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« on: July 28, 2009, 10:05:06 AM » |
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I'm sure this isn't a concern that only I have, so please let me know if you agree.
What I've noticed lately is how disorganized the texture hacking community is. We have way more forums than needed, way more teams than needed, and way more "galleries" than needed.
The idea that I've had for the longest time is to have official sites for each of these; Kitty Corp is the obvious choice for the forum, Meowmix, ESH, and Stacksmash really have no need of these considering how active these forums are.
Meowmix's wiki or Kitty Corp's Texture Gallery are the obvious choices for the gallery, but I'm not sure which. They are both amazingly organized and have tons of potential for growth if the texture hacking community becomes more aware of them and participate.
Now here's the tricky part. There are tons of great texture teams, but many others seem to go unnoticed or update only three or four times a month. I believe that Stacksmash made a HUGE mistake in giving everyone free hosting for a blog. It would be much easier if everyone just used the forum...OR
One solution to this problem could be making a site like Brawlsnapshots.com, except a little different. I'm no good at coding or making sites or any of that, but I *think* it would be possible (with much hard work) to make a site where users can upload there .pac files and comment on their creations. Heres where I'm a bit unsure on if this could work or not. The site would have a built in program like 3Ds Max that would manually place the pac file on the designated character model and allow users to view all aspects of the texture without actually placing it in their Brawl. On this site, there could also be a page where mods on the site feature texture hacks that they are pleasently surprised by. If we had this there might not be a need for a Gallery.
Sorry if this is all a bit hard to understand, but as of now this is just a big rant with a couple of ideas that I wanted to get all of your ideas on.
tl;dr version: There are too many forums/sites and we need an organized way to make it easy on the community to make and share there texture hacks.
Please feel free to comment on my ideas, thanks for reading!
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« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 10:11:53 AM by Loopyeyes »
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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2009, 10:19:28 AM » |
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hmmmm, i like the 3d max idea
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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2009, 11:41:14 AM » |
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I'm sure this isn't a concern that only I have, so please let me know if you agree.
What I've noticed lately is how disorganized the texture hacking community is. We have way more forums than needed, way more teams than needed, and way more "galleries" than needed.
The idea that I've had for the longest time is to have official sites for each of these; Kitty Corp is the obvious choice for the forum, Meowmix, ESH, and Stacksmash really have no need of these considering how active these forums are.
Meowmix's wiki or Kitty Corp's Texture Gallery are the obvious choices for the gallery, but I'm not sure which. They are both amazingly organized and have tons of potential for growth if the texture hacking community becomes more aware of them and participate.
Now here's the tricky part. There are tons of great texture teams, but many others seem to go unnoticed or update only three or four times a month. I believe that Stacksmash made a HUGE mistake in giving everyone free hosting for a blog. It would be much easier if everyone just used the forum...OR
One solution to this problem could be making a site like Brawlsnapshots.com, except a little different. I'm no good at coding or making sites or any of that, but I *think* it would be possible (with much hard work) to make a site where users can upload there .pac files and comment on their creations. Heres where I'm a bit unsure on if this could work or not. The site would have a built in program like 3Ds Max that would manually place the pac file on the designated character model and allow users to view all aspects of the texture without actually placing it in their Brawl. On this site, there could also be a page where mods on the site feature texture hacks that they are pleasently surprised by. If we had this there might not be a need for a Gallery.
Sorry if this is all a bit hard to understand, but as of now this is just a big rant with a couple of ideas that I wanted to get all of your ideas on.
tl;dr version: There are too many forums/sites and we need an organized way to make it easy on the community to make and share there texture hacks.
Please feel free to comment on my ideas, thanks for reading!
Some sites don't get views for good reasons, like diarontou glitch force. Others are because of bad host (coughbrawlhostcough), being newer teams, ect. |
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Someone model hack in Maka from Soul Eater (with Soul as the scythe) into Brawl when model hacks come out and you will become king of the world.
