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Author Topic: The Real Reason the Community is Dying.  (Read 67268 times)
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Xaturati0n
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    « Reply #45 on: February 20, 2015, 05:55:04 AM »


    Don't fix what ain't broken.

    The layout and color scheme of the forum is fine. Would be neat to have themes, but I don't know the limitations of the engine KCMM is running on.

    Smashboards has been pretty dark, but they have skins (or don't. Can't remember. Know the pre-rehaul did).
    Yeah, i would love themes. Sometimes it feels dark and boring.
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    « Reply #46 on: February 20, 2015, 07:57:05 AM »


    this is not a good place to say what I really think about this community, but yeah, this thread is pretty right
    I recognize myself I am very bad at taking criticism of my hacks and I only improve at something when I actually feel like doing it; but the thing we have to point out is that as Velen said, people barely helps and the request subforum is actually useless
    my personal reasons to dont help others very much and dont take requests is that if I took the time for that, I would have no time to work in my own projects, and afterall it may sound selfish, but the most important thing to do are own projects
    I agree with the part about criticism, sometimes the gaming community is never satisfied with our hacks, but I guess you cant satisfy everyone, but for the most part I really love this site, this site is the reason I got inspired to hack ssbb, without brawl vault I would have never been as good as I am without the help of others on this site, so if you ask me i love this site and dont really plan on leaving any time soon, keep those who are willing stay close.
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    « Reply #47 on: February 20, 2015, 03:01:28 PM »


    I agree with the part about criticism, sometimes the gaming community is never satisfied with our hacks, but I guess you cant satisfy everyone, but for the most part I really love this site, this site is the reason I got inspired to hack ssbb, without brawl vault I would have never been as good as I am without the help of others on this site, so if you ask me i love this site and dont really plan on leaving any time soon, keep those who are willing stay close.
    well, people are not satusfied with hacks for 2 different reasons:
    one can be because they dont know the character or the source of the character, (some people dont like to add a hack of a character they has no idea of who is it) and this happens to me frequentlyw ith my 2hu/animu imports lol
    the other reason could be the hack's quality, now adays is very hard for a vertex or a texture to be VERY popular and liked, even model imports themselves can be taken down because of its quality, when they are half-assed-ly made or when it is actually greatly made, this factor can even make people like a model import even if they dont know who the character is lol
    I dont really share that feeling of yours tho, Im not here because of the hacks, actually is strange when other people's hacks gets in my sd; but well Im no one to judge, afterall as I said I cant take cricism, the last time I got one, I think I took the DL down and ranted in my fb page about it  lol
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    « Reply #48 on: February 20, 2015, 04:25:42 PM »


    well, people are not satusfied with hacks for 2 different reasons:

    I don't think the problems plaguing the community have much has to do with general hack quality.

    There's always been poorly done hacks, and there's nothing wrong with it. When you first start out, you don't know much, so you shouldn't be expected to be some great hackamatician.

    (Part of) the problem lies with users continually pulling excuses for why their hacks aren't up to par. Innovate! Use creative/artistic freedom! Try a different method! Experiment! Do anything but release your work saying "I'm aware of these problems, but..."

    people barely helps

    It's the other way around; people barely learn.

    For me, I honestly don't mind helping people if they're actually willing to take my advice. I think it's great when people learn, in fact, I wish I could help more people make more interesting and creative mods. The problem is, what's the point of taking the time to do that if nobody's going to utilize or retain the information you give them?

    For example, Beyond's model importing thread. He started it, but understandably couldn't finish because he was busy with other things. I continued it for him, finishing and updating it with several sections of extra information such as how to set up the model for each animation type and whatnot. I have no idea how long it took Beyond to start that tutorial, but it took a good chunk of my time to update it like I did, and I know that a lot of users use it to learn about model importing, which I am grateful for.

