Kitty Corp Meow Mix Forums

After being inspired by seeing what Raijinmaru did with my Peach, I really wanted to make one for Zelda too but didn't want to keep bugging people to do all the Sawndz stuff for me. So I hit the tutorials and... well, here's the first completed sound pack that I did by myself  ;) I tried this out pretty extensively and fixed the sounds that I thought were too annoying.

Zelda+Sheik - includes hex pack! I just need a preview of this in action now: http://suzumiya-haruhi.net/brawl/zeldasheik.zip

What I need help with: I want to upload this to the gallery, but a preview is required and I don't have a capture card. So would someone be willing to download this and make a little youtube video that I could use as a preview? You'll be credited, of course.

Zero Suit Samus: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=20001
Peach (courtesy of Raijinmaru): http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=19343
Pokemon Trainer (Brawl Taunts Edition): http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=20111

Disclaimer: Don't be dumb. Back up your smashbros_sound.brsar before applying anything - they work fine in my Brawl, but you never know.

If someone would put this into Zelda's file for me i'd do a showcase of it, not a problem :)

*Pokes head out*

That I can do! It's been a long time since I helped you, so I'll inject (and fix if necessary) the files for you, create a hex packet, and send it to you!

Alright, if you can send me them today i could make a video today or tomorrow, depending on what time you send it over through PM :P

Also, little off-topic but.. did you ever make that package with the swapped names i requested from you in the female announcer topic?

I'd have to get a new .brsar to add the new sounds, but I'll do that alongside these!

Sorry I haven't gotten to it sooner, but ever since that last time, I've been awfully busy with other things.

It's ok, i've been busy as hell myself :P I really gotta back up my Japanese sounds first before i forget to xD
I like the JAP sounds more then the NTSC/PAL ones to be honest, though Rina-chan's announcer calls make me want to switch back again XD

@Equilibrium: Remind me what you need for the announcer calls~ I thought I got all the requests, but maybe I didn't!

Have a brsar with this + my peach voice:
http://www.mediafire.com/?eqv0dd212g2hc8v

(nothing else added)

well I see another audio hack in the works... need any more help?
also got nothing better to do anyway so I can also adjust volume issues

No you did mine, it was directed at 2DaMax.
Just so you know, i'm Pride/Puraidou, just using a different name at the moment :P


That's the file with both Zelda's and Peach's sounds in it? If so, i'll try to record today. I got a dinner party today so it is possible i'd have to do it tomorrow.

You want a showcase of all her moves with your sounds correct? (both Zelda and Peach)


edit: I'm currently rendering the file into a 1080P HD Video for YouTube, i'll link it when it's uploaded and ready.

rina, do you want me to hexify that for you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoK4J3vifW8

The video is done! 1080P HD Widescreen :P
The video laggs, it's cause i forgot to edit my Dolphin settings >.<"

Anyway, enjoy the video!

~Pride~

Thank you for the video! :)

OKAY SO. I figured out what was causing the "Zelda on testosterone" jumping sound - it sounded just fine when recorded, but the automatic frequency divide was screwing with everything and making it sound SUPER DEEP. So I remade the file and the issue is fixed now:
http://suzumiya-haruhi.net/brawl/sound24_jump01.wav
(the info in the "24" .dat file is still the same - it was the wav itself that was causing the problem. I updated the zip file in the main post to include this fix.)

If you notice the frequency divide field becomes something weird when inserting any of the other files (like "0.79" - it should be really close to 1) then let me know so I can fix the length of the sound.

@Diddy: I could use a hex pack for my ZSS :) I'm fixing the volume issues with the taunts right now, but I'll post a link to it when those are done.

if you have frequency divides, i might have a harder time, otherwise, I can insert the sounds myself or you can supply the dat files,

I  will also make a backup brsar incase people have trouble with the hex's

I think you should be uploading the hacks to your vault though... so when i hex it, i will send you both a preview and link (unless you already have the preview link someone else made)

Yeah, the zip file in the first post contains the .dat files so you don't have to worry about filling in the offset values or any of that junk.

I didn't want to use any frequency divide - I kept the files as close to the original length as possible - but for some reason Sawndz automatically changes it sometimes, like to 0.99 or 1.04. Let me know if you have any problems.

