Kitty Corp Meow Mix Forums

UPDATED April 18th, 2010!!!

Updates:
-Moveset updated.
-DL link for Demo Video (http://www.mediafire.com/?wgyzgmgzwww) (playable on Wii only... sorry)

DL Links:
FitLink.pac (http://www.mediafire.com/?1meyylnqm04)

FitLinkMotionEtc.pac (http://www.mediafire.com/?4mvy1zlfudr)

Remember, this is only a beta.  I'm not done yet. :)

Tell me what you think.  Give me suggestions.


I thought it was time somebody made a really good version of Link.  For far too long has he been stuck at the bottom of every tier list.  Personally, as a Link fan, it sickens me that nobody has come with a well rounded Link.

Whoever did Zero was the closest, but his kill moves take forever.  The dude can pile on the damage like it was nothing, but in order to KO somebody under 150% you have to charge his Smash attacks fully.

So instead of taking some random character that doesn't belong in Brawl, I've started working on an improved Link.

My plan is to give him faster, flasher, and more acrobatic moves without turning him into an elemental.  I'm also planning to try to improve his overall speed and jumping.  I'm also hoping to give him a better recovery.


MOVESET- Moves not listed are unchanged.

Run speed and jump height has been improved as has the gravity influence.  There is still plenty of tweaking needed.

Dash- Link's Item Dash.  Link does a spinning swing.

Forward A- Link's third Neutral A attack. It's a straight thrust.  My plan is to make this the magic sword move.  The animation totally fits what Link did in the first LoZ.  Still can't figure out how to make a projectile shoot out of him during the move.  I had to slow increase the timer so one couldn't SPAM the [censored] out of the move.

Down A- Link's Down Smash without the charge.  It's also quicker.  I'll probably need to learn how to edit hitboxes so that he can actually damage foes from behind.

Up A- ZSS' Up A. Link does a rotating kicking handstand.  11% Damage

Down Smash- Sheik's down smash.  13% damage uncharged.

Up Smash- Falco's Up smash. Link does a back flip.  14% damage uncharged.

Forward Smash 1- Peach's Tennis Racket swing.  It's a baseball swing.  15% uncharged.
Forward Smash 2- Unchanged from the original Link.  Low horizontal slice. There is a very short delay between Smash 1 and 2.  I'll have to fix that.

Neutral B- Link pulls Bow out quicker allowing for quicker uncharged shooting.  I still want to put elemental properties on the arrows though.  If somebody knows how to do this, please let me know.

Up B Ground- Move is unchanged.  Move has fire element.

Up B Air- Besides the speed of the move and the added fire element, it's unchanged from the original Link.

Up Air- Falco up Air.  Link does a mid-air front flip.

Forward Air- From Snake's Neutral Air.  Link does a number of kicks.

Down Air- Same attack as the original Link, just a bit quicker quicker all around.  You can also interrupt the attack with a jump for another attack midway through the attack.

Neutral Air- This is Link's Up Air Special only speed up with added damage and fire element.   Final hit does 20% damage.  Move does not launch Link upwards, instead Link does the move while dropping.  If Link lands on the ground before the animation is completed, the move stops.  Animation lags behind the collisions a bit but the move still works fine.

Also: Link does a backflip for his hard landing.  I don't think it's faster than the original, it just looks better.




Things I'm hoping to do:


Boomerang- Out of all things I want to get rid of the Gale effect on this.  It's so annoying and it ruins everything Link was meant to be since it pulls enemies closer.

Bomb- I'm not really sure what changes can be made to the bomb, but I would love to allow players to use this as an advanced recovery technic again.  I think the best way would be to make it explode on command by holding the B button, but I'm not sure how that would work.  Another thing I would love to see happen is Link being able to release Bomblings from Twilight Princess.  In TP, Bomblings chased after foes or walked in a straight line.  I could totally see this happening but can also see how this would be very difficult.  Then again, I might not change it at all.

Arrows- The Arrows that Link shoots out in Smash Bros. suck.  It would be mighty fun it they had random effects from The LoZ series:  Ice, Fire, and on really rare occasions: Bomb Arrows.  I went in to Smash Attacks hoping to find a way to give Link's arrows an element flag, but I can't even figure out character collision is.  Update: I did speed up the shooting of it, but I still can't figure out how to add elemental flags to the arrows.

Magic Sword- In the first LoZ game, Link had the ability to "shoot" swords when his health was full.  I'm not really sure how that could possibly work.  Maybe make a projectile look like a sword (common3?) and give it the properties of Samus' Neutral B attack without the charging.  Probably not happening.  Update: I've changed the Forward A to Link's third Neutral A attack which happens to completely mimic the Magic Sword animation from the first LoZ game.  I just need to make it shoot out a projectile and make the projectile look like a glowing sword.

