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Super Smash Bros. Brawl Hacking => Attacks and Animations => Topic started by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 04:10:38 PM



Title: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. UP Special
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 04:10:38 PM
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f161/jeremie_1992/spencer.png)
SPENCER


All right everyone! I am very excited to say that Nathan Spencer from bionic commando is being made!
He is going to be made on link, Link has a bunch of extra polygons for the bionic arm, plus he has a clawshot!

This is a group project, anyone who wants to join can! I hope to see the up most of quality though.

Lets Start brainstorming some ideas while i make the model.

..::Special attacks::..
-Neutral-
"Electric Shock: Spencer holds his hand out in front of him, creating a ball of electricity, dealing 3-11% (charge maxes out at 300 frames, but he starts to deal 1% to himself every 30 frames after 900 frames, and can be held indefinetly). In air, he uses Mario's F-Air with an electric trail behind his Bionic Arm. The aerial attack deals 7%"

-Side-
"Side B - Bionic Arm: Extends his Bionic Arm about 1/2 of Battlefield. Deals 4%, and if it connects, it stuns (ZSS Bullet kind), and then charges to the enemy really quickly and then kicks the opponent for 5% (Ike's Attack12), and punches them for 8% (Ike's Attack11), but the lag between the kick and punch, is enough for the opponent to escape (so it's balanced, if the lag isnt sufficient enough for him/her to escape... then that's instantly a spammable move, with high range, and 17% every time.)"
"Stun the opponent, then move Spencer forward quickly. It should work." -Gamma Ridley


-Up-

-Down-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=58UPTzny2qI#t=140s
"Down special-   Combo breaker!  smashes the ground with great force using his bionic arm! sends anyone directly touching the arm flying!  there should be a  shockwave of some sort ( about as big as DK's down special.   kind like the fsmash but pointed down.  In the air it will make him fall to the ground extremely quickly as fast/or faster than toon links down air. " -starwaffle
"Down B - Spencer whacks the ground with his arm. Hitting enemies nearby him. Cannot be link, and has a lot of ending lag. Deals 8%. Impales those nearby, and sweetspots on his arm, sending them flying."


-Final-

..::Smash Attacks
-Side
-Up
-Down

Regular Attacks::..
AAA-
Side-
Up-
Down-
Dash-

..::Air Attacks
-Neutral
-Forward
-Backward
-Up
-Down

Throws::..
Pummel-
Forward-
Backward-
Up-
Down-



Team Members
StarWaffle (Model, Animations)
Gamma Ridley (Animations)
Royal_Blade (PSA, Animations)
SJS (sexy CSP)


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 04:10:48 PM
UP SPECIAL

No tether =|

1- "spencer winds up a as if he were going to throw a ball as hard as he can in the air. ( very similar to how the characters throw the trophy stands upwards.)  at the end of the throw he throws out his bioonic grapple thingy,   since he threw it out SO fast and hard he gets dragged up into the after it.   its not a ledge grapple target thingy, its just a standard recovery move.  the grapple part itself should cause damage though." -starwaffle


2- "I like the idea of a rock smashing attack! maybe up special?   sneds his grapple up extramely high ( pikachus thunder high) grabs a rock and whips it directly downards. Him going up and the rock going down.  the rock hitting anything in its path" - starwaffle


3- " Basically Eldrian's Zero's Up Special, with his Bionic Arm hand outstretched. Has Ganondorf's Up Special GFX and SFX. Right before he goes into helpless, he boosts himself a bit more upward with a little explosion appearing at the bottom of his foot, deals 4%."-8o8 Dark


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: Allbait on August 30, 2011, 04:16:36 PM
A very... interesting choice of character... What? I never expected for someone to want to make spencer in brawl... o.o; Good luck with the project then ^^ hope it turns out nice, I'd help but y'know... suckers will suck at hacking <3
(Grabs would be very interesting in this moveset I imagine >:3)


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: ShadowSnake on August 30, 2011, 04:18:27 PM
I support this, cant wait for the vertex man i didnt think anyone would make him

Spencer's textures are on "the textures resource" if you want to make him more accurate.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 04:18:37 PM
I'd animate for you Waffles, but...

Well, I don't really know who he is. /:

I'll need plenty of reference videos for this to work.

... so yeah.

I hope to be of help to ya. =P


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 04:22:08 PM
I support this, cant wait for the vertex man i didnt think anyone would make him

Spencer's textures are on "the textures resource" if you want to make him more accurate.
Oh cool, i'll go grab em.


I'd animate for you Waffles, but...

Well, I don't really know who he is. /:

I'll need plenty of reference videos for this to work.

... so yeah.

I hope to be of help to ya. =P

Don't worry, most of the moves are gonna be from our imaginations, except maybe a few animations from mvc3,  like bionic arm =D


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 04:23:45 PM
Don't worry, most of the moves are gonna be from our imaginations, except maybe a few animations from mvc3,  like bionic arm =D

You sure you want to do that?

I dunno, I figured we'd be using whatever moveset he had as a basis. But if not, then ok.

You're in charge. XD


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 04:33:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Wm_PvOmUk&feature=fvst

00:23 - 00:25

For Side b i was thinking He would just use his grapple to reach across the stage and grab an enemy and pull them up close to spencer. This will allow him to  easily keep his up close and personal fighting style going.   

It would reach very far!  probably the full length of battlefield.     It should do very little damage, 2-4%  just because it has so much range.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 04:36:02 PM
I like that idea. I dunno if it would work for a side B, though, as we'd probably have to implement Catch collisions.

.... I think.