    But just recently, a user I won't name posted that they wanted a "FULL, comprehensive, step by step guide to importing a character." Sooooo... did they even LOOK in the model tutorials board? They didn't even need to search; the guide Beyond and I worked on is PINNED. There are several tutorials posted here on different aspects of model importing. Do they want somebody to come to their house and hold their hand? Or just make their mod for them while they sit and watch?

    For reasons like this, I usually have to gauge whether or not I should involve myself with helping a user based on how they act on the boards. If they're open to collecting and effectively applying all information they can find, then I'll be glad to tell them what I know. But if they're clearly ignorant of existing information and unwilling to the research and work necessary on their own to apply it to their specific situation, forget it.

    Not to mention that often if you help somebody do something specific once (usually one-on-one), they'll keep coming back for more help with specific tasks. People with knowledge on your problem may be able to help you, but that doesn't mean they'll always be available to do so.

    In my experience, helping most people like that is actually more trouble than it's worth, if it's worth anything at all.

    The solution to this problem isn't simple, though. I can't say I have any ideas on how to fix it.

    my personal reasons to dont help others very much and dont take requests is that if I took the time for that, I would have no time to work in my own projects

    This, along with what I said above, and the fact that maybe nobody knows the answer probably contribute to the perceived lack of help on the boards. Modding is just a free hobby, nobody's obligated to do anything. I think if you truly like modding, you'll have the determination to figure out your problems somehow.
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    « Reply #49 on: February 20, 2015, 08:47:42 PM »


    well, people are not satusfied with hacks for 2 different reasons:
    one can be because they dont know the character or the source of the character, (some people dont like to add a hack of a character they has no idea of who is it) and this happens to me frequentlyw ith my 2hu/animu imports lol
    the other reason could be the hack's quality, now adays is very hard for a vertex or a texture to be VERY popular and liked, even model imports themselves can be taken down because of its quality, when they are half-assed-ly made or when it is actually greatly made, this factor can even make people like a model import even if they dont know who the character is lol
    I dont really share that feeling of yours tho, Im not here because of the hacks, actually is strange when other people's hacks gets in my sd; but well Im no one to judge, afterall as I said I cant take cricism, the last time I got one, I think I took the DL down and ranted in my fb page about it  lol
    lol most of my hacks are characters that I made/OC characters because I'm creative and likes making my own characters lol, and I feel the same way about using other people's hack unless it's a hack that I don't know how to make or is just too lazy lol XD
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    « Reply #50 on: February 20, 2015, 09:07:56 PM »


    You want to know the real reason the community is dying? As someone who has fallen to being a constant observer of what goes on in the forums. I think I can come out with a few reasons.

    It's not just that people make things some consider half-assed. It's not just people being download whores. It's not people making packs of recolors or [censored] like that. It's not just the fact that many people who started have gone on to other projects. It's not even people using other people's things to make things of their own, and it's certainly not because nobody is interested anymore.

    Things are still being made, not all of them are great or as awesome as some things were when this community was at it's peak. The point is they are still being made, and people still are doing modded Brawl, if downloads being made on anything is any indication at all.

    It's because this community is not as friendly as we like to make yourselves think, it's also because so many of our members never interact with other, more active members, never make posts, make themselves known beyond the vault, never allow the community to critique, foster and nurture their ability to create. It's also because too many out there think they could never do what we can do now, and compounding on that is that the atmosphere of the community has become one of jaded cynicism, no matter how much we blind ourselves to that truth.

    The past hostilities between a certain project and the community poisoning things further not withstanding, this community is choking itself to death by the way many people operate and think around here. We often look down on people who do things we think are dumb, or because we think they didn't put enough effort into something, or because we hold newbies to this stuff to unreasonable higher standards than we did to ourselves and others when this community was just starting out a few years ago.