Non-Item Moves:

Overall Speed and Jump Height- I really need to figure this one out.  This whole moveset revolves around Link being faster and more agile.  If I can't figure out his speed then I'm screwed.  Same goes with jumping height.
Update: Speed, Jump Height, and Gravity Influence changed.  There's plenty of tweaking left though.

Right now, I haven't changed Links Down Air since I don't know what to replace it with.  I'm trying to figure out how to get him to recover faster once he makes contact with the ground but I haven't gotten much time to look around since I've only recently started the project.  I also need to figure out how to make specific moves move faster.
Update: Done and done.

Recovery- Links recovery sucks.  Plain and simple.  He can't recover from great depths long distances.  I thought about giving him ZSS' down B to give his Up B more acrobatic flair but it doesn't really help all that much in the recovery department.  Giving him a better recovery without stealing somebody else's move from their PSA is probably going to require making a new animation... or at the very least giving his current one more height.

Link's Spin Attack- I'm sure I can do this one with no problem.  I'm going to remove the charge and increase the damage a bit.  Maybe give it some flair with some fire or something.  I'll probably do this tomorrow.
Update:  Removing the charge animation puts Link in T stance.  I've tried everything I can try in order to remove the charge.  In the end, the charge might be impossible to remove without removing the entire move. :(

If you've got any ideas, or tips, I'd love to hear them.

As of now, my experience with the Smash Attacks program and Brawl Box are quite limited.  I'm figuring out a bunch of stuff, but still have a long ways to go.  All that I can do currently is swap complete moves, change damage, and change the flags.  That's it.  This is probably going to take a while.

Currently, this version of Link is not ready for DL nor do I have a name.  All I've been naming it is Acrobatic Link.  Until I know that I've got an actual original moveset for Link, a DL won't be coming.  I'm a guy who likes his perfection.  Plus... I don't have an account with any file sharing program outside of Photobucket. :D
I'll also clean up this post when I get time.

This is my first attempt at a PSA.  Link is the only character I've tried to change so, yay.  Let the frustration begin.  :af2:

There is a method for making almost any animation match Link's body size. It's just a little tedious. As for the magic sword you can move his ThrowN bone in brawl box to go straight during the attack and attach a sword glow to it.

If it's a simple process then that would be awesome.

But wouldn't one still need to create the item to be shot?  Or have I missed something here.

That's just tedious. I prefer making animations from scratch.


Just move the bone however you want it to move in BrawlBox and  put generate sword glow in the PSA. It'll generate the one Link already has. Attach it the bone you moved.

If it's a simple process then that would be awesome.
[/quote]

Don't you just copy T-stance and then paste it over the 1st frame, and then go back to the 2nd frame and paste it over the first?

Of course, that method may have side effects (like changing the beginning a bit), but it works.

I have a way of fixing it but requires more time.

I'll probably just create new moves when I learn how.  But right now, I'm just going to stick with what I have already.  I've got a lot of work left still that doesn't require changing or created new animations.

Edit: Ok, by shortening the timers, I've effectively quickened some moves and ruined others, lol.  The down Air has got to go, it just doesn't fit in with the other moves and trying to shorten the timers on the move breaks it.

I still can't figure out how to increase Link's run speed and jump height.  Where exactly do I change those?

Would you still be willing to explain how it's done?  I don't think it's covered in the videos and other tutorials.

The tedious method I use or from scratch?

In Attributes.

The one from scratch has a tutorial already.  I would like to try out the tedious method first as I'm only going to change a couple moves right now.

Which Attribute.  I was unable to find a Maximum Run/Dash Velocity.  I did find the number of jumps and I think I've found the "Jump higher" attribute.

Use weegee's method of copying frame zero to frame one. then frame 2 to frame 1 while deleting the old frame 2.

Afterwards a frame between frame 1 and 2
Then add 2 frames to the end of the animation.
Copy frame one to the final frame. There will be a frame to transition between the first and final frame.
Copy the second to last frame to the 1st frame and delete the last 2.

It's a little more work and you still have to deal with fixing bones throughout the animation, but it's a little more fluid this way.

And you have to do that for every frame?  Wow, that does seem like a pain in the ass.  Looks like I'll have to learn how to created new animations.  That's probably going to be a pain too. :-\

Never mind.  I found what I was looking for.  I need to give him a proper speed but he moves faster now which was what I was looking to do.

Creating is harder then fixing the problems with swapping. At least when swapping you may have to move the hip and legs. When creating you have to make the general animation from frame one and then constantly refine it until it looks decent or good.

