Kitty Corp Meow Mix Forums

Heya people--Just hear me out on this one. There's a trend I've noticed going around recently, and I've always had this on my mind but have never really said it. Bright colors are cool and all, but simply upping the saturation isn't gonna make it look good.

Here are some points I thought up:
-The colors don't even resemble Smash 4
-The skin becomes an orange-ish oompa loompa spray tan. Don't saturate the skin, please.
-It doesn't work on all characters, like Marth for example. His color scheme calls for a midnight blue, and it's a calming color that's supposed to be cool. When you up the saturation, it looks more obnoxious. 

Here's how people tend to view smash 4 style:
(http://content.screencast.com/users/PikPixelart/folders/Jing/media/80c503d5-66ee-42f9-b738-183d26cb506f/2014-01-19_1353.png)
And here's how it actually looks:
(http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/402/4020844/2370130-8478348905-zlCfzRLiq2keGL0SJx)

You feel me?

I think the interest comes from it being very easy to do, and is hard to make it look like a "hack job" (no pun intended) I'm guilty of making a saturated Charizard, but yeah he is a dragon-ish thing, also made another one of him super bright green with rim lighting to make him "glow" but at least I took my time to smooth lines, touch up discolored parts and applied some filters and some freehand stuff on highlights to further make him look like he glows.

Just praise the lord that most people are refraining from using MS paint.

I feel you, glad I'm not the only one that thought this. Skin for sure is the thing that's most obnoxious under the effects, but sadly, the laziest ones aren't willing to make the effort to unmask just the skin. Effort!

Oh god there are like 15 new ones on the vault, why does this keep happening

Also, thanks for sympathizing with my pain, guys.

Just stop browsing the brawlvault. It's not worth it.

Words to live by

Sympathizing? No, no, I just want to see you suffer (http://fnbv.tumblr.com/).

People love to abuse the saturation slide too much.

You want to know what's ironic?

Other users have made threads to complain about some of the poorly done stuff on the Vault, and they were met with negative criticism and arguments. I don't see why you and this thread should get a pass.

There will always be poorly done Mods on the Vault. The Vault is a big example for Sturgeon's Law.

In the end this is just fun, it's not serious business and for most people even getting wiibrew to work is an accomplishment with all the over-easy to use UI out there the new generation is surprisingly not so tech savvy.
Do I think poorly done hacks should be posted? no, but do I care? not so much.

I do agree, I agree a lot but there being ugly hacks isn't going to make the Vault terrible. I mean, the people doing these saturation recolors are the newbies to Brawl modding so let them be newbies, they'll learn in time. We're still getting recolored Sonic Shadow hacks and recolored Sonic fan character hacks when importing is already big.

Would it be nice if they weren't here? Yes. Is it going to stop such people from doing so? Most likely not so it's best to just not care.

Just because they do this sort of [censored] doesn't mean it's suddenly "okay" to make [censored]ty hacks and upload them everywhere.

It's even worse when there's enablers just like these last two saying "hey its okay to make [censored]".

I agree that the Vault is mostly poor in quality, but I was just stating the irony of this thread, due to every other thread being met with backlash, arguments, and trolling. I just didn't think this thread should get a pass for whatever reason.

One way to tell if a person is a noob or a new person is to see if they can take criticism.

Currently, most of us are just making threads and posts to complain about poor mods on the Vault. We should at least try to make a difference. Even if we think it will have a minuscule impact. If a user makes a thread for their mods, don't be afraid to make a post with proper criticism of their work. Just make sure you avoid saying their work flat out sucks (even if it is true most of the time).

Seriously, it's like everybody wants to make their own "Wii U version" to the point that every smash bros U has  at probably even 5 versions (in the same browsing character page). Some versions has actual model modifications, but most of them are just saturated textures...
Indeed, Who am I to complain? (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=35711) I don't even make characters with good textures and I do like some of these saturated things, but I agree on the point that there are too many of them to the point that it starts to become depressing now... I wonder if there are now more saturated texture characters than Shadows, Clouds, Roys and Mewtwos.. Nah, not yet.. YET..

Well while we're on the subject of things on the Vault that annoy people...

One thing that grinds my gears is people slapping the Rim effect on every single thing. :L

Rim effects are the new Shadow.

