Kitty Corp Meow Mix Forums

Hello KCMM. This is Black Boo, or "The guy that does all the Zelda hacks." This topic is a bit of a public service announcement to the hackers here.

What I want to talk about is hacks and their...creativity. Yes, their creativity. I'm noticing that the creativity in BrawlVault is reaching a frightening low. Why you say? Well, isn't the fact that just the other day, there were three Shadow hacks on the top downloads per day list proof enough?

Another thing, besides the multiples of hacks out there that's diminishing the creativity here is simple recolors. Now I realize that for some members, vertex editing is difficult. But really, if you're going to do a recolor, don't do something that's been done already, and if it hasn't been done, make it original. I'd hate to point out a specific hack, but the Black and Gold ones come to mind. The BnG Peach was good, but the BnG Zelda...not so much.

besides, that's what the vertex request forums are for. If you want to make a hack and be able to publish it, ask around the forum for an edited model, but not an edited texture, and say that you're going to release it yourself, but don't forget to give credit.

Although I suppose that really doesn't matter since a lot of people constantly ignore request threads. True I can understand that a lot of them are rather far fetched, but if you're out of ideas and in a slump, give them a look, and see if you can't find something manageable. Lend a hand, make a fellow hacker's dream come true.

Lastly, in the creativity department, is ORIGINAL IDEAS. We already have at least twenty or thirty Shadow hacks floating about, same with Mewtwos and Roys. True, you might have an original idea, but you don't have the thought process to pull it off. If you do, and is often times my case, sit back, relax, and think. Just think on how you can create the hack that you desire. It took me about a week of planning for Queen Ambi.

The real key to this is inginuity. You need to look at what you have to work with, and then say "Okay, how are we going to make this work? This was the case for my (still work in progress) Midna, though I'm still having patching issues with her. Since she's not released, she'll be the perfect example. Just...don't steal my ideas and not give me credit, alright?

(http://content.screencast.com/users/BlackBoo/folders/Jing/media/3f38dd77-f857-4b80-8242-5dcb0e4b9a73/2010-12-25_2253.png)

Look here. The often neglected bow on the back of her head. I made it ouf ot her earrings.

(http://content.screencast.com/users/BlackBoo/folders/Jing/media/4709ab19-4de6-4724-bd68-f080a67aa8f1/2010-12-25_2256.png)

Her cloak sleeves, made from the verts just above the elbow.

(http://content.screencast.com/users/BlackBoo/folders/Jing/media/e13d41cc-f22f-4094-815b-b86b6c172a0c/2010-12-25_2258.png)

This is a key tip. Go the extra mile! If it's for the sake of making a character actually look like themselves, about an extra hour of work is worth it, don't you think?

But what if you were working on a hack, and someone else has already finished it? Didn't I say earlier that you should be original? Yes, I did. But if your hack was in production, and you believe that you can make the hack, dare I say it and offend someone, better than the other one that's up right now, then, by Jove, do it! That's what I did with Toon Zelda.

A last minor point I'm going to address is anime based hacks. They're out there folks. And quite frankly, some of them are repulsive. Trust me, I've spent days at a time just perusing BrawlVault, and I have come across some not so pretty sights. Do we all remember that Nami that looked like Weegee? Yeah, that'a a prime example. So all in all, cut back on the anime. Some people might know who the character is, most of us don't.

I thak you for the time that you've taken to read this post, and have a happy remainder of your holiday season.

2 Color packs out for one character is really LOL

I agree with you for the most part but I think with most hackers when it comes to making hacks, do you make what you think the people would want or do you make something creative. I think with creative hacks, unless it's extremely well done they can be far too obscure for anyone to even give a chance.

Why make Sonic into the RoadRunner from looney tunes when you can make another Shadow. Make Shadow because it's a sure fire to get downloads and people think it's what the community wants, another "Perfect" Shadow. :srs:


But i'll have to disagree with you about the Anime hacks even though I'm not much of an anime fan. Yes, there are many out there that are repulsive, but in my opinion there are just as many if not more non-anime based hacks that are just as repulsive. If a person is fan enough of the character I think they should go for it, doesn't matter if no one else has heard of it if they like it. I think the thing is, a lot of skilled hackers aren't the ones making those hacks and the  few that are neglect one important aspect of these hacks; The Eyes.

I think creativity in terms of modeling like you using her earrings to make her bow also comes down with experience with making hacks for that character. Someone vertexing Zelda for the first time wouldn't think that but as they get more accustomed to the character they realize "I can use this for this" and "that for that." That's why i'm constantly revamping my stuff, i feel I can always make them better and I'm finidng out new ways to go about things.

Nice Midna btw. Damn, I rambled on. Who the f*ck is gonna read all this? :srs:

^I read it all. :af: I agree with you 100%!

Didn't Calamitas make a True Form Minda?

I just wish I could vertex, there's a lot of ideas I could make using the vertexting programs, but alas I heard it isn't free to get it (or is that just me?)

 I have to agree with Beyond on this one (yes I did read it all)

Most people only redo the Shadows, the Roys, the Mewtwos etc. because they want a bunch of downloads.
And if it's not a rip-off remake, then its gonna be a re-colour pack, or a crappy 'nude' version
Regarding anime hacks... Well, most of them do suck (I have made anime hacks myself and I still think they suck), However, the only reason why most of them suck is because they are so half-assed. If someone did go that little bit furthur to line the textures up correctly, or add more detail to them, they might actually be good... I'm not saying that all the anime hacks are crap, there are some gooduns but only because they actually have effort put into them.
Errr... The eyes though... I personally think the eyes should be left as-is.
I think this because majority of the people who edit the eyes make a real mess out of it... Bigger eyes does not = perfect Anime appearance!
If you are gonna try for anime hacks, atleast get some lessons in how animanga anatomy works first or just leave the eyes alone.
Besides, people seem to forget that 99% of all Brawl characters are already made in a comic art style :P

I don't think I can say much more... You and Beyond have pretty much summed everything up I have wanted to say for a while now, so Thank you for letting me vent some of the ridiculous annoyances I have against recurring or just down right unoriginal hacks ;D

I myself have nothing against originality, even if it gives you little to no downloads. Sometimes the least obscure characters aren't always the best choices.

