Title: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: TheGentlemanX on April 02, 2015, 08:55:53 PM I know how to do everything, I just don't know how to clone a character that doesn't have a .rel file/Exmodule need help or a link to a tip, guide, or tutorial. Thank you in advance to whomever responds. :angel:
Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: windhunter7 on April 02, 2015, 09:03:19 PM The other characters you may just be able to rename the files of, as some bonesets are interchangeable. For example, I know that Marth and Ike have the same bonesets, so you could just rename one to the other.(e.g. FitMarth00.pcs to FitIke00.pcs) I think, but not am entirely sure, that Mario/Luigi and Ness/Lucas also are interchangeable in the same way. I know that there are other characters that are interchangeable simply by renaming the file, but I don't exactly know which characters.
Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: TheGentlemanX on April 02, 2015, 09:14:18 PM So what you are saying is that I can use Mario Exmodule for luigi's clone or say wolf's exmodule for fox's clone.
Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: Afterthought on April 02, 2015, 09:51:00 PM So what you are saying is that I can use Mario Exmodule for luigi's clone or say wolf's exmodule for fox's clone. Sadly, no. His advice has absolutely nothing to do with your issue. It is not possible to properly clone characters that don't have ExModules. It sucks, but that's just the way it is. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: TheGentlemanX on April 03, 2015, 12:37:14 AM So is there anyway that I can make an exmodule who made the modules anyway
Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: windhunter7 on April 03, 2015, 05:47:23 AM So what you are saying is that I can use Mario Exmodule for luigi's clone or say wolf's exmodule for fox's clone. Exactly. Sadly, no. His advice has absolutely nothing to do with your issue. It is not possible to properly clone characters that don't have ExModules. It sucks, but that's just the way it is. Yes it does; I've ported characters over other characters without rels this way, and it's because the bonesets are the same, so logically, then a clone with the same boneset must also have this ability to switch with other characters in terms of characters with the same bones. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: Afterthought on April 03, 2015, 06:04:50 AM Yes it does; I've ported characters over other characters without rels this way, and it's because the bonesets are the same, so logically, then a clone with the same boneset must also have this ability to switch with other characters in terms of characters with the same bones. I would love to see proof of this, since you seem to know everything. By my understanding, Mario and Luigi don't even have the same properties for some of their moves, and that's more important than their damn bonesets. Fox and Wolf are the same way. That's the reason why modules haven't been done for them so quickly. Cloning characters involves more than their bones, you know. The characters also have different coding and properties. But if I am wrong, by all means, please prove me wrong. So is there anyway that I can make an exmodule who made the modules anyway PhantomWings builds the modules. You can read more about this stuff in the official BrawlEx thread. I suggest not trying with ExModules that don't correspond with the characters themselves but if you want to try it, more power to you. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: windhunter7 on April 03, 2015, 06:18:48 AM While I may not have proof that it will work with BrawlEx, (Because I don't have access to a Wii anyway, and I haven't managed to successfully create any clones whatsoever with the clone engine) I do have proof that even characters with custom PSAs can be ported over other characters with the same bonesets:
Original Ghirahim PSA over Ike: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=203433 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=203433) My Version Over Marth(Because I thought Marth was more like Ghirahim than Ike): http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=206576 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=206576) And "the same properties for their moves" would just mean a PSA, which would just mean you can replace it with a different PSA; that's all that would mean. Mayhaps the reason that the modules "weren't done for them so quickly" is that they don't need to be able to be cloned, because they can just be ported over already-cloned characters with this method... It's not hard to just copy Luigi's animation files(FitLuigi.pac, FitLuigiMotionEtc.pac, etc.) into Mario's cloned folder and just rename the files themselves to FitMario... You can do it with regular characters, and it is basically like porting the actual character over the other, so it will work with BrawlEx, too! P.S. At least give him a chance to try it, since it'll work, before you demand "proof" that it'll work when I've done porting this way before, and it's pure logicallity that means that it will also work with BrawlEx cloned characters. I may not know how to animate(With the exception of animating a single object in Unity), but I know enough about animations to know that the same bonesets just mean that the rig has a different character ported over the bones, and so they are interchangeable. That's why this method works for normal Brawl, and it's why it works for BrawlEx, because they're the same character, just having a different character placed over the bones.