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Author Topic: Project M Codes  (Read 12956 times)
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    « Reply #15 on: May 05, 2014, 10:50:14 PM »


    lol

    I won't blame the guy. I accidentally said Marth instead of Math once.

    But yeah... this thread is pretty damn tragic.
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    « Reply #16 on: May 05, 2014, 11:15:44 PM »


    SmashKing64, I like the way you did this, though I don't know how long you've been trying to "reverse engineer' the Project M codes, but you did put a lot of effort on this. There was one exception, or a wall as you may call it, and that is to get permission from PMBR to share it to the public. Sadly, you failed miserably. Patience is key, my friend.

    I'd mess around codes and hexadecimals, until I find it fitting for it to be shared to the public. It's the code creators' choice(s) whether or not they would share their codes to the public, or have their codes hidden, but have it be in the public's hands, which I find it confusing, cause sooner or later, they will be found. It's like trying to figure out a 6x6 Rubix Cube.

    Don't get frustrated about this, PMBR, cause everyone at least knows that the codes will be cracked open sooner or later, before you guys make your final decisions. Hate to say it, but this is life. Life will not be fair, and will always never be.
    « Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 11:17:01 PM by sluigi123 » Logged


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    « Reply #17 on: May 06, 2014, 03:55:11 AM »


    http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=203604
    All Project M Codes Released In a TXT File

    I am fairly certain that .txt files are not acceptable file formats on the Vault. You should probably keep the MediaFire Link in the OP and expect this BV submission to be deleted soon.

    Gotta get them internet points bro.

    You still haven't made that thread? People would actually listen to what you say. Instead of hijacking other people's threads to perform your melodrama dance. That's the 5th time already.

    Such a shameful thing that unpopular newbies have to be the one to publish these codes. And to think this could have been easily averted.  Roll Eyes
    « Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 04:21:26 AM by Miacis » Logged

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    « Reply #18 on: May 06, 2014, 04:54:20 AM »


    I really wish people of P:M, preferably the code developers themselves, were to explain what some of these codes do. Many of them look very promising.

    And I really, really wish that instead of hiding features in order to build hype, the development of codes were made more openly. I'm pretty sure more people would get interested in the coding aspect of Brawl hacking if that was the case. More than that, some people might even be willing to be the beta testers of WIP codes.
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    « Reply #19 on: May 06, 2014, 10:32:48 AM »


    SmashKing64, I like the way you did this, though I don't know how long you've been trying to "reverse engineer' the Project M codes, but you did put a lot of effort on this. There was one exception, or a wall as you may call it, and that is to get permission from PMBR to share it to the public. Sadly, you failed miserably. Patience is key, my friend.

    I'd mess around codes and hexadecimals, until I find it fitting for it to be shared to the public. It's the code creators' choice(s) whether or not they would share their codes to the public, or have their codes hidden, but have it be in the public's hands, which I find it confusing, cause sooner or later, they will be found. It's like trying to figure out a 6x6 Rubix Cube.

    Don't get frustrated about this, PMBR, cause everyone at least knows that the codes will be cracked open sooner or later, before you guys make your final decisions. Hate to say it, but this is life. Life will not be fair, and will always never be.

    The only reason that most of the Project M team is still active and making codes is because its a giant community effort to come together and make something. That kind of unity and support doesn't happen in an environment where everyone is randomly doing things.

    Hell, I don't even play Brawl or Project M anymore, but I am still active daily. All of the people that have expressed interest in learning assembly coding, an almost requirement for making codes....all work on Project M for the most part.

    There aren't even resources on KCMM about programming anything, and the PMBR doesn' thave any, because there aren't any. The development of the codes is still primarily done by the individual coders, but we all sit on IRC there is a wealth of knowledge availible through each other.

    If I posted the questions and problems we run into making codes in the PMBR IRC here.....there would be no response. Other than Phantom Wings BrawlEX, what is the latest Ocarina code that has appeared from this community? I'm not trying to hate, I am trying to understand what we supposedly have to gain from opening up our development process?