...unless that originality takes you to the kajillions of "original" Sonic characters roaming about, in which case I'd probably stomach another Shadow that has 50% more furry eyebrows than the last.

The BrawlVault should be there to hold hacks that have quality and value, not to hold tons and tons of 'original' Sonic, tons and tons of Shadow revamps, anime hacks which are repulsive (if your going to do one, do them right) and hacks which clearly don't even work properly (some people post for example a model port like Ganondorf over C. Falcon and say that most of the [censored]e doesn't work and crash your game, but still is fine to use -_-).

I fully approve what you said BlackBoo and ds22
Sadly, I don't think we can change that :/

Sonic hacks were fun. Allright a Shadow! Allright a SHadow Vertex! Allright a Metal Sonic! Allright a.. Metal Shadow? Allright a.. Silver the hedgehog! Allright a.. Who's this again?
Sooo many different hedgehogs. I'll just keep it to Sonic, Knuckles and Shadow if you don't mind >.>

This thread has thoroughly explained what's been on my mind ever since there have been hacks for brawl. Personally, all of the redone characters, recolors, and obscure anime textures start to pile up, and original ideas become rare.
For me, the best part of original ideas is how everyone can use them. An anime character that 10% of the community recognizes might be well done, but not everyone can appreciate it. A well planned, original, and aesthetically pleasing hack goes a lot further and is generally more fun.

I think it's kind of funny that, while everyone is discussing this, two more Shadow textures showed up in the Vault. :laugh:

Yeah I'm getting really tired of these Sonic fan characters and how people keep spamming Shadows on the vault for downloads... :srs:
My hacks are original. No one has ever made an effing Triple Rainbow stage before.
No one would have thought of Chinese Ness... :srs:

OMG another Shadow. Seriously, it is becoming even more annoying :srs:

The thing is, the popular stuff always sells out the most, even if they're just slightly different versions, leaving little room for the more original things -- sadly, the case also applies out in the real world.

Wow. Got some good feeback here.

Yeah, I'm notiing that. It really ticks me off. People will gladly just half ass a shadow for a quick 500 downloads, just to make themselves look good.

I really just hack for fun, as should most people. I find it to be an entertaining hobby, like drawing. Except, it's more time consuming, it's in 3D, and you can watch your drawings fight.

Either way, I suppose it really boils down to the desire for downloads. People haven't thought of the triple rainbow stage or chineese ness because they're more concerned with thinking "Okay, how can I make the last shadow this much better?

Also, Sonic fan characters? Please, keep them to yourselves. You don't know how many hacks I have on my computer and Wii that I haven't released.

I approve to this blackboo

1 to many shadows on the vault  -_-

2 sonic fan characters most die in a pit of fire!

3 no one is thinking out side the box anymore

4 makeing hack is fun

You make a very good point black boo.. But I guess creativity is hard to come by now a days.. People just need to be more original and try new things.. There's a handful of characters that havnt been touched and others that really could use a revamp of some sort.. Well that's my opinion..

To tell you the truth, i made many Shadow hacks, not for downloads, but for the pride of saying "Hey, I can beat that." I know its pretty much based on envy, but you do the thing you do to be the best out of all the Shadow personas.

Like the first line in the Pokemon theme song.

You know, for being perfectly honest, I don't really like to see somebody else work on a better version of what I myself consider my greatest work (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=11079). :notimp:

And aside from that I can agree with most of your points... except for the anime hacks. They're about as "repulsive" as most other game character, recolors, or other kinds of characters.
Take my most recent hack for example, Yami Marik Melvin. He is mainly a major villain from Yu-Gi-Oh!, but I didn't make him because of that. No, I made him because of his incarnation from Yu-Gi-Oh! The Abridged Cancelled series, which is by far the best internet parody of anything.

Anyway. I just counted all the Shadow hacks on BV, not counting half-assed ports. In total we got 62. And most of them are nothing but half-assed edits of previous version which all got a ridicilous amount of downloads.
Some time ago, I also counted the Sonic fan characters, but I already forgot the number. But I do remember that it was depressingly high.

I just find it funny that a Shadow recolor pack got released last night, and another one today.

Oh the f*cking irony.

I think it's just because Wave released it twice, since he had two versions.

Shadow eh....

*whistles and walks away*

.....What?

I LOL'd XD.... Your an exception bro :P..

1. Yes. We should delete the textures that were around when vertex hacks weren't possible.
2. Agree.
3. Yes, ideas are running low.

1. Do be aware that there are textures that are original that were made when vertexes weren't possible(I.E. Jock Kong/MGS3 Sneaking Suit Snake) and that there are textures that are good that Don't have modded vertexes like MetaVader, MGS4 Snake, and Agent Kong.

2..............

3.They will continue to run low until we learn more about certain things, such as how stage hazards and such are coded.

There is only one thing I can say.

It's easier to do something that has been done before than something that hasn't. Cause it's easier to get and make the materials for them. That's why there is a lack of originality.

It is also because almost every damn thing you can thing isn't always possible with hacking vertices and stuff. Like with my idea to make Sveta from Golden Sun Dark Dawn on Zelda, I wanted to use the two braids on the front of her head and move them to the back in place of Zelda's hair, then I came up with a way to  make the two braids separate by using Zelda's long mane of hair and one braid...-but found it would have the same problem as the first method.

Not only that, I would have to make it one-slot, which would take a very long time unless I worked for days on end without rest.

