I thought I'd start this thread because I'm never too sure what does and what doesn't cause online desync.
I'm going to list what people know here, for reference for other hackers.
What causes Wifi Desync?Any ♦ Indicates exceptions. Click them for more info.
Characters:
- Renamed bones
- Altered Bone index's ♦ (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=22169.msg420266#msg420266)
- Animation edits ♦ (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=22169.msg420524#msg420524)
- PSA's
Stages:
- Collision changes
- Altered Death boundary
- Edited Spawn/Respawn points
- Models in motion (moving across the screen etc.)
Quote from: DrPanda on March 27, 2011, 08:43:34 PM
I thought I'd start this thread because I'm never too sure what does and what doesn't cause online desync.
I'm going to list what people know here, for reference for other hackers.
What causes Wifi Desync?
- Renamed bones (?)
- Altered Bone index's (?)
This is a good thread idea, and indeed, those do desync, also animation edits, like Susano, or other one slot mods, not to mention just even the slightest changes to animations can cause a desync.
I'd assume PSAs would also desynch Wifi. But this is nothing more than a logical assumption.
Quote from: SiLeNtDo0m on March 27, 2011, 09:08:33 PM
I'd assume PSAs would also desynch Wifi. But this is nothing more than a logical assumption.
Obviously. :P
But yeah, PSAs are 100% guaranteed to desync, even if one move alone is changed, or even something as simple as a taunt.
umm...
animation edits may not necissarily desync wifi :/
eg
my import method requires me to keep the animation length the same
for the bones you'll add to them
now, even though it has completely different bones from brawl's
(excluding the ones used by the logic (PSA) and scripts (.rel)),
it should still be compatible online since all the original bones:
are supported
have not been edited or changed
have the same animation length
more possible reasons I havn't yet thought of :P
but you can also edit an original animation, and as long as it's the same length,
it should be compatible and not desync wifi...
(since animation/char data is only locally affected)
you may ask me if you think something may/may-not desync wifi... :)
(as long as you just need a 'Yes' or 'No' for something you are unsure of)
I recently found out (after UL-ing) my FS texture edit for Pika doesn't work online...
you just stand there and can attack others on your wii (FS doesn't activate),
while on the opponent's end, you're using your FS
^I'm still looking for a fix
if you need any more on the game vs wifi, or have any Q's on it,
feel free to ask :)
(I can't garuntee you'll recieve a quick answer, but I'll see what I can do) :|
maybe you aught to have a character and stage section for this?
...
So as long as animation edits are the same length and do not affect the original bone tree, they will be ok to use online? :-\
That seems a bit odd to add to the list, considering you are the only one who has done this (as far as I know).
Quote from: LordNOaH on March 27, 2011, 10:30:26 PM
maybe you aught to have a character and stage section for this?
Ah, Nice idea ;)
Hm... With stages, it depends... If the collision data is the same, then there's a good chance it will work, however, for example, some space Battlefield, and a rainy Battlefield, even though the collision data was the same, for some reason it desynced... However on the flip side, that Subspace Battlefield worked just fine, so I have NO idea why sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't...
No need to say that stages that are completely custom will desync 100% of the time. (Collision data changed, stage hazards removed/added... Etc etc.)
pretty much any collision change will desync. This includes the changing of types of floor materials, such as adding splash effects. Death boundary changes will desync, character spawn points and respawn points will desync, and moving of models such as smashville's balloon will desync. There's probably more just in the stgposition models I'm not thinking of.
Quote from: DrPanda on March 27, 2011, 10:33:19 PM
...
So as long as animation edits are the same length and do not affect the original bone tree, they will be ok to use online? :-\
I'm sry...
I should restate that...
you can edit the bone tree in some animations
(all animations with my method)
but there's a few reasons why it desyncs...
let me list a few of those:
animation length not being equal on both wii's
different attack behaviors (better done through logic editing (PSA))
any modified animation dealing with the opponent (not entirely sure of this one)
my method:
I'm putting Pachi over Pika yes,
you will be able to use all 4 Pika's (or 3 and 1 pachi :P)
will not desync (hopefully)
^I'm making him basically a clone of Pika
(he'll move exactly like Pika (throws/grabs/strengths/etc... will all be the same))
so if this works like I'm thinking, it shouldn't desync...
note:
I'm not using Pika's rig.
I'm using the main bones for positioning.
and I'm using pachi's rig to animate...
I'm adding his bones to the already existing chr0 files
so that's the trick behind my method:
Give the char a seperate instance controlled by seperate animations,
while using only the neccessary bones to position the char.note:
you will have to move the first bone of the import opposite of the HipN bone
in order to center your char. (this includes rotation)
Ah, Thats a bit simpler for me to understand :P
So am I right in assuming that it is infact not one-slot size mods that cause desync, but rather the character being modded?
(I'm looking forward to Pachirisu btw ;))
Altered bone indexes don't always cause desyncs, my Zero is proof of this. As long as you don't change the indexes of bones that the character uses to move (TransN, XRotN, YRotN, etc.) or attack with, then it's safe.
PSA's don't necessarily cause desyncs. Editing the sounds in PSA doesn't cause desyncs.
Quote from: DrPanda on March 28, 2011, 01:51:35 PM
Ah, Thats a bit simpler for me to understand :P
So am I right in assuming that it is infact not one-slot size mods that cause desync, but rather the character being modded?
(I'm looking forward to Pachirisu btw ;))
not all mods will cause desync as long as they're allowd "compatibility"...
meaning they will not affect positioning of either char on the opponents wii
(there's alot to describe in the area)
btw, thanx :)
Quote from: Beyond on March 28, 2011, 03:56:10 PM
Altered bone indexes don't always cause desyncs, my Zero is proof of this. As long as you don't change the indexes of bones that the character uses to move (TransN, XRotN, YRotN, etc.) or attack with, then it's safe.
those would be the neccessary needed bones I talked about earlier ;)
as long as you don't mod them, well...
I don't really need to say anything further :P
Quote from: Pram on March 28, 2011, 06:28:23 PM
PSA's don't necessarily cause desyncs. Editing the sounds in PSA doesn't cause desyncs.
true, but that's not on the area we're talking about...
we're talking about editing action and library values in the logic.
sry to single you out like that :P
I've quoted and 'loosely' edited your info, Tcll. (Simply so I can link it all to one post in the OP... If you want me to change the wording or add to it, just ask ;))
Quote from: Tcll (loosely edited) on March 28, 2011, 02:33:18 AMNot all mods will cause desync as long as they're allowed "compatibility"...
meaning they will not affect positioning of either char on the opponents wii
Animation edits might desync wifi if:
Animation length is not equal to the length of the original
Attack behaviors have been altered (better done through logic editing (PSA))
(?) Modified animations that deal with the opponent (Grabs/Throws etc.)
@DrP:
yur ok :)
that looks about right :)