Title: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: Velen on February 04, 2013, 01:03:05 AM For a lot of people. I am known for sometimes giving very harsh, heated critiques. Which I have done several times in the past. I often get negative responses from people for this. I think it's time for an explanation of why I give such harsh critiques. It's not out of spite, misplaced rage, directing my rage at someone, or any other manner of venting. It's because of how I view the mods on this site.
When I look at a mod. I look at is as if I were a game developer myself, the head of a development team. The head of a team of people who are making a commercial game. A lot of you think of this as taking things too seriously, and some of you even might go as far as to say I need to "get a life"...Guess what? With some of the stuff I see on the Vault sometimes, I feel I'm too lenient with a lot of you, and only hold back from saying anything cause I know I'll most likely get a negative response on it. Why bother then? -because -like it or not- you're learning skills that could lead to a career in the gaming industry, even if you only mean it to be a hobby, it doesn't change the fact you're learning skills that could better prepare you for a career in that field if you were ever to seek it. That is why I am often so harsh. Cause based on the models in most video games I see that come out today. I can see pretty well what developers would expect of their development teams. I don't expect people to exactly make professional quality work, but I do expect it to be good, and I do expect people to try to be good about taking feedback. Cause if you were to take up a job in a development studio as a modeler, artist, texture artist, animator, etc, you would be getting a lot of it, and sometimes it will be very harsh or blunt, depending on how you perform. What all modders should strive for is to make their works look like they belong in the final game, model-wise, rigging-wise, everything. Why? It's simple, because it looks the best aesthetically, makes for a natural-looking mod, and makes your works look even better. You might say things like "I don't do this for the downloads" or "I don't care about downloads", assuming downloads are what I care about when it comes to hacking. That's the farthest thing from my mind. What I want out of people is good looking hacks. That's all I want, and that's all I'll ever want of people who make mods on here. Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: LC-DDM on February 04, 2013, 07:12:27 AM inb4 noobs ignore the wall of text and belittle you for wanting quality in a Vault riddled with [censored]ty OCs and poorly rigged models.
Except... y'know, you're right, and [censored]es can't handle the truth. Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: SJS on February 04, 2013, 07:22:04 AM I'll start off with some words of wisdom - Sometimes, no matter how much something tears at you, you just have to keep your damn mouth shut.
I always believed that a person's best critic is themself. Everyone knows their own skills and limits. Some have the drive to try new things and better themselves, while others would rather stay in their comfort zone. Portrait making really helped me get out of my comfort zone and expand my talents. And I did so at my own pace... that is without someone playing pretend game developer on my back. Here's a great idea, why not take all your wisdom and apply it? Open 3DS Max and rig something. Make a model. Anything. Just become a model importer yourself. You might even have fun doing it, which is truly the point of it all. Maybe then people would be able to take your critiques to heart. Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: StarWaffle on February 04, 2013, 07:52:03 AM Some people really do think of this as a hobby though. Like strictly a hobby. Something they do for themselves to have fun.