That, and not everyone has the time or patience to learn how to do the various methods of hacking that are available. It may be lazy, but that's the currently reality, no?

As for Fan Characters...

My character Velen is basically Shadow's body with two pygmy spines (I.E Really short, curved spines), two large, stark-straight spines, and two smaller, axillary spines between the first central spine, and both of the two large ones on the side of the head mentioned before, and three spines going down the center instead of two. he has only one, jagged, golden yellow stripe down the first central spine with three locks of hair on the front of his head that are the same color. His main body color is turquoise and his eyes are Cerulean Blue.

He wears purple boots with notched buckling devices like you see on some brands of rollerblades, and wears blue, fingerless gloves with padded, metal knuckles similar to brass knuckles, with a gunmetal grey strip of cloth on the back of both hands, the one on his left hand baring his family's crest. He wears two blue rings on reach wrist (which are similar to Shadow's on his gloves, it's a tribal thing.) and one around his ankles on his boots.

Nothin personal about the first point, mate. I've actually had that hack in the works since that new vertexing method came out.

And again, I'm not saying all anime hacks are bad, I'm just saying that many of them are poorly executed.

62? Really? ...[censored], I was way under in my estimation. That's depressing.



To be quite honest, that's why I continued my Toon Zelda, Nayru, and Din hacks. Because I thought "Y'know, there's a chance that I can do better, and improve upon it." That's the exact and precise reason why I finished my Metal Sonic.

Kind of ironic that I'm replying that to YOUR quote.

Oh yeah, something I forgot to mention in my last post... this entire stupidity with multiple versions of one and the same character has, as you might remember, already caused me to do make parody (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=14096) hacks (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=14094)... I should really continue with these.



Hm. Well, even so, I kinda doubt that you can really improve that much over mine. I mean, I did use the actual TP model as reference and all...



What, you mean this?

"I wish to become the unquestionable champion
Unlike any gentlemen who ever had the pleasure to exist.
To encapsulate thine is my true task,
To discipline thine is my enterprise."

That was pointless...

If I recall, you only edited the hair. Black Boo is vertexing Zelda's whole model-- I'd say that's a good enough improvement to an already epic hack.

Especially the face, it needed some vertexing.

No, I did edit the entire model. >_>

Well, if i had liked a unpopular character, say Jet the Hawk (He's the only one who comes to my mind) and i make multiple hacks of him, people won't be eating alive like when i was liking and making multiple hacks of Shadow, which currently is my state. Hackers have the right to make and upload, but the downloaders have a right to critize with reason. I downloaded, and tried the newest Shadows, and i just don't like the look of them. I don't really hate them because there are too many, but my opinion is that they're pretty poorly made.

And Cal, that was exactly what i meant.

All the Shadow hacks are the same... Putting 4 of them in a match, you'll see no diference at all.

It's just pretty damn pointless, I'm a huge fan of Sonic/Knuckles/Shadow, but seriously, I don't even know which Shadow I have on FitSonic01.pac, I just know I put it about 6 months ago and haven't changed it since then, and he looks exactly like Shadow... The same with the other 68 Shadows. So yeah, pretty much pointless.

Right this moment there are 4 Shadow hacks in the top 10 of the most popular hacks *facepalm*

Wow that's really pathetic, it really is.

One thing is having a PSA animation, but the "perfect" Shadow "brawl" Shadow "Hyper Ultra Super Duper" Shadow are f*cking pathetic.

Yeah alot people keep on doing Shadow, lets hope there isn't another one.

The thing is, i don't really play like normal people do.

I love to take pictures. and the quality has to be perfect.
I mean, would you just download a solid, cel-shaded Shadow or a actual detailed one that took time and precision?

Me too, i like taking pictures of Hacks even good ones.

You and the rest are just trying to make Shadow better than his creators have, like, come on! Shadow changes in every game he's shown, and he's not THAT detailed in his games as to deserve this many "Perfect" Shadows revamps.

Out of the 68 Shadows there, the diferences are:

1>Diferent colours on unnoticable parts.
2>Move his spikes a little bit higher
3>Move one of his spikes a little bit down

4>Calling it "Perfect" Shadow and giving credit to the one that made the original one (The one you take to do 1, 2 or 3)

Don't take it personal, I'm not directing this entirely towards you, I'm not sure how you made your Shadow much diferent and Perfected than the rest, nor do I care, really., since the Shadow I have on my SD is pretty good made, another "Perfect" Shadow of the Vault's 68's Perfect Shadows.

Im not gonna lie here, i never called my Shadow perfect.
All my Shadow hacks are unaccurate custom hacks that i find likeable.

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=15272

Heheh.

I don't know if Gamma was linking to the report that was on that Shadow hack earlier but I took a screenshot because I knew that it wasn't going to stay forever and it was to funny, but here it is.

(http://i55.tinypic.com/2i8fwxu.png)

Actually, that report came after I posted it. I just thought it was funny that there was another Shadow on the Vault.

Also, if you look at his/her other hacks, you'll notice something peculiar about them....

Oh, and yay for abusing the reporting system. :P

Know what's ironic? there are also quite a few Midna hacks out there.

but I completely agree with the lack of creativity. 300 f*cking shdows is too much.

it's diferent, most of them are textures from before vertexing was possible, and the ones of these times are about 3, none of which are just textures over a vertex, rather, 3 diferent vertexes (Including this), which is not the ase with Shadow, where everyone uses the same base Vertex and move a bit the spikes/use a diferent color palette etc. <_<

People are writing article-sized posts, an yet nobody bothered quoting me...Huh.

My last post pretty much states my opinion on the issue.