Haha, you're Peach voice is great. XD

I say you do voice overs for someone manly.

Like Ganon. :srs:

All right I fixed the frequency problem for a bunch o' sounds so they should all be better now. Makes me wonder if that's why my Peach sounds higher than I thought I recorded it :/

@Diddy: Here's the wav and dat files for ZSS. I fixed the volume so it should be fine now. I'll need a preview of this too if I want to put it in the vault >>; (I'll credit you for whatever you help with, of course.)
http://suzumiya-haruhi.net/brawl/rinachan4zss.zip

great, Ill get on it... (when done, I will also include a backup brsar, Which will ALSO have the hacks from the female announcer project, this brsar will contain ALL hacks I compile for you, so it can build up into a completely rina-chan''d brsar :af:

Awesome! Haha that will make it easier for people I think. I can do one too with just the character sounds since apparently a lot of people hate my announcer. :(

What makes you say that? O.o?
Cause personally, i loved it :D

I'd download a pack with your voice for Peach, Zelda and Zamus + the announcer calls and such. No doubt about it :D

I got some pretty discouraging comments on Smashboards and YouTube...it's surprising how nice the KC-MM community is, really.

Well YouTube has quite a disrespectful community in my opinion, some people on SB are waaayyy too [censored]y and expect way too much of things. KC-MM isn't angelic either since there are people around here who expect a lot in short time but less then YouTube and Smashboards.

I for one know that hackers like BeyondYou, ShadowSnake, ItalianStallion, Mewtwo2000, LenSho and many more have a lot of work on their vertexes and stages. Yet a lot of people still rush them to finish it, but Beyondyou and the others barely give notice to those kind of people so that's probably why the count of disrespectful people here is low.


Short version of this: Keep doing what you like to do and ignore the harsh and ignorant comments of people bashing your stuff for no reason. You're doing fine and i'm sure there's enough people if not a lot of people who like your voice in Brawl :)

I could probably record a preview video for the ZSS SFX over the weekend, granted you still need it by then.

my youtube video page for the preview of female announcer had some unpleasent comments, but most were "ZOMG must download nao" type comments

At least that Slashy person gave reasons on Smashboards as to -why- he didn't like it. The person who said "This is horrible" with no explanation...well, I have no clue how he thinks I shouldve made it better :c

These kinds of people are REALLY annoying imo... Besides that, I really appreciate the work you've done for us here at KC-MM so far.  ;)

Having a female announcer for Brawl is awesome and I'm glad you thought of it. It's one of those ideas I would never have thought of being possible... (Plus your voice is very well done, "Yoshi" sounds particularly epic imo.)

But the fun didn't stop there did it, After that you decided to work on getting some custom Wiimote sounds from Brawl Taunts too which was also a great idea! (Brawl Taunts was awesome so how could I NOT like this!)

and to top it all off, You've made some custom soundpacks of your Peach and Zelda voices which I like very much, and now... You're working on a Zero Suit Samus one atm, which is awesome!

Now that that's been said and done I have 2 more "quick" things to say... lol:  r)

Your voice is amazing and shouldn't be taken for granted. Them haters are probably just jealous that they can't shift their sound waves the way you can... That, or they are just monotonously picky. (I'm going to go with #2 lol)

Now, I'll end this message with me giving my most sincere thanks for all you've done for us thus far and I look forward to what the future holds as well... ;D

^This.  Haters are gonna hate and trolls are gonna troll.  If the person made some kind statement without any evidence backing it up, then you should just turn your nose away from that person.Chances are, the person wouldn't even know where to start placing sfx, and probably not talented enough to there their own voice work to make a custom announcer.