I hope we get a PSA'er on board with this. D:


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on August 30, 2011, 04:43:39 PM
Unfortunately, grappling specials aren't possible to program yet unless the character already has a grabbing special to work from (i.e. Falcon, Ganon, Lucario, Bowser etc).  Link's hookshot is his regular grab, and as a result this can't be translated to anywhere else. 

His MvC3 moveset isn't actually the best basis for a Smash moveset, since it's mainly grapples of sorts and he doesn't have very many moves at all.  So you'll definitely have to come up with some creative ideas ;)


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 04:47:53 PM
I see I see,  way we can make links grab have more range?    and yeah not many of his mvc3 attacks would work.   there a couple that would look nice, i saw a nice Foward air and a nice fsmash/ftilt.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on August 30, 2011, 04:49:07 PM
I see I see,  way we can make links grab have more range?    and yeah not many of his mvc3 attacks would work.   there a couple that would look nice, i saw a nice Foward air and a nice fsmash/ftilt.

Most likely.  I think it would literally just involve extending how far it goes in the animation.  Though I'm not 100% sure.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 04:51:30 PM
okay cool that'll be a good substitute. I just know that he needs range! while still being an up close fighter.    We'll have to nurf the throws though =P


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 04:52:40 PM
Yeah, you guys are right. His MvC3 moveset wouldn't do too well.

I see a few nice tilts, maybe a nair, but nothing too solid.

I wouldn't know what else to work off of. D:


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 04:55:59 PM
just think. Bad ass fist fighter with a giant metal arm.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
Well, as far as the grabs go, here is what I'm thinking:

-The actual grab will be him shooting the Clawshot, naturally
-A pummel similar to Samus, but with his left arm
-Up Throw: Tossing the foe up a bit then doing a backwards flip kick? I only say this because I saw him doing a flip kick in the MvC3 video and it seems fitting...
-Down Throw: Jumping off the foe, then shooting his hand at the foe for a distanced punch, sending them upwards. Maybe it could be chained with an aerial move....? He also did something similar to this in the video, I'd have to check for what time...
-Forward Throw: A hard left hook. Simple, I guess.
-Back Throw: .... uh....

... yeah.

Someone, please, for the love of God throw some ideas out. XD


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: ItalianStallion on August 30, 2011, 05:16:13 PM
The official thread has been made!

I know you got it under control, but I could help you out with his texture.

That's all I can do, unless you want a stage from Bionic Commando ;o


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 05:27:11 PM
9:00 - 9:05     side tilt or fsmash?



Let's think recovery moves!   there are no recovery moves in mvc3 so we gotta make one up.  how abouuuutttt.  

spencer winds up a as if he were going to throw a ball as hard as he can in the air. ( very similar to how the characters throw the trophy stands upwards.)  at the end of the throw he throws out his bioonic grapple thingy,   since he threw it out SO fast and hard he gets dragged up into the after it.   its not a ledge grapple target thingy, its just a standard recovery move.  the grapple part itself should cause damage though.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 05:31:00 PM
I was thinking that a tether recovery might have worked. Similar to ZSS's Up B.

That thing at 9:05 would make a decent Side Smash, I'm thinking.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 05:33:30 PM
I don't know if we can add a tether recovery as a special attack or not. PSA wise.  Link does have a zair recovery which is good.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 05:37:26 PM
I'm pretty sure we can add tether recoveries if he's is over a character who already has a tether recovery.

... I think. @_@

We need moar ideas for special moves though.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on August 30, 2011, 05:38:46 PM
I'm pretty sure we can add tether recoveries if he's is over a character who already has a tether recovery.

... I think. @_@

We need moar ideas for special moves though.

We can, but moving the tether to somewhere that isn't the Z Air is a pain.  I know, I tried with Spidey and failed miserably.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 05:39:59 PM
Oh poop. D:

This PSA thing sux.

SDoom, do you have any ideas you can contribute towards the moveset? My idea stream is running dry already. -.-


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on August 30, 2011, 05:42:25 PM
No actually :<  He's a really difficult one.  I'd have to put a good amount of thought into it to try and make some ideas that fit Spencer really nicely and define him as a character, but are obviously possible to do.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 05:43:27 PM
That would be much appreciated.

In the meantime, I'll... sit here.

And wait. :|

And maybe watch some gameplay videos of Ameratsu.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attacks
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 05:48:20 PM
hmmm,  well we cant have any projectiles ( even though i think he uses guns in bionic comando)  

Down special-   Combo breaker!  smashes the ground with great force using his bionic arm! sends anyone directly touching the arm flying!  there should be a  shockwave of some sort ( about as big as DK's down special.   kind like the fsmash but pointed down.  In the air it will make him fall to the ground extremely quickly as fast/or faster than toon links down air.



just throwing ideas out there.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 05:52:47 PM
Sounds fine to me. Not too difficult to animate, hopefully not too difficult to PSA.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Jaklub on August 30, 2011, 05:57:44 PM
I remember there were some bits in attack flags that controls if a hitbox affects only grounded, only aerial or both grounded and aerial enemies.

So that Down B shouldn't be too hard to do, unless I misunderstood something.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 06:02:52 PM
0:39 - 0:42   Neutral special?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C9_we55J_4



man, i guess he is going to be a long range/close combat fighter


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 06:06:20 PM
I remember there were some bits in attack flags that controls if a hitbox affects only grounded, only aerial or both grounded and aerial enemies.

So that Down B shouldn't be too hard to do, unless I misunderstood something.


I think I remember reading something about that. Not too sure how to implemenet it. /:

0:39 - 0:42   Neutral special?