Actually, heres another thing.
Shadow is just as popular as Sonic.
I know for a fact that Shadow has almost as much Fanboys as Sonic.
When Mastaklo released Shadow, do you think they'd all be just dumb enoungh to not do anything?
Really guys.
If you guys hate Shadow hacks so much, then just freaking stop them from releasing them.
Just complaining about how you guys hate Shadow and there's so many of them isn't going to do any good.
What, do you think the "Shadow makers" will read this and stop?
They won't, at all.

End of Shadow Topic, moving on please.

No one hates Shadow, just Shadow spammerz~

EDIT:

(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i6/X-Cloud/DA.jpg)

People, stop reporting them for silly reasons, it's also not against the rules to spam Shadows. <_<

Anybody else notice the new brawlvault logo? XD
Looks like we got our wish

(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae250/SRVAsays/noshadow.png)

Yes!

I wanted to post this Gamma Ridley xD
I was lmao when I saw this !

Who put it ?

I'm guessing picano, he is the Brawl Vault graphics dude.

Well shadow not the only one in the vault that people post alot, there is Midna and Mewtwo.

Yes, but you'll have to admit that the Midna hacks pretty much stopped appearing after I released my true form Midna, and Black Boo released his Imp Midna.
The same could almost be said about Mewtwo after mariokart64n's, if it wasn't for all these "Melee packs".

I agree with you on the topic of Midna: before there were only textures of her, and while there were a lot of Midnas, it doesn't even compare to the number of Shadows.

The thing about Mewtwo, however, is that a good majority of them were different. I've seen some prety unique textures of Mewtwo, such as a Groudon textured one or a Rayquaza one. Their changes weren't really as subtlee and negligible as the changes to the Shadow hacks.

I <3 the new icon.

LMAO XD I wasn't expecting that! (I don't like it, though..)



It's diferent, most of them are textures from before vertexing was possible, and the ones of these times are about 3, none of which are just textures over a vertex, rather, 3 diferent vertexes (Including this), which is not the case with Shadow, where everyone uses the same base Vertex and move a bit the spikes/use a diferent color palette etc. <_< (Plus, no one felt the Midna numbers 'til speaking about this hadow madness.)

Wow, glad I found this topic, because I agree with pretty much everything that's been said here.  There are too many repeat hacks on the vault.  Shadow is the chief perpetrator, but hacks like Cloud, Sephiroth, Mewtwo and Roy are also to blame.

Honestly, I'm just mad the people refuse to make hacks for things that haven't been hacked before.  There are hundreds of comics/games/cartoons/etc that haven't been represented in Brawl.  But, people still keep on churning out hacks of characters that have already been done tens of times before.

It's sad, really :'(

It's diferent for Sephiroth and Roy, since they're or were still looking for a REAL representation (Vertex), Sephiroth may have gotten it with Aafyre's, and after his, I've not seen another Sephiroth be made other than his recolors. Roy? He haven't gotten his representation perfectly made.

After Akari's and BY's Cloud's vertexes, and a KH one, I haven't seen another one made (another submission of Cloud), since those 3 are technically perfectly made.

^ These are not the same cases of Shadow, who got his perfectly made Vertex near the beginning, and after that, another 60 submissions of him came.

I suppose that you're right about those three.  My bad.  I guess that I was over-exaggerating because I'm tiered of seeing hacks for characters that have already been made, which include Cloud, Sephy and Roy.

It's not like people aren't asking for new characters, either.  If you go to the request boards, you'll find plenty of requests for new characters.  It's just that people aren't listening to these requests, and unfortunately, there isn't a solution to this problem.

There are pretty nice suggestions there, but the creators need to like them to make them, if not, they'd never show any interest. D:

Take Sol Badguy for example, he'd be a great character to make, and a great representation of Guilty Gear, but, none of the Vertexers think that way, I suppose. =/

Complete agreeal with OP.
But even if something is easy, that does not by any means mean people should do it.

And apologies for bluntness, but nobody wants to know about your fancharacter. It's a fancharacter; not a real character. People honestly don't want to play as your imaginary dude you came up with for your fanfictions or whatever, so I mean if you wanna make it, that's cool, but just keep it to yourself. This was not directed toward only you, but pretty much everybody.

If it looks good, I'd play as him, and so would you.

I wouldn't.  I don't care how good they look or how cool their story is, a fancharacter is a fancharacter, and I will never, ever, add fancharacters to my Brawl.

Words that would have been taken directly from the mouth of myself.

Yes. We all laughed at the new BrawlVault icon, including myself.

I do agree, that the Shadow The Hedgehog population has been vary high and i did find the new icon funny because everyone makes him, but people are still making PSA's for Shadow and in the future there might be another problem with another hack that everyone will do and submit into the vault, because most people are not happy with one perfect hack they make lots of them differant versions of the same hack mostly.

Yes, while the BV icon is funny, it still represents a very real problem.  The majority of hackers are only making hacks that are repeats of previous hacks, usually with little or no differences between the two.

Now, is there any way that we can fix this problem and encourage creativity among hackers?

For right now i think we should just think before we submit into the vault.

Ban Sonic the Hedgehog from the Brawl Vault forever. As much as I would hate it, I think there should be some kind of approval system when someone goes to submit.

The mods wouldn't need to be too scrupulous, but maybe they could just keep an eye out to limit the amount of crap that gets submitted?

Isn't it kinda strange that Shadow has  MANY PSAs but Sephiroth has none finished or up to the level of completion Cloud's PSA???

Anyway, we should look @ the 1 player files more.
When we figure them out, we should see people making SSE levels eventually.
I cannot find Multi-Man-Brawl.

THAT would be pretty cool.

Plus, by then we'd have razanak's Boss Pack to spice things up a bit too. ^^

And maybe Marx will be finished up soon....

Yes, most hacks are that of Shadow, of course and nobody mostly creates anything else or Finish their work of another hack, and somewhere on the line i think people that are doing Melee hacks are gonna start fighting, well their has been some fights but they have been taken care of, but what am talking about is doing the same hack is gonna cause some fights.

