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Title: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 06, 2010, 07:37:58 AM I've decided to revive my Shadow the Hedgehog PSA project and I plan on creating the absolute perfect Shadow (since I was unsatisfied with mastaklo's PSA in multiple ways). However, in order to do that I really need feedback from you guys on what exactly I should do. I have some moveset ideas in my thread, however I will need help "balancing" him as well as making him a genuine Shadow. For those of you that can't be bothered to see the topic, here's what I have for the specials:
ENTIRE MOVESET Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Quickman on December 06, 2010, 01:46:51 PM Sounds pretty good, my question is, how will you have him switch between Super Shadow and Regular Shadow?
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 06, 2010, 01:49:52 PM Sounds pretty good, my question is, how will you have him switch between Super Shadow and Regular Shadow? Ah, didn't make myself too clear there. They will be two seperate PSAs. Regular Shadow will be balanced, Super Shadow will be broken. I don't think there would be enough file space for both of them to fit in one PSA :P Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Soverign on December 06, 2010, 02:32:24 PM Well, I watched this video, and some things you might wanna add.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPFVPcCA3Bg and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVsAMLrwXwQ IDK how about a ItemHandSmash animation for Shadow's foward Smash instead of that retarded Forward Smash that Sonic has? Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Hollow on December 06, 2010, 02:35:38 PM Quote from: SDoom What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Shadow. Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Master_Ryuk on December 06, 2010, 02:41:04 PM i like this, but please, i beg you, make it as fast as sonic.
(or more if possible :) ) Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: hughie on December 06, 2010, 03:51:44 PM Fisrt things first, here are some of my idea(Although pretty hard)
I think his run could swith from him Skating and Him riding a motercycle(D-Taunt) and i found this possible by BigBadBooya's Sonic W/ Dragoon. His DSmash could be chaos blast, since its not in the specials, he could also have chaos rift as a attack as well. His Fsmash should be Chaos Nightmare, and the USmash could be either a regular uppercut, or a Front/BackFlip kick. Thats all i have and thanks for reading. :P Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Hollow on December 06, 2010, 04:11:06 PM I could give Shadow Wario's bike.
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: ShadowMarth on December 06, 2010, 05:27:14 PM I'm looking forward to this psa.
Here's an idea but I'm not sure what move u should do this for or how to make this happen but U could give him the chaos control move that the assist trophy of him has. Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 07, 2010, 12:25:54 AM I like the Bike/Vehicle idea. I think I'll make it so you can do the following:
If you use the Up Taunt, you will be able to switch from "Chaos" to "Hardcore" mode. In Chaos mode, you will be able to use the Side B Chaos Spear and the Down B Black Tornado In Hardcore mode, you will be able to use the Side B Machine Gun and the Down B Motorbike. Oh yeah and @Hollow, you don't need to. Wario's bike is actually an ITEM NOT and article. So anybody can use it/throw it (but only Wario can ride it unless I do some work to make Shadow ride it). Also, I'm using a lot of moves from Sonic Battle too. Here's a sprite sheet to give you and idea: - The F Tilt will be a two handed swipe (end of 10th/start of 11th line) - The F Smash will be a backfist (end of 6th line) - The D Smash will be the double Chaos fists (end of 11th line/start of 12th line - The U Smash will be a flipkick (see Full Throttle Sonic and Hyper Sonic) - The U Air will also be a flip (middle of the 3rd line) I really want to create a diverse and well rounded Shadow so I'm afraid he'll still have to be slower than Sonic Master_Ryuk (otherwise he will be imbalanced as he will be stronger than Sonic). Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: hughie on December 07, 2010, 05:14:30 AM About the F-Smash and D-Smash, TheWill/Darkshade already has animations for those in the Shadow over Fox psa.
And riding the WarioBike would be possible if you model replace something like the spring/sphere and generating it on the Run while shadow has a riding animation. Just sayin. Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Hollow on December 07, 2010, 05:18:28 AM I'm seriously thinking of revamping my Shadow PSA because it sucked so much.....
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: hughie on December 07, 2010, 05:20:36 AM I'm seriously thinking of revamping my Shadow PSA because it sucked so much..... You forgot about the "Others" tab.Thats what made Shadow into a ball in some animations. I learned that the hard way. D: Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 07, 2010, 07:01:12 AM About the F-Smash and D-Smash, TheWill/Darkshade already has animations for those in the Shadow over Fox psa. And riding the WarioBike would be possible if you model replace something like the spring/sphere and generating it on the Run while shadow has a riding animation. Just sayin. Actually, I've already creatied the animations myself using Brawlbox (I cannot stress enough how much I love Brawlbox 4.1, it makes animating so much easier) and they came out pretty smooth. And also, I don't even think that I need to replace the model since like I said, Wario's Bike is an item. I may be able to just generate it in PSA. It would save file space. However, I will examine how BigBadBooya did it in his PSA for Sonic riding the Dragoon. Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Hollow on December 07, 2010, 03:01:00 PM I just read your moveset, and you can't have 0.5 damage for an attack. It would freeze.
