Ganondorf Partial De-Clone Project

[TheSuperestSmashBros]

Hi all! As all of you ProjectM players well know, the great king of evil Ganondorf has been wonderfully restored to his former Melee glory when it comes to playability and competition. It is also wonderful how much effort has been put into restoring the Melee Ganondorf Alternate costumes by JoeTE and everyone that contributed up until this point. All great works! However, aside from all of that, it is clear it is still a looming dream of MANY brawlers/brawl-vaultees to add a little bit more appropriation to Ganondorf's specific attacking abilities.

The reason we are posting this suggestion to the entire Brawl Vault community is to try and get everyone together to hone in on a majority-wanted and devoutly-made "upgrade" for one of Nintendo's greatest villains...

Many quality attack/animation/sword-exploiting mods have been made available on the Vault since nearly the beginning and with the advent of ProjectM's professional job (on the precision of his former skill set) we, as an entire group, are in a really good place to begin an even more ambitious attempt at a true, high quality "declone" from Captain Falcon while still remaining competitive.

As much as Melee's Ganondorf was a proficient contender as a clone, most smashers will agree that the lack of him having any magically-tinged/sword-wielding special attacks relating to the powers he is established to have in Ocarina of Time/Twilight Princess is a little (if not more so) disappointing.

As mentioned, his attacks/animations/abilities from Melee were (and are thanks to the PMBR) very solid with the majority of that solidity being based around his A-attack game. However, it is our desire to spark a community (PMBR included) effort into further appropriating his "special" B-attacks and incorporating the most simplistic form of a "sword mode" while remaining solid from competitive standpoint.

As we wish to start up an effort/discussion into this, we also wish to suggest some new attack possibilities and limitations. Since most of these remain untested, their competitiveness is unknown. However, we think that some good ideas can arise from debating the potential for new move ideas:

(Down-B) SHOCKWAVE SLAM - usable aerially or while grounded, already very well made by BronzeGreekGod/Amarthe

(B) Grounded (Option 1) LIGHTNING BALL - a chargable electric ball attack (from small & yellow to big & black/green) similar to Mewtwo and Lucario but with a limitation on the charge that will shock Ganondorf  at surpassing full charge if not released.

...or...

(B) Grounded (Option 2) WAVES OF DARKNESS - holding the (B) button causes a swirling purple vortex to emit from either the triforce on the back of Ganondorf's right hand or an outstretched open right-hand palm. This move should freeze/stun enemies in the vicinity of the vortex much alike how characters freeze up during Ganondorf's Final Smash OR alike a Deku Seed stun except with a "stun-limit" dependent on how long opponents are kept in the vortex. In other words, a single press of (B) would emit a single shot of purple vortex ring and only stun an opponent for 1 second while an opponent trapped in the vortex for the full duration would remained stunned for the full duration of a Deku Seed stun. However, to limit its power, the attack cannot be held forever and the vortex slowly fades. Also, if held down for too long, Ganondorf could potentially enter a "broken-shield" state for over-abusing or running out of magic energy***.

(B) Aerial LIGHTNING BALL - the same chargable electric ball (B) attack, but once initiated, keeps you aloft unless attacked. Animation should resemble charging the ball overhead alike the final fight in Ocarina of Time and progress into the two handed position once the ball doubles in size. The ball should have a diagonally-directed downward launch ending with electric splatter and knock back. The direction Ganondorf is facing should be able to change from L to R mid-charge an unlimited number of times. However, it should be that once the ball surpasses the limit of a full charge it shocks Ganondorf if not released and he begins an attack-less free fall.

(Up-B) HOVER RECOVER - an ability to use off the ground/use after jumping that would slowly lift Ganondorf as high as his current Up-B takes him while, afterwards, retaining a brief period of float-time* with little or Zero ability to move left or right. Animations should be alike him rising from the ground during the final fight in Ocarina of Time ending with a cape toss-back "Hmmph". *During the float-time, it should be possible to use all aerial attacks, however, using any attack will end the float. Likewise, using (B) will end the float-time, but will keep Ganondorf aloft for the duration of the ball charge unless attacked or self-shocked.