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C9_we55J_4[/url]



man, i guess he is going to be a long range/close combat fighter


Actually, that may work better as a Down Smash. :O

If he is long range, his attacks will have to be made a bit weaker than normal to keep it balanced.

0:56 would make a good Down Throw too.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 06:14:16 PM
that looks like the perfect down throw!  and yeah i guess thats a good down smash!

man we need specials though. lets see here

I don't think he needs a reflector, i dont think he needs a counter, he could maybe have a charge move?  i still don't think that fits though.   

ideas! we need them!




Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 06:21:42 PM
Hopefully SDoom can provide us with something we can work with. I can't really say for sure what is and isn't possible. /:

As far as gameplay goes, we can make it so that moves involving him shooting his hand can "draw" a foe forward by adjusting the direction in PSA. I know that is possible, and can make for some interesting combos, I think.

I think I'll trawl around YouTube a bit to see what I can find.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: ShadowSnake on August 30, 2011, 06:23:06 PM
3 pages already? wow.

im sure if starwaffle didnt post it and it was some n00b instead, it wouldnt have any comments. :P


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: StarWaffle on August 30, 2011, 06:23:17 PM
okay cool, i'll go work on the model!


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: ShadowSnake on August 30, 2011, 06:24:23 PM
do you have any plans for a final smash?

also keep us updated with spencer model teasers plz. :P


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 30, 2011, 06:27:39 PM
3 pages already? wow.

im sure if starwaffle didnt post it and it was some n00b instead, it wouldnt have any comments. :P


Unfortunately, it's hard thinking of a moveset and making sure it's possible at the same time. D:

I was afraid it would turn out like this (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R6L6UEmyNAU/TkQTkKYcOWI/AAAAAAAAAGg/MB-5s1rp7zc/s1600/noob.png).

As far as the Final Smash goes.... we haven't gotten there yet. XD

Feel free to throw ideas out if you have any.

okay cool, i'll go work on the model!


Cool! Hopefully ideas wil start coming more swiftly once we have something tangible to work with.

Down B (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=58UPTzny2qI#t=140s)

And maybe we could implement this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=58UPTzny2qI#t=247s) somehow. We'd need a decent boulder model. (Probably not Charizard's)


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: ThyLASA on August 30, 2011, 07:39:12 PM
Neutral B should be armor piece


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on August 30, 2011, 09:34:39 PM
And I can animate and PSA some things. I haven't done any coding for specials, but I can do most of the other things.

Personally, I think the wire grapple should be his down special. On the ground, he'll perform a forward grapple, in the air, he'll perform a straight-down grapple.

We could have another version of wire grapple as side special. On ground, he'll fire the grapple at an upward angle, while in the air, it'll be fired at a downward angle.

Jaw Breaker should be Up Throw.

Armour Piercer should be Forward Smash.

And I saw some other things that would work for moves.

And Bionic Lancer... Neutral Special or Final Smash?
If it's his neutral special, could we make it like Olimar's where he has to be on the ground to use it?

EDIT: Wow... I did not see those other 2 pages...

Anyways, my ideas were based off the "In The Lab" MvC3 video.
I don't know bionic commando so I can't say much about that...


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on August 30, 2011, 09:41:38 PM
Neutral B - Gun: Shoots a bullet that travel forward, and will stop when it hits a wall. Deals 3%. Can chain with another bullet after 30 frames with another bullet by pressing A and deals 4%.

Side B - Bionic Arm: Extends his Bionic Arm about 1/2 of Battlefield. Deals 4%, and if it connects, it stuns (ZSS Bullet kind), and then charges to the enemy really quickly and then kicks the opponent for 5% (Ike's Attack12), and punches them for 8% (Ike's Attack11), but the lag between the kick and punch, is enough for the opponent to escape (so it's balanced, if the lag isnt sufficient enough for him/her to escape... then that's instantly a spammable move, with high range, and 17% every time.) If the joystick is rolled upwards, then the Bionic Arm goes more upwards.
Third Jump/Recovery/Up B - Jaw Breaker: An uppercut that send him upwards, and traps anyone hit by it. Deals about 1-2%, and deals up to 19% total. Goes into helpless, and at the very end (last frame), the attack spikes opponents.
Down B - Spencer whacks the ground with his arm. Hitting enemies nearby him. Cannot be link, and has a lot of ending lag. Deals 8%. Impales those nearby, and sweetspots on his arm, sending them flying.
Final Smash - First starts off with the Bionic Arm grab (Link's FS range). Then follows up with a lot of kneeing, kicking, punching, elbowing, and whatever else is melee combat, with his Bionic Arm holding the opponent in place. Deals a total of 82%, finished off with Bionic Lancer (18%), that has high knockback.

I got other things... but I'm a little busy atm


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on August 30, 2011, 10:27:46 PM
Umm... I've been wondering... if people are going to handling different things in PSA (like GFX, SFX, the bone damage, etc.) how are we all going to share the file?


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on August 31, 2011, 08:42:57 AM
I'm curious as to how we can animate the clawshot for the moves and such. It's a separate article. We'd be kinda guessing what hand it's on.

And for that boulder idea and model, I thought of something cool.

Since his Bionic Arm can pickup things and throw them at people. I thought if this for a down special. Nathan would put his hand down to the ground and if there's an Item that can be picked up, he'll grab it and shoot it forward. If there's no Item, then He'll grab Link's Bomb, which we'd port a boulder over, and he'd throw that forward.

If the idea of the items is too hard, then it can just be the boulder. Oh yeah, it's ground only.