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2009, 12:50:12 PM » |
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Great post, and definitely something that every current Brawl community should take note of. I'm definitely a bit biased in terms of having Kitty Corp as the "sole forum" but... it's because I received my first help here... and well... got hired here. But really it's a matter of pride for the separate communities to exist... and you know how easy it is to overcome that, despite any logical reasoning. --- Hell, Teady would probably ban me for mentioning this... but one of the options we discussed when searching out a new host was combining forums with Stack Smash. (At that point --- our last host basically said "**** you", and we needed a solution... fast. --- Returning to proboards wasn't a favorable option at the time, we would have lost at least a months worth of forum posts) But well... that plan fell through. Why? They admitted they weren't sure if they could handle the strain, especially when we brought up the gallery. ( The following is of my own opinion and does not represent Kitty Corp as a whole) That and I found it excruciating trying to talk things out... barely was a serious minute in that conversation... As for the gallery... well I'll say Kitty Corp's should be the main one. It was the first and it is currently the largest. The wiki has the advantage of being able to be updated by anyone... but that does serve as a disadvantage as well. KC's gallery wouldn't be what it is today if Vyse hadn't put a lot of effort into gathering and formatting people's textures himself --- actual user submissions are slow and it seems many people are too lazy to bother. I'd like to see some more cooperation on this front... but well... 1) Stack Smash had turned down our gallery due to server constraints, they just couldn't take it 2) I couldn't get a hold of ANYONE from Meow Mix --- I had actually suggested to Vyse long ago that we work with the wiki... if we knew the wiki could handle the stress + if we could work out an arrangement 3) Jack complained about the blog / forum split citing it being a new "spot", further separating the community. Yes he did take caution with how he said it but... Meow Mix is essentially the child of Kitty Corp --- there is no denying it. Team members were basically assembled out of people who didn't make the last KC tryouts and well... the name / imagery for the site... it's kinda obvious. The entire idea of not splitting the community and them having their own forums is kinda hypocritical. 4) The gallery has been the reason for much of our traffic and new members. Our proboards forum had 3K members who signed up for the sole purpose of leeching from the gallery. Our current forum had nearly 1.5k signups in a week (and just as many spam intro posts) for the same reason. One of Jack's arguments was that if we handed it over to SS... they would benefit entirely... is also one of the reasons we didn't submit to the wiki. --- SS considers their forum "for all brawl hackers" same as MM and the wiki --- but the truth of the matter is... the sheer fact anyone associates either of those with their respective founding teams is something that would draw away and be a detriment to KC's growth. 5) Vyse put a lot of work into the gallery and it's not something that he's going to let go of easily. Yeah... he's a bit stubborn about it --- right now I'm the only other KC member who even has login privileges. But well... he has put in most of the work --- we hadn't received ANY offers for help in the past (aside from Dantarion... but that broke off... although there is a slim chance of it happening again...) As for the 3D viewing of models... sounds cool but not really feasible. Setting up a site to be the brawlsnapshots (hell, photobucket) of brawl textures is a major deal on it's own. (Ask Dantarion about BrawlTex...) which will no doubt be a massive drain on bandwidth. Adding on a 3D viewer to that would probably be a lot of work. Not saying I wouldn't like to see it done / it isn't possible.... just saying I wouldn't hold high hopes. And I say again... all of these points (especially those dealing with interactions between current Brawl sites) are my own opinions and not those of KC as a whole. |
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« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 12:52:42 PM by picano »
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2009, 01:46:05 PM » |
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remember, that we will need a new kind of gallery once the plan zero program is released. there will be an endless amount of new stuff happening once that is released
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2009, 02:44:32 PM » |
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--- we hadn't received ANY offers for help in the past (aside from Dantarion... but that broke off... although there is a slim chance of it happening again...)
.. i did lol (doesnt matter anyway  we're still cool) Anyway, the 3d model thing is EXTREMELY unfeasible because what program can you possibly embed into a webpage and have it work flawlessly? its not going to happen BUT there could be one way, but i am not the right person to help with it too much. Flash objects are light on filesize and bandwidth, but the only thing i would have trouble doing is assigning any random texture to a 2.5D (in between 2D and 3D objects because flash doesnt do 3D on its own) object from a file that is not already in the flash file itself. For a gallery, I like both the gallery and the wiki. there shouldnt be more than that. SS can do whatever they want because they get the most views no matter what. they have their own downloads gallery so theres no point in them merging anywhere over here (i'll get shot for that one) forums- too many. period. don't make one to fit in... it only causes less posts in all of them. so keep it small and dedicate to KC... or else i will get you long story short: 1. 3D models unlikely, unless there's an uber flash artist that can help (and that isnt me yet) 2. too many forums. stick to KC because its the biggest and i like it here 3. gallery/wiki- don't change them... i like both |
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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2009, 04:47:31 PM » |
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BrawlTex was going to be almost exactly what you described, Loopy, minus the entirely impractical 3D viewer. That fell through months ago, and I honestly don't remember why. I often curse its lack of existence. >.>
Picano already said a lot of the other things I think about this whole situation, but I'll reiterate because I'm bored:
-- The KC forum is obviously the biggest and best; if a merger were to ever happen, the other forums are coming here. I laughed when ESH made their own forum. Seriously, what do they think they're going to accomplish? As for MeowMix: I was the one who pointed out to picano that having their own forum while criticizing us for further dividing the community was hypocrisy in its purest form.
-- The gallery is mine. I built it from nothing, putting days upon days of my personal time and effort into organizing that mess, and there's no way I'm just handing all that work to anyone else. Especially something that's as sloppy and painful to look at as the wiki.
-- Pride is a huge part of why we haven't all come together to sing songs and build a texture utopia. None of the "big names" is ever going to be happy losing any portion of its popularity. However, I do agree that there are too many tiny BrawlHost teams out there. Honestly, people, if you get rejected from or kicked out of some other team, don't just say "lol den i'll maek mai own." Instead, get better and try again.
