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Author Topic: BrawlVault: Feedback and Updates  (Read 544339 times)
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windhunter7
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    « Reply #600 on: January 28, 2016, 12:13:15 PM »


    I have an idea: If you guys approve me to be a BV Staff member, and then tell me how to judge if a hack is worth approval, then I can approve or unapprove the hacks, since I'm on here daily, which would mean not long for any hacks at all to be pending.
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    « Reply #601 on: January 28, 2016, 12:27:01 PM »


    Slight change of subject: Whenever I add multiple collaborators to a submission, the order of them becomes very different after submitting. This is a minor issue but I thought I'd report it.

    Also, I have an idea that will clear clutter from the Vault. Could all submissions that still have a pending tag after one month be moved to a new "Broken" section and out of the appropriate character's BV section? This process could be automated. Blockers for removing the pending tag would include broken links, (possibly no images), or game crashes. Automated messages about the move to the "Broken" section could be sent 1 week, 2 days, and 1 day before the move. This allows the submitter ample time to correct their issues and the hack will still be accessible but not in a way that annoys users. If the submission is rectified after it has been moved, a BV staff member could manually move it to the appropriate section in BV.

    Additionally, the pending tag could be reapplied to broken downloads in the future by BV staff and they will go through the same month long period before being moved. It would also be a good idea to apply the pending tag to current broken downloads if this system is implemented.

    I realize that this would require a lot of coding to accomplish and probably won't be immediately feasible, but I still wanted to voice my opinions.
    Mods are "Pending" for 2 reasons:

    1) They are faulty, yes.

    2) Vault Staff has taken their time to approve them.

    Right now, there's only 7 mods sitting in "Pending", and all of them date from now to 20 days ago. I believe the number isn't cluttering the Vault. In the end, you're free to browse the Vault without having to see the "Pending" Mods. If we go with your suggestion, there'd probably be a few Mods that would be unjustly removed if 2) happens, which is why I don't think it's benefitial to add an automated process to this situation.

    I have an idea: If you guys approve me to be a BV Staff member, and then tell me how to judge if a hack is worth approval, then I can approve or unapprove the hacks, since I'm on here daily, which would mean not long for any hacks at all to be pending.
    Mods sitting in "Pending" at this exact moment are breaking the rules. Before deletion, the submitters are given a good amount of time to fix the issue. We are in no need for more Vault Staff, regardless of them being able to check daily or not.

    TL;DR: Pending leads to deletion after a moderate amount of time from being reported. The Staff is keeping eyes on these Pending mods.
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    Ebola16
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    « Reply #602 on: January 28, 2016, 12:52:43 PM »


    Mods are "Pending" for 2 reasons:

    1) They are faulty, yes.

    2) Vault Staff has taken their time to approve them.

    Right now, there's only 7 mods sitting in "Pending", and all of them date from now to 20 days ago. I believe the number isn't cluttering the Vault. In the end, you're free to browse the Vault without having to see the "Pending" Mods. If we go with your suggestion, there'd probably be a few Mods that would be unjustly removed if 2) happens, which is why I don't think it's benefitial to add an automated process to this situation.
    I should clarify, the removing clutter portion was mainly referring to the many broken links in the vault that have already passed the "pending" period. My idea will help prevent this problem from occurring in the future.

    It's true that the new pending mods are being better reviewed than in the past, but I still think my suggestion would be beneficial to the BV staff and users. Even if a mod was unjustly moved a simple PM to a BV staff member should correct the problem, and the number of unjust moves should be small. The automated removal message can also cite common reasons for removal since the user (likely) overlooked the forum rules. BV staff approval would still be necessary to remove the pending tag but it saves them the time needed to go back and re-review mods before manually deleting them. Correct me if I'm wrong but it should eliminate broken links after being noticed while only adding a small number of false moves. That is also why I wanted a "Broken" category instead of outright deletion. If someone abuses that system by submitting broken hack spam, they can simply be warned.
    « Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 12:57:43 PM by ebola16 » Logged

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    « Reply #603 on: January 28, 2016, 01:26:00 PM »


    We have plans to implement automatic deletion of entries with reports that aren't addressed after a certain period of time. Probably a month.

    I'm planning to send out a mass notice to anyone whose entries would be affected once I have the script developed, but might as well get the word out early.
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    windhunter7
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    « Reply #604 on: January 28, 2016, 01:28:36 PM »


    This won't affect old hacks(i.e. All those model imports from dead users that have working everything except image previews), will it?
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    Ebola16
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    « Reply #605 on: January 28, 2016, 01:32:55 PM »


    We have plans to implement automatic deletion of entries with reports that aren't addressed after a certain period of time. Probably a month.

    I'm planning to send out a mass notice to anyone whose entries would be affected once I have the script developed, but might as well get the word out early.
    Ah, I'm glad to hear that! You should probably compare your plans against mine though to avoid PM hell. I'm trying to make BV more convenient for everyone!