And I thought that Bionic Lancer could be a side tilt? I know what you're thinking but my idea would have it function like Ganondorf's up tilt. He'll charge for a second, and then...
(http://static.bigstockphoto.com/thumbs/2/6/1/small/16234046.jpg)
He punches.
I'm saying this only because he's going to have good reach on his moves, that i'd give him one slow heavy move.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Ӄit ßallarɖ on August 31, 2011, 09:51:59 AM
Who's he over?


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Ricky (Br3) ♥ on August 31, 2011, 09:55:42 AM
Who's he over?

I'm assuming it's Link because of the clawshot.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Ӄit ßallarɖ on August 31, 2011, 10:21:44 AM
Using a char that has extra bones in the arm, you can create a fake claw, with a "wire", by shrinking the bone between the Middle of his lower arm, and his hand, by 0.3 or 0.4 in x,y, and z. Then translate the bones together to hide the wire and there you go. A Bionic Arm that can be "fired".


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on August 31, 2011, 10:44:09 AM
Yeah, but the clawshot works like that already XD

There's no need to make a new one.

And Star, what do you plan on doing with Link's Sword and Shield? If you want to include guns, is there like a default assault rifle or something that you can vertex the sword into?


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 31, 2011, 10:44:56 AM
Thanks for the ideas, guys!

I don't know if Link has any extra bones in his arm, I'ma have to take a look. He probably will, if there is a pattern to how Brawl models are rigged.

As far as him shooting a gun for his Neutral B.... well.... that's way too generic. o_o

Sorry, but I kinda want to stray away from using weapons like that. If anything, I'd rather incorporate them in some creative way.

I like the idea for the Side B, though. It effectively avoids the need to utilize Catch collisions, I think. Stun the opponent, then move Spencer forward quickly. It should work.

Blade, I really like the idea for the Down B. I'm pretty sure the item thing is possible, you'd probably have to look at what allows a character to eat food while on the ground. As for the Down B in the air, we can just stick with the pounding the ground thingy I suggested.

Yeah, but the clawshot works like that already XD

There's no need to make a new one.

And Star, what do you plan on doing with Link's Sword and Shield? If you want to include guns, is there like a default assault rifle or something that you can vertex the sword into?

Just so it gets read.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on August 31, 2011, 12:03:37 PM
Why not have the pounding thing as his Down Air?

Personally, I don't like when people set two different attack for ground and aerial specials. It's not Brawl-like.

And I know the gun/weaponry thing sounds cliche but what other ideas/moves can we use?

Off-topic: I just noticed this now, but MvC3 is 2D! Did anyone else know this?


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on August 31, 2011, 12:24:04 PM
Urgh, I hate that comment "It's not Brawl-like"

It's an idiotic comment.  And I mean REALLY idiotic.  Why should it matter?  Why do people feel so much that every attack from a moveset has to be relative to Smash current fundamentals?  Moveset making should be about finding new ways of doing things.  Exploring different ways to try and evolve the ways in which Smash is played.  It's all about progression and new ideas. 

Does it really bother people THAT much with moveset making when people try to be creative and fit as many different moves in as possible?  You know, to give more overall diversity to the moveset.  Again, that's silly.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on August 31, 2011, 01:04:05 PM
It's a personal opinion. If people are making hacks for characters to fight other Brawl characters, why would you make them fight like a freaking Capcom player? You can still implement new ideas and features while still keeping the character's playstlye to one that's unique but still fits the brawl-style of fighting.

And you're kinda being hypocritical. Majority of the PSA's you make or plan don't use multiple attacks for air and ground specials. Why don't you do more that have multiple attacks per special?

Anyways, we shouldn't be arguing here. If you want to continue this argument/discussion, we could do it through PM's. But I'm stopping the off-topic (ish) discussions right here.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on August 31, 2011, 01:30:47 PM
And you're kinda being hypocritical. Majority of the PSA's you make or plan don't use multiple attacks for air and ground specials. Why don't you do more that have multiple attacks per special?


I'm not being hypocritical in the slightest.  It would be hypocritical if I said I refused to do them for my movesets.  I only don't do them, because I usually can' t think of another idea that will benefit the overall moveset.  I think long and hard about how to construct a moveset, and I can generally do it better than most people here (as evident in how I do my PSAs). 

And you seem to have misunderstood what I said.  I never said that a moveset shouldn't fit with Brawl's style, I said it should show some kind of evolution and progression.  Look at Project:M Lucario for example.  With some proper thought anything can work.

And this isn't off topic at all.  It's discussing things about a moveset, which is exactly what the topic title says.  I'll try and think of some suggestions once I know exactly who Spencer is over.  Is it definitely confirmed he will be over Link?


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on August 31, 2011, 01:46:53 PM
Well, why not for his aerials, he keeps all of Link's aerials, since they all fit. And for his U-Air and D-Air, he uses his Bionic Arm to hit people. As for the Down B, I think that could work, but to model the bomb, that would have to an item edit though, wouldn't it? Also, instead of the stuff for his Final Smash, he uses Bionic Maneuvers as a combo to the Down B where he grabs the modified bomb and throws it, so after he throws it, he follows up with the combos? And after Jaw Breaker he can link it to Smash Kick if A is pressed, which can further link to aerials, and Critical Smash if B is pressed, and it spikes opponents caught in the attack. For his Side Smash, he uses ZSS' Side Smash? I'm just spitting out ideas that come to mind


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on August 31, 2011, 02:21:12 PM
I'm about 99% sure it's Link. Then again, it depends how the vertex works out.

Ok, then I misunderstood. But I did say "(ish)" since I kinda knew that it is relevant, but wasn't really sure.