-- Building on the previous one: both remarkable attempts at creating a "unified" texture community have been shallow, obvious ploys to increase the popularity of the team that started them. The SCHC and Brawlhost? "Stacksmash" is right there in the URL. The Wiki? If it was really a "BrawlHacks" wiki and not a "MeowMix" wiki, that cat would not be in the banner. Any attempt to create a unified community needs to be a collaborative effort between the various teams and set up on a new domain, unrelated to any of the teams contributing; not some independently conceived "revolution" that one team creates, releases, and absurdly expects everyone else to just accept.
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« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 06:16:01 PM by Vyse »
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« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 06:11:53 PM » |
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BrawlTex would have been a wonderful site... but it never got finished. Anyways... --Kitty Corp's forum is the biggest and best Brawl Hacking community in the whole internet. The SCHC's "most users ever online" is 18, ours is 40 and in our old forum it was 187 (with a whooping 4868 users... 2/3 of them leechers). And Meowmix's and ESH's forums are nearly non-existent (without the intention to offend any of you guys). As Vyse said, if there's going to be a merger, we're staying here. --Have any of you guys realized how complex and big the gallery is? It was all thanks to Vyse's awesome hard work. I don't think he's letting the gallery go so easily... At least I wouldn't. The gallery was the main reason of our bandwidth problems, which drained the bandwidth of every site we put it on, meaning it attracted LOTS of people (doh). I see the Wiki as a wanna be Gallery with some extra options here and there (once again, I don't have the intention to hurt anyone). -- I have a bad relation with almost a half of Stack Smash's team, and there are some other teams that HATE me with all their willpower. Most of those problems are my brother's fault, who likes to sneak into my computer and leave me in problems with everyone. Fortunately, he's not doing it again... (I know this isn't so important... but I'm mentioning here if anyone sees my previous posts with weird, rude messages on other sites... Just know it's not me  ) --"The Wiki? If it was really a "BrawlHacks" wiki and not a "MeowMix" wiki, that cat would not be in the banner" I thought of that as soon as I saw the banner... |
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« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 06:15:47 PM by Marcov15 »
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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2009, 06:19:26 PM » |
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I honestly dislike the ESH forum. Why do we need three boards for suggestions, I though one thread would have been enough. And how about a gaming section instead of one for every console? I'm quoting an article on how to make a succesful site, which did say "Don't make too many board for your forums".
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Someone model hack in Maka from Soul Eater (with Soul as the scythe) into Brawl when model hacks come out and you will become king of the world.
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 06:21:52 PM » |
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I laughed when ESH made their own forum.
good thing nobody saw PN's... (i wasnt a part of that decision... i'm just there to keep order...really lol) and at everything else Vyse said- well put. I've said things to a few people about the situation before this thread started, but i don't want to say that stuff publicly because i'd just be some noob badmouthing a team more popular than the one i'm on.. and i dont need that right now. |
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2009, 09:34:07 PM » |
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your on a team stickman?
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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2009, 09:39:25 PM » |
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your on a team stickman?
He's on Power Nation. |
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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2009, 05:57:48 AM » |
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The whole pride thing, with the bigger teams, I don't think its pride as much of it is stubborn attitude. Its not just a case of people wanting to be the boss, but they also imagine the worst of situations first and completely ignore the good side of things.
Say SS and KC made a merge, the first things people would think about would be the negatives:
- The creators of both teams will no longer have full authority (this bringing me back to the whole, wanting to be a leader and stubborn attitude situation). It is prone for someone to claim they have more authority over something.
- Some of the team members may dislike each other.
- There will be WAY less updating chances and some may update more frequent than others (people will be complaining about picking up the slack, probably leading back to the ownership issues).
These things would ultimately lead to a breakup and when you think of a breakup, you imagine both teams being destroyed and completely left in the gutter.
If you look at it, there are little negatives, but people have a habit to overlook the pros if there are some cons. The cons are obviously outweighed by the pros (I'm too slack to name them, but you can just think them in your mind).
Personally, I'm all for merges, but they have to be thought out thoroughly (the good and the bad) before being done.
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Zephiel:
You know what I really like on my stack smash?
Texture updates.
Androu1:
@Zephiel: “your†Stack Smash?
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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2009, 09:46:39 AM » |
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Yup, stubborn covers it as well.
But really the team pages (at least the major ones) can stay separate --- the forums are what should be merged at this point. (I'd mention the gallery but... the wiki doesn't stand a chance)
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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2009, 10:58:38 PM » |
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Wow, today's ben a confusing day! First SS thinks they're mixing with MM, then MM actually merges with KC. This thread is basically about promoting a united texture hacking team so here's my take on the good and bad of today's events.
Pros:
+Two huge teams put into one
+Wiki and gallery merging. (As far as I'm aware, I may be wrong)
+No more unneeded MM forums
+A slight sense of unity among the two teams
+Setting example for other texture teams to follow the lead
Cons:
-Stack Smash getting pissed at being duped, probably gonna lead to a rivalry of the two teams. Competition can be god, but in this case it probably won't be
-Knowing texture hacking team's pride, they probably won't follow the 'it's good to merge' example set by MM and KC
-ESH showing that they're loving being their own team. (Not necessarily bad)
-Little to no people paying attention to SA project.
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CLICK MY SIGNATURE |
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