Yeah I [censored]ing went there.

Are you daft, LC? There is no such thing as "enablers" here. There's only those who you think are enablers simply because you don't like what these newbies do. Just because there are better hacks out there doesn't mean they have to try to match or one-up the kind of quality some of us do with our hacks.

That's a completely unreasonable expectation and an unrealistic one at that. That's like expecting the new guy at a job to perform every job perfectly on his very first day with no mistakes. It's not going to happen, and outright shaming them for not being like some of us isn't going to help them improve. Your attitude in regards to these newbies is atrocious, and so are you for having these unreasonable expectations to begin with, and for wanting to hold these newbies to the same standard that you hold the other hackers and modders who have been here many times longer than they.

Normally I don't say anything because I don't want to engage you on issues like these, but I am drawing the line right here. This is unacceptable, no matter how much I agree with the fact there are too many oversaturated textures on the Vault. That doesn't make your shaming right and it doesn't make your attitude right. No matter how in the right you think you are.

You're one to talk, Velen.

If I recall correctly, you made a thread complaining about poor mods on the Vault. (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=51638.msg1032907#msg1032907)

Than after getting backlashed, argued, and trolled, you made a thread with a wall of text of your explanation of your critique. (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=56611.msg1101706#msg1101706)

I don't like it and neither does everyone else in this thread.


There are standards to uphold. I don't know about you, but modding has moved on, and with that so did the horizon for good and bad hacks.

And yet that is what's asked of people nowadays, but that's unrelated.


You're right, how dare I want people do actually to textures of their own instead of just messing with the hue and saturation of a texture!

I mean jesus christ, MS Paint textures are preferrable at this point - at least they MADE something instead of just lazily recoloring it.



You realize you're still being an enabler? You're not actually making them want to improve. "oh no i did something [censored] but that's okay because people will want this sort of thing anyway".

Hypocritical, he is but wrong, he is not. I guess everyone gets fed up at a point I mean that thread was in 2012, 2 years ago, and Velen has seem to have gotten over it.

Yeah.

Him and I came to that conclusion over Skype just a moment ago.

None of these people are going to view this thread and your critiques. Maybe they'll read the OP since it actually explains a few things without being borderline agressive and has pictures, but that's about it.

Then again, why would these people even want to involve themselves in a community like this? If the veterans, the ones that have been practicing the art for years now, are so little supporting and so much demeaning about "standards to uphold", might as well just post [censored] on the Vault instead of getting ridiculed here. .-.

Everyone has to start somewhere, and no, not everyone needs to improve.

In my humble opinion, I think it's just that the rim is becoming a part of the "new gen" hacks, you know, to make them look more "modern"; but well, my standards are pretty low compared to most people around here since I like brawl hacks for playing with them and not just to look for quality.
I must say, it's curious how actual model importers doesn't complain alot about hacks.

Actually, the funny thing about that is that Mewtwo2000 is rim lighting all the Brawl characters while the only others doing rim lightning are some of people who import and the that retexture project, Smash 3. It doesn't even come close to the Shadows considering how uncommon it still is.

This^

Also, there's just too many things to think about before we can even begin to understand why people submit "terrible" hacks. It's no use making a separate thread to rant about it.
I think the 1st post went straight to the point and we've just derailed the topic to rant about "terrible" hacks

In all this time I've been in the vault I've only submited 6 hacks, all of them show my "standards". And while I do enjoy hacks made by some of the more well known users, sometimes those do not meet my standards.

In the end is just a matter of personal preference.

i did my own rim lit charizard for my own radioactive texture before rim lit charizard existed, NOT FUN, only used rim lighting to make it seem like he is glowing, then just released the regular texture because i figured i have it. Double whammy, rim lit and over saturated in a bright color ;^) but the texture took a long time because i had to do alot of filter work, freehand coloring, burning tool and so on, also did eyes and eye lids.

This is why I have started slowly stopped uploading things, no matter what happens someone whines, and then it goes to that hate blog yada yada and so forth. It's a never ending cycle.

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Post Merge: February 01, 2014, 01:31:21 AM

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What pisses me off more, is this "over saturation" thing that is getting popular/annoying was my thing before Smash 4 was announced. Now anytime I post anything, I look like an [censored].