Plus it's alot easier for Spencer at least to keep the specials the same because we're having quite some trouble brainstorming ideas. And we can't have him use his Grapple wire for everything.

Anyways, what kind of items or equipment is there in Bionic Commando? Maybe we can use something along those lines?

@8o8: I don't think an item edit is necessary for the bomb. That's only if you want to hold it in your hand which is not the case. He's just using the the bomb model not literally holding it.

And we can use this video If we want to use any MvC3 moves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzIi-QDc-3A

Here are some ideas I got from this:

AAA: A straight jab with his fist. Then a forward knee. We can basically remake C.Falc's Fair to make it look like a grounded version. Ending off with a low sweep with his bionic arm.

Side Tilt: His forward + H in MvC3. He performs a swing punch with his bionic arm moving him forward a bit.

Up Tilt: An upward diagonal straight jab with his bionic arm.

Down Tilt: A low straight kick. Low knockback. Like Ness' but not as spammable.

Forward Air: Basically Ganon's Fair but with his bionic arm instead. It has 3 different types of knockback depending on where you hit with the move. high knockback, semi-hard to hit with.

Back Air: Spencer turns around and kicks straight. Like Marth's Bair, he actually faces the other direction after execution of the move.

Up Air: And upward swing with his bionic arm. decent knockback.

Neutral Air: A downward angled straight jab with his fist. low knocback.

I'll put up more ideas soon.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 31, 2011, 03:02:06 PM
...

Ok

So

I think we're gonna stick with the Down B being different whether you're on the ground or in the air. It may not be "Brawl-like," but it beats the hell out of having his Down B doing nothing in air, which I think is preposterous.

As was mentioned earlier, MvC3 probably won't be a good idea to base a majority of the moveset one. However, Blade, those ideas are pretty good for a generic moveset, and they provide something to work off of. So thank you for that.

I'd like to state this up front: we will not merely use other characters' moves. I refuse to.

If we want a move to be similar to the move of another character, then I will reanimate it so that it's similar to the other move without being the same thing. This includes keeping Link's moves.

I say this for two reasons:

-It makes the moveset very unoriginal and bland
-I want to improve upon my animating skills

I realize the second point may sound a bit selfish, but that's just how I feel.

But seeing as how Waffles is in charge, it will be up to him to decide what the final moveset will be.

That is all.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: StarWaffle on August 31, 2011, 03:56:06 PM
YES! IDEAS! DISCUSSION! OPINIONS!    this is exactly what we need.

Also let me remind everyone, for the sake of avoiding pure chaos, At the moment we are only thinking of Special Attacks.   Down b sound like it was accepted as a tangible move.

That side b sounds very interested, the one where he stuns and then chases. I am just wondering how that would work?  you you automatically be hurried to the enemy? if so is that even possible in PSA to detect an enemies location and be transported there?  
If its just a set amount of distance traveled, then what hapens if you use it near the edge? you you zoom past the enemy and fly off stage?   Or maybe he should get a temporary speed boost? so he can ran super fast and we can control when he stops?  

Either way its a cool idea.


EDIT: Also we shouldn't steal any attacks animations from any other characters or even link. This is spencer.


EDIT 2:Spencer is 100% over link.    


EDIT 3:  I like the idea of a rock smashing attack! maybe up special?   sneds his grapple up extramely high ( pikachus thunder high) grabs a rock and whips it directly downards. Him going up and the rock going down.  the rock hitting anything in its path. ?


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 31, 2011, 03:59:16 PM
As far as the Side B goes, we may just have to animate him so that he flies far. So he may just fly over the edge. /:

I'm not sure how else we could do that, unless there's some sort of edge-collision-detection event in PSA we could implement.

We need ideas for the Up B. D:


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on August 31, 2011, 04:05:07 PM
You don't even need to make him fly far in the animation.  You can just make the animation loop until he touches an enemy.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 31, 2011, 04:06:55 PM
You don't even need to make him fly far in the animation.  You can just make the animation loop until he touches an enemy.

I figured there was a way. -_-"

How would one implement that in PSA, may I ask?


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: StarWaffle on August 31, 2011, 04:07:11 PM
You don't even need to make him fly far in the animation.  You can just make the animation loop until he touches an enemy.
wow thats excatly what i wanted to hear!


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: SiLeNtDo0m on August 31, 2011, 04:10:44 PM
I figured there was a way. -_-"

How would one implement that in PSA, may I ask?

Well basically, the easiest thing to do would be to make set a hitbox on Spencer whilst he's flying forward, and then just have an infinitely looped "If Hitbox Connects" so that you can change subaction once the hitbox connects.  This hitbox would do 0 damage and knockback, it would just exist there for the soul purpose of triggering the event.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on August 31, 2011, 04:11:43 PM
Well basically, the easiest thing to do would be to make set a hitbox on Spencer whilst he's flying forward, and then just have an infinitely looped "If Hitbox Connects" so that you can change subaction once the hitbox connects.  This hitbox would do 0 damage and knockback, it would just exist there for the soul purpose of triggering the event.

.... oh.

Uh

Ok. XD


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on August 31, 2011, 04:12:44 PM
Umm... I don't know 100% sure, but maybe base it somewhat off of Link's Final Smash, because that checks where the opponent is. We could base it off of that. Give the arm a stunning flag, then apply Link's Final Smash so that he dashes to the opponent. Not too sure though. Since Toon Link does the same thing, but with shorter range, try checking both of them, as that may help with coding that into his attack. And, basically he dashes really fast (like Link/Toon Link) to the enemy. And in the case the enemy was in the air when the move is used, i guess he flies off too, attacks with an aerial version (slight animation changes), then must find some way to get back to the edge E: 
EDIT 3:  I like the idea of a rock smashing attack! maybe up special?   sneds his grapple up extramely high ( pikachus thunder high) grabs a rock and whips it directly downards. Him going up and the rock going down.  the rock hitting anything in its path. ?