It's not that I hate Shadow, but there are SO MANY FREAKIN' SHADOW HACKS! Every one claims to be "perfect."

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=14242 ?

For your information, I haven't made a single fan-fiction of my character.

By the way, your sweeping generalization is wrong. Sure it may be a minority, but there are people who would play as a fan character, especially if they look good.


@Victory: If you made up a character, and made a texture or vertex of him, would you play as him? If so, you'd have a fan-character in your Brawl.

The only difference between fan-characters is who made them, what they look like, and how they are portrayed, in the end, they are all the same thing, fan-characters.

I think you interpreted it incorrectly. What they're saying is that nobody wants to use other peoples' fan characters.

Making a fan character is perfectly fine, but it's yours and yours alone, so most likely nobody else will share their interest in it with you.

-and what I am saying is that sweeping generalization is literally wrong. That's just the majority of people. Wolfric proved it himself the possibility of such a minority...-however small.

Well of course there is a minority, but for the most part there really is nobody who cares about them. :|

I'm not saying people shouldn't make fancharacters; anyone can make anything that they want.

It's important to remember, however, that this is a public forum, and that posting said fancharacter is just cluttering up the place.

I dunno, those are just my thoughts.

Well it really annoys me when someone says something and makes it sound as though it's an absolute fact. >_>

I understand. Who's to say what's fact and what's fiction?

But then again, this whole fancharacter and Shadow fiasco is a harsh reality we kinda have to face. :|

I guess you are right.  However, I would not upload said fancharacter on the Vault, as I would know that no one would DL it.

Making fancharacters is cool and all, and, hey, you can do whatever you want to do in your free time.  I'm just saying that uploading fancharacters to the Vault is unusual and, quite frankly, a little annoying.

Harsh reality? Wow....i know there no need for so much of the same thing, and I sure as hell dont like it, but its not that bad. If you dont like it, dont download.

I can imagine this: when shadow get his vertexed eyes or his white shoes with no blue light, another new war of shadows return to the vault..

I finish creating my own "texture" on shadow (more red, black!!!!). but i never gonna post the character here!!.... bcz there are many shadows...   :srs:

If I were going to make a Perfect Shadow texture, It would have extremely realistic fur, meaning the skin would literally look like a bunch of needles packed together rather than the streamline look.

I would actually be OK with that, because I would know that it would take a fair amount of work to make that hack.  All of these recent Shadow's though, they're little more then minor edits to existing textures and vertex hacks. :srs:

Sorry, I have a tendency to overexaggerate things from time to time. ^_^;

In total agreement.  I went away for months because I was getting so bored with the drudgery and hoped when I came back I would find a bunch of amazing stuff... But no.  The hard truth is creativity is just more time consuming.

BUT [censored] IF I SEE ANOTHER CLOUD OR SHADOW...

I hate how people say something and want to make it look like a fact.

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=5868
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=5490
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=15041
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=14185
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=14388
Those are all fan made characters (Or most), and they HAVE downloads, there are more, but those are the ones I remember seeing before.

Um, most of those are barely downloaded at all.  In fact, the only two that have any decent amount of downloads have been available for months.  Sure, they have some downloads, so I guess that some people care about them, but when you compare these hacks to ones of non-fancharacters, you'll see that the the non-fancharacters have far more downloads, meaning that far more people want them in their hacked Brawls.

 :notimp:

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=11147

This guy is downloaded because he looks cool.

Marth one is better :U
*shot*

there are like 71 Sonic texture like Shadow in the vault (vertex and normal Sonic)
im not counting "fan-characters" like ¿?Flame the hedgehog?¿, go to the "sonic vault" and you're gonna get another surprise.
btw im a Shadow fan too  :notimp:

Yes, we all know that there are too many repeat hacks and fancharacters, especially over Sonic.  The real question is why and what can we do to stem the tide of these kinds of hacks.

We need to address the larger problem of why hackers, mostly new ones, are choosing to make these kinds of hacks.  Is it because more original hacks are too difficult to make?  If we can solve this problem, then we'll never have to worry about "too many Shadow hacks" ever again.

So, any ideas?

I think it's mainly the fact that the newer ones don't put in the research to learn how to do stuff themselves.

I mean, I want to say it's a lack of resources, but obviously there are plenty of in-depth tutorials at their disposal, so why they don't use them confuses me.

And I really want to say that we should make help more available, but it's just as available as the tutorials....

I guess you're right.  Most new hackers are either too lazy or too unsure of there own abilities to create new hacks, so instead they just build off of existing hacks so that they can get a lot of DL's.

Hey, maybe that's the problem.  Maybe these kinds of hackers are worried about DL's so much that, instead of creating their own stuff, they just make minor edits to previous hacks and leech off of the hard work of other hackers.

Still doesn't explain the prevalence of Sonic fancharacters, but at least it's a start.

I bet people wouldn't be able to make Shadow STAGES!
LenSho or Mewtwo2000 probably could... But I'm just sayin.

Maybe "deleting" some repeated hacks like the "black hedgehog mania" with a 100 less downloads or 999-
There are many repeated character with no downloads in the vault, you know some Sonics (nobody in this times download a sonic with shadow texture without vertex), marth (the same with sonic but with sephiroth, roys) textures, i think this is the only way to finish this, but is not a good idea for the new hackers.

Its called hype. You can't blame the thousand or so people because of hype. The crowd gets what they want. Thats how business works. And other "companies" will try to copy or work off the thing that is winning.

And therein lies the problem: you can't stop people from being stupid. You can put rules and regulations on the hacks that get submitted to the Vault, but you can't stop people from simply wanting the downloads and attention.

