BrawlVault: Feedback and Updates

[Large Leader]

What happens if someone uploads content before the original creators do?

And what if the author doesn't want their stuff publically available?

[Ricky (Br3)]

What happens if someone uploads content before the original creator?

And you should prepare for me to complain of theft, because that's exactly what this is.

I'm quite sure that, as with any other BV submission, you can submit it yourself and then request that the duplicate is removed OR request a collab (if that person actually did anything, like a recolor or the likes)

And what if the author doesn't want their stuff publically available?

• Like any other BV submission, permission from original authors is not required to reupload or edit these files.

[Sandfall]

• Former P:M members are free to upload their own work. Starting on the 15th of February, other users will also be able to re-upload those (unedited) works if they are missing from the Vault, with proper credit.

I don't really understand this. Why are you giving us a deadline to upload stolen work? Some of the work isn't even done yet. Please, let the authors release their work if/when they're ready. This wouldn't fly if work was stolen from an individual modder, so I don't see why it's okay just because it was made by the (former) PMDT.

[Large Leader]

I agree with Sandfall, none of that work was officially released to the public. I might not agree with many of the decisions made by the PMDT, but this honestly seems like the equivalent of theft. It isn't right.

[Miacis]

Theft would be releasing work as your own when it isn't, which is why we do not allow files to be posted without proper credit to the original author.
There have been cases where mods that were not shared on the Vault initially were then uploaded by other people for ease of access to everyone. On the other hand, plagiarists and thieves claiming another modder's content as being of their own making have been systematically removed from the Vault. All we are doing is follow up on the principles that were already established years ago. We are not making an exception for the PMDT.

The leaked files, whether you want it or not, are publicly available already. All adding them to the Vault does is making them more accessible to modders to edit or use on their own.

If you still need to work on WIP files that might get re-uploaded by the 15th, you have all the time in the world to do so. Simply do as Ricky just suggested once the hack is complete, and the duplicate will be removed.

[nanobuds]

That's ridiculous, the  original creator should have the final say if their work is uploaded or not. Your old principles are awful and should be changed.

[Miacis]

And yet, they don't.

Requiring "authorial permissions" for submissions or giving creators the right to take down re-uploads (and by that same logic, edits) of their work would add a strong constraint on both active submitters and the staff. It would also give creators a tool to stifle further developments upon their works, which simply goes against the founding principles of KCMM.
We do not believe the gain for original creators outweighs the es it would cause for the rest of the community, and we decided not to go against these ideas with this decision.

All we can offer you is some time to post anything you might have already finished, and the removal of duplicates afterwards. After that, you are free to take it up with the submitters if the situation happens for your own mods, although I would encourage you to be a tad more open-minded and cordial with them.

[Large Leader]

I'm not going to get into a long winded argument, but I don't agree at all. This is theft, whether you like it or not. Theft also includes taking another's property without their permission, and this is exactly what you're allowing.

Just because you steal a sofa and say "Yeah I got it from the person I stole", doesn't justify your actions. It's still wrong. And if this is the way it's been, it really should be challenged.

I can understand making a mod off of someone elses work when descriptions ays "don't mod it" and they don't reply for weeks or months (or if you're extremely patient, years) when you ask for permission. But the PMDT have said over and over that they don't want their files to be spread any more than what's already been done, and they're still saying that.

Allowing 1-2 weeks for authors to respond to PMs of possible modifications of their work is ample time for them to decide whether or not they want it to happen. It wouldn't stifle progress, nor would it feel like stealing. I've never agreed with the rule that you don't need to ask the author if they say "no modding", and I still don't agree with it now.

[nanobuds]

This community acts so entitled. They don't deserve anything that we make because they say so. If we want to release something, it should be on our terms. Just because it exists, it doesnt mean everyone has a right to own it.

[Sandfall]

All we can offer you is some time to post anything you might have already finished, and the removal of duplicates afterwards. After that, you are free to take it up with the submitters if the situation happens for your own mods, although I would encourage you to be a tad more open-minded and cordial with them.

Can you please explain why it's okay to upload stolen work that's not even finished yet?

For example, I have an old copy of Mewtwo2000's Mute City. I stumbled upon it accidentally, and it's not something that was intended for the public yet. I'm more than capable of finishing it myself, but it would be "passable" in its current state. Would it be okay for me to upload the stage to the vault (with proper credit), against the original creator's wishes? I'd imagine the answer would be a resounding "no."

So why then, is it okay to upload stolen PM stuff?

[windhunter7]

Here is my thought, and I don't know if you guys agree or not.

Submitting something and calling it your own is DEFINITELY theft. And submitting any edits of something from the dev build of 3.61 I would consider theft, because the P:M team may not have wanted that leaked, and you're basically editing something stolen. It's like if I were to upload a Smash 3 Sonic recolor, without giving any credit, and then someone else made a recolor of that recolor. That's an analogy of what I mean.

I do think, though, that, since the PM dev team DID release publicly(Not leaked) Project M versions 3.6 and anything earlier, than I'm sure that they're ok with edits to that, with proper credit/collabs, since they were ok with that before with all of the previously-released versions, correct?

[nanobuds]

Oh hey I stole Large_Leader's cell phone and sold it, but it's okay I told the pawn shop that it belonged to him.

[Miacis]

Would it be okay for me to upload the stage to the vault (with proper credit), against the original creator's wishes? I'd imagine the answer would be a resounding "no."

There's unfinished/unpolished content submitted on a daily basis. And there' are re-uploads too. I haven't checked if there are unfinished re-uploads, but I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed. 

[windhunter7]

So who'all does agree with this?

Here is my thought, and I don't know if you guys agree or not.

Submitting something and calling it your own is DEFINITELY theft. And submitting any edits of something from the dev build of 3.61 I would consider theft, because the P:M team may not have wanted that leaked, and you're basically editing something stolen. It's like if I were to upload a Smash 3 Sonic recolor, without giving any credit, and then someone else made a recolor of that recolor. That's an analogy of what I mean.

I do think, though, that, since the PM dev team DID release publicly(Not leaked) Project M versions 3.6 and anything earlier, than I'm sure that they're ok with edits to that, with proper credit/collabs, since they were ok with that before with all of the previously-released versions, correct?

Also, would it be possible to make a thread somewhere or something like that that contains a list of who made what P:M character skins? It would make collabing the creators of the P:M models much easier. And it would involve them getting shared downloads, unlike the typical "Credit to PMDT", which I myself have done because I don't know who's behind what.

[Sandfall]

There's unfinished/unpolished content submitted on a daily basis. And there' are re-uploads too. I haven't checked if there are unfinished re-uploads, but I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed. 

You don't find any moral qualms at all in uploading stolen work without one's consent? Nothing at all? Even if the creator asks you to wait and let them upload it when they're ready (or when it's finished)?
What if someone hacked my dropbox and decided to upload all of my WIP stages? Would that be okay and allowed on the vault?