(Mario/Luigi placed over a single character rig, etc.) Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: SonicBrawler on April 03, 2015, 06:37:13 AM Yes it does; I've ported characters over other characters without rels this way, and it's because the bonesets are the same, so logically, then a clone with the same boneset must also have this ability to switch with other characters in terms of characters with the same bones. there models are exactly the same. and that doesnt have to do with his question. and the psa is different so it wouldnt work. try answering the actual question next time So is there anyway that I can make an exmodule who made the modules anyway you can. its pretty diffcult though. PhantomWings made the modules. you would have to look at his, see what he did, and try to do similar things to the characters who dont have one such as fox. its doable but chances are you wont be able to. sorry if that sounds rude. wasnt ment to be. only like, 2 people where able to make their own and they are very experienced with rels Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: Afterthought on April 03, 2015, 06:49:59 AM -snip- I look through your posts and notice that you really post nothing to help people. You need to learn what it means to help people, considering all you do is post irrelevant subject matter. If you have no proof of a method, why would you even suggest the method? Where's the logic? OP is not asking to put models over a moveset, he's asking how to make 1:1 clones of a moveset, regardless of the model or boneset. BrawlEx does not work like this whatsoever. Look into something before posting about it, please. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: windhunter7 on April 03, 2015, 07:08:49 AM How can I trust what you say on this, though? I've ported characters in this way, I'm actually making games and have learned a bit about animations, and you don't even show anything in your Vault, which doesn't look good for showing experience. At least with Onii-chan, I almost trust him, as he at least shows experience with imports and animations.(I would have imports and animations, but Brawl animations are a different format than what I'm used to, and I can't import, because I don't have 3DS Max or anything; but I do know how to rig, and I know the principles of animation) He's still incorrect, though, as he even says,"The psa is different, so it wouldn't work" which can't be true, because the whole idea of BrawlEx is to have a unique psa for each slot. I know, because I'm on the Super Smash Blast team. Also, you must not have actually seen my recent posts, or misread them or something, as I am almost never wrong in my advice. In fact, recently, I gave like 3 people advice on how to view textures in another program, which I have done a lot myself.
Also, Onii-chan, did those people ever release those .rels? Because Brawl 4 All has cloned characters other than the ones in the BrawlEx Clone Engine list, and I don't believe anyone on the team whatsoever released any .rels. Also, notice at all how there are NO Jigglypuff clones in the pack? It's because she has a unique set of bones, and can't just be another character renamed. R.O.B. and a few others, however, are cloned in the pack, as they have the same bones as other characters, like for example, R.O.B. was made using Mario's clone. In fact, I remember someone who works on those BrawlEx packs on the actual .rel porting and stuff that R.O.B. can be cloned using Mario's files. For one who does animations, I should think that you should know about animations, but apparently not if you don't know about switching characters in that method.(Also, characters like Luigi may actually have to have their visibility bones changed or something, because I know Luigi has his own bone for just his nose, which nobody else has, not even Mario, so I don't think that Mario and Luigi are interchangeable unless Luigi's re-rigged.) Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: Afterthought on April 03, 2015, 07:29:29 AM -snip- I'm starting to see why you have such a bad rep. You're pretty dense. I don't need experience to know how to read, to see what is and is not possible. The fact that you suggested a method you didn't even try yourself, and then the fact that you asked if you can trust me, when I wasn't the one that made the suggestion, speaks volumes about how hardheaded you really are. I'm not going to pursue this but my inbox is open if you really want to discuss this. This isn't a discussion thread. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: windhunter7 on April 03, 2015, 07:33:57 AM Maybe I am dense; but it doesn't change that what I said will most likely work, and you have no proof otherwise. For proof that it works, why not just ask TheGentlemanX if he got it to work after he tries it?
Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: Afterthought on April 03, 2015, 07:43:41 AM Maybe I am dense; but it doesn't change that what I said will most likely work, and you have no proof otherwise. For proof that it works, why not just ask TheGentlemanX if he got it to work after he tries it? Why don't YOU try it? YOU SUGGESTED IT. YOU SHOULD KNOW, BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE PROOF. THAT'S THE POINT. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: windhunter7 on April 03, 2015, 07:50:53 AM Quote (Because I don't have access to a Wii anyway, and I haven't managed to successfully create any clones whatsoever with the clone engine) I would try it if I had these things as options, but I don't even have access to a Wii right now, so I can't. And I can bet that TheGentlemanX will be able to do this before I do, since I won't be able to until probably Tuesday. So, if he doesn't post that he did it and/or will do it before then, then I will do it and show you! Since you won't listen to me. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: SonicBrawler on April 03, 2015, 08:17:31 AM i have no clue what you are talkign about as much of your sentenses dont makes sense. also i noticed you put a lot of excuses for things. i too am an animator and game designer. that has nothing to do with this. also what overdrive said. if you dont have proof and dont knwo what you are talking about, dont say it
Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: Leon Exodio on April 03, 2015, 10:36:42 AM you may be able to use wolfs rel for fox because they do have similar articals but its not 100% sure it will work but you may have to port the psa to another character that can be brawlex
Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: TheGentlemanX on April 03, 2015, 01:39:14 PM Alright, I will try these porting methods and try to use wolf .rel. I am not a Wii user either. I use Dolphin to be specific about what im using and I use Gecko OS. If anybody got any porting tutorial links or explanations I would gladly appreciate it. Thank you all for attempting to help me.
Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: Nao-chan on April 03, 2015, 09:51:52 PM How can I trust what you say on this, though? -snip- This whole post reeks of hypocrisy. You ask for his experience... but have absolutely none of your own to show on your vault, aside from "your word" which barely anyone here actually takes legitimately. Please stop spreading misinformation on things you have no proof of. If you want to help. Point him in the direction of the help threads that actually hold answers for his queries. Also... it's not just the characters bones that matter when making a clone. All of the character files play a roll in it. So stop saying confusing things. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: KingJigglypuff on April 04, 2015, 10:31:28 AM Windhunter. As a user with a little over 4 years of Brawl modding experience, I can confirm that you have no idea on what you're talking about.
Stop making yourself out to be the victim when you're called out on your misinformation. You have done the same exact thing on every thread in which people have called you out on your misinformation. It's getting extensively annoying. The user asked if one can make a BrawlEx clone of a character without a BrawlEx module. The obvious answer is no, not without extensive editing (more so than the average BrawlEx clone). But yet you spread all this blatant misinformation. Replies to snips in the spoiler. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: windhunter7 on April 04, 2015, 11:05:05 AM Quote Copping out, I see? There's two other options you can do if you don't have a Wii to use. 1.) If your computer is powerful enough, get Dolphin Emulator and a Brawl ISO. 2.) Have someone test it for you. Except that I couldn't manage to successfully get the Gecko Channel installed on my Dolphin, nor the Wii System Menu, even though I attempted to follow like 3 tutorials on it, and I did say that I'll test it as soon as I can. As to ALL of you guys who doubt that my method will work, at least let me try it before you bash it! As for this quote of yours: Quote Stop making yourself out to be the victim when you're called out on your misinformation. You have done the same exact thing on every thread in which people have called you out on your misinformation. It's getting extensively annoying. 1) I'm not playing the victim; I simply said that I'll prove it; learn the difference 2) It's not misinformation, which I'll show whence I prove it, and yet you state misinformation as "fact" 3) You OBVIOUSLY have NEVER EVER read my threads and/or posts, then, since there has been all of ONE other thread where I was "called out on misinformation", and you never let me prove that I was correct!(I don't even remember which thread it was, and no, I'm not thinking of the critiquing one; that one was just meanness, not how to help someone) Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: Afterthought on April 04, 2015, 11:12:58 AM As to ALL of you guys who doubt that my method will work, at least let me try it before you bash it! You should have been tried it, that's the point. That's like saying, "Oh, let me teach someone else how to play a video game before I actually play it myself." There's zero logic in that. You might not always play the victim (not exactly sure on that) but you DO post junk just to post it. And I'm NEWER than you. And even I know that. This isn't our first dance, remember that. I called you out once before for doing this same exact thing. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: windhunter7 on April 04, 2015, 11:31:54 AM I do have experience with porting characters, though. It's just that I've never tried it with BrawlEx, but logically, it will most likely work exactly the same way. It's more like saying,"Let me show you how to play this game, so that you can beat it, even though I never tried beating it [yet]."