I would never ever in a million years want to work as a character modeler/texturer/animator or literally anything that has to do with video games in my future. Video games and everything that goes along with it, to me, is not something you should get paid to do. Because it would then become a JOB and no longer a hobby. why would anyone ever want to make their hobby, their one thing they can do to relax, their passtime, their thing they do when not at their JOB into a JOB. I guess a lot of people would argue "BUT YOU CAN MAKE MONEY DOING WHAT YOU LOVE" but to me if I make money off of it, it wouldn't be fun anymore. I do these things because I don't have to do them. I share what I make with random people on the internet and if they like it, that's cool too. I shouldn't have to feel like I owe it to anyone to make things better, so long as I am happy with what I made. and for someone to come in and tell me what I do in my free time is bad or unworthy to be shown to the public, is a little insane. lol I tell people their stuff is bad all the time though so I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite =D Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: Albafika on February 04, 2013, 08:03:58 AM When I read the title on the Forum Index, I knew it was Velen. lol
why would anyone ever want to make their hobby, their one thing they can do to relax, their passtime, their thing they do when not at their JOB into a JOB. I guess a lot of people would argue "BUT YOU CAN MAKE MONEY DOING WHAT YOU LOVE" but to me if I make money off of it, it wouldn't be fun anymore. I do these things because I don't have to do them. I share what I make with random people on the internet and if they like it, that's cool too. Easy. If you like programming, and you can get paid for doing so, why spend 4 years studying something you dislike to live off it all your life than actually do what you love? To be good at something, you have to like it, as well.I shouldn't have to feel like I owe it to anyone to make things better, so long as I am happy with what I made. Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: BlueBrain on February 04, 2013, 08:13:29 AM velen, please, start trying to rig/import something, after that, as star said, people will probably take ur critique a bit less.. u know, how they take it, also, there are a loooooot of ways to say things, you can say the exact same thing without hurting people, and that's your real problem when "expressing your opinion", you have absolutely no right to humiliate, insult, and offend people for something they do as a hobby
Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: Velen on February 04, 2013, 08:24:12 AM inb4 noobs ignore the wall of text and belittle you for wanting quality in a Vault riddled with [censored]ty OCs and poorly rigged models. Except... y'know, you're right, and [censored]es can't handle the truth. Though you'd probably right in a lot of cases LC, that's not the case here, I think...So far. Here's a great idea, why not take all your wisdom and apply it? Open 3DS Max and rig something. Make a model. Anything. Just become a model importer yourself. You might even have fun doing it, which is truly the point of it all. Maybe then people would be able to take your critiques to heart. (I did read the rest of your post, I just truncated to the part I felt I would be best to answer) (Spoilered for length.) Some people really do think of this as a hobby though. Like strictly a hobby. Something they do for themselves to have fun. I would never ever in a million years want to work as a character modeler/texturer/animator or literally anything that has to do with video games in my future. Video games and everything that goes along with it, to me, is not something you should get paid to do. Because it would then become a JOB and no longer a hobby. why would anyone ever want to make their hobby, their one thing they can do to relax, their passtime, their thing they do when not at their JOB into a JOB. I guess a lot of people would argue "BUT YOU CAN MAKE MONEY DOING WHAT YOU LOVE" but to me if I make money off of it, it wouldn't be fun anymore. I do these things because I don't have to do them. I share what I make with random people on the internet and if they like it, that's cool too. I shouldn't have to feel like I owe it to anyone to make things better, so long as I am happy with what I made. and for someone to come in and tell me what I do in my free time is bad or unworthy to be shown to the public, is a little insane. lol I tell people their stuff is bad all the time though so I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite =D I understand, and that's your right. lol At that last part. xD @Joke: I don't need you to tell me what people have basically already said to me, Joke. I'm going to work toward giving reviews more privately from now on. Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: SJS on February 04, 2013, 09:27:40 AM And why should your ideals of quality be pushed upon everyone else?
Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: zutox on February 04, 2013, 09:53:38 AM While I do agree that having other suggest positive changes for their models or other hacks, not everything you see as good is good for everyone else.
Take the fact that you want to see a character that fits in naturally in brawl, that it was there from before. You know, brawlified. I on the other hand want my characters to look as different as possible, to make my brawl a splatter of different graphics and characters that really really stands out from everything else in the game. That is what I like to see because i think that was half the point with brawl mods. Your own wonder brawl. So I say that while giving critique is good, better be sure to add in: "In my personal opinion" :) Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: LC-DDM on February 04, 2013, 03:51:55 PM But is it really his opinion, though? I mean, have you seen KTH's [censored]? It's all rushed. It's like he doesn't give a [censored]. The model could T-pose all the time and he would still probably release it because "LOL NEW CHARACTER DOWNLOAD PLZ".
Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: ??_? on February 04, 2013, 08:09:37 PM There isn't anything wrong with constructive criticism. There is, however, a problem when you post stuff like this. (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=51638.msg1032907#msg1032907) Just don't be mean. Really. It's that easy. There's always going to be low quality stuff around, and everyone is 100% against any other method of organizing content on the vault for one void reason or another, so you just have to deal with it without being an [censored]. By all means, tell them what they can do better, point them to a tutorial.