 If it's Pikachu Thunder high, that makes it extremely cheap doesn't it? Unless the height you gain when using it in air is very low...

And again for the Up Special, I another possiblility is Using a reanimated version of Ivysaur's Up Special, using the Bionic Arm instead, or uses some gadgets and jumps upward :3 (similar to Eldrian's Zero Up B)


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: StarWaffle on August 31, 2011, 04:14:38 PM
now how about in air you guys?   theres a chance he may not hit the enemy in air D=

EDIT:   yeah i just meant he grabs the rock from very high up ( so hopefully you dont see it appear out of no where)  He should get about the same height as the star fox characters.   and it wont be a spiking rock, that would be to much, just a small collision.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on August 31, 2011, 04:24:28 PM
oh. what about his aerial version

EDIT: For his Side B, I agree to just make an invisible hitbox so that when he touches it he starts the attack. Also if used in that way, he shouldnt miss, because if it stuns, then he/she shouldnt move at all, right? they just stay stuck looking funny, and spencer closes in and attacks. but... if i am wrong and they do fall down, then you could always make PSA check if the opponent is aerial and if it is, go to a new subaction - suicide with the opponent :P

EDIT 2: For his Final Smash, why not make it so that he uses an attack of his own: He starts up with shooting with his guns (10 bullets total, 3% each), then using a variation of Tabuu's attack where he grabs you with the whip and throws you, but instead of throwing them away, he brings them closer and unleashing a huge combo of melee combat/bionic arm epicness. Also, I can probably help with PSA, maybe animating simple things. For PSA, i can get GFX, some SFX, probably some attacks that dont require too complex programming. Dont know, ill have to wait till next week to start though, since i the computer i used to use is being fixed, and my current one ahs only 512MB of RAM, and is really slow.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: StarWaffle on August 31, 2011, 05:22:32 PM
Yeah I don't care too much about Final smashes to feel the need to make completely new one,  We can just use links as a base and add in some new animations of him doing cool [censored].


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on August 31, 2011, 06:33:42 PM
well, since there havent been too many neutral special ideas given out, what here are some ideas I came up with:
Bionic Lancer: Basically, Falcon Punch, but with different flags, GFX, and maybe longer reach, less lag, less damage, and an animation change

Earth Piercer: Spencer punches the ground below him, creating electric shockwaves coming out of the ground. Reaches roughly 1/3 of Final Destination, and can also make water of fire shockwaves come out of the ground instead of electricity. In air, he falls fast towards the ground, slight movement left/right is allowed, traps opponents. Deals 1-2% while trapped. If the attack connect to the ground, he creates ice shockwaves. All shockwaves deal 9% plus their respective element. Because the ice shockwaves could be highly spammable, an Asynchronous Timer should be added so that only if the attack lasts 60 frames, the shockwaves will appear. He falls about the speed of Ganondorf in freefall.
 
Electric Shock: Spencer holds his hand out in front of him, creating a ball of electricity, dealing 3-11% (charge maxes out at 300 frames, but he starts to deal 1% to himself every 30 frames after 900 frames, and can be held indefinetly). In air, he uses Mario's F-Air with an electric trail behind his Bionic Arm. The aerial attack deals 7%.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on August 31, 2011, 10:40:01 PM
We don't really need a loop animation... Because the grapple goes out for a certain distance, we can just have the grappling animation roughly the same length as the start time of the grapple.

Up special should be like ZSS. With his grapple wire, he fires upwards, if it connects, he latches on to the character and zips upwards. If it misses, it misses... But It can also tether ledges.

And Side specail should tether as well.

And He should have no Z-air, it should just be an air dodge.

-~-~-

Oh, I just thought of cool ideas for his grapple wire. We should have a kind of freeze frame when he grapples someone. (Like when you clawshot someone at max reach, it pauses for a moment.) We should have it that within that time, you can press the opposite direction to bring the character closer to you. And you can leave it if you want to approach people.

The thing about this is that people can't rely on these specials that often, because they usually produce endlag for spencer which would make him punishable. But that should be part of his playstyle. While being able to close distances between him and his foes, it will cost ya with ending lag or another sort.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on August 31, 2011, 11:33:18 PM
Well, if Spencer is going to have ZSS' Up Special and have his Side Special tether, wouldn't that be the teensiest bit overpowered, because in the description, it says 1/2 of Battlefield's length. That's basically gives Spencer to almost definitely recover, especially in small/medium sized stages, because of his vertical tether and the long reach horizontal tether. Maybe it could tether, but then in air the reach should be reduced to about... 1/4-1/3 of Final Destination; assuming you want to keep this PSA balanced.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: ItalianStallion on September 01, 2011, 01:12:50 AM
*brainstorms*

What alternate costumes do you guys have in mind for him?


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Ӄit ßallarɖ on September 01, 2011, 01:17:22 AM
Link? Well there goes that idea of mine. I just checked and he doesn't have that extra bone in his arm.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on September 01, 2011, 01:49:13 AM
Link? Well there goes that idea of mine. I just checked and he doesn't have that extra bone in his arm.
I thought it was already agreed on using the Clawshow/Hookshot for the Bionic Arm?