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 07, 2010, 03:09:49 PM I just read your moveset, and you can't have 0.5 damage for an attack. It would freeze. Oh oops, that's not "1/2", I mean 1% or 2%. Also, I thought of another idea: Down B (Air - Hardcore Mode): Handglider - Shadow whips out a handglider (it will be the Dragoon but recoloured) and glides back onto the stage. Once the glide is released, he automatically goes into Special Fall. The glider itself can do damage if it hits. 5% The handglider was from Sonic 06 (terrible game, but at least it gave me a decent idea). This is mainly so that I don't have to have any aerial subactions for the bike. I took a look at Wario's Side B, and the number of subactions it has is scary... Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Velen on December 07, 2010, 04:18:21 PM I....really don't know how to suggest moves for Hardcore mode...I guess I just don't know what is considered Hardcore for Shadow...
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: ChaosEpsilon613 on December 07, 2010, 05:32:39 PM Awesomeness!!!
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: zeno503 on December 08, 2010, 10:55:27 PM This sounds so sweet. Question though, will this be on Shadow over Sonic or Shadow over Fox? Like I said, the Shadow over Fox could use some retouching and hearing your progress it sounds like this will be promising.
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 09, 2010, 12:23:23 AM This sounds so sweet. Question though, will this be on Shadow over Sonic or Shadow over Fox? Like I said, the Shadow over Fox could use some retouching and hearing your progress it sounds like this will be promising. Over Sonic I'm afraid. I can't really work very well with model ports. That, and I'm not actually editing mastaklo's Shadow. I'm using a fresh FitSonic.pac file for this. Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: zeno503 on December 09, 2010, 10:55:52 AM Aw that's a shame, but still sounds promising so looking forward to the PSA anyways.
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Soverign on December 09, 2010, 05:02:48 PM A ItemHandSmash for his forward smash that stuns people, then sweetspots.
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: JustChadMichael on December 10, 2010, 01:04:57 PM Honestly for this to be the perfect Shadow it has to be based off of his history of attacks from any game he was featured in, "Sonic Battle" for the game boy advance is perfect (IMO) his general moveset, his moves from SA2 battle, like light speed, homing, chaos control and chaos spear obv.
Even moves iirc from Sonic Heroes, and BAM! the perfect Shadow in the history of histories ;D Just study those games (Sonic Battle mostly) and you will be on the road to actually creating the Ultimate Lifeform lol Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: hughie on December 10, 2010, 02:38:59 PM Honestly for this to be the perfect Shadow it has to be based off of his history of attacks from any game he was featured in, "Sonic Battle" for the game boy advance is perfect (IMO) his general moveset, his moves from SA2 battle, like light speed, homing, chaos control and chaos spear obv. Forgetting a game......Even moves iirc from Sonic Heroes, and BAM! the perfect Shadow in the history of histories ;D Just study those games (Sonic Battle mostly) and you will be on the road to actually creating the Ultimate Lifeform lol Sonic Chronicles Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 10, 2010, 03:01:19 PM Oh btw guys, I've decided that he won't be able to use the Chaos Spear in the air. Reason being because of the fact that in the air, false ThrowN projectiles (which is what the Chaos Spear will be) always are affected by gravity unless you make it so the character doesn't fall, however if I do that he will have an extremely cheap stalling trick so here's what I have instead:
Side B Air(Chaos): Chaotic Hurricane - Shadow warps forward then does a spinning hurricane kick Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku style. A good, fast and unpredictable move with good power but fairly hard to connect all the hits. 15% Once I do the animation for this, all the animations will be DONE by the way. Then I will work on the textures for the Bike and Dragoon, then I will start the PSA o.O Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: JustChadMichael on December 11, 2010, 06:32:34 AM Dragoon? Chaotic Hurricane? o.O?