Creating from scratch is my preference because it's easier and faster for me.

The only thing that turns me off about this is the lack of sword attacks, but I'll be keeping tabs on this anyway. Maybe I'll like it.
Suggestion though, since you want a more acrobatic Link, wouldn't taking some sword moves from Marth work too? Most of the attacks you have now are kicks from ZSS, I dunno if people want Link with mostly ZSS moveset.

The problem is that Marth is right handed.  If Link was right handed too, I wouldn't have a problem at giving him more sword moves.  I am hoping to keep as many sword moves as I can while trying to improve him.   The fact that I have a good number of moves from ZSS was just so I could give him faster moves without trying.  I'll probably keep one or two, but I'll end up replacing the others.  Besides, I only have four.  I'm not giving Link a ZSS moveset... especially since a lot of ZSS' moves suck or don't fit well with Link.

Quite frankly I'm amazed at this thread. I've been trying to do the same basic things with Link myself for the past week or so.

Hence the "Altering up B momentum" and "Different momentum for different circumstances" threads I've posted so far in the PSA help subforum.

Obviously I don't mean to intrude upon your idea, so if you feel I am I'll do what I can to remove this post, but if you're curious as to what I've so far managed to accomplish, this is what I've done:

Editting Link's side smash to be like Toon Link's.
So the first hit just stuns while the second creates knockback) I did this because I thought having two swings wasn't as cool if it was practically impossible to hit a single opponent with only one at a time (since the first one naturally sends them too far away from Link for the second one to connect on a regular basis).

Altering Link's down air attack to make it a spike.
I found it kind of stupid that if Link stabbed down and hit someone in the air, they would go flying upwards. >_>
As it is it make be a bit too powerful (characters with crappy recovery are screwed if hit over a cliff), so I may tweak it a bit.

Changing Link's running speed and jumping height.
Again, this may need to be tweaked quite a bit, he currently runs faster than Toon Link (only a little though) and jumps a bit too high for him to be a balanced character.

Changing Link's Up-B.
I totally agree that Link's recovery as it normally is sucks. A lot. So I gave it a new animation (which I'm very proud of since I made it myself) and increased the upwards momentum of the move. This move is really the purpose of the threads in the help section.
As for what the animation and hitboxes are like, I made it something like Tempest Strike from the Tales Of series, only without the massive horizontal movement (think Kirby's aerial hammer move in Melee, where he spins it hitting all around him, that's what Link does with his sword in the animation I made).
I may have to tweak the hitboxes some more, it used to be that the move could kill most Bosses in one or two times of it being used because he hit almost every frame the sword was in contact with the boss (which wasn't a problem outside of bosses since knockback prevented it from hitting a billion times on anyone). I've tweaked that but it may need some more.
I'd also like to edit the move to allow the player to choose how much horizontal movement is gained via the analogue stick, but I'm still working on it (hence the threads).


That's as far as I've gotten, I'd provide Link's to the edited Link I made, but it's not exactly done so I'm not sure if anyone would want it at this point.
I've gotten somewhat sidetracked by the notion that putting ALTTP's Bombos medallion in the game may be possible (albeit excessively powerful).  :af:
Of course I don't know how to actually put the medallion itself in the game, but I figured Link holding his hand up and fire sweeping the level would suffice. xD


If anyone is curious, these are the Link's to the threads I made. The second of which I still need help with.
Altering up B momentum
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=7005.0 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=7005.0)
Different momentum for different circumstances
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=7059.0 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=7059.0)

Shoot, I haven't even gotten to making new animations and whatnot.  I'm still trying to work with what I have thus far.

First of all, for the Side Smash, I'm actually trying to find two decent animations that would go together since I still want Link's side smash to have a double hit combo but I'm not going for a Larger version of Toon Link.  It is nice to know that someone was willing to go through the time to fix the bones in order to make Toon Link's moves work for Adult Link.

As for the Down Air, for me, it's either find a good replacement or just speed the one I have up.  I have no interest in making the move spike.  His current Neutral Air already kills in one hit if done right (I'll get to that).

I'd like to see what you've done with his Up B recovery attack.  I'm still trying to figure out how to remove his hold for the ground version completely.  As of now, he just goes into the T position while charging, and I don't want charging to be available.

I say keep up the work.  Two is better than one.  In the future we can see if we can maybe merge the two projects into one or just keep it as two projects.

Updates for my version-

Run speed and jump height has been improved as has the gravity influence.  Like Vlad, I still need to tweek so that it's not ridiculous.

Dash- Wolf's Dash.  Needs to be fixed.  Links legs don't follow the flip.  I'll probably change the move to a different one anyways.