I see it as a new change in Brawl and some people weren't ready for it, While the rest love it for what it was and worth.  Vanilla is great and all but that person should try others ya know.

uploading preview ( I DO NOT KNOW what moves trigger what sound so i simply ran through the sound test)

I am so grateful to everyone here for their help and kind comments. Since the response to my voice projects was overall negative on Smashboards, I'm going to get some more detailed feedback from them about what they want, and hopefully release an alternate announcer pack. I'm scared to even post my character sounds there, although a lot of people I know in real life said they couldn't even really tell the difference from the official voices.

http://www.mediafire.com/?rujk60goawvynm5
Hex file

0x796220
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Paa8LChG88Q
apologies for not showing the moves with the sound or previewing ONLY the hacked sounds, it's because during battle i can't pull off ALL the sound triggers easily and simply, and i didn't know what sounds of them were patched and belonged to what

The video is still processing, darn xD

Aaaack, what is with Sound 22?! I better go look at that D:

Just so you know, you're voice is amazing. As soon as I heard your voice, I started downloading everything, yes,  everything. Even if I don't use it XD You have a great amount of creativity, and you fulfilled my request without me even posting it. I was gonna request the BlazBlue female announcer, but you made it even better. The only thing I'd say is keep on going with what you do ^_^ Haters gonna hate.

I wish I could record like you, I'd have sfx for Shadow, Silver, English voice for Marth, Actual dialogue for Link, Ryu, Dante, and a couple more.. Including Blaze and Rouge (don't ask XD), but sadly I don't have any equipment ): *Espio voice* I have failed..

Thank you so much. I do know a lot of good male voice actors, but the problem is that I don't think they would have the patience to learn how to do all the sound hacking stuff - it's so tedious! ;-;

@Diddy Kong: I am SO SORRY - those two sounds that were hella deep had their frequency accidentally changed for some reason. I fixed them here:
http://suzumiya-haruhi.net/brawl/sound28.wav
http://suzumiya-haruhi.net/brawl/sound32.wav

(You don't need to make another preview if you don't want - I'll just include a note that those sounds have been fixed in the actual download. Will this change anything for the hex pack?)

^Nice job with the preview Diddy! Just fix those 2 sounds already mentioned above me and it's good to go... ;D

And that shows you are more willing and capable of doing what they cannot. You're doing fine, they're just jealous :)

404.. I couldnt download them....

and my unread reply inbox hasn't been telling me about new replies to this thread lol =(
so I don't know until i randomly check the thread manually

Your voice hacks are amazing I love your voice, your able to do so well at it  ^^ and as everyone else mentioned just cause people talk crap dont stop ignore it, you think if some of the singers we have now listened to what some people said we might be out some epic singers D:

Sorry I put the wrong link T.T

http://suzumiya-haruhi.net/brawl/wave28.wav
http://suzumiya-haruhi.net/brawl/wave32.wav

Applied.
0x796220

http://www.mediafire.com/?ix657ds81s7vbpf
the OLD link in my last post will NOT work, you must now use this one

ZSS is now available for download!
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=20001

I took a look to your work with Peach. It is indeed really well done, to think we have someone here capable of redoing voices of a character staying close to the spirit of this character, I really love your work.

Unfortunately, I won't download your work, for some reasons, the most important is that I can't use it as it is for us Brsar, and I use a japanese brsar. And besides, I have an other set of voice for Peach. But really good voices, continue to do if you're taking pleasure of doing so, because I'm sure you will bring happiness to some other people. :)

Oh, and I wonder where you can go with your voice acting talent, I wonder if you would be able for example to make a very authoritary voice, a voice when we hear it, we already know it is a bad girl. :laugh: It is just curiosity of course.

if you have the offsets, you can tweek the ones rina saved in the dat file and to help you speed things up...
 drag This (http://www.mediafire.com/?106x1uuuel13krb) into the same directory where you extract the sounds to, right click in it when it opens, hit enter and paste the sawndz directory and hit ok,  now until you close it, whenever you clcik in it, it will open a file select, just choose the next wave, and it will move and rename it to sound.wav for you, and simply do the rest of the magic in sawndz

here is the zip she game me with her fixed sounds
http://www.mediafire.com/?x1q479nnkkz7a41


(assister.exe ONLY helps speed up the work on a batch of sounds, by eliminating the move/rename requirement)

It's really nice of you to give me a way to have them. I will try to get the offsets for the announcer, because this is what interest me the most, and I also have the same problem as it is for Us brsar. Thank you very much. But I will try this later, I don't have my wii anymore with me, I will retrieve in the middle of the next week.

Here is my regular voice acting demo if you're curious:
http://suzumiya-haruhi.net/voice.mp3

Amazing... Litterally amazing... It is not of the same level of diversity as some voices that I had the chance to hear, but it is already diversified, and you're a great voice actress for sure!