I don't really feel the need to say any more here, because I've already said it there. (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=51638.msg1033182#msg1033182) Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: Segtendo on February 04, 2013, 11:24:15 PM By looking at the last few posts, I've been wondering: why are you brushing off other peoples' suggestions? Do they not matter to you?
Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: TailsxPokemonxBrawler222 on February 09, 2013, 09:24:40 AM But is it really his opinion, though? I mean, have you seen KTH's [censored]? It's all rushed. It's like he doesn't give a [censored]. The model could T-pose all the time and he would still probably release it because "LOL NEW CHARACTER DOWNLOAD PLZ". um well first that never happens second his hacks are so much better than urs its unbelievable why would u post something like that on a thread about a topic like this? Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: Pik on February 09, 2013, 11:28:38 AM (First off, I'm on my phone, so it'll be hard for me to type huge paragraphs. I just wanna make a few points.)
As an artist, it's a very bad thing to just stay in your comfort zone and not try to improve. As a modder, I think the priority is to make mods for other people's entertainment- therefore, you should try your best, right? You want other people to have fun with your stuff. Go that extra mile, listen to feedback. Take the fact that you want to see a character that fits in naturally in brawl, that it was there from before. You know, brawlified. I on the other hand want my characters to look as different as possible, to make my brawl a splatter of different graphics and characters that really really stands out from everything else in the game. That is what I like to see because i think that was half the point with brawl mods. Your own wonder brawl. I'm quite against this concept- mixing models from other games with Brawl's is style mixing, and it's aestheticly clashing. Why would you want something to look out of place, deliberately? It's called consistancy and polish, broseph. Why do you think they made Toon link fit in with the other characters? Variety is good and all, but you don't do it by making things look like they're not supposed to be there. Harmomy is lost. Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: LC-DDM on February 09, 2013, 12:15:44 PM um well first that never happens second his hacks are so much better than urs its unbelievable why would u post something like that on a thread about a topic like this? BWEE BWEE RAGING FANBOY ALERT On a more serious note... bull[censored] it never happens, EVERYONE who isn't a 12-year-old complains about the holes in the models, or how much poor rigging his models have. Or hell, the quality of the models altogether. Also, "oh his hacks are so much better than urs". Maybe so, but I don't release [censored] half-finished and deem it complete. And you wanna know why I posted what I did? It's because of idiots like you, who don't care about quality and think it's unfair when someone says the truth, or that maybe a thing or two could stand to be better. Maybe not at a critical point like Velen, but [censored], how many years has KTH had to be here? Why is he STILL doing the same mistakes? Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: Miacis on February 09, 2013, 12:32:36 PM It's interesting how both Pik and StarWaflle seem to be offering reasonnable, yet contradictory concepts...
This is how I see it: There will always be two large tendancies in creators and artists in general There's the Hobby aspect of things. People leaning more towards that side do things "as a hobby" and would rather have complete control over their creation than satisfying the quality standards of a few. Their satisfaction resides in the process of making what they like more than in the end result. And there's the Self-Improvement aspect of things. People leaning more towards that side do things "to get better" and would be more prone to changing their methods and adapting to what third parties require them to do, even if it goes against their own comfort. Their satisfaction resides in the end result, and the overall progression of their skills, more than their enjoyment of the creation process. Of course, that doesn't mean StarWaffle doesn't want to improve at all, and doesn't care how his hacks end up. And that doesn't mean Pik is suffering when making hacks . But from what I understand, it's kind of a pattern, that creators seem to find very different satisfactions in the creation process. And to me, neither is more right or wrong than the other. So yes, Velen, you will always find hackers who refuse your criticism and will decide to keep things going their way and not yours. But that's because you're trying to push them on a path which is not the one they've chosen. And then, there's also the mean thing that LordNoah rightfully mentionned. There are more positive ways to bring about improvement than pointing fingers and saying things are bad. (Also, isn't this the third topic about criticism that you bring up?) Title: Re: Why I critique things the way I do: An Explanation. Post by: Albafika on February 09, 2013, 01:10:26 PM Hmm, I should go make a thread about why I make the stuff I do or why I treat people the way I do. I don't see how can people care of this stuff.
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