    The things I see going on on KCMM are:

    BrawlEX [Phantom Wings]
    Work on SSE File Formats [Sammi Husky]
    BrawlBox UTF8 Support [libertyernie]
    SDHC Support [Bero, made for Project M originally]
    BrawlBox2Maya thread [Dantarion]
    « Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 10:46:31 AM by Dantarion » Logged

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    « Reply #20 on: May 06, 2014, 10:48:39 AM »


    Sooner or later sttuff like this will happen
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    « Reply #21 on: May 06, 2014, 10:57:17 AM »


    I find it extremely amusing that you blame KCMM's "lack of unity and support" for the PMBR siphonning most coders out of this community. If you and your buddies have decided to never release anything and only discuss ASM between each other, just so people would be forced to play your mod to enjoy new things, then it's your own damn fault.

    If all our best PSAers disappeared overnight, the PSA forum would go dead really quickly. You're literally one of these PSAers asking: "Why should I come back? Look at this place, how dead it is. I'll stay with my buddies and keep my releases private."
    Never mind the fact an open-source community always progresses much faster and gathers more users than keeping things under wraps. Especially for such selfish reasons.

    Why do you think Kitty Corp rose so much, back when Stack Smash was still around (and MeowMix didn't even exist)? Not because of our blog, which was pretty bad compared to them at the time. But because we published our [censored] and helped people make even more [censored].
    Had we chosen closed-source, we'd have most likely sunk with every other hacking team (and the PMBR would be lacking a lot of talented users who started here).

    As for benefits, you also wouldn't have to come and whine every single time someone releases your private project. It'd be a benefit for us all, I tell ya.
    « Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 11:08:32 AM by Miacis » Logged

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    « Reply #22 on: May 06, 2014, 11:38:36 AM »


    Are you blaming the PMBR for the lack of coders here?

    Because if it wasn't for Project M, I don't think many of us would be driven to code. Lets take Turbo Mode for example (Which was "reverse engineered" according to SonicBrawler, but in reality, its just taken from this file isn't it?)

    Turbo Mode would not exist without Project M. It started off as an IRC joke from a desire to make a April Fools video. It was in theory crafting stages for a while, then I made the 1.0 proof of concept. PMBR tested it, made adjustments, tested it again, etc.

    If I had released that 1.0 proof of concept here, %99.9 of the userbase would have just downloaded it, thrown it into a GCT, and then waited for the next version. Instead, we had people that went through every move with every character

    What are you asking me to publish? No one is trying to learn from anything that has been done, and it shows in the little amount of progress going on here.

    I do remember when KCMM rose, and you guys needed a host. I stepped up to the plate. I remember when I almost got my hosting account taken down because you guys got DDOS'd, then I helped make a backup of the site to transfer it to another host.

    Miacis, link me to the amazing advancements that have been made on KCMM in the past year. Link me to the "Open Source" development and sharing taking place here. If you are so proud of your community, and so upset that the PMBR has a bunch of private development going on, show me the amazing things that are possible through the power of KCMM today.

    Project M hit 500k downloads for version 3.0....that is something I am proud of. OpenSA is a giant database of almost every detail known about all 3 smash games inner workings. That is something that I am proud of. I helped this site stay afloat a long time ago, and thats something I'm proud of too.

    I just wish that you didn't have this attitude where you feel entitled to my work for some reason, or that Open Source means "everything in public", because thats not even close to what it means. BrawlBox is open source, but the amount of people that have worked on it in the past what...5 years can be counted on fingers.

    Why is that? Because people want to use things, not make things. That is why Project M is successful, it is a product that people can use and play, not a DIY collection of random codes.
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    « Reply #23 on: May 06, 2014, 11:55:21 AM »


    I am fairly certain that you don't need to specifically be in a PMBR IRC discussing stuff about a closed-source project to come up with an idea like that. As a matter of fact, there already were individual character codes in SSBM which did very similar things and I doubt they came from anything other than a place where people made random codes for fun.

    As for the rest, you obviously have completely unreasonable expectations. This place has been left with much too little activity and releases to expect sudden ASM masters to come out of the shadows and discuss technicalities with you.
    At this point, you're just using that as an excuse for your usual absenteism.

    And to answer your first question. Yes, I pretty clearly do. That extends to more than just coders, but it's the most obvious case.

    (As for the host part, yes, you stepped up to the plate, then widely disappointed when we needed you most, taking days to answer our mails, and never answering to IMs, while KCMM was down for weeks. The rest of the time, we heard from you every... 4 months? There's a reason we went from "free hosting" to paying our own bills.)