Me likey your voices :3

You should do a announcer like the "Upload complete" computer voice. That would be amazing :3

where would that one fire off at?

Fire off? And it's one of her voices in that demo she posted, it's like halfway through?

You're Pokemon Trainer voice is hilariously good! I love it...

ahaha you're hilarious! keep up the good work!

UP THE BUTT CHARIZARD!

I'm F**king annoying charizard! Don't you think so craptain falcon!?

Yay, updates!

Okay so. I finally figured out how to make hex packs (I feel dumb now because it was so easy!) and now the Pokemon Trainer has one. AND I finished Sheik, so the link in the main post has a hex pack which inserts Zelda and Sheik sounds easily at once!

BUT.. I need a preview before I can upload it to the gallery. I really think this one would work better shown in the match instead of just going through the sound test, so if you have a capture card and can do a quick little battle as Zelda and transform into Sheik at some point then I can upload it and it would be so much appreciated.

I DEFINITELY have a capture card, I will be editing an LP of brawl soon... where's the hex? i Have a brsar set aside specially for your hacks to either test or hexify for you 

It's in the main part of the zip.

THIS...THIS is what I hate. I don't like this super-kind treatment that several of you fans give her. This is why I don't like performers getting feedback on the internet because people like you focus more on the person rather than the performance. Did Rina-Chan really blow you away with that performance? Was it EXCEPTIONALLY good? Was it perfect? If not, then don't treat her like she did. If yes, then I'd like to see why this is so great.

It's THIS kind of mentality that I hate, it's this kind of mentality that some of her haters hate. It's this kind of mentality that any rational person should hate. The mentality that you actively attempt to give her some kind of benefit or bonus because there's something you like about her (I'm guessing the gender), rather than actively trying to objectively comment on her skills, and treat her with as much praise as she deserves.

You're giving Rina-Chan way too much credit for what she does, and ultimately I believe you're damaging her career in the process. It's 2011, and Rina-Chan's Marvel VS Capcom 3 fan reel is still loaded with voice cracks, bad accents, and obviously faked laughs. How can Rina-Chan still have these obvious problems after loads and loads of experience? Because you give her too much credit for what she does, you might overlook the minor flaws in a performance because "she's my friend" "she's a girl who plays smash bros.". This is stuff that explains why I don't think she's improved as much as she could have over the years. This is stuff that could cause her to fail an audition in the future.

It doesn't help that despite all this Rina-Chan still wants to go professional, and while she's definitely suited for low-budget anime and cartoons, I can't see her playing the lead role in any bigger budget series due to her having the problems I mentioned above. Keep in mind the next time you want to give her extra praise or less criticism, that you're giving her positive reinforcement to continue doing what she did for that performance. Keep in mind that when people want to pay her for her performances, they're going to be much more strict.

Let's give an example here in case you don't get it:

If your professor gives you A+'s on all of your homework regardless of how bad your work was, but when it comes time to take the exam for fail because there were several concepts that you never really understood. If you had failed just one of those assignments, then you might have went and studied the concept. Consequently, this would have lead to a better grade on the exam.

It's also seems like Rina-Chan is...well afraid of criticism, and looks like she's pretty much stopped pursuing other fields like writing, directing, or reporting. Rina-Chan should be a lot more used to negative feedback than she's getting, I could literally write a two page essay on why Brawl Taunts 2+3 and Street Fighter Club are cringe worthy at best and downright offensive at worst. I could easily write enough to explain why Rina-Chan is such a horrible reporter.

AFTER 2-3 YEARS SHE SHOULD KNOW THESE THINGS AND BE USED TO IT.

still.. the "female announcer" project she and I worked on was something new that I DID NOT see on brawl vault yet... ALL (excluding noises and goof off ones) were the male announcer dubs..  what got my attention for that was the idea and concept of the hack.
and still the PURE reasonless haters are the ones i hate... if they dislike it, that's ok, it's not in their taste, that's fine, everyone perfers/like different things and other's don't but to hate on something just because/or just because it's not what "everyone else" is doing, then that will set me off
(everyone is entitled to their own opinion)

it was those who hated it without reason that i am against, those that had a reason, opens a gateway to the "correct"  improvement

 now if you will excuse me, i will be getting back to my goofy sound/audio/THP hacks

(sorry for trailing off topic)

Well Diddy Kong, it's obvious you didn't give her obnoxious praise or respect.

