and everything is constantly in motion. I don't pause the camera and zoom in on models to really look for problems. Maybe it's because I only download good imports? When ppl refer to the "half-assed imports", I'm guessing that they refer to imports like mine, since I can't make great imports just yet.

[Solar99]

@Yoshi You think that's hard? Try rigging something that's in some sort of action pose.

[BlackJax96]

I like rigging >.>
Except those damn shoulders <.<

[Gamma Ridley]

I love importing because of the possibilities it opens for stages. Really, what I've seen is that importing opens up a huge world of possibilities that normal stage making couldn't offer, and I enjoy it so much more than character making.

The rigging is pretty easy (since most stages wouldn't have anything overly complicated, unless there's like a character or something in the background) but the tough part can be the modeling. If you're like me and not too great at modeling, it can be a challenge. But it's definitely much easier than character importing, where you have to worry more about optimization.

So yeah. Hopefully some cool stages will be made in the future, I have a few planned myself and I'd love to see what others come up with.

[LC-DDM]

I feel that the majority of imports are characters, and a lot of my excitement for model importing was actually for stages but it seems that side of modding has been neglected.

Funny thing, I've been thinkin' about importin' certain maps for use in Brawl.

Thing is, I don't know all that well how would DFFs work in multiples to set up at least a design of how the map would work (let's face it, CJ was a single file -- that Nuke rigged, eternal props to him -- and that was off a file that had CJ as a ped in his default clothes. Given that each section of CJ's model is seperate, I'd have to get all the files and get them together, somethin' I don't exactly know all that well yet). The point here is, you're not the only one thinkin' of maps as imports. I just don't know where I would get a proper thing to import BSP maps (circa Q3 era, to be accurate) and I'm not exactly aware of gettin' multiple DFFs workin' together for one thing. Hell, first idea I had to give CJ a stage was fighting on a car. <_>

But I've veered off-topic to the point I just crashed on the railroad tracks here. I'm agreeing with Beyond on this, importing is nice, but there's too much of characters and not enough of stages.