    You sound like you're very proud and feeling entitled to a lot of things. You expect greatness from others and people to respect your decisions. But I honestly don't see you doing much to warrant all those claims.

    tl;dr How 'bout dem topics?
    « Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 12:20:51 PM by Miacis » Logged

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    « Reply #24 on: May 06, 2014, 11:58:57 AM »


    I really wish people of P:M, preferably the code developers themselves, were to explain what some of these codes do. Many of them look very promising.

    And I really, really wish that instead of hiding features in order to build hype, the development of codes were made more openly. I'm pretty sure more people would get interested in the coding aspect of Brawl hacking if that was the case. More than that, some people might even be willing to be the beta testers of WIP codes.


    I just wanted to throw this little tidbit in there but...See, that would work...except not, because it's been done before and it didn't go very well in the end. The reason why they won't do that can be narrowed down into a single name with two syllables.

    Brawl+

    It was exactly that and because it was, there were too many people doing too many different versions of it and too many people in the B+ Team not seeing eye-to-eye on how things should be and constantly switching things around just as soon as an update was released. That and the head of the thing kinda kept vanishing on and off. In the end, they just terminated the mod and ended up moving on the Project M. There's probably quite a few details I'm missing in there, but I do remember seeing all of that happen and one of the PMBR explaining their reasons to me as such.

    I'm sure that if there's anything the PMBR wants to avoid, it's PM becoming the next B+. That's probably why they're so secretive and will probably continue to be until PM is completely done, whether we like it or not.
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    « Reply #25 on: May 06, 2014, 12:45:47 PM »


    Yeah, the nightly Brawl+ releases were awful for so many reasons. No one could have fun playing the game if the next night that change you liked was suddenly gone.
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    « Reply #26 on: May 06, 2014, 01:29:26 PM »


    It does not however change the fact that public releases would be beneficial for the community as a whole. However, if that's not a viable option, make a topic, which you did Dant. That didn't exactly pan out and I can tell you why:

    Most people want to not have to do anything. Yeah, I'm well aware that's not a positive point for KC:MM, but I have a supplementary point to this: The majority of the forum's members are non-participating. They are "Here For Godzilla", all you have to do is replace "Godzilla" with "Hacks" and the unfortunate truth of the matter becomes clear: Most of the forums members are here for mods for their Brawl games and nothing else. Most of them aren't interested in learning to make them, they just want to play then and watch from the sidelines as the rest of us make stuff.

    That's not even including the fact we have a lot of members who are are no longer active in the hacking scene and just take a sort of an "elderly citizen" role to everything. Doing nothing in terms of contributing to the Vault, but giving advice and help sparsely.

    Another problem is we have too many members that need help with things. There are many, many topics I've seen in the Help section that go unanswered. That lack of assistance can be a deal-breaker for quite a lot with Brawl Hacking. There's unfortunately a lot of necessary hand-holding that needs to be done before anyone these days can stand up on their own, because hacking has become as advanced as it has.

    For those of us with a lot of experience in this scene, things are relatively easy, that's not so for the newbies, many of whom have no experience with anything we use and are learning things from the ground up.

    Expecting people to be as good as we all are at our respective specialties from the get go is too unrealistic, unfeasible, and far too high-shooting an expectation to place on new members, if we keep setting the bar higher and higher, we'll get less and less rising stars in the community. Expecting them to learn every single thing on their own will just drive people away.
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    « Reply #27 on: May 06, 2014, 02:16:22 PM »


    So... There's absolutely no point insulting the KCMM community for this.

    However... There is something I don't like with the person who posted the PM gct. I don't like the simple fact that he TOTALLY disrespected the work of the PMBR by releasing these codes for 2 reasons:

    1 - You didn't make these codes. That's something the PMBR made (i don't know the specific names of each one, sorry), and even though you like this stuff, you're not supporting them by doing that and you just show how shameful you are.

    2 - More shame ahead: You didn't even FIND these codes in the PM gct YOURSELF.
    You asked them to someone who wanted to know about what PM was doing and were interested by this coding. So, you're bringing shame upon an entire community, makes another one fussing even more, and brings more shame to yourself.