I just wish there was one simple solution to it. :(

But hackers shouldn't be concerned about "winning."  It's not like hackers get anything for getting lots of downloads. Hackers should be hacking not for downloads, but for creating enjoyment for both the hacking community and themselves.

No, deleting hacks is a bad idea.  That could really offend some people.  Besides, we shouldn't worry about those repeat hacks that have already been made.  What's done is done.  We should worry about future repeat hacks and what we can do to encourage hackers to use more creativity.

Im not in disagree with them, but the brawlvault logo says something for the hackers, you can see something, theres no new shadow textures today!! is a new record  ;D

<_<

I think BrawlVault is kind of part of the problem. Before brawlvault everyone who wanted to share and show off their hacks had to make a thread. There was no download counter, people had to find decent hacks by scouring the forums and good hacks spread through word of mouth.

I kind of miss those days in a way, where everyone had to make a thread pretty much (unless you were on a team) and there was a lot more incentive to post constructive comments and criticisms as well. If you haven't noticed, most of these crappy Shadows that have been coming out lately are by people who don't post them around the forums; they don't want the feedback 'cuz they know what they're gonna hear. The quality hackers allow people to give them feedback and Brawlvault has kind of removed that in a way, it's given people a way to submit hacks without that worry of criticism.

The thing with Brawlvault, as soon as you go there, you seem "Top Downloaded Hacks." People want to be there, even if it's only for a few days just for the temporary feeling of popularity. And an easy way to get up there lately has been makin a Shadow, though thats only one way.

@BeyondYou
I suppose that this lack of creativity is the price we pay for the ease of finding hacks with Brawl Vault.

Still, I don't see why people care so much for downloads.  DL's don't matter at all!  Making hacks that you are proud of is what really matters!

ATM, the only two Shadow downloads on the Top 10 list are SDo0m's Shadow PSA and boot's "final" version of Shadow.

But there's another one on the Top 20.

While that is nice, there's nothing that says that we aren't gonna have another influx of Shadow hacks and re-hacks.  It might be next month, next week or even next day, but unless something is done, this is all gonna happen again.  Heck, it may not even be with Shadow.  It could be for a new version of Cloud, or people could try and make different versions of BeyondYou's Naruto hack.

I know that I sound like I'm blowing this whole thing out of proportion, but I really like the cool stuff that's made by the hackers here and I would love to see new hackers join and make quality hacks of unrepresented characters and series.  I would hate to see this community overrun by people that only know how to make new versions of Shadow. :srs: 

but this is why brawlvault is very popular,  is the same fact that new hackers are motivated to make new textures/fan-characters = more users in the vault.

Who cares about popularity? If nobody new about the Vault and there were only original, non-fancharacter/Shadow hacks, then I think it would be better off.

is because they are new in the hack things, learn to texture a character is easy but they cant vertex a simple character like you or all the people in this topic (im not included in this list), there are more new hackers in the vault than pros. and you know shadow or sonic is the main target to create a fan character.  :o

But here's the thing: it still is possible to be creative with texturing.

Before vertexing was feasible, you could only texture. And even then, in the primordial days of Brawl hacking, people were putting out stuff a billion times more creative than what comes out today.

It's not that they can't be creative, it's that they won't.

To be fair, people were more creative way back when because they were the first ones there.  They had nothing to build off of with there hacks, so, by default, they were creative.  Even back then, there were plenty of versions of Roy, Shadow and Cloud.

Still, you hardly saw any fancharacters back then (and those are the ones that really piss me off.)

^This. All day.

Couldn't agree more.


Also.... just when you thought it was over: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=15335

 :srs:

Oh, well.... at least it's not just a revamp...?

Ugh. >:|

hahaha this is the cruel truth, I give up my friends  ;D
maybe some new hackers are lazy to vertex but not texturing?
pfff zombie shadow...

The person who made that was here longer than most of us......

shadow this shadow that it will not end!!! :rage:

Still another Shadow, and that's what matters.  I don't care who made it.  It could have been someone that joined yesterday, or it could have been any one of the admins.  If someone makes a Shadow hack, I'll be disappointed, and judging by the responses here, so will many other people.

I was joking :srs: Although its hard to tell so I guess I'm at fault. I'm going to release a Shadow VIDEO soon anyways...

it doesn't matter if it's Zombie Shadow what really matters is that a normal Shadow is submited into the vault

>_> You guys are talking about the Shadows and the fan-characters... what about the fan-fan-characters, those that are clearly a mockery of fan-characters as is? >_>;

Haven't seen any of those, though I always love a good parody.  Got any examples?

I'm totally not self-promoting myself here, even if it isn't a hack. >_>; (http://iwantanewscreen.deviantart.com/art/ORIGINAL-CHARACTER-DON-T-STEAL-181050412)

So much fail in this man!  :srs:

I disagree, I think it's so much WIN XD

Oh, and despite the fact that I've posted this in other topics before, I wanna post it again 4 da lulz XD (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=15239)

Why does it need to be V2?  V FREAKIN 2!

OMG, CINOS DA HEDGEHOG! HE'S FROM MEXICO?
Seriously, I lol'd.

 :oshi:
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=15463&Moderated=All&facebook=true
It just will not stop thats it shadow most Die!!

Who cares, it's not even a real Shadow it's just a texture on sonic.

Ok.
This is my breaking point.
That does not even look like Shadow, it was a joke, and you people are stupid enough to report it for absolutely no reason at all.

Great job you guys, I actually thought most of you were better than this. :srs:

Hell, i could even release my Shadow.

Just stick with the Shadows/Sir Lancelot(Great job) in your vault.

I don't know if I should post a video saying memories and dark sonic 19 are late on the Shadow Hating or that they're stupid for taking a parody Shadow hack seriously.