    This won't affect old hacks(i.e. All those model imports from dead users that have working everything except image previews), will it?
    I think it should apply to old hacks with broken downloads. I know a lot of users lost images due to hosting problems so I'm against deleting broken image submissions after approval.
    « Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 01:36:25 PM by ebola16 » Logged

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    « Reply #606 on: January 28, 2016, 01:37:41 PM »


    But if you delete the ones with broken downloads, than how will people on the "Brawl Vault Community Support" pages be able to know which downloads need restoring? It would end up with those mods never to be able to be restored again. Q_Q
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    Ebola16
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    « Reply #607 on: January 28, 2016, 01:39:16 PM »


    But if you delete the ones with broken downloads, than how will people on the "Brawl Vault Community Support" pages be able to know which downloads need restoring? It would end up with those mods never to be able to be restored again. Q_Q
    That is why I suggested a "Broken" section instead of outright deletion. The "Broken" section should be searchable too.
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    « Reply #608 on: January 28, 2016, 02:18:47 PM »


    But if you delete the ones with broken downloads, than how will people on the "Brawl Vault Community Support" pages be able to know which downloads need restoring?

    http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Moderated=-1&Reported=1

    A new category isn't necessary and would just lead to visitors wondering why we still display "broken" entries in the Vault. "Broken" is also too broad a term; if an entry is marked "broken" because of missing previews, but the download link still works, then anyone who finds it will have to read the reports to figure out why the "broken" status was applied because it's not obvious that "broken" would refer to more than just the mod itself.

    Just deleting them is much simpler. If they're broken, they shouldn't be there. If you don't fix your [censored] after we give you plenty of time to do so, it gets deleted.

    And no, there's no way to know why an entry was reported, and even if I created a way, retrofitting it to old reports would be basically impossible. So all reports will be treated equally. We have standards -- which aren't even particularly high! -- and we expect you to meet them, whether that applies to previews, download links, whatever.
    « Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 02:24:55 PM by Vyse » Logged


    windhunter7
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    « Reply #609 on: January 28, 2016, 02:25:31 PM »


    Could we keep the ones with "Broken Images" and stuff like the generic "Freezes"(As it's still playable on Dolphin and such, and can easily be reduced in file-size)? And only delete the broken downloads ones, while somehow still having the links to them, and make sure that they ARE actually broken downloads? Because I've seen a rarity(Uncommon, but still I've seen it) where someone says "Broken Download" JUST because he can't figure out that you click on "Download" after getting to DropBox or MediaFire, or he thinks that the should download the hack. I've also seen people do an even rarer thing of saying "Broken Download" just because the person hates the other person's guts. I only ever observed that like 1 time or something, and I only knew of it because the guy complained somewhere on here about it happening.(Or a topic like this; it was so long ago, I don't even remember)

    Post Merge: January 28, 2016, 02:26:54 PM
    If I remember correctly, I believe it was KJP who it happened to, with his Charizard PSA, I think? It was a long time ago, so I'm having difficulty remembering, but it still happens.
    « Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 02:26:54 PM by windhunter7 » Logged


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    « Reply #610 on: January 28, 2016, 02:33:19 PM »


    Could we keep the ones with "Broken Images" and stuff like the generic "Freezes"(As it's still playable on Dolphin and such, and can easily be reduced in file-size)? And only delete the broken downloads ones, while somehow still having the links to them, and make sure that they ARE actually broken downloads?
    Again, it's not really possible to distinguish types of reports. When you report something, you just write stuff in a text box. The only way to determine what exactly is being reported would be to create a program that "reads" the report, looking for key words like "download," etc., and that's not going to work. I could create a more robust report system that lets you select a reason for reporting with the option of entering extra details, but that's not going to help all the reports that have been submitted already.

    Quote
    A bunch of invalid reasons to report an entry
    Well, that's why you have a month to remove the report. It's not like your things are going to be deleted immediately. And we have systems in place to flag malicious reports so that the people who submit them can be stopped.
    « Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 02:34:24 PM by Vyse » Logged


    windhunter7
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    « Reply #611 on: January 28, 2016, 02:46:00 PM »


    Again, it's not really possible to distinguish types of reports. When you report something, you just write stuff in a text box. The only way to determine what exactly is being reported would be to create a program that "reads" the report, looking for key words like "download," etc., and that's not going to work. I could create a more robust report system that lets you select a reason for reporting with the option of entering extra details, but that's not going to help all the reports that have been submitted already.
    Well, that's why you have a month to remove the report. It's not like your things are going to be deleted immediately. And we have systems in place to flag malicious reports so that the people who submit them can be stopped.
    "