    If you wanted these codes, fine! Keep them for yourself. Call your IRL friends (if you have any, but I don't give a [censored] if you have or not) and have fun with them. But why would you release them AND make a thread about it?! Dammit!

    - You wanted internet points?

    Granted! I'm sure the people who downloaded it were glad, and surely they were, who can blame them?

    - KCMM Lurkers Downloads?

    Granted! Not for long, though.

    - Having the PMBR notice how much you steal their work?

    Granted! And now we have a new thread full of flamming and all kind of [guesswhat].

    Congrats, man. You won. There should be an award for you, but I'm hesitating between Damn Uninteresting Noob or Total Noob Leaker.
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    « Reply #28 on: May 06, 2014, 02:58:00 PM »


    5 new replies above mine, oh well. I'll post it anyway.




    Sure, a huge chunk of the community just downloads [censored] and plays. That'd be, let's say, around 75% of the community. Let's leave it at that.

    But there are people willing to waste their time into making their own things. If we include both the noobs who make minutes-worth-of-effort recolors and the users with carefully crafted hacks all together, that would probably sum up to around 25% of the community.

    This data, keep in mind, is build on basically guesses. Guesses based on the number of members registered on KC-MM, members who make more posts, members that never ever posted (probably just wanted an account), etc. The boards staff probably has more accurate data.

    This 25% of the community is still a somewhat large group. These are all of the users who have a vault and the users at Smashboards who make hacks and don't have a vault.

    All of these have taken a time to learn something they probably had never thought of to modify their game to their tastes. Myself included. Mewtwo2000, SDoom, Nanobuds. Hell, even you too, probably? All of us have begun to learn these to add, to our own games, the things that we wanted and had in mind.

    The thing is, not everyone likes or wants the same things. And if everyone were to modify their games with only what they had the most interest in, we'd be a bunch of people with very little modifications to the game, if any. Because nobody has the time to dive deep into every possible aspect of hacking. We go straight to what is in our interests, learn and create.

    It is, though, by the efforts of everyone doing this little scratch in the surface of knowlegde and sharing it with the others that we manage to go deeper into the unknown, with more and more discoveries to be appreciated by all.

    It is because we are a community that we have achieved anything at all. Ask Kryal if Brawlbox was conceived with only his own sheer intelligence.

    "If I had released that 1.0 proof of concept here, %99.9 of the userbase would have just downloaded it, thrown it into a GCT, and then waited for the next version. Instead, we had people that went through every move with every character"

    Sure, look at BrawlEx. That's exactly what happened. Like, for real. Phantomwings released an awesome code with some rels, everyone downloaded that and everyone was happy, right?

    No!

    It was with BrawlEx being public that we managed to find talented users who, in their interest of pushing it further what was possible, developed programs for it, packs for starters to setup upon, tutorials for everyone to understand and modify the game to their tastes, new modules compatible with it...

    To my eyes, these users, the users who share their knowledge with anyone regardless of who they are or what they are going to do with it is what makes me PROUD of this community.

    What got me into brawl hacking, mainly, was how Mewtwo2000 and many other users were willing to help those who needed help by telling them how to do things the right way, even to someone with so little knowledge such as I was back then.

    And no, telling someone "here's all the important raw data we have, go read" ISN'T teaching anybody. The average person doesn't even know what floating points are. I greatly appreciate what you've done with others on OpenSA, but without minimal basis, the very interesting knowledge avaliable there is almost useless.

    And before I finish, I'm not even defending SonicBrawler, what he did wasn't correct or ethic even with the most broad interpretations. Go ahead and bind him to a rock, for an eagle to daily feed on his liver. It's your right as a developer. I'll completely approve.
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    « Reply #29 on: May 06, 2014, 03:08:30 PM »


    And even without the whole teaching aspect, simply releasing [censored] is probably helping more than dumping raw data.

    You don't go to a native, dump bricks in front of his hut and expect him to build a brick house. You build that bloody house yourself, show him how [censored]ing great it is to live in bricks, and then eventually he'll go and give a try at building.
    Similarly, people got into vertexing when Cloud happenned. People got into PSAing when Phoenix Mario came out. Etc

    People who release stuff create the drive for others to improve. People who don't release anything give others a very good reason to not give a [censored] about their craft.
    « Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 03:17:25 PM by Miacis » Logged

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