Forward A- Link's third Neutral A attack. It's a straight thrust.  My plan is to make this the magic sword move.  The animation totally fits what Link did in the first LoZ.  Still can't figure out how to make a projectile shoot out of him during the move.  I had to slow increase the timer so one couldn't SPAM the [censored] out of the move.  Current Damage- 7

Down A- Link's Down Smash without the charge.  It's also quicker.  Close range damage- 10 total; damage at more of a distance- 14.  I'll probably need to learn how to edit hitboxes so that he can actually damage foes from behind.

Up A- ZSS' Up A. 11% Damage

Down Smash- Sheik's down smash.  13% damage uncharged.

Up Smash- Falco's Up smash. 14% damage uncharged.

Forward Smash 1- Peach's Tennis Racket swing.  15% uncharged.
Forward Smash 2- Unchanged from the original Link.  There is a very short delay between Smash 1 and 2.  I'll have to fix that.

Neutral B- Link shoots his bow quicker.  I still want to put elemental properties on the arrows though.

Up B Ground- Charge goes to T stance.  Still trying to figure that out.  Plan is to remove the charge.  16% Uncharged.  Move has fire element.

Up B Air- Besides the speed of the move and the added fire element, it's unchanged.

Up Air- Falco up Air. 11%

Forward and Back Air- Both ZSS.  I plan to change these as actually connecting with those attacks is difficult.

Down Air- Same attack, just quicker timers all around.  Damage depends.  I'm sure I decrease the damage to adjust for the quicker speed.

Neutral Air- Link's Up Air Special.  Move is a lot quicker now making it easier to hit multiple times.  I have no plan to decrease the damage.  8% for all but last hit.  Last hit gives out 20% and massive knockback.  Easy one hit kill from low damages.  I plan to decrease the knockback a bit so that it's not an early one hit kill.


I'll provide a DL in a day or two in the hopes to get some more input on what I should change.  So far beside the throws that I broke and the Up Special Charge, Link works pretty well and is a lot more fluid now.  I've still a long ways to go though.

Tomorrow, I'll upload a match between me as Link against a level 7 Toon Link.

Note: It's not going to be a video showing off mad skillz.  I screw up numerous times.  It'll be more of a showcase for the moveset.  The ending is pretty epic, though and it also show how overpowered my neutral A is.  Think of the video as a teaser trailer.

Well, if you want the UP B animation I'd have no problem with you using it. The animation file itself is here: http://www.mediafire.com/?ihtmkdiuyka
So you could just replace the UP B animation. You'd have to place the hitboxes yourself though, unless you want the unfinished version I have.

Anyway, as I said I'd have no problem with you using it for your project. I just want to see a well done Link.  ;D

OP updated.

Here's the video as promised. (http://www.mediafire.com/?wgyzgmgzwww)  You'll have to play it on your Wii since I don't have a capture card or video camera.  The video clocks in at between 5-10 minutes.



Edit: The animation looks cool and works perfectly without making any changes to the FitLink.pac.  But it doesn't help in the recovery area though.  I probably won't use the attack.  Thanks though. :)

Oh I forgot to mention that (all I gave you was the animation so that's why), regardless of whether you use the animation or not, using the "0E080400" event in PSA at the beginning of Link's up B move will change the recovery momentum, the first parameter in the "event" edits horizontal velocity and the second edits the vertical velocity.
Setting the second parameter to 1.3 seems to give it decent upwards velocity.

I just thought that may be useful in the future for your project if you didn't already know about it.

Where do I put the event?  At the very top of Main or Other?

Put it in Main.

I feel stupid for not mentioning that, as I had the same problem when someone first gave me that code. xD

Anyway, you can technically put it wherever you want in main, but obviously if you put it after a timer it will wait to change the momentum until after the timer is done.

Well for some reason, it didn't work for me... maybe I didn't put in the right parameters.  Whatever.


I've made some changes to the moves.  I've replaced the BAir attack to the Link's original and the FAir to Snake's NAir.  Both sped up a bit.  Link does a nice back flip when he does a heavy landing.  Not sure if it's any faster but it looks flashy.  I originally had Link do the flip for light landings too but I felt it was overdone.  The charge is now fulli back in Link's NSpecial since I couldn't figure out why Link kept going into the T stance and nobody was willing to help.

I've made the files available via Download.

FitLink.pac (http://www.mediafire.com/?1meyylnqm04)

FitLinkMotionEtc.pac (http://www.mediafire.com/?4mvy1zlfudr)

Tell me what you think.  Give me suggestions.


Edit: If somebody wouldn't mind making a movelist video for other people that would be very helpful as I do not have the materials needed.  I'd ask for pictures but there isn't really anything that a picture would be able to show anyone.