*brainstorms*

What alternate costumes do you guys have in mind for him?
I was thinking about those. Maybe his original is... the original but with a dark green, a bit more on the green side shirt, and then a red shirt for the red costume, blue shirt for the blue one, for the yellow he has a white t-shirt on or something, white is a bright/normal green colored shirt, and the difference is noticeable. The black one could be a black[er] Bionic Arm and a black shirt.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on September 01, 2011, 09:53:27 AM
We can use some of these for alternate costumes:
http://youtu.be/4lyYhBCIaOk?t=5m18s (http://youtu.be/4lyYhBCIaOk?t=5m18s)

And I was looking at the OP and noticed that were not using the rock idea for down special?

And Why not have his neutral special as his grenade launcher. He can fire one shot at a time and they'll travel the same distance as Link's uncharged arrows. Or just a tad more. Contact with the grenade with deal fire damage. It can deal like 10%.

Edit: Also name the side special to Grapple Wire. "Bionic Arm" reminds me of his Bionic Lancer special in MvC3. Also because the special is revolving around the wire that is grappling.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Victory Badguy on September 01, 2011, 12:46:28 PM
*brainstorms*

What alternate costumes do you guys have in mind for him?


He should have his Rearmed 1 & 2 costumes if possible.
(http://www.fightersgeneration.com/np6/char/rad-point.jpg)
(http://www.fightersgeneration.com/np6/char/spencer-dash2.png)

Unless you're talking just about alt colors, in which case his MvC3 colors should work fine.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on September 01, 2011, 01:18:49 PM
I don't think the MvC3 recolors are enough, so we could make his Rearmed 1&2 costumes.

From the video I posted above has 4 alternate colors. His original (green), a red, a sleeveless tee w/ dark camo pants, and an orange color... So we'ed (just made it up) a blue color, and another color. Maybe one of his rearmed costumes would do.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on September 01, 2011, 05:04:00 PM
Why not just make it so he only has four? Just a thought.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: DSX8 on September 01, 2011, 05:48:20 PM
i wouldnt mind bein a tester o.o


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on September 01, 2011, 05:56:33 PM
Umm... I was wondering, but... what are we going to do with Link's...
sword?
shield?
boomerang?
arrow?
bow?
or... are the boomerang, and bow and arrow part of the MotionEtc? And... how are we going to move the Clawshot a.k.a. Bionic Arm onto Link's actual arm? o.O or is the Bionic arm going to be attached to Link via the arm, which would become the rope.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Ricky (Br3) ♥ on September 01, 2011, 06:05:50 PM
Boomerang/bow/etc can probably be replaced and used for something else...


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Ӄit ßallarɖ on September 01, 2011, 08:04:06 PM
 *facepalm* The claw shot has it's own animation section. Personally I dono how to animate seprate models. If you was going to properly use the claw shot, you'd have to have it shape like a hand for the waits, which it doesn't have, then The grapple section for the different attacks, which it only has 2 of (air and ground, maybe a retract animation too). It'd be far easier to navigate bones on the existing model. Only down side is link doesn't have the nessisary bones. I do wish ya'll luck though,


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on September 01, 2011, 08:09:44 PM
*facepalm* The claw shot has it's own animation section. Personally I dono how to animate seprate models. If you was going to properly use the claw shot, you'd have to have it shape like a hand for the waits, which it doesn't have, then The grapple section for the different attacks, which it only has 2 of (air and ground, maybe a retract animation too). It'd be far easier to navigate bones on the existing model. Only down side is link doesn't have the nessisary bones. I do wish ya'll luck though,
uh-oh. couldnt you just make more so that it has all the same animations as the original model?


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Ӄit ßallarɖ on September 01, 2011, 08:13:42 PM
The Claw shot is in the model already, but in a different section of the file. It has it's own bone tree and everything. it would take a rather nifty trick to get it to merge with link's.... uh.... Is Spencer's Left arm Bionic? Well you get the point I hope. Adding Animation Nodes to The Clawshot's section will inflate the file size quite a bit.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: StarWaffle on September 01, 2011, 08:42:09 PM
no worries kit,  I do (and have already did) have a plan =P  I won't explain it cuz its too messy, but when you see the finished model you'll understand.


Also: no tether recovery or projectile attacks (no guns)


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Ӄit ßallarɖ on September 01, 2011, 09:18:45 PM
I'm sure ya do Wafflez. And no tether? kind of a downed idea considering link already has the data in the file.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Ricky (Br3) ♥ on September 01, 2011, 09:20:05 PM
Why no thether? D=


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on September 01, 2011, 09:21:44 PM
Back to the Special Attack brainstorming, for his Up Special possibly...
Jump: Basically Eldrian's Zero's Up Special, with his Bionic Arm hand outstretched. Has Ganondorf's Up Special GFX and SFX. Right before he goes into helpless, he boosts himself a bit more upward with a little explosion appearing at the bottom of his foot, deals 4%.

EDIT: For his Neutral Special: Combo. Starts out with a simple punch, but can be linked with 5 other, randomly selected attacks if the Special Button (B/2) is mashed again. Similar to Viewtiful Joe's Aerial Down Special, meaning it can be linked to infinitely, but only hits in front of him. Deals 2%.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: StarWaffle on September 01, 2011, 10:07:12 PM
hmm, i'm not too keen on that up speacial 8o8  but i do like the idea of that neutral b, its not a projectile and sounds fun!   

