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Author Topic: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!!  (Read 571 times)
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SemiPsycho
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    « Reply #15 on: October 06, 2018, 04:34:41 PM »


    The only thing that bothers me is that you didn't make changes to the legs and face, because the legs would be necessary to do his spankety taunt if we decide to do so, and the face, to at least smile

    About the legs, no need to worry about those. The problem with the legs wasn't that it needed more faces (I compared the density of the his legs to Lucas', and they're about the same). The problem with the legs was that it didn't have any bones to actually move it, which I will change once it comes time to rig the model.

    About the face though, that's the really tricky part to me. His face itself isn't rigged to a jaw bone, so changing facial expression would require some kind of deformation animation. I think the term used for it in brawl's files is SHP0 or VIS0 or something like that. And it would be rather difficult to change his facial expression given the odd nature of his face to begin with, so unfortunately I'm not so sure how different facial expressions will work yet. However, we could animate the mech's jaw instead to imply a certain facial expression.

    Regarding his pants, I made the pant sleeve smaller toward the end because Porky will be sitting in his mech more tilted like in Mother 3 and Crusade, so I wanted to avoid the player seeing the inside of his pants when playing... If you and others still want it to be wider, then I'll change it back.

    And I just decided that I'm going to do UVs before the rigging process. This is because when experimenting I found out that even after modifying the model, virtually all the UVs are still intact, which is amazing! The only UVs I have to refurbish are the ones for his pants! Afterward, I can combine the Uvs for Lucas' modified body and Porky's body into one or two texture maps, then we can modify his skin and clothes on Lucas' part of the model to match Porky!
    Then there's also that weird texture distortion you noticed in that red structure on his mech, I'll look into that too.

    As for Business Porky alts, I can do that after we get his primary costume working. I think its more important to get his primary costume going before we start alternative costumes, unless they're recolors or retextures. The difference for Business Porky is that he may require some model modifications, which will require re-rigging parts of the model and modifying the UVs once again.
    « Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 05:06:52 PM by SemiPsycho » Logged



    Ninten DS™
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    « Reply #16 on: October 06, 2018, 05:10:29 PM »


    I didn't understand a single part about the facial expressions, but I can see how complicated to you, after all Porky isn't that expressive so it isn't important. About his pants, I understand, I didn't think about it, and so I believe it's ok that way. Of course the main costume should be done first, after that you could do the business suit one, after all I guess it doesn't give that much trouble, right? And after that PigMaskColonel suggested a young Porky alt, and maybe we could use some assets from a SFM post that was linked in Smashboards, here's it: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1501429680
    I believe that since the UVs are the same I can start with the recolors again, right?
    Now a bit off topic, I plan the pose for the renders be the one from his Brawl/Sm4sh trophy, and I'd love to include Mecha-Porkies in since they're such an important part of Porky's moves, so, at one point (not now), do you think you could start importing it, or give me a Mecha-Porky model to use in BrawlBox? I don't know from where to extract files, so if you could find it for me it would be great.
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    SemiPsycho
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    « Reply #17 on: October 06, 2018, 07:47:35 PM »


    Mecha-porky is found right with Porky's other boss files, and that's found somewhere within all the story mode stage files... and there's a bunch of them. PigMask might be able to tell you which one he found it in XD.

    But I'm not done with textures yet. Although most of the Uvs worked, I've moved them so they use the same texture map. I've finished UV unwrapping the pants, but now I'm trying to bake an ambient occlusion to its texture map so it will look nicer. I'm currently having issues though.
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    PigmaskColonel
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    « Reply #18 on: October 07, 2018, 05:08:18 PM »


    I want to show everyone progress on remodeling Porky. As a matter of fact, I might be done with the remodeling. Now I have to recreate the UVs (some are salvageable) and rig him over a new skeleton. Check out the screenshots I made! I'll update the OP with this as well:

    https://imgur.com/a/HQN0cS5

    This isn't shown in the screenshot, but the skeleton for Porky and the rest of his mech now match the resize PigMaskColonel made properly, rather than forcing the animations to resize it. I have to add more bones to Porky first before rigging otherwise the whole remodeling process is pointless.
    It looks even better than I thought it would. Terrific stuff! Thanks for all of your Herculean efforts on this.
    I agree that the new pant legs are better. It's a more visually pleasing design than the original model's flared-out pants, which seemed to mimic the look of EarthBound's Porky more-so than it did his Mother 3 sprites, interestingly.