As for posting "Junk", I really don't; I even got at least 3 people to thank me for helping them with the common5.pac or 3d model viewing or other stuff like that in the past two days! And WOW, that WHOLE 1 and 1/2 months newer! You're so much of a noob on this forum compared to me!!! No. You're about the same as me, as I started modding not too long before I joined the forum, and I didn't start making my own mods until quite a while after I joined.(And they weren't good when I started, either, which is why I never uploaded them) And do reference this "calling out" where I misinformed. Also, even though we never met when we both were noobs, and you probably don't look at every single available section of the forum, it wasn't until recently that we clashed, and I don't want to clash with you; I want you to just let me at least try something that's based on logicality and experience. All I'm asking is for all of you guys to just wait a few days(At most) until I test it, and if successful, I'll upload me doing it onto YouTube, along with the SD Card layout(In case you don't believe the video), and then the person who made this thread can see whether or not he can do something that simple to make clones without .rels. P.S. My first post ever on this forum was asking how to import a model from Blender that I already rigged.( forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=65479 ) So don't say that I never looked up how to model or rig or animate or anything; as for proof that I'm working on games, I made a script below.(Quoted from another one of my posts, when I gave it as a source code to someone else making a game) Post Merge: April 04, 2015, 11:39:15 AM Including the animations "WeaponIdle1" and "WeaponRunning1"; so don't say that I don't know the slightest bit about animations, either! Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: Large Leader on April 04, 2015, 11:52:54 AM I do have experience with porting characters, though. It's just that I've never tried it with BrawlEx, but logically, it will most likely work exactly the same way. It's more like saying,"Let me show you how to play this game, so that you can beat it, even though I never tried beating it [yet]." You obviously don't if all you do is rename files. Porting characters is much more complicated than you think. Quote As for posting "Junk", I really don't; I even got at least 3 people to thank me for helping them with the common5.pac or 3d model viewing or other stuff like that in the past two days! So we're just ignoring all your posts in the A/A thread? Alright, fine with me. Quote I want you to just let me at least try something that's based on logicality and experience. It's not logical. Trust me, it isn't. I tried doing what you did way back, and it failed terribly. Quote and then the person who made this thread can see whether or not he can do something that simple to make clones without .rels. Yeah. That requires extensive PSA editing. Which you obviously haven't done. Quote P.S. My first post ever on this forum was asking how to import a model from Blender that I already rigged.( forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=65479 ) So don't say that I never looked up how to model or rig or animate or anything; as for proof that I'm working on games, I made a script below.(Quoted from another one of my posts, when I gave it as a source code to someone else making a game) Post Merge: April 04, 2015, 11:39:15 AM Including the animations "WeaponIdle1" and "WeaponRunning1"; so don't say that I don't know the slightest bit about animations, either! Nobody cares about what you did for that. That has no relevance here. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: windhunter7 on April 06, 2015, 10:23:20 AM *Edit: Links removed, since it's been at least a week*
