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Author Topic: Unofficial Project M Ridley PSA - Version 2.1 released.  (Read 73624 times)
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« Reply #90 on: January 28, 2015, 12:08:04 PM »


Even then, it most likely won't give me enough freedom with the animations. So, i'd better use more-or-less untouched models like model im using for Ridley.

I guess...
Either way, I wish you the best of luck on all of your projects. Cheesy
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    « Reply #91 on: January 29, 2015, 01:22:32 PM »


    Some minor updates on the model:

    Image is a bit outdated (eyes should be glowing like they did before), but not enough to require getting updated. As you can see, he now has some kind of rimlighting and speculars or whatever those are called. Not sure what it actually is. Just ported his Other M materials and shaders to this model and edited it to work properly in Brawl. All recolors received this updated model and its most noticable on Firebrand recolor since he has less details on his skin. I also solved one issue with Ridley when he is thrown - before, his tail would go completly straight like a stick and it looked distracting and unnatural. I tried to pose his tail for his default pose, but only base of the tail was affected while everything else remained stiff. So, i decided to MOVE his tail bones around and now it doesn't looks so stiff. It still doesn't moves, but at least it looks better and natural. Other than that, there isn't much to tell about. Things are getting really boring.
    « Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 01:31:46 PM by Ridley » Logged


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    « Reply #92 on: January 29, 2015, 01:33:52 PM »


    Some minor updates on the model:
    ... Things are getting really boring.

    Why is it boring and can anyone help? O:
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    « Reply #93 on: January 29, 2015, 01:39:39 PM »


    Why is it boring and can anyone help? O:
    Because all animations are done, all coding is here, working properly and everything. This means that all i can do is wait for testers' feedback so i can fix balancing issues and, worst part of it all, searching for solution for one bug/glitch/whatever that crashes the game on 2nd result screen. I will ignore it for first release if i won't be able to fix it before 7th February. But i can't ignore it for 2nd release and beyond that.



    So, drogoth tried to help me with Meta Ridley alt, but he had issues with 3ds Max, so, he couldn't go very far. Could anyone finish his work? Its very simple - just rig 2 models' parts to Ridley's model, with only minor editing required for them to fit.
    « Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 01:42:42 PM by Ridley » Logged


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    « Reply #94 on: January 29, 2015, 01:56:08 PM »


    I've never rigged a model before, but have you tried seeing if the animations at the end results screen are the problem? (swap them out for something else to test or for nothing for now)
    Animations can crash the game after all.

    '__'
    *spews out useless advice*
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    « Reply #95 on: January 29, 2015, 02:04:57 PM »


    I've never rigged a model before, but have you tried seeing if the animations at the end results screen are the problem? (swap them out for something else to test or for nothing for now)
    Animations can crash the game after all.

    '__'
    *spews out useless advice*

    Animations are not the problem (because then, it would happen on 1st result screen when certain victory animation was used or on "no contest" result screen with clapping animation instead of being on 2nd match's result screen). Its because of the model (i tried using Pit's model and it didn't crashed for 5 matches, probably it wouldn't crash at all, but i stopped at 5), but there is nothing really special about it.

    Post Merge: January 30, 2015, 07:29:13 PM
    So, Ridley received something that he should have no matter what. And its gliding:

    Its fastest one out of them all, can be cancelled with aerial attack like other glides (though only FAir can be used since BAir stops him from going forward and NAir is too slow) and puts him into helpless state only if he ends it by pressing B or going high enough. His glide attack is overhead swipe that works like his FAir (just easier to hit with and has higher knockback). Since i couldn't make him use it like it can be done in vBrawl (by holding jump button while jumping in mid-air), i had to replace aerial Side B. This is a lot more useful as both recovery and movement option, so, its not a bad choice. But im sure it will require balancing first.
    « Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 07:29:14 PM by Ridley » Logged


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    « Reply #96 on: February 06, 2015, 11:26:10 AM »


    Well, here we are. Release date is set to 7th-8th February. There are still some bugs left, even one that crashes the game, but i can't do anything about those. No FS eyes yet. Not that he really needs those. Anyway, there will be final showcase of it on 7th February on twitch. Here is link to it: http://www.twitch.tv/framezerogaming Guy streaming it is FrameZeroGaming/SoulOfSmash, who is also one of the testers. He also made another showcase video of now a bit outdated version (aerial firebreath's trajectory nerfed from spike to 45 degree up, added glide, etc):
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gp3kqUw_s8" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gp3kqUw_s8</a>

    After that, mostly attempts at making flight mode work as i wanted it to work, balancing and very noticable animation improvement will remain. Oh, and Meta Ridley.
    « Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 11:43:03 AM by KingJigglypuff » Logged