The thing is.. From what I've personally seen.. You don't get much complains if you are an importer and put new characterss, but if you are editing a regular character, it seems you have to do alot of work to don't have any complain.

I agree with you, saturation is overused and exagerated. But there is no real way to stop it. You have no idea how it feels to see hacks that were obviusly done without any effort and having to "approve" them, because there are no rules against it.

The thing is, the vault is free for everyone to upload what they will. So there'll be new users uploading poor quality stuff, but as KJP said, criticism meant to help them can be given. Some of them may become good modders, most of the veterans here started with no knowledge about it. Eventually people will have to drop this trend of just recoloring and move out to more advanced stuff.

EDIT: you guys are posting really fast. :P

I guess we can say live and let live, right? The people who'll improve will, and the ones who don't have the drive will find something else to do.

This is true. I just imported Sothe and it's barely passable in my opinion. Half of his jaw is bound to his neck along with some problems with his pants (...that came out weird). Some people (I believe) are saying good job as a way to motivate me, which I completely understand. But those that don't really know are saying good job because they just see it and say "Cool, my favorite *insert character name here*!".

And on to Kyouma's second point that it's harder to make new stuff for an old character (recolors and the slow, but new trend of "Wii U" skins). One small mistake and everyone is up in arms (or multiple big mistakes and it makes it to that blog, although I believe entries can get taken down if the creator asks or something).

So much more has to go in to make everyone happy (even though you should really only go about making yourself happy, but that's a different discussion). That's why the furthest I'm ever going to go with textures is recolors for PSA's that I'm working on.

In the end, I don't think there's a right answer, but what Pik said is very true:

It keeps happening!!

Such is the circle of life. by "life" I mean BrawlVault

This will keep happening, we are all tired of something from the vault and yet we don't really care about even making a thread complaining about it... Personally, I am really tired of the PM-only hacks and the never-ending Roy/Mewtwo vault

:happy: Someone should make a Smash 4 Shadow! He needs an HD and ultra accurate texture.
 *Shot*
Honestly most my stuff is original. I prefer to spend my time on things I know no one has done before, might be a bit slower and more difficult, but that's what I find fun to do. Others seem to enjoy simpler edits, or more advanced hacking might be a bit beyond what they know. As long as they are having fun and the community is alive I say let people make what they feel happy with. Besides positive feed back is one of the biggest motivators to move on and advance to newer ways of hacking.

I heard I was being summoned. I am now here.

?

Here we go


Check out his website.

no.

Yes.

Why so rude?

I don't know, I was just trying to be helpful :'(

No, I'm too lazy/not interested right now.

I'm surprised I got around 200 downloads and not really any complaints for my Bowser 2k14, and the animation wasn't really good, especially the 2nd neutral combo attack, which was some awkward kick I just threw in there. But yeah, I have noticed many people complaining about oversaturation.

As a rimlighter I got one good thing to say...


FYI, this thread was talking about OVERSATURATION... not Rim spam, if you all gonna critique specific type of people, try doing it in a different thread instead, I would offer my other most professional opinion about  it. Got it?

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Back on topic:

"If you don't like it, don't download it" Because making a big deal out of it is completely childish and immature, especially when the top ranks do it.

Right on, man, right on. Same can be said about some of the ways I make hacks. I do them for enjoyment, and I don't neccessarily want to get better unless it satisfies one person, me.

well guys, in my humble opinion: There is no better way to show that you don't care about someone's opinion than not even telling them that you don't care.

You can always say you don't care, but deep down inside you do care.

So you keep going at it, this topic lost track and turned into general discussion. The thing is WE ALL CARE, otherwise, why publish them on brawlvault? we share them, meaning we had other people in mind, otherwise we would just use them ourselves and never upload them.  I care about the quality of my hacks because I am sharing them, meaning I think other people would also like the quality and use them. So by using the vault, we are all indirectly showing that we care, at least, a little.

Unsaturated series when

With all the pictures I restored, more than 300 I believe, makes me think that you might be wrong. Do you believe that all of the pictures I restored... only five were great? But all of them were unique!

People do things for fun, and fun doesn't care about whenever they did  something great of not, it was just a hobby... and people tend to share that fun stuff here because they are free to. Not because they want critics, no?