Ok am I the only one who thinks there should be a true Shadow with his true moves? >.>; Chaos Control?, Light Speed attack?, Chaos Spear?, Spin Dash? or Homing attack? We need the one and only true Shadow in Brawl D; *sobs* Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: JustChadMichael on December 11, 2010, 06:38:44 AM Oh btw guys, I've decided that he won't be able to use the Chaos Spear in the air. Reason being because of the fact that in the air, false ThrowN projectiles (which is what the Chaos Spear will be) always are affected by gravity unless you make it so the character doesn't fall, however if I do that he will have an extremely cheap stalling trick Couldn't Chaos Spear be just like Sheiks needle in the Air? Just change the needles into mini Wolf blaster shots, colored yellow and given Homing properties? Profit Anyone??? Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: hughie on December 11, 2010, 06:47:47 AM Moves He NEEDS to have
-Chaos Blast -Chaos Spear -Chaos Control -Guns -Chaos Rift -Black Tornado Moves He might Have Chaos Blast(Variation, he does a moves similar to lucario's FS, but much faster and weaker.) Chaos Nightmare Oh btw guys, I've decided that he won't be able to use the Chaos Spear in the air. Reason being because of the fact that in the air, false ThrowN projectiles (which is what the Chaos Spear will be) always are affected by gravity unless you make it so the character doesn't fall, however if I do that he will have an extremely cheap stalling trick Couldn't Chaos Spear be just like Sheiks needle in the Air? Just change the needles into mini Wolf blaster shots, colored yellow and given Homing properties? Profit Anyone??? Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 11, 2010, 08:37:23 AM @Hax
He has almost all of those except for the Chaos Rift. I was thinking about it though, but I wasn't too sure how to do it. @JustChadMichael As for stuff like the Spin Dash, I simply didn't want to put it in. I wouldn't be able to edit in anyway to make it seem like a different move from Sonic's Spin Dash. It would be boring. Remember that whilst this is a suggestions thread, it's not a request thread. A lot of the ideas will be my own and will still fit Shadow. It's called being creative and mixing things up. I always like to add my own creative flair to a moveset (like I did with Viewtiful Joe). As far as the Chaos Spear goes, I'm using this: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=8982 And the thing that you said about the Chaos Spear in the air is physically impossible. You see, fake projectiles can only last as long as the animation and since making the attack home in on an opponent is physically impossible (or at least I don't know how to do it), the attack would have to go in a straight line. However, in order for it to go in a straight line, Shadow cannot move from the place he initiated the attack (i.e. he'd have to float in place, meaning he could stall the attack endlessly). Ironically, although I named him "Perfect Shadow", he won't be perfect since it would be impossible to fit the needs of every Shadow fan in existance. My goal really is to simply make a better, more balanced and more genuine Shadow than mastaklo did. And besides, I've almost reached the FitSonic.pac file limit and I haven't even started on the PSA yet ¬_¬ I've now finished all the animations and stuff so I have to be very careful about what I do in PSA. *sigh* Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Soverign on December 11, 2010, 08:44:59 AM SDoom, What have you done so far?
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 11, 2010, 08:49:30 AM SDoom, What have you done so far? All the animations and model swaps. Now comes the tricky part of the PSA. This will take a lot of trial and error :P Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Soverign on December 11, 2010, 08:58:01 AM SDoom, What have you done so far? All the animations and model swaps. Now comes the tricky part of the PSA. This will take a lot of trial and error :P Dang I sure wish you could teach me how to PSA. Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: DivineOverlord on December 11, 2010, 09:33:05 AM SDoom, What have you done so far? All the animations and model swaps. Now comes the tricky part of the PSA. This will take a lot of trial and error :P haha that's true. looking forward to this :D Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Maverick-Pro on December 11, 2010, 09:42:02 AM For those wondering about a port over another character:
As long as his Shadow PSA does not contain Homing Attack, Spindash, and "Super Shadow", the PSA can be almost perfectly ported to Donkey Kong with only the double jump needed to fix. This Shadow PSA sounds a lot better than mine over Donkey Kong (which the .pac file got corrupted..... ugggh). Can't wait. Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 11, 2010, 09:57:02 AM Lol, I've already exceeded the file size limit for Shadow XD (the limit according to Mr N is 544KB, I'm currently on 592KB and have done nothing with the PSA XD).
HOWEVER, I have a plan! I'm gonna remove the Dragoon glide to free up some space. Then, I'm gonna do the Chaos Rift (because I now have a decent idea for what to do with it) for Chaos mode, and Black Tornado for the hardcore mode (Down B). Here is how they will work: Down B (Chaos): Chaos Rift - Shadow creates a black hole just in front of him that is able to reflect projectiles and disorientate enemies. Once you release the move, there is a small black explosion which damages foes. 8% Down B (Hardcore): Black Tornado - Shadow spins round and upwards at high speeds to gain a lot of height. This is primarily a defensive technique, able to push foes outwards as well as working as a good recovery move. Not to mention that you can follow up with the Up B afterwards for massive recovery. Be warned though, you can only gain vertical height with this move THE FIRST TIME YOU USE IT (before hitting the ground). Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: ChaosEpsilon613 on December 11, 2010, 10:18:55 AM If this can be ported over donkey kong I would download instantly!!! (even if it can't I'd still dowload it)
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Link40 on December 11, 2010, 11:39:52 AM If this can be ported over donkey kong I would download instantly!!! (even if it can't I'd still dowload it) With the clone engine it'll be not needed to port anymore. Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: ChaosEpsilon613 on December 11, 2010, 12:00:31 PM But it isn't ready yet, right.