What is this? Why do you care SO MUCH? Also, this is your first post here? Really?
Rina-chan's doing fine, nobody's perfect. :srs: Hacking can be just for FUN you know.

my point exactly when it comes to creation

He cares so much since the only thing he will ever accept is something that sounds exactly like the original announcer.

That's the same guy that in the Brawl+ days kept going on about how new characters couldn't be included unless they had an official announcer call.

Other than that, we should all just stop feeding the troll.

Please don't simply ignore what I say and just label it as trolling. I'm just being a harsh critic here, I don't see what's wrong with that.

Part of the reason you guys are so nice here is because most of you are artists yourselves, and you wouldn't want your work to be criticized so heavily, so you reject it.

I care so much because I am entertained with people like foreverpandering or LesBeardly, I care so much because I get the impression that people like him have actively killed her internet fame and have created haters. I feel people like him are exaggerating her talent, rather than leaving their interpretation up to themselves.I only brought up the original Brawl announcer as an attempt to artificially limit the number of characters that can go into the game, so people could only suggest those characters that had announcer calls.

I went in-depth on SmashBoards because I could tell where she went wrong and could easily compare her performance with others.

How is what I'm doing trolling? I'm saying that it would be good that in the future everyone be a lot more critical of her because she's...ya know...trying to go professional. You refuse to go into where I am wrong with my criticism and just proceed to say that I'm trolling.

Actually... How was he being a troll? Harsh, yes. Perhaps too much so, but he has a point. One MUST give feedback, nitpicks, and overall judge a voice actor's performance.

Without all that, one can be held back overall. Just look at any kind of work here. Such as PSAs. Without feedback, they remain unbalanced. But with feedback, they shine.

Well, same thing here. She needs to have SOME negative criticism. So she can improve her weak points. And better her work altogether.

she appears to be preparing to stir up something new (appears to be improvements on the way too)...

Yeah he is going to help me with making the announcer better.

Seriously, I'm glad you wanna help Rina-chan out Slashy. I really am, but why act so serious to the other forum members?  :srs:

Just so you know, I posted this in the secret board a couple days ago... but now it's on-topic so here ya go:

(This is one long post... so if you don't want to read this that's fine with me.)


Again, I'm glad you wanna help out Rina-chan. But maybe easing up on the OTHER members here at KC-MM would be best for all of us. Cause some people actually LIKE the female announcer replacement. If other people don't that's fine.

Helping people improve is a GOOD thing and I'm glad you're trying to do that. Just please, don't hate on the other people while doing so. What you said in page 4 doesn't apply to EVERYONE here ya know... Lighten up a little. (Feel free to keep giving your helpful feedback, but keep us out.)

You got that PM too?  That's basically the same thing he gave me a few days ago.  No... actually now that I look at it, it was on the same day, just several minutes after.  Almost the exact same content and everything.  Looks like he went to target anyone who said anything negative about "haters who don't Rina-chan's announcer replacement". 

Though it's funny, I had said the exact same thing as to not referring to the one who actually gives feedback to Rina-chan, but the ones who likes to "hit and run" with insults and nothing more.

It may be worded differently, but the content is awfully damn close....

Just several minutes from your PM.  From what I've read from this thread, people gives criticism, people gives praise, and nobody likes the ones who don't do either but only gives negative replies and runs away.  Why he misinterprets the crystal clear posts, I'll never know.

I find it appalling that he would go out of his way to actually attack members of the forum just because he didn't understand the implications of the "original" post.

Wait, he did this to you TOO?!? I'm sorry to hear that man... I sure hope no one else had to go through this nonsense like we did.

P.S. Let's get back on topic now guys. Poor Rina-chan doesn't need this internet drama in her thread any longer:

Slashy's helping her out, end of story. ;)

Agreed.  I'm actually quite looking forward to an "energetic" version of the female announcer replacement. :D

the new announcer project.... I can STILL help you out with those and upload the previews

I still need Zelda/Sheik previews though xD

what page is the link on again?
(I cleared my downloads folder so it got wiped)

While I will apologize for going crazy and maybe respect that some of you don't have the acute hearing  I have (my sense of smell and taste are weaker than the average), I won't take back anything I said. I don't think she's as worthy of as much praise as you give her or as much hatred as her haters give her (seriously you haters she's not that popular nor has she done anything to deserve your hatred, go hate on someone who deserves it like iJustine).