(Side-B) Aerial & Grounded CHOKE SLAM - should perhaps be retained as it is different enough from Captain Falcon and is a very useful attack.

***More complexly, albeit largely unnecessary, Ganondorf could have some sort of "Magic Energy Counter" that recharges all of his magic abilities slowly over-time.***

Also, as far as we are concerned about any Sword Mode possibly, we feel that the only professional and balanced way to incorporate a Sword Mode is with Eldiran's FitGanonSword mod as it solely uses Ganondorf's original Brawl swing animations. This could very easily be incorporated into Project M's modified Ganondorf as well and we are already beginning to work on this. We also may swap out Ganondorf's walking sword swipe animation with Captain Falcon's as it was changed from Melee to Brawl. Let us know what you think!

Finally, it is also a potential interest of ours to make a minor change to solely the animation/attackbone of Ganondorf's basic (A) smash attack. To make it less "Falconesque" we wouldn't mind a Wind Waker-esque BACK HAND...

If anyone in the great Brawl Vault community is interested in coming together for what may be the most ambitious Ganondorf project yet, do not hesitate to PrivateMessage us or post a reply to let us know what you think!

Thanks again always for everyone's hard and devoted work!

- TheSuperestSmashBros  

P.S. Vote in this related poll if you want! > http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=66701.0

[Large Leader]

So... You want the community to come together to make what you  believe is what Ganon should be.

I try my best not to be harsh... But just name the topic 'An idea to Declone Ganon' instead of 'Community'. The latter implies that we all came to a consensus on the moveset, which we obviously haven't (and might never come to).

[TheSuperestSmashBros]

No no. We are even more curious as to what other people have for suggestions! We just want to see if there are other people that will want to come together and work on something big that unfortunately we cannot do on our own yet. I hope we were clear enough about our suggestions only being suggestions. The main focus here is to discuss possibilities and try to make something together with an even bigger team!

[Large Leader]

What's with the 'we'? At least for now, its just 'you' (or anyone else that you have up your sleeve). I personally have very little interest in Ganon, but you really need to rethink your approach.

Like I said, you can't make a single PSA that everyone agrees on, every person has their own ideas. I still suggest renaming the topic title and your OP.

[TheSuperestSmashBros]

Sorry about any confusion. The "we" is just me and my actual brother who have jointly, for the most part, helped each other out with our submissions and share TheSuperestSmashBros account on the Vault here.

I also know that its, of course, very hard for everyone to agree upon one specific character idea, but for the most part (and not unlike how the projectM team went about crafting respectful homages to characters like Snake and Samus) we want to just see if any people would be interested in getting into working on something as a team for some "greater/eviler good" of Ganondorf playability..

[segwayspeedracer]

I'm curious to see who else is interested in the project. I'm surprised nobody else has buzzed in yet because there was a fire for Ashnigda's alt. sword moveset when it first came out.

This sounds pretty legit, especially since you already made a couple of these attacks in your mod.  But like Zack said, a really good question to ask is how did PMBR 'community' decide on what modifications to add to P:M Samus and Snake? Was it three or four individuals or a lot more people involved? Was it strictly to address competitive weaknesses or a mixture of that plus paying homage to the character? Or simply because the new moves looked cooler?

I don't think many people would be behind seeing certain moves of the PMBR ganondorf being overwritten unless there's obvious reasoning, like why did PMBR decide to favor the knife attack of Snake over his original 'rocket into the ground' attack. Or his dart gun over his rocket launcher? I don't play competitively but I do know it's a helluva lot easier to drop C4 on an opponent when they're asleep, and it makes him a more dominating character horizontally. Maybe you could consult competitive Ganondorfs in P:M and Melee to see what would be intelligent modifications to his fighting style? That and the alt. moveset was a lot of fun but it was total GG OP. It definitely sounds like you would benefit from consulting those well involved in the Ganon/Ike competitive scene.