    Also, yes, I definitely think we could do it without any facial expressions. It's not like Porky's going to do much "acting" anyway, considering how frail and sedentary he is in his time-warped state. For the most part, Porky will just lie in the bed and get jostled around a little while his mech handles the real performance.

    Now a bit off topic, I plan the pose for the renders be the one from his Brawl/Sm4sh trophy, and I'd love to include Mecha-Porkies in since they're such an important part of Porky's moves, so, at one point (not now), do you think you could start importing it, or give me a Mecha-Porky model to use in BrawlBox? I don't know from where to extract files, so if you could find it for me it would be great.

    You can find the boss PAC file here:

    https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0B4vhNdf69qaSZ0N0MnBjOXFYMU0

    The directory is stage/adventure/920201.pac. The file has everything & the kitchen sink for Porky's Subspace Emissary appearance; character models, his stage, visual effects, animations, etc.
    I think including a Mecha-Porky in his render might clutter the whole composition of things since his mech is already so large and difficult to frame, but you can still give it a shot if you'd like. I haven't nailed down any render concepts yet, anyway.
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    Ninten DS™
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    « Reply #19 on: October 09, 2018, 12:41:26 PM »


    Here's the render concept I had in mind. I messed up a bit and Porky's looking directly into the camera but that will be fixed when the actual model is done so I can finish the render. I couldn't get the Mecha-Porkies' lights or reflection working, I just kinda don't know how to do that in Blender.

    The Mecha-Porky in the back isn't supposed to look into the camera either.

    That would be the actual CSP, but here's how the STC (I believe it's the one used in the results screen?) and the BP would look like:

    « Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 12:46:41 PM by Ninten DS™ » Logged

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    PigmaskColonel
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    « Reply #20 on: October 09, 2018, 01:31:32 PM »


    Hmm... Yeah, I'm still not sure about it. The composition of the shot is pretty busy, what with the robots & mech limbs going everywhere. I like the angle of the shot, with Porky looking down upon the camera, but the rest of it could use some fine-tuning.
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    « Reply #21 on: October 09, 2018, 01:40:50 PM »


    Hmm... Yeah, I'm still not sure about it. The composition of the shot is pretty busy, what with the robots & mech limbs going everywhere. I like the angle of the shot, with Porky looking down upon the camera, but the rest of it could use some fine-tuning.

    I wanted to give Porky an energetic-like pose just like the rest of the cast in the Legacy XP/TE mod, so I pretty much based it off the trophy. I could remove the Mecha-Porkies and make the mech's limbs be closer to it, but I guess it should be better to wait until we have the new model. By the way, do you think that could be the Mecha-Porkies' size (the one that's walking is closer to the camera, so he's slightly bigger)?
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    « Reply #22 on: October 11, 2018, 02:55:21 PM »


    How's the progress on the model going? I've done some more concepts, this time for a Porky model, which would actually be optimized with Colonel's custom mech model. I've done a size comparison with Bowser and Lucas:

    I wanted to give Porky a model that looks more similar to his Mother 3 appearance, with the mech being a bit more big than the one we planned. Do you think we could probably take a model like this? I personally think this type of model would be great to give Porky a bit more range, but the one we have planned is still better. Thoughts?

    Post Merge: October 11, 2018, 03:09:48 PM
    Hmm... Yeah, I'm still not sure about it. The composition of the shot is pretty busy, what with the robots & mech limbs going everywhere. I like the angle of the shot, with Porky looking down upon the camera, but the rest of it could use some fine-tuning.

    Oh yeah! I didn't quite understand, you want me to change the mech's pose right? Would it be better for it to simply have a waiting stand or..?
    « Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 03:09:49 PM by Ninten DS™ » Logged

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    « Reply #23 on: October 11, 2018, 05:55:06 PM »


    While I agree that Porky's range should be large, we don't need to increase the size of the whole model to accomplish that. Range can be optimized for his attacks through use of "squash & stretch" animation techniques, regardless of the size of the model itself. Therefore, I definitely think the scale of the mech should be kept as small as possible, to reduce the size of his already-large hurtboxes. Anything bigger would just hinder the gameplay of the character.

    Besides, Porky's range is likely going to be pretty ridiculous no matter the scale of the model. The mech's limbs can reach VERY far when fully extended (even longer than Dedede's mallet or Shulk's Monado, in most scenarios). This is why it's crucial that Porky's animations be crafted very carefully, to avoid making him too big of a target.