    Nobody is going to be like myself, Pik, M2000, Beyond, SDo0m, TurboChaos, among many others in a day, a week, or maybe even a month. Getting better takes time, patience and commitment, but nobody is going to want to make any of those three things in a community where people are told to read tutorials or offers, more often than not, little meaningful help to other members. When people ask for help, they want to interact with someone who is knowledgable in what they are asking about, not a referral to some tutorial. Yeah, it means more questions for more experienced people, but it's also one of the reasons why so many never complete a mod of their own. Nobody does or says anything to galvanize the will of people wanting to get into the modding game.

    Also as a whole, we've stopped fostering actual, productive creativity. As awesome as it is that we have Model Importing, look what it's mostly reduced us to: importing models from other games. The only one left who was doing vertexing mods, was a guy named Tyshy, and his stuff is of quality we used to be amazed by back when Vertexing Mods were reaching the middle of their climb to popularity. It's not even considered great by our standards now, but he's still making creative things regardless of what we think of what he creates or has created as whole.

    Then there's the fact there are so few people who are proficient at Texturing and creating UV Maps for mods. It's another one of the reasons why so many new mods are little more than recolors, nothing more. Nobody has the knowledge. Nobody is taking things further. I may not be one to talk in this regard, having been inactive for so long, but that's far aside the point I'm making here.

    Nobody is being engaging with other people. We're basically slapping words on a board without trying to have any meaningful interactions with our words and it's stifling. It's killing our community.

    That needs to change. Badly, if there is to be any hope of this community being any more than a dying husk of what it used to be.


    also thanks I agree that a lot of people no longer values the thing that was valued back then

    Post Merge: February 20, 2015, 09:13:34 PM
    You want to know the real reason the community is dying? As someone who has fallen to being a constant observer of what goes on in the forums. I think I can come out with a few reasons.

    It's not just that people make things some consider half-assed. It's not just people being download whores. It's not people making packs of recolors or [censored] like that. It's not just the fact that many people who started have gone on to other projects. It's not even people using other people's things to make things of their own, and it's certainly not because nobody is interested anymore.

    Things are still being made, not all of them are great or as awesome as some things were when this community was at it's peak. The point is they are still being made, and people still are doing modded Brawl, if downloads being made on anything is any indication at all.

    It's because this community is not as friendly as we like to make yourselves think, it's also because so many of our members never interact with other, more active members, never make posts, make themselves known beyond the vault, never allow the community to critique, foster and nurture their ability to create. It's also because too many out there think they could never do what we can do now, and compounding on that is that the atmosphere of the community has become one of jaded cynicism, no matter how much we blind ourselves to that truth.

    The past hostilities between a certain project and the community poisoning things further not withstanding, this community is choking itself to death by the way many people operate and think around here. We often look down on people who do things we think are dumb, or because we think they didn't put enough effort into something, or because we hold newbies to this stuff to unreasonable higher standards than we did to ourselves and others when this community was just starting out a few years ago.

    Nobody is going to be like myself, Pik, M2000, Beyond, SDo0m, TurboChaos, among many others in a day, a week, or maybe even a month. Getting better takes time, patience and commitment, but nobody is going to want to make any of those three things in a community where people are told to read tutorials or offers, more often than not, little meaningful help to other members. When people ask for help, they want to interact with someone who is knowledgable in what they are asking about, not a referral to some tutorial. Yeah, it means more questions for more experienced people, but it's also one of the reasons why so many never complete a mod of their own. Nobody does or says anything to galvanize the will of people wanting to get into the modding game.

    Also as a whole, we've stopped fostering actual, productive creativity. As awesome as it is that we have Model Importing, look what it's mostly reduced us to: importing models from other games. The only one left who was doing vertexing mods, was a guy named Tyshy, and his stuff is of quality we used to be amazed by back when Vertexing Mods were reaching the middle of their climb to popularity. It's not even considered great by our standards now, but he's still making creative things regardless of what we think of what he creates or has created as whole.

    Then there's the fact there are so few people who are proficient at Texturing and creating UV Maps for mods. It's another one of the reasons why so many new mods are little more than recolors, nothing more. Nobody has the knowledge. Nobody is taking things further. I may not be one to talk in this regard, having been inactive for so long, but that's far aside the point I'm making here.