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    « Reply #97 on: February 06, 2015, 01:03:58 PM »


    Well, here we are. Release date is set to 7th-8th February. There are still some bugs left, even one that crashes the game, but i can't do anything about those. No FS eyes yet. Not that he really needs those. Anyway, there will be final showcase of it on 7th February on twitch. Here is link to it: http://www.twitch.tv/framezerogaming Guy streaming it is FrameZeroGaming/SoulOfSmash, who is also one of the testers. He also made another showcase video of now a bit outdated version (aerial firebreath's trajectory nerfed from spike to 45 degree up, added glide, etc):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gp3kqUw_s8#ws
    After that, mostly attempts at making flight mode work as i wanted it to work, balancing and very noticable animation improvement will remain. Oh, and Meta Ridley.
    this looks very good! Very impressive! Only thing i see wrong is the down air, which by the looks of it is very spammable, i suggest making him go abit lower than usual each time it hits. Dont Get me wrong, Its good, but a little OP. Also hos size is arguable, but the slowness makes up to it i guess. But overall, this is by far the best Psa ive seen in a while. Nice Job!

    Post Merge: February 06, 2015, 01:10:51 PM
    Oh by the way. I also think his weight is too light. I know he got Wings and all that, but look at charizard. I dunno, i feel he Should be heavier.
    « Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 01:10:51 PM by SouthCraft » Logged


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    « Reply #98 on: February 06, 2015, 01:42:29 PM »


    this looks very good! Very impressive! Only thing i see wrong is the down air, which by the looks of it is very spammable, i suggest making him go abit lower than usual each time it hits. Dont Get me wrong, Its good, but a little OP. Also hos size is arguable, but the slowness makes up to it i guess. But overall, this is by far the best Psa ive seen in a while. Nice Job!

    Post Merge: February 06, 2015, 01:10:51 PM
    Oh by the way. I also think his weight is too light. I know he got Wings and all that, but look at charizard. I dunno, i feel he Should be heavier.
    DAir can't be cancelled (so, if used off-stage and it misses, Ridley is doomed), you can't move in any way other than just going down during it and has higher than average landing lag. Its spammable only if you're lucky enough to hit opponent, he is in turbo mode or if opponent is large. Even then, it will most likely fail on 3rd hit.

    Charizard is fat and comes from a rather cartoonish franchise, which means things like laws of physics don't really apply there when getting burned doesn't kills ice pokemons. Ridley is from a more realistic franchise (well, there is its own space magic, but overall, it is realistic) and is a lot thinner, even in Other M.
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    « Reply #99 on: February 06, 2015, 02:17:21 PM »


    Smash isn't realistic though. And Ridley canonically is much larger than Charizard. But that doesn't mean he should fall quickly. If you really want, you can just have him be slightly lighter than Charizard.

    Not to mention, my previous complaint still stands. He seems to have all the benefits of both heavyweight and lightweight characters, yet none of the drawbacks. Being a big target means nothing if you can easily have minimal weaknesses. Long reach, multiple jumps, multiple strong spikes, a reflector, projectile, etc.

    And just because you can't cancel the Down Air, that doesn't mean it can't be OP. It's currently very spammable. Same goes with the Up Air from what I see. My other gripe with too many spikes also stands.

    I've been working with character movesets for a little over 4 years. I know what I'm talking about when I bring up these problems. If you want a more in depth and more informed analysis, then feel free to send me your current stuff for me to test.
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    « Reply #100 on: February 06, 2015, 02:54:42 PM »


    Smash isn't realistic though. And Ridley canonically is much larger than Charizard. But that doesn't mean he should fall quickly. If you really want, you can just have him be slightly lighter than Charizard.

    Not to mention, my previous complaint still stands. He seems to have all the benefits of both heavyweight and lightweight characters, yet none of the drawbacks. Being a big target means nothing if you can easily have minimal weaknesses. Long reach, multiple jumps, multiple strong spikes, a reflector, projectile, etc.

    And just because you can't cancel the Down Air, that doesn't mean it can't be OP. It's currently very spammable. Same goes with the Up Air from what I see. My other gripe with too many spikes also stands.

    I've been working with character movesets for a little over 4 years. I know what I'm talking about when I bring up these problems. If you want a more in depth and more informed analysis, then feel free to send me your current stuff for me to test.
    Charizard isn't much lighter than Bowser (just by 8 ), so, its may not work well.