So I tried it, and these were the results, in this video: *Deleted (Sd card setup downloadable here: *Deleted ) Dr. Mario is a Mario clone, and you'll notice that Luigi and Mario both work over him, though Luigi has some graphical glitches. With Luigi's PSA, however, those graphical glitches on Luigi will go away. Wolverine is a Wolf clone, and you'll notice that Wolf and Fox both work over him, and neither of them have graphical glitches.(At least not that I noticed) As you'll also notice, Marissa is a clone of Lucas, but only Ness will work over her and not Lucas, and with Cloud, both Ike and Marth work over him, though Marth's B causes a freeze. Post Merge: April 06, 2015, 10:24:13 AM P.S. Lemme know when you have finished downloading/watching the video, so I can delete it and the .zip from MediaFire to make room for my actual mods. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: Afterthought on April 06, 2015, 10:33:30 AM -snip OP is asking how to use all-new PSAs in BrawlEx without certain modules. Not how to use models over PSAs. Please learn how to read these things. Your video is showing how to use models over existing PSAs, not how to clone PSAs already in the game for use. Like, come on now. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: HaloFanODST on April 06, 2015, 05:08:36 PM The only way to clone characters with no ExModule is by porting the PSA to another character, which is mostly hard if you don't have the experience.
Some characters can be automatically ported (yet with work done by you) over others. Fox and Wolf have similar articles, but the boneset (I believe) is different. Other characters can be cloned by modifying just the coding, as far as I know, to match the module files. <--------- This might not be true. Example: Spiderman couldn't be cloned when BrawlEx came out (he is a Sheik based character), so he was ported over Marth to be cloned. The one who ported him over Marth said once that it was easy due to Spiderman not using any of Sheik's specials, but I'm not sure if this is the reason. In short: You need to port the PSA over a character with ExModule to make it clonable. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: catscatscats99 on April 07, 2015, 05:17:32 PM If you want to port a character the fastest way possible:
Start by just putting your new character over who you want to port him to. Like even the PSA and FitMotion. Rename the files of course...and then play the character. If you didn't get a freeze, then yay. Scout for glitches, and then use PSA and either cover them up or actually fix them. Good coding skills are pretty much mandatory for this. For example, I ported the Silver PSA (the one over Falco) over Marth awhile ago. A glitch I had was the up B and side B had no momentum when they should. I fixed that by changing the momentum codes. There were a few other things, but they were all little like that. However, putting TRex over Marth, works 100% (as far as I could tell) except he can't do air moves. I tried everything to fix it, but the game simply will not go to another action when A is pressed in the air. It does this for all Yoshi PSAs from what I could tell. So that's a quick method...moves involving articles will virtually never work, which is why I used Marth for everything, since he won't freeze when an article is attempted to be summoned since he has no articles himself. For the slow but always effective method, you can actually remake the entire PSA into a new PSA of the character you want, like I did for Petey Piranha in Brawl4All. It took some work, but he is now cloneable as Marth. I recommend this way since there might be glitches you don't catch -- in Brawl4All, Axl is ported using the first method over Marth, which has now caused us to realize a glitch that we can't fix so many months later, so he will now be fully remade on to a different PSA when the next update comes out. Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: TheGentlemanX on April 08, 2015, 09:01:25 AM k thanks very much mate
Title: Re: How to Clone Characters with no .rel file(Exmodule) like Fox on Brawlex Post by: Ricky (Br3) on April 08, 2015, 11:12:00 AM Alejandro MiddleCorn's and itman's posts just above are pretty much all you need to know. Some PSAs can be used over another already cloned character if some modifications are made (for example, the Megaman PSA for Ness can be used over a cloned Lucas slot). But still, you'll always need to go for a character who already has a cloned module, as making a new BrawlEx module takes quite some work.
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