    Nobody is being engaging with other people. We're basically slapping words on a board without trying to have any meaningful interactions with our words and it's stifling. It's killing our community.

    That needs to change. Badly, if there is to be any hope of this community being any more than a dying husk of what it used to be.


    also thanks I agree that a lot of people no longer values the thing that was valued back then
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    « Reply #51 on: February 20, 2015, 10:13:42 PM »


    dont get me wrong, Im not saying vertex and texture hacks are bad at all (I, myself cant texture, so Im nobody to judge texture hacks); what I mean is that people dont apreciate it as before, which I guess is a point we all agree with
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    « Reply #52 on: February 20, 2015, 11:10:15 PM »


    Oh, sorry.
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    « Reply #53 on: February 20, 2015, 11:13:11 PM »


    dont get me wrong, Im not saying vertex and texture hacks are bad at all (I, myself cant texture, so Im nobody to judge texture hacks); what I mean is that people dont apreciate it as before, which I guess is a point we all agree with
    I remember the day where people pumped out vertex after vertex and it was astounding. People like Beyond, Waffle, and ShadowSnake made some [censored]ing amazing things.
    We also had people like ItalianStallion, Robz, and Mewtwo dominate the stage game. Now, we have a few pro modellers (LlamaJuice, Peardian, I'm looking at you two) who have worked either solo or with others to get their quality models in game.
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    « Reply #54 on: February 21, 2015, 12:11:47 AM »


    I always try to be as polite as possible on the forums. In fact, anywhere in public.

    I'm not sure why some people act so snobby and stuck-up around here.
    I mean, not everyone is like that, but I've definitely have seen a few.

    It's kinda sad, to be honest. It has been only recently that I have gotten into hacking and I know quite a few others who have as well.

    I'm sure the community will be back to it's hay days when they make SmashWiiU hacks a thing. Unfortunately, it'll probably be a year or two until then...
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    « Reply #55 on: February 21, 2015, 12:27:51 AM »


    Getting back on the subject of how to change the look of the forum overall...

    I was thinking about the idea of maybe shifting the site toward more "mellow" and brighter colors using a color triad of blues, teals and pale magentas. Give it a sort of "student lounge" feel.

    -and perhaps come up with different motifs for specific groups of boards using relatively simple designs. Like a "workshop" motif for the boards relating to mods, and a "Cafe" motif for the General Discussion boards. While integrating the mixture of "cats" and "Smash" more into the forums overall identity, trying to give off the feel "We're a bunch of chillaxed kittens and old cats who love to do and mod Smash. Come right on in."
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    « Reply #56 on: February 21, 2015, 03:42:01 AM »


    To me the community isnt dying becuase of anything like that, its dying becuase ppl loose interest over time, so manny years of something and your bound to loose interest.

    I usualy checked vault every day tryed every hack i found but then after like 2 years it starts to be boring this happens with everything after some time ppl will just stop playing becuase they already did play the game for alot of time, now i havent played brawl for months becuase i was tyred of it, it wasnt becuase of anything else but becuase of get bored of playing ssbb.
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    « Reply #57 on: February 21, 2015, 04:56:25 AM »


    I was thinking about the idea of maybe shifting the site toward more "mellow" and brighter colors using a color triad of blues, teals and pale magentas. Give it a sort of "student lounge" feel.

    So... you're suggesting that the sites color layout to look very close, if not exactly, like the color layout of the PM site? I don't think that would be the smartest option Velen. I'd choose another set of colors... maybe something like... the colors of the morning sunrise. Those colors are a bit more relaxing. Usually when you think of a sunrise... you think of relaxing things, out in nature or a peaceful place... Well that's what comes to my mind anyway.