    He has their drawbacks - he is large, he is light (for his size) and he is floaty. Mewtwo had same issues in Melee (and poor movement, but it got quickly fixed with 3rd best wavedash). He didn't went far with them. That is just his stats. His attacks have lag issues (Down Smash has the longest reach, but its very slow; his Side Smash has little amount of knockback, but has long start up that makes it very predictable; Up Smash is fastest smash attack he has and even then, hitboxes on it last for 6 frames and don't properly work sometimes) and his range doesn't helps much when only certain part of his tail is worth anything. His projectile is slow and weak (it deals some damage, but not much knockback), his reflector slows him down noticably and disables L-Cancelling (something that is a major drawback in game like PM) and his spikes are unreliable (see below). I've done some balancing work since last video.

    His remaining spikes (firebreath spike was removed) aren't very reliable now though. NAir has long start up and even then can hit with sourspot, resulting in very low damage (3%) and knockback and DAir spike is even less reliable than PM Wario since hitbox is smaller on it, landing lag is a lot longer (60 frames by default) and it will end only once he hits the ground or he hits opponent. Compare that to Marth's DAir (which has higher chance of hitting with the tip and is a lot faster), Falco's DAir and Shine and DK's FAir (which is a lot stronger than Ridley's spikes).

    UAir may be spammable though.

    Ok then. Will be done in few minutes. Its better to test against real players though. Keep in mind that its only for PM and PM is a lot different from Brawl.
    « Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 02:56:59 PM by Ridley » Logged


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    « Reply #101 on: February 06, 2015, 08:09:55 PM »


    After a bit of testing in Project M, here are my updated thoughts.

    -The falling speed wasn't as bad as I made it out to be, but I still think he should fall a tad faster.
    -The air mobility is more of the issue here. Ridley currently is just as maneuverable in the air as Jigglypuff...I feel his air mobility should be nerfed a good amount.
    -Some attacks are too fast, while some are too slow.
    -Forward Air and Up Air should have more Frames during their endlag while also reducing the damage for a bit.
    -Down Smash should be overall faster.
    -Side Smash has way too much startup.
    -Neutral Air is a tad slow. I would speed it up a bit and remove the spike. Or make it weaker.
    -Down Air could be sped up slightly, but make the spike weaker to compensate.
    -It appears I found a weakness on Ridley (which is a good thing). His said weakness lies in his tail attacks. They rely a lot on the sweetspot. The tip has really high damage, but the other parts of the tail are quite weak (doing 3 damage at best).
    -He appears to be too bright on certain stages.
    -His Jab combo should be sped up.
    -I feel his Side Tilt animation should be reworked a bit.
    -He can score KOs quite early. His non-Smash attacks should have their knockback reduced.
    -In my opinion, the Down Special should have a cooldown timer once it has run out.
    -The Ground Side Special animation should be reworked a fair amount.
    -The healing should be removed from the grab attack.

    After taking a look at your Ridley, it definitely meets my standards (with a few issues that I can overlook). I'll be sure to add your Ridley to my custom Brawl (with a few custom edits). All I feel is needed is a Super Metroid (Brawl) alt to put the icing on the cake. Though I could take a look at your custom MoM Meta Ridley for you to get the rig stuff set up possibly.
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    « Reply #102 on: February 07, 2015, 06:49:21 PM »


    After a bit of testing in Project M, here are my updated thoughts.

    -The falling speed wasn't as bad as I made it out to be, but I still think he should fall a tad faster.
    -The air mobility is more of the issue here. Ridley currently is just as maneuverable in the air as Jigglypuff...I feel his air mobility should be nerfed a good amount.
    -Some attacks are too fast, while some are too slow.
    -Forward Air and Up Air should have more Frames during their endlag while also reducing the damage for a bit.
    -Down Smash should be overall faster.
    -Side Smash has way too much startup.
    -Neutral Air is a tad slow. I would speed it up a bit and remove the spike. Or make it weaker.
    -Down Air could be sped up slightly, but make the spike weaker to compensate.
    -It appears I found a weakness on Ridley (which is a good thing). His said weakness lies in his tail attacks. They rely a lot on the sweetspot. The tip has really high damage, but the other parts of the tail are quite weak (doing 3 damage at best).
    -He appears to be too bright on certain stages.
    -His Jab combo should be sped up.
    -I feel his Side Tilt animation should be reworked a bit.
    -He can score KOs quite early. His non-Smash attacks should have their knockback reduced.
    -In my opinion, the Down Special should have a cooldown timer once it has run out.
    -The Ground Side Special animation should be reworked a fair amount.
    -The healing should be removed from the grab attack.

    After taking a look at your Ridley, it definitely meets my standards (with a few issues that I can overlook). I'll be sure to add your Ridley to my custom Brawl (with a few custom edits). All I feel is needed is a Super Metroid (Brawl) alt to put the icing on the cake. Though I could take a look at your custom MoM Meta Ridley for you to get the rig stuff set up possibly.