    Regarding the render, I imagine it'd be easier to get my points across if I just gave you a visual of what I have in mind (this is just a POC, of course):



    Considering the fact that the PSA is primarily built for vBrawl (and eventually Project M), I think we should strive to fit the straightforward style of Brawl's render aesthetic for now. I mean, the mod will most likely end up in Legacy XP at some point, but we can worry about making renders & other elements for the modpack at a later date.

    My render mockup isn't necessarily 100% what I have in mind, but you get the general idea; the mech legs overlap less, and the Mecha-Porkies don't clutter things quite as much, since all they really do is fill out the sides of the image. Additionally, the camera angle is more along the lines of Brawl's head-on renders, which makes the whole shot feel much cleaner and more concise.
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    « Reply #24 on: October 11, 2018, 06:09:26 PM »


    While I agree that Porky's range should be large, we don't need to increase the size of the whole model to accomplish that. Range can be optimized for his attacks through use of "squash & stretch" animation techniques, regardless of the size of the model itself. Therefore, I definitely think the scale of the mech should be kept as small as possible, to reduce the size of his already-large hurtboxes. Anything bigger would just hinder the gameplay of the character.

    Besides, Porky's range is likely going to be pretty ridiculous no matter the scale of the model. The mech's limbs can reach VERY far when fully extended (even longer than Dedede's mallet or Shulk's Monado, in most scenarios). This is why it's crucial that Porky's animations be crafted very carefully, to avoid making him too big of a target.

    Regarding the render, I imagine it'd be easier to get my points across if I just gave you a visual of what I have in mind (this is just a POC, of course):



    Considering the fact that the PSA is primarily built for vBrawl (and eventually Project M), I think we should strive to fit the straightforward style of Brawl's render aesthetic for now. I mean, the mod will most likely end up in Legacy XP at some point, but we can worry about making renders & other elements for the modpack at a later date.

    My render mockup isn't necessarily 100% what I have in mind, but you get the general idea; the mech legs overlap less, and the Mecha-Porkies don't clutter things quite as much, since all they really do is fill out the sides of the image. Additionally, the camera angle is more along the lines of Brawl's head-on renders, which makes the whole shot feel much cleaner and more concise.

    Coming up with a Porky render seems a bit difficult, but I guess we can go with something like the original render, which was only a salute, but maybe adding the mecha-porkies, considering that Brawl's renders are somehow simple poses, Ness literally has his pose from the promotional art, being Ninten's pose as well. I really like the left Mecha-porky's pose, it's kinda funny! I'm pretty much doing these renders for fun, since I'm waiting for the final model and meanwhile see what you would think about the poses, since besides that, I can only do textures as I said a time ago in previous messages. I guess we should make the Mecha-Porkies smaller, in this way they could take less space and so make more room for Porky. For now I'll stop doing these, I'll wait until the model is done so I can get into it. I like where the mod is going so far, I'm planning to do as much recolors as I can, so you two can decide which ones would fit better, I have a full folder of Porky sprite recolors, so I can go with that! Of course, I also need to wait for the model for the textures.
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    SemiPsycho
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    « Reply #25 on: October 13, 2018, 11:09:17 AM »


    Hey guys sorry I haven't updated you all on progress so far! So I've had to recreate the UVs on his pants and thus the texture for that area will be entirely remade. I also had to remake his shirt texture because the UVs of his old shirt and Lucas' shirt weren't composed the same way. So essentially I'm retexturing all his clothes, and I ran into a problem earlier that broke my texture file so I had to restart that.

    Anyway, his clothes are looking a little different now. His suspenders are more of a pale light-blueish color because in my opinion it resembles Mother 3 Porky more that the brawl Porky. There's only one strap on each side now instead of each one splitting toward the bottom when it reaches the top of his pants.

    I know I don't have a picture yet but what do you guys think about this?
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    PigmaskColonel
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    « Reply #26 on: October 13, 2018, 03:21:17 PM »


    That sounds perfect! I never liked all of the odd little modifications that Brawl made to Porky's design, anyway.
    Just to clarify, do you mean you're actually designing brand new textures from the ground up? If so, well... Kudos to you. Texturing is a tricky business, especially with Brawl's gritty art style. Good luck.

    Coming up with a Porky render seems a bit difficult, but I guess we can go with something like the original render, which was only a salute, but maybe adding the mecha-porkies, considering that Brawl's renders are somehow simple poses, Ness literally has his pose from the promotional art, being Ninten's pose as well.