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Spacrigga on December 11, 2010, 04:09:34 PM Nope :(
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 11, 2010, 04:28:50 PM Sorry to say this guys, but he won't be able to use the Bike either. The file size will be way too big (seriously, the amount of file size that the Bike adds is ridiculous).
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SSJCerious on December 11, 2010, 04:53:28 PM Sorry to say this guys, but he won't be able to use the Bike either. The file size will be way too big (seriously, the amount of file size that the Bike adds is ridiculous). Dat sucks...Im really looking forward to this: all of the other sonic psas are either overpowered or just meh. Good luck!Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Maverick-Pro on December 11, 2010, 06:44:30 PM Can't you just put the Bike in the FitSonicEntry file then use it as a GFX for in PSA? That's what I did for my Shadow.
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: ToddL on December 11, 2010, 07:54:24 PM A lot of the moves that you've proposed sound very cool. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
I realize you're already very far along and it's too late for suggestions like this, but since you asked: Quote What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Pretend that the Shadow the Hedgehog game doesn't exist.No bike. No guns. They were an interesting(sorta) but ultimately poor design choice in the source game and they will be the same in Brawl. Use them in taunts and the entry, if you want to, but not the moves. There's a reason Snake's moveset doesn't have any bullets in it. Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: Master_Ryuk on December 12, 2010, 01:12:39 AM A lot of the moves that you've proposed sound very cool. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I realize you're already very far along and it's too late for suggestions like this, but since you asked: Quote What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Pretend that the Shadow the Hedgehog game doesn't exist.No bike. No guns. They were an interesting(sorta) but ultimately poor design choice in the source game and they will be the same in Brawl. Use them in taunts and the entry, if you want to, but not the moves. There's a reason Snake's moveset doesn't have any bullets in it. well, you are right, using weapons like pistols in brawl is kinda cheap, i have used some PSA that uses weapons and even that they have lag, they were cheap (comparing it with a balanced PSA) but admit it, shadow looks a hell lot cooler with guns. Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 12, 2010, 01:35:30 AM A lot of the moves that you've proposed sound very cool. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I realize you're already very far along and it's too late for suggestions like this, but since you asked: Quote What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Pretend that the Shadow the Hedgehog game doesn't exist.No bike. No guns. They were an interesting(sorta) but ultimately poor design choice in the source game and they will be the same in Brawl. Use them in taunts and the entry, if you want to, but not the moves. There's a reason Snake's moveset doesn't have any bullets in it. You're probably right in a sense, but it still doesn't change the fact that a lot of people do want to see the guns etc incorporated as moves whilst quite a few don't. This is the reason why I'm making modes for Shadow. So that people have the ability to choose whether they want to use Shadows regular Chaos Attacks, or his weapons. Can't you just put the Bike in the FitSonicEntry file then use it as a GFX for in PSA? That's what I did for my Shadow. Actually, this could work. As long as it still stays within the FitSonicEntry.pac limit it would be fine. EDIT: Actually there is one teenee tiny problem.... Sonic doesn't have a FitSonicEntry.pac.....I could however use the FitSonicFinal.pac? Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SSJCerious on December 12, 2010, 06:04:04 AM You should give him falcos throw if you want to include guns.
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 12, 2010, 01:32:26 PM Ok I've updated the entire OP with the entire updated moveset. Whaddya guys think?
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SSJCerious on December 12, 2010, 01:35:56 PM Nice! For his machine gun, will it be an actual gun? Or will you do it like the master cheif PSA, where it LOOKs like hes holding a gun?
Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on December 12, 2010, 01:38:53 PM Nice! For his machine gun, will it be an actual gun? Or will you do it like the master cheif PSA, where it LOOKs like hes holding a gun? Actual gun. Although I'm finding it difficult at the moment to find a good looking model to use. The Super Scope takes up FAR too much space unfortunately, and I've tried other ones but they also take up too much space. I'm currently using a grenade launcher for a machine gun by xxTerminatorxx XD I need something like that though. A model import with only one texture file. Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: SSJCerious on December 12, 2010, 01:41:56 PM Nice! For his machine gun, will it be an actual gun? Or will you do it like the master cheif PSA, where it LOOKs like hes holding a gun? Actual gun. Although I'm finding it difficult at the moment to find a good looking model to use. The Super Scope takes up FAR too much space unfortunately, and I've tried other ones but they also take up too much space. I'm currently using a grenade launcher for a machine gun by xxTerminatorxx XD I need something like that though. A model import with only one texture file. Title: Re: What do you guys want for the new Shadow PSA? Post by: tentonhamma on December 18, 2010, 02:34:28 PM I think you should put ROB's Bair and Dair for shadow. He would do that with his shoes.
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