    @Carnage
    That's just your reasons for not wanting to continue. Not everyone thinks the same as you. Also, punctuation goes a long way when trying to be coherent. You should try it some time.
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    « Reply #58 on: February 21, 2015, 07:25:21 AM »


    So... you're suggesting that the sites color layout to look very, if not exactly, like the color layout of the PM site? I don't think that would be the smartest option Velen. I'd choose another set of colors... maybe something like... the colors of the morning sunrise. Those colors are a bit more relaxing. Usually when you think of a sunrise... you think of relaxing things, out in nature or a peaceful place... Well that's what comes to my mind anyway.

    @Carnage
    That's just your reasons for not wanting to continue. Not everyone thinks the same as you. Also, punctuation goes a long way when trying to be coherent. You should try it some time.
    grammar nazi are also why ppl tend to leavue the forums too...

    For some reason some ppl feel the need that everyone that isnt a native englsih speaker must speak perfect english on a forum, i never had any english course or anything all my english came from watching movies and playing games and i dont feel the need that i would pay to have an english degree so i could write on a forum about ssbb modding.Srs this is one thing that pisses me off if you were talking my language and made afew mistakes i would like a normal person undertand that it isnt is native language so errors are bound to happen, but i guess most ppl  cant stand to a foreign guy talking their native language and making mistakes becuase they shouldnt be allowed to do so without taking a english course to make perfect pontuactions on every sentence.Also i said why i lost interest myself  and i bet some ppl did that too.
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    « Reply #59 on: February 21, 2015, 09:30:00 AM »


    dont get me wrong, Im not saying vertex and texture hacks are bad at all (I, myself cant texture, so Im nobody to judge texture hacks); what I mean is that people dont apreciate it as before, which I guess is a point we all agree with

    True; I only have like 50 downloads per texture I've made, and only like 70-100 per texture of an already-made import, whereas I've seen many people have like over 1,000 downloads for one basic texture.

    Getting back on the subject of how to change the look of the forum overall...

    I was thinking about the idea of maybe shifting the site toward more "mellow" and brighter colors using a color triad of blues, teals and pale magentas. Give it a sort of "student lounge" feel.

    -and perhaps come up with different motifs for specific groups of boards using relatively simple designs. Like a "workshop" motif for the boards relating to mods, and a "Cafe" motif for the General Discussion boards. While integrating the mixture of "cats" and "Smash" more into the forums overall identity, trying to give off the feel "We're a bunch of chillaxed kittens and old cats who love to do and mod Smash. Come right on in."

    Like Segtendo said,
    Quote
    Don't fix what ain't broke.

    Maybe add a theme picker, where you can choose your own hex color values and stuff(Similar to wikia.com's theme maker), if possible. I'm sure that since this is a Brawl forum, mainly about Brawl, an old-school type game that wasn't as well-liked as Melee, Project M, or Sm4sh, there are probably a lot of other old-school people on here, who like neutral colors for a forum; so a theme would be cool for some, but probably a lot of us here on kc-mm love it the way that it is.

    Post Merge: February 21, 2015, 09:37:59 AM
    grammar nazi are also why ppl tend to leavue the forums too...

    For some reason some ppl feel the need that everyone that isnt a native englsih speaker must speak perfect english on a forum, i never had any english course or anything all my english came from watching movies and playing games and i dont feel the need that i would pay to have an english degree so i could write on a forum about ssbb modding.Srs this is one thing that pisses me off if you were talking my language and made afew mistakes i would like a normal person undertand that it isnt is native language so errors are bound to happen, but i guess most ppl  cant stand to a foreign guy talking their native language and making mistakes becuase they shouldnt be allowed to do so without taking a english course to make perfect pontuactions on every sentence.Also i said why i lost interest myself  and i bet some ppl did that too.

    I actually have respect for foreigners who speak English; they usually have better grammar structure when speaking than Americans, as Americans are lazy compared to many countries. I only find it annoying when I don't understand what they're saying, like if they use Google Translate to translate their speech(i.e. not speaking English), because I like helping people, and I can't do that if I don't know what they want.
    « Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 09:37:59 AM by windhunter7 » Logged


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