    I didn't notice the parallels between my current render mockup and the old one until now, but you're right. Ha! Actually, Porky isn't necessarily supposed to be "saluting" in the new render (I intended it as him motioning the Mecha-Porkies into battle), but I can see why you'd think that. Hopefully the gesture will read more easily when re-done with SemiPsycho's improved rig.
    I don't really see any other similarities between my current mockup and the old one, though.
    « Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 03:23:13 PM by PigmaskColonel » Logged

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    « Reply #27 on: October 13, 2018, 06:48:44 PM »


    Hey guys sorry I haven't updated you all on progress so far! So I've had to recreate the UVs on his pants and thus the texture for that area will be entirely remade. I also had to remake his shirt texture because the UVs of his old shirt and Lucas' shirt weren't composed the same way. So essentially I'm retexturing all his clothes, and I ran into a problem earlier that broke my texture file so I had to restart that.

    Anyway, his clothes are looking a little different now. His suspenders are more of a pale light-blueish color because in my opinion it resembles Mother 3 Porky more that the brawl Porky. There's only one strap on each side now instead of each one splitting toward the bottom when it reaches the top of his pants.

    I know I don't have a picture yet but what do you guys think about this?

    Full custom texturing sure is hard work, you sure are putting dedication into this and that amazes me! I never had a problem with Brawl's design, but I always preferred Mother 3's design over it, because really how the [censored] does one person with 1000/10000 years still have blond hair, because of course, it sticks more the the extremely old man concept. After what PigMaskColonel said a while ago that his pants now look more accurate, I also noticed that now! I just got to beat Mother 3 yesterday and I finally noticed it, so I've come to really like that detail! Since Porky's fight sprite has those big buttons, do you think it would be a good idea to take Mario's/Luigi's/Wario's buttons and put them in Porky's model? They're very noticeable unlike Brawl's buttons due to the double straps.

    Also, I made some more render concepts! After all I think PigMaskColonel could come up with something better and polish it even more, have these!






    Even so I noticed how the images for in-game should be 180x160, so I believe we really need to go with something simple instead of adding Mecha-Porkies, perhaps maybe there's a way to fit them in there? Because if else, it just looks horribly stretched.i also know that i missed to put some transparency in most of them

    Also good luck with the textures of course!
    « Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 06:50:28 PM by Ninten DS™ » Logged

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    « Reply #28 on: October 14, 2018, 10:57:52 AM »


    Here's the render concept I had in mind. I messed up a bit and Porky's looking directly into the camera but that will be fixed when the actual model is done so I can finish the render. I couldn't get the Mecha-Porkies' lights or reflection working, I just kinda don't know how to do that in Blender.

    The Mecha-Porky in the back isn't supposed to look into the camera either.

    That would be the actual CSP, but here's how the STC (I believe it's the one used in the results screen?) and the BP would look like:


    Gonna be honest, I actually really like this one! I like how Porky's looking into the camera also. Maybe if you keep Porly's angle and pose but change the mech's pose to be more compact somehow? When it comes to the render that will be used in-game, the Mecha-Porkies will most likely have to be excluded. But you could definitely make a version of the same render with Mecha-Porkies when people would see the entire image outside of the game, and I encourage you to just have fun with these poses.

    About the texturing progress right now, I know PigMaskColonel is eager to start animating, and I don't know how much time he'll have until he won't have time anymore. So I'm thinking, since I've finished the UVs, what if I rig the model now so you can start animating, while I continue texturing the new clothes? It just means you'll be animating Porky with Lucas' colored shirt and distorted suspenders until I finish the textures. Because rigging is still a big process. The mech fortunately won't be very hard, but since Porky is an organic object that will take more work.
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    PigmaskColonel
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    « Reply #29 on: October 14, 2018, 04:12:18 PM »


    About the texturing progress right now, I know PigMaskColonel is eager to start animating, and I don't know how much time he'll have until he won't have time anymore. So I'm thinking, since I've finished the UVs, what if I rig the model now so you can start animating, while I continue texturing the new clothes? It just means you'll be animating Porky with Lucas' colored shirt and distorted suspenders until I finish the textures. Because rigging is still a big process. The mech fortunately won't be very hard, but since Porky is an organic object that will take more work.

    I was actually going to suggest this, but I decided to let you do things at your own pace. If you think you're ready to tackle the rigging now, I'd greatly appreciate it!
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