Aw what the hell, let's use both! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIwa5Ek1M_0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unfJUOKmBTg

But seriously, guys. >_> It was a damn parody. Wasn't it obvious?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

Yeah i notice, good videos

I think the wave of shadows has stopped and everyone has gotten the message that we can only store so many shadows on our SD cards.
Now we just have to wait for everyone to start making some original hacks... :srs:

You DO realize that this one is just trolling? >_>

^Its obvious...how?

LMAO.

It'll never end : http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=15773&Moderated=All&facebook=true
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=15770&Moderated=All&facebook=true

Can we change the topic title to "Thinking outside of the overdone Sonic franchise"?

It's not clever or anything, but...

Damn you! You beat me to it lol

i know blackboo im sick of shadows! how many have there been like 200?

anyways blackboo, nice midna cant wait to use it.

I think this thread should be sticky'd :srs:

Hey guiz.
Im might plan on making a Shadow. :af:

:happy:!!!!

Shadow, you say? (http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/b/a/bakaishappyplz.png?2)

Shadow!!!

Will it be Shadow: The Ultimate Championship Edition DX Edition HD version?

Never.

I will call it.
"SuperDuperNewAwesomeSexySpecialCoolMegaSupremePer fectFinal HD Shadow the Hedgehog."

Or

"Shadow the Hedgehog"

Will work fine.

lol

^
I think "Shadow the Hedgehog" are good.

Oh look:

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=16019

Complete Shadow and OMG he looks perfect!

and look, more Shadows and MORE recolors and more overated!

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=16023

Seriously, this is f*cking ridiculous. How many entries of the same thing do you need? Do you not have imagination? Are you that bored?

Maybe that Shadow icon with a red cross on his face should be the BV icon again.

I've said it time and again, the red cross was not on his face, it was in the "Brawl" word. >_>

It implied this was the "Shadow Vault".

...though, sarcasm usually isn't the best way to depict the current situation at hand.

I don't give a damn what you think.

That doesn't stop there being 80 Shadows in the vault. That's f*cking pathetic, and you just made the situation even more pathetic.

I'm going to side with the Stallion on this one. I mean, I know they're "revamps", but at this point, can we at least get rid of some of the older versions? This is, like Stallion said, pathetic.

Jesus, sorry I said anything.

LC didn't insult you or offend you in any way. Picano himself mentionned the fact the cross had been put on the "Brawl" of BrawlVault, and replaced with a Shadow, making it the ShadowVault, in a sarcastic manner. Said name was visible on the blog too.
So he just corrected your mistake, like anyone would have done, myself included. >_>

Stop overreacting to random people on the internet, Italian. It's getting really annoying.

I expect some apologies ...

I think Picano should put a message in giant letter in BrawlVault that says
"NO MORE SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG HACKS. THERE ARE PLENTY TO CHOOSE FROM."

Oh...I didn't really agree with THAT part of his post, just the Shadow part. Sorry....

This.

Me and LC are good now, we talked about it like grown man, so let's not turn this thread into a flame war.

Now on another note, I think this hack wins for not being a Shadow hack!

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=15984

This is a good example of originality. Maybe someone should make a good vertexture of Tails, Rouge, etc. There is other Sonic series characters, you know. <_<

That's because StarWaffle is smart.

For other characters, WE NEED A VERTEX OF BIG, MARINE, ELISE, AND A LOT OF THE OTHER FORGOTTEN CHARACTERS :U
JK lol

I already took care of 70% of the Sonic population. >.>
And Espio is in the works.

nice apology
good thinking with the subtle subject-change

Dude if you teach me your ways I will make things you cant even begin to subconsciously imagine. Before brawl came out I would just draw and write new ideas.
I had whole pages of new characters and such.

Baby Bowser transform into Shadow Mario. Boom.

Your mind is blown.

^There are guides, also I have a pretty good imagination, I doubt you could make things i couldn't even imagine.

lol

would plans for dev-ing a VG that's more twisted than 'Inception'
and more complicated than 'Mass Effect' count as a good imagination :D

(no hints as to the game) ;)

man, I can confirm my prediction of the new "vertexed eyes" of shadow... T.T (from january 3)
btw i download this shadow too  ;)
I really like the new Silver the hedgehog vertex, maybe he is the future of Silver Vault?

Nah, Silver's not emo enough.

>_> He's just Trunks the Hedgehog, really.

ideas time? Ok imagine this; we vertex shadow out of brawlvault.  Then theres no more shadow.  IKR?  Freaking brilliant.

Yeah yeah, cool story bro.

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=16096 :notimp:

:>.>palm:

Really? When will this stop. That isn't even an improvement, they made it worse. 7 people downloaded that? Seriously? They're giving that guy way more than he deserves.

I'm serious when I say that these Shadow hacks should be reviewed by the BrawlVault Admins first to check if enough has been changed or improved before allowing it in the vault.

This and this below:

Epic Win
Here I show you a crude history of why ppl dont want to learn in the hard way: they want to share their infinite shadow textures to us... how cute and brilliant...
but dont erase them bcz, you know their feelings, is like copy a homework and you see the teacher burning your hard (and copied) work, they dont need learn in that way... is, is... PAINFUL but TRUE!
the end  >.>

PrideToBeMe saves the day again! (if you are red ganondorf)

All of the above.

Thanks Pride, I found a new wallpaper.

I am FAR beyond the Shadow of a doubt that this hedgehog's "revamps" have gotta stop... Like srsly!

Not to mention the loadz of downloadz this overmade hedgehog gets...

While we wish that our hard work could get into the top 10 for a brief period of time... (I still remember when I got my Boshi V2 in there...) Those wishes can easily be taken away due to these brain damaged Shadows' stealing that time away as every "new" one is made.