Will I stop my criticism? Well, no, but I will tone it down (especially since I ran out of things to criticize her for).

First page of this thread :)

Hey, Rina-Chan I just tried out all your voice packs, and they are awesome! :af:
I'm hyped up about the Female Announcer replacement, now! Oh, speaking of which, I was wondering if you could include some extra .wav's for extra characters, such as Shadow, Cloud, Sephiroth and the like. If not, I perfectly understand. In any case, keep up the good work!

slight delay... My capture card got fried mid-recording of another project so I won't be able to make the preview until i get another... (if i get another)

I have a capture card, so I could record it. I just need to learn how to remove the audio lag, someone said I needed to pick a faster compression scheme.

Yes i have a dazzle

i get audio lag or desync when i capture too..just need to resync them in something like vegas pro or movie maker

About all that that happened previous page. I just have to say, Slash, it's good that you're pointing out her flaws, but she doesn't "deserve harsh words. Criticism ca improve people, both positive and negative, but using words that can make people feel low? That's not cool man. Idc how much you give her negative criticism, just be polite and respectful.

She's just trying to provide an alternative to the boring old Brawl announcer. Hell, I wouldn't care if it was the MVC3 announcer voice, it's just an alternative to the Brawl one. It's something new that no one ever tried doing until she did the idea. Many people wanted a female announcer, and though hers may not be perfect, nothing is, it's still pretty good altogether. At least she's not saying phrases all monotonous and boring. There is still room for improvement though. And she can do different voices which can lead to variations to announcer styles.

Lastly, I personally like, not love, like her announcer pack and prefer to hear a female voice on my Brawl. It could be better though, more strength, power, and energy to the voice so it can truly be heard.

Well good news is that we're gonna fix it :) We found a base voice; I just haven't been home a lot so I haven't really had time to get things recorded yet...

*sigh* Again she's actually pretty darn good with voice acting just any snippet of Luminous Arc 2 shows she has amazing potential, it's just that for most of her performances she probably isn't getting good voice direction. As a result, 90% of her performances sound dull, similar, or are cringe worthy.

I guess my biggest upset and what is most aggrvating is that she directed this performance so everything could be unfortunately be blamed on her. She wasn't doing an impression and the hatred from Super Smash Flash basically showed that she had no business doing this all on her own, and she should have posted a sample before going ahead and compiling the whole voice pack.

In fact, there are two different roles she took for My Little Pony fan stuff. In Camaraderie is Supernatural, she puts on an average performance that still sounds unnatural off as...cringe-worthy (she speaks so fast that any semblance of acting comes off as forced) rather than menacing, while in Fiends of Dream Valley she pulls off an amazing performance. This is not magic, this is just a testament to the abilities of a good voice director, and in this case Yamino does a VERY good job at this.

Rina needs to understand that there is a BIG difference between directng and acting, and suprise suprise most of the good things she's been involved in weren't directed by her. The director's job is the what while the actor's job is the how. Rina-Chan knows how to pull off a good performance, but probably doesn't know what the performance entails in a given role. In the future she should get constant feedback if she is directing something on her own to ensure a good product.

^ lete's see how her new announcer turns out.... because the one I did for her.. didn't have much energy in it... I will be ready to help her compile the next...



========


on another note... I got a new capture card... I still need something to test drive it because it's supposed to be *10,0000x* better than my old one, did anyone take care of that preview while i was looking for a new card?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGD5SXm9tS4

Hey guys, Sheik and Zelda voice pack is finally up!
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=21149

! sawndz 0.12 is out... the packet format is now different AND the length/Hz rate limit can be longer (in length) or shorter, and at different frequencies.  I can recompile the hacks for you, given i'm supplied the sounds again...


do note, the  TOTAL working limit for each group (to work guaranteed) is 30 seconds (to be on the safe side, because sounds totaling too long a length can make other sounds from the group not work or mute entire groups somewhere else in the brsar) !