So if you all set the bars of this little limbo game to low, people can just jump over it.

But this isn't the case for over saturation, they are not unique, and they are not great... but the person had fun doing them. And he still does them. So either we continue making a big deal out of it, or we just show how hacks are supposed to be done.

I know what I chose.

I'm not talking about quality overall, I am talking about caring about other people. If you had all that fun while making them, you want to share the hack so people can have fun as well. So you want them to have fun, meaning you kind of care about it. I do not like low quality hacks personally, but have nothing against their creators, some of them enjoy it and will either get better or stop eventually. I like to think we were all noobs at some point. So I try to help them. I just admit that the vault exists because we care about others.

On the topic of over saturation, I found a hack that actually did benefit from it. I never noticed how dull the new shadow imports were, until someone made it blacker and redder and put it next to the original one. It indeed looked better, in my opinion that is.

Makes sense.

Yup. I just realized that. It was my mistake for uploading some of my hacks, thinking that a lot of people would use them. However, I was wrong, as many people pressured me to change. I'm still gonna post a few hacks every now and then, but only hacks which I think, from the knowledge I've gained here and in other internet gaming communities, that a lot of players would like to see, and not the personal ones, which people think are "Uncanny Valley" material, which I'm pretty much the only one on the internet who would like to see them.

Examples of stuff I wouldn't post (but are available via request and PM):

Davey J Yoshi
SuperBirds
Those countless Falco curvy, smooth, leg, foot hacks
Shaved Legs DK

Examples of stuff I would post:
Bowser 2k14
Donkey Kong SSB64 PSA and Animations (I'm working on currently, includes spinning splits Down Smash and double stomp aerial down)
Texture-only edits that are not modifications of the characters' leg/foot models
Curvy Krystal with Armor removed (cause everyone likes Krystal)
And just hacks that I don't take too personally and would laugh if they were on FNBV.

huh, I do a cleanly done multi texture layer hack and it gets only 1 download. bah!

I have tons of unreleased hacks as well. Some because I was just too lazy to complete, but still use in my brawl.

Why not make a section for them on your thread or something? You can always upload them and have them not be on the vault.

loooong ago, I was told that my hacks didnt look actually good with nulled shaders (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=31236) so then after some time I actually took that advice to improve in my  own work (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=36253)
I mean, we understand the fact of using the rim for making a model look good on those times when the model's UV mapping is pretty barely made by the model's author (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=36135)
But there is no excuse if there is a "new version" of a hack with a worse texture! that is the point of this thread, I guess, how the vault is being spammed by those de-evolutions

dude youre taking the FNBV too seriously! ive seen some of my hacks there before too, and I actually see that as free advertising B)

Way I see it there are two correct ways to deal with it. 1- find a bad hack and ignore it or 2- find a bad hack, and offer to help the uploader make it better.

3 - The more experienced modders can just produce more quality stuff to offset the low quality content.

Some might take #2 as an insult.

If some people would even bother with #2 then if it was taken as an insult then they're probably doing something wrong. Just saiyan.

Just telling you, there are some really special people in this world.

You never absolutely know what's going to happen.

The Toyota car one, right? I'd like to inform you that anything tagged "#what" does not imply it's bad. Maybe bad in the "normal" context, but definitely well-made. Just nonsensically humourous.

Okay back to my cave thread.

I didnt make that one lol
but I know my hacks are there more because of the wtf factor :J (like the SSJ3 Ronald, adolf hitler, the mario dressed as madoka, the skeleton samus, etc)

... and these "what?" category hacks are awesome for its  comical approach. I love em.

I like off the wall hacks too, I might start on Captain T-pose, that would be funny.

also made a INCREDIBLY annoying C. Falcon for fun, haven't uploaded it yet though

You know, an idea was crossing  my mind to make a literal Final Destination as Fox the other day...

Get it, fox only, final destination, and no items? I could give him a mustache and a monocle. Just for fun, and I'll post it in FNVB myself.

That would be neat, dunno why nobody thought of it till now, though.

Do you have any grey poupon?

 :>.>:

I don't know why, but I am oddly inspired to do a women clothing vertexes designs for peach, should I over-saturate it also?