The ones in the top 10 are okay for the most part but ANY other one should go away into the dark shadows they belong in... lol

new shadow in the vault lol, over dk (again) but ver.1... what is his last version now

^ Its a different one entirely....

so shadow over DK is another character (not shadow)? if the psa, texture/vertex is different, is a a different character? so why he is named Shadow the Hedgehog?  :-\

Dear god, I don't know what's worse to stomach.

A buttload of Shadow clones ALL LOOKING SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT (and I mean VERY slightly) or the god-awful fan characters that luckily aren't having as much screentime...

...which doesn't help the fact that we have enough Shadows to stuff every .pcs and .pac available in Brawl for all characters, SEPERATELY.

After seeing THIS:

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=16131

I lol'd

wtf!!, they censure Zero suit samus but shadow??
btw another shadow is on the vault. I think is the same user who create the "Final Shadow the hedgehog" some months ago...

Hax... really?

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=16147

It wasn't made to prevent other, that's gonna make more people now edit THAT model and make more "perfect" Shadows.

Does there have to be a f*cking Shadow submitted every single damn day?

Hax... That was pathetic, really, we have enough Shadows in the vault... Do we REALLY need ANOTHER ONE!?

"Enough, is enough! I've had it with these monkey fighting Shadows, on this Monday to Friday vault!"

I thought you guys actually had faith in this.
I actually did.

I also can't believe you two didn't bother to listen to my countless hints about making him.
And, if you're blind enough not to see my avatar, you would have guessed that Mr Shadow Fanboy hates being 1-upped.

So stop it with the "Really Hax?" bullcrap, i could care less about your pity, especially when its from this situation.
So instead of female doging like a 10 year old, maybe you guys can actually ignore some of the [censored] you see.



Like I said, END OF SHADOW DISCUSSION.

Why isnt my butt shadow in the pack?
Also make a half shadow half sonic character.
Split down the middle.

You needed more quality, you can call it "Super Duper HD Shadow" of the butts are not HD.

And the "Shadic" you're taking about may be a bit impossible, until i try something....

No offense, but Butt Shadow is WTF.
Half Sonic+Half Shadow=Shadic.

It was a joke cause I saw like 3 shadows on the front page and I thought I would make my own.  :af:

Shadic is an established thing then?

I don't think you quite understand.  You see the Shadow over Donkey Kong port is of MY Shadow PSA.  All the previous ones were of mastaklo's etc  And quite a few people wanted my Shadow over Donkey Kong anyways.

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=16147

This Shadow isn't different from the others (at least major differences). People stop doing Shadows, because it becomes really ridiculous.
Besides, who would be ready  to count all the SHadows gthat are in the vault ? xD

The only pity hear is the pity towards your pathetic f*cking attempt of this [censored].

We are all here in this thread to re-unite to talk about Shadow issue, yet you go and do one yourself? You're excuse is look at your avatar? Get the f*ck out of here.

Like I said, this will not stop the Shadows. It wasn't made to prevent other, that's gonna make more people now edit THAT model and make more "perfect" Shadows.

So when I say "Really Hax?" Yeah, f*cking really Hax? You followed the stupid Sonic fanboy trend and did it yourself, and expected us to be like "OMG this is perfect!!" No.

Don't tell people that the discussion about Shadow ends here like you run [censored], when you don't. You're not an Moderator, you are not an Administrator.

Matter of fact, maybe someone with power should do something about this Shadow issue since there's a damn Shadow hack submitted everyday.

I Just got home and I'm sure there's one probably already submitted, or will be very soon.

This Shadow [censored] makes BrawlVault look like a f*cking joke.

I didn't even bother reading your little essay.

Oh no. I bet you read every single word I said, specially since I'm talking [censored] to you.

Why did I waste my time on you?

Well, don't worry, I'm sure your Shadow will get 219437890122 downloads, because of the dumb ass fanboys like yourself downloading it.

I guess people with no talent have to get downloads some way.

Now I have absolutely no respect for you, so enjoy your title of being a follower, with no originality.

Now the discussion ends here.

Just one more thing to say.
You made a Shadow.
You didn't even credit 2 people who i know helped make the base texture either.
Keep your respect, i would never want repect from a person like you.
You never even vertexed, either, so how can you critize when it comes to vertexing ability?

If you want to keep on ranting around, pm me and tell me your rants.

For one thing, he made the shadow before there were 80 other f*cking shadows on the vault.

Secondly, that texture was not a recreation of a previous hack. It was original at the time.

Third, no one will "repect" you if you "critize" those being perfectly reasonable without even CHECKING YOUR F*CKING SPELLING!

I've tried to make this concise so it'll get into your f*cking fanboy head.

^....yea.

I think I'm going to have to explain something ...

Here's an extract of what I consider essential remarks about how to NOT act like a jerk on boards :

- Reacting to what's right and not only to what's wrong: By this, I think about everyone here (artists, project creators, etc) who is spending hours and hours of efforts to create things, with most of the time very little feedback... Next time you have a long and boring evening, and you feel like using your keyboard, first think about writing to the ones who made you dream, made you happy, or made your life easier. Before writing to the ones who have irritated you. It is a better distribution of your priorities, and it will make somebody happy.

This topic is supposed to promote originality, not flame people who lack imagination.
This thread will stay locked for a little while, until some people here settle down. After that, there'd better not be a single more post directing hate toward a hack, or a person.
Feel free to point out interesting novelties instead. That's how you think positively.

PS : Hax, I'm sorry to be harsh, but what do you make of this, that you posted a bit earlier ?
However, your next hack is another addon on Shadow ? Where are the actual new characters ? Don't expect people to greet you warmly after that, especially if your justification is "not wanting to be 1-upped". (What is that ? A competition ?)

Doesn't give any of them the right to trash talk to you, but don't think that they are wrong either. >_>
I think you (and probably Wave, I guess ?) should take into consideration how much impact you have on the Vault. And how cluttered it can become just because of a single hack one of you two have made.

Now, peace out. >_>