    Thanks for feedback and i'll send files for that one then. Materials can be left alone though. Classic alt would definitely be great.


    Here it is: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=207676 Instructions included.

    ...god, i always wanted him to be playable, but never thought that his true playable 3D debut would be thanks to me. Well, there was one other Ridley mod, but model on it was horrible and i don't think anyone can really argue with that.
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    « Reply #103 on: February 07, 2015, 08:38:26 PM »


    If I may, I'd like to come out of the woodwork to express some concerns about this character. I'd like to preface this by saying I'm very impressed by what you've done with Ridley. Clearly a lot of love was poured into this kit. That being said, there are some issues worth addressing here and there. Hopefully this doesn't come across as too blunt.
    • As it stands right now, this is a campy character. Giving anyone the ability to fly extremely quickly while they have the longest range projectile in the game promotes a passive, run-away playstyle. The fact you can cancel out their lag by landing like Falco can only adds to this. These aren't just lasers, either. These are huge fireballs that do tons of damage as far as projectiles are concerned. Their range needs to be seriously reigned in, and using them should take away your ability to move freely.
    • I'm not really sure what the balancing philosophy behind back air was. It's quick, absurdly powerful, has little ending lag, and gives you a guaranteed follow up at most percents. Really, it's entirely too polarizing. There's no real reason to want to approach with any other move. Given PM 3.5's aim to move away from easy or guaranteed combos, this move should honestly be reconsidered as a whole.
    • Gliding with this character is kind of disgusting. It's just so blindingly fast that you're probably not going to have any trouble recovering or getting around characters that need space like Samus (how fitting). I'd probably just make the speed dependant on how many jumps you have left and take the rest away, but obviously I'm not a designer. It just feels very out of place considering how nerfed recoveries became in PM 3.5.
    And just some general "feel" things, it seems like he can't l-cancel any of his aerials unless the actual hitbox is out, being most apparent on his neutral aerial. Aerials like forward air and up air feel like they should have more "follow-through" on them, if that makes any sense (compare Charizard's fair to Ridley's). Also a lack of a dash dance makes me sad. ): There might be other issues, but I'm sure others will express them eventually. Despite all that, this is one of the most quality mods out there. Well done.
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    « Reply #104 on: February 07, 2015, 08:58:41 PM »


    If I may, I'd like to come out of the woodwork to express some concerns about this character. I'd like to preface this by saying I'm very impressed by what you've done with Ridley. Clearly a lot of love was poured into this kit. That being said, there are some issues worth addressing here and there. Hopefully this doesn't come across as too blunt.
    • As it stands right now, this is a campy character. Giving anyone the ability to fly extremely quickly while they have the longest range projectile in the game promotes a passive, run-away playstyle. The fact you can cancel out their lag by landing like Falco can only adds to this. These aren't just lasers, either. These are huge fireballs that do tons of damage as far as projectiles are concerned. Their range needs to be seriously reigned in, and using them should take away your ability to move freely.
    • I'm not really sure what the balancing philosophy behind back air was. It's quick, absurdly powerful, has little ending lag, and gives you a guaranteed follow up at most percents. Really, it's entirely too polarizing. There's no real reason to want to approach with any other move. Given PM 3.5's aim to move away from easy or guaranteed combos, this move should honestly be reconsidered as a whole.
    • Gliding with this character is kind of disgusting. It's just so blindingly fast that you're probably not going to have any trouble recovering or getting around characters that need space like Samus (how fitting). I'd probably just make the speed dependant on how many jumps you have left and take the rest away, but obviously I'm not a designer. It just feels very out of place considering how nerfed recoveries became in PM 3.5.
    And just some general "feel" things, it seems like he can't l-cancel any of his aerials unless the actual hitbox is out, being most apparent on his neutral aerial. Aerials like forward air and up air feel like they should have more "follow-through" on them, if that makes any sense (compare Charizard's fair to Ridley's). Also a lack of a dash dance makes me sad. ): There might be other issues, but I'm sure others will express them eventually. Despite all that, this is one of the most quality mods out there. Well done.
    Neutral B was made land-cancellable that unintentionally. I'll try to look up whats wrong with that. Once it will be done, it won't need anything else to be fixed about it (its pretty slow and its done slower than any other singe unchargable projectile). I will fix glide since it is too fast right now, but i won't decrease its speed by too much. Just 30%. BAir needs a slight damage nerf, but it needs to be sweetspotted to be useful, like Marth' attacks (but with sourspot being useless).
    I made them like that so they would be fast since i wanted to make him obviously better in the air. Giving FAir more end lag will most likely make WoP impossible.
    I don't know why there is no dash dance.
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