    Or, your program could instead delete hacks of whatever you put the links of, "Hire" me(AKA Volunteering) to read every report on every hack that is not deleted, and then I could PM you the list of hacks that have broken downloads, and you could copy and paste that into the program, and then program another program that can email/PM me any time that a hack is reported, so that I can immediately PM any links to you. Because I really, really don't want all the bookmarks of working downloads that I've made(I have literally thousands of them, of [almost] every single character import in existence, about 30-60% have no previews, and about 10-20% have reports for Broken Previews, even if they already have previews) just "Deleted".(I know that the deleted hacks still have links and are just unsearchable via regular searching; but I made a promise to myself that I would remove any bookmarks to "Deleted" hacks, solely for the purpose that being "Deleted" makes it look like they plagiarized or are outdated[i.e. Bad Rigging or stuff like that] or something like that, and obviously I wouldn't make recolors or anything of a plagiarized thing, nor would I do anything with something with bad rigging when there's a version with better rigging, so I'd do anything to prevent that from happening simply because they're reported for something like no previews.)

    Post Merge: January 28, 2016, 02:52:21 PM
    P.S. I even have 7 bookmarks alone of character imports that I don't know who they are or where they're from that start with the letter X(I have thousands of "Unknown Character Imports"), and I know LOTS of series'.

    So I REALLY don't want those "Deleted" just for having no preview pics, which is quite a few hundred, maybe even a few thousand.
    « Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 02:52:21 PM by windhunter7 » Logged


    Ebola16
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    « Reply #612 on: January 28, 2016, 03:16:07 PM »


    http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Moderated=-1&Reported=1

    A new category isn't necessary and would just lead to visitors wondering why we still display "broken" entries in the Vault. "Broken" is also too broad a term; if an entry is marked "broken" because of missing previews, but the download link still works, then anyone who finds it will have to read the reports to figure out why the "broken" status was applied because it's not obvious that "broken" would refer to more than just the mod itself.

    Just deleting them is much simpler. If they're broken, they shouldn't be there. If you don't fix your [censored] after we give you plenty of time to do so, it gets deleted.

    And no, there's no way to know why an entry was reported, and even if I created a way, retrofitting it to old reports would be basically impossible. So all reports will be treated equally. We have standards -- which aren't even particularly high! -- and we expect you to meet them, whether that applies to previews, download links, whatever.

    Again, it's not really possible to distinguish types of reports. When you report something, you just write stuff in a text box. The only way to determine what exactly is being reported would be to create a program that "reads" the report, looking for key words like "download," etc., and that's not going to work. I could create a more robust report system that lets you select a reason for reporting with the option of entering extra details, but that's not going to help all the reports that have been submitted already.
    Well, that's why you have a month to remove the report. It's not like your things are going to be deleted immediately. And we have systems in place to flag malicious reports so that the people who submit them can be stopped.

    Oh if there is no way to distinguish between types of reports then I'm against Vyse's current idea. It's true that users should keep up with clearing reports but this could lead to inactive user's submissions being deleted for minor but valid issues. And I think I'd rather have a user wonder "why is this Broken section here" than waste significantly more time looking for a deleted submission. I'm fine with renaming "Broken" to something else, perhaps "Unresolved Reports"? This solves the problem of moving clutter from the vault without making functional hacks inaccessible. Deleting all reported items for any reason will cause users to suffer from the OP's laziness.

    I think it would be best to start enforcing requirements for in game images but only delete (or move) accepted hacks if the link is broken.
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    « Reply #613 on: January 28, 2016, 03:27:40 PM »


    snip
    No. The point of programming is to automate tasks so that humans don't have to do them. If we took your approach, there'd be no point in having any program involved at all.

    Furthermore, we're not interested in "grading" reports by severity. We do not want to represent any type of infraction as something you can "get away with." We have rules, and we expect our submitters to follow all of them. If you break any of our rules, get caught, and don't resolve the issue in a timely manner, then you don't respect our rules or standards and we don't want your content on our site.

    And nothing is deleted forever, so anyone who decides they'd like to follow the rules can update their deleted entry and petition to have it reinstated. There's never a point of no return.
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    « Reply #614 on: January 28, 2016, 03:36:22 PM »


    And I think I'd rather have a user wonder "why is this Broken section here"

    And I would not.

    Quote
    than waste significantly more time looking for a deleted submission.

    You know the average user is not going to do that.

    Quote
    I'm fine with renaming "Broken" to something else, perhaps "Unresolved Reports"?

    There's already a way to see active reports without needing to create a new tag for it.

    Quote
    This solves the problem of moving clutter from the vault without making functional hacks inaccessible.

    How, exactly, would it do that? Would we hide entries with the "Broken"/"Unresolved Reports"/"Whatever" tag from search results? Because that's the only way to reduce clutter.

    But here's the thing: if we did that, it would be no different from deleting the entry, because that's all deleting does. It hides the entry from search results. It's still accessible via direct link, and it's never gone forever.

    All a new tag does is create a functional duplicate of "Deleted."
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