Everyone keep brainstorming! i'll gather all the special ideas up tomorrow, and we can discuss them.

and tether recovery is horrible. way too easily ledgeguarded, ya ya you can avoid it if you do so and so and such and such, but since we get to build the character I'd rather not have it. We can keep Zair as a tether recovery though. I want him to be able to recover normally


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on September 01, 2011, 11:25:07 PM
I saw this move and thought that It could be an up special:
http://youtu.be/LRr9rEL0JlQ?t=19m40s (http://youtu.be/LRr9rEL0JlQ?t=19m40s)
The person uses it often around this time in the video.

I have two methods that we can use to incorporate this.

1) Having him lift up a boulder out of nowhere (like charizard's rock smash) and jumps up and slams the rock at like 45 degree angle downwards (we could also have a 30 degree throw by tilting forward on the control stick). The boulder would deal about 10% damage but stuns like Falco's blaster.

2) Have him raise his arm as if he was going to throw up something. Then jumps up and swings his bionic arm, capable of meteor smashing. If a player is within range during the first part, they will be thrown up. which they will then be hit by the air strike at a 45 degree angle. (Again, we can have a 30 degree throw by tilting forward on the control stick).


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: StarWaffle on September 02, 2011, 12:03:20 AM
yes we do really need to implement this rock grabbing idea into a special move.

Let's think a little outside the box though, obviously we can just make him trow a rock at someone and hit them.  How about a special move, that doesn't hurt anyone? but can be used for a tactical advantage. (or even help out teamates)

This might not be possible. but i propose this.
spencer bends down and rips out the floor in front of him (not literally, we just generate a rock) and tosses it up and away from him .  this is where i think it might not be possible.  I want the rock that is thrown to be able to stand on it. So you are literally throwing the enemy away from you. when it reaches a certain level it will break and disappear.

here is a pic
This shows you how big the rock/platform is, how it is thrown and where it breaks/disappears
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f161/jeremie_1992/rockthrow-1.jpg)

>but staaaaaaar? whats the point of this if you can already grab and throw people?

True but i think this move work like this,   As soon as the rock is pulled and thrown spencer is free to move again very quickly ( he cannot however throw another rock until the first one is gone)  so in this manner you can chase the opponent into the sky for a follow up aerial/ juggle.  with a regular grab and throw there is ending lag, which makes this hard.

Also this is a SET distance traveled, you don't need to rack up damage to throw them the full length.  which means you have a chance for a K.O at low percents if you use it near the top of the screen.   you can even help teammates recover!


i dunno exactly how it would be PSA'ed tho, maybe generate a rolling crate and somehow make it follow a bone going upwards and then destroy it?   anyways. thats my idea.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Ricky (Br3) ♥ on September 02, 2011, 06:33:58 AM
Having a thether doesn't exclude a normal recovery ;)


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on September 02, 2011, 12:42:42 PM
But due to Nathan's long reach for his grapple. It kinda would be OP for him to have his grapples as a tether.

I find it interesting how we are taking a person who is very skilled in guns and having him not use any.

And Star, that idea would be interesting. But then again, being able to create your own platform is kinda OP. Think about it, knocking the enemy off to the side of the screen, then creating a platform to make it easier to chase people who are near death...
 __
( !  )
 |_|

I just got an idea!

If we can get Link's bomb model to work like a Bumper item. Once in place, it would stay there for a limited time. The thing is, we have to figure out how to make people stand on it...

If we could get that working, the create-a-platform idea should work.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: StarWaffle on September 02, 2011, 03:37:37 PM
But due to Nathan's long reach for his grapple. It kinda would be OP for him to have his grapples as a tether.

I find it interesting how we are taking a person who is very skilled in guns and having him not use any.

And Star, that idea would be interesting. But then again, being able to create your own platform is kinda OP. Think about it, knocking the enemy off to the side of the screen, then creating a platform to make it easier to chase people who are near death...
 __
( !  )
 |_|

I just got an idea!

If we can get Link's bomb model to work like a Bumper item. Once in place, it would stay there for a limited time. The thing is, we have to figure out how to make people stand on it...

If we could get that working, the create-a-platform idea should work.
its not too overpowered, need i remind you that the platform is as big as a rolling crate? and also since it is a platform, the enemies double jump and recovery move is refreshed.  Also the enemy would be able to run off the platform if they have good timing. think of it like the arwings on corneria, you just walk the opposite way to prevent you from flying off screen.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: SJS on September 02, 2011, 03:40:28 PM
I can make CSPs. That's about all =P


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on September 02, 2011, 04:06:07 PM
Yes, it is true that it can be beneficial for both players. Heck, it'd be so epic for team battles.
Ok, I agree with this. Unless you want my other idea for throwing the rock?

BUT. What special would that be (the platform)? Down or Neutral?

And I think the "Combo Breaker" down special idea in the first post should be his down air. It'll allow us to put in more unique things for specials.

@SJS: That would be nice!

EDIT:
So, If SJS is doing the CSP, which pose do you guys want? or do you want to deal with that later?

EDIT 2: And how's that vertex doing Star? I haven't heard or seen anything yet. Not that it really matters. As long as it gets done.

Another thing. I was thinking... Do you want to also make a Kirby hat for this? If so, should we change the Neutral Special to Grapple Wire? It would be epic if Kirby used the Bionic Arm eh?


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on September 02, 2011, 05:39:11 PM
Yes, it is true that it can be beneficial for both players. Heck, it'd be so epic for team battles.
Ok, I agree with this. Unless you want my other idea for throwing the rock?

BUT. What special would that be (the platform)? Down or Neutral?

And I think the "Combo Breaker" down special idea in the first post should be his down air. It'll allow us to put in more unique things for specials.

@SJS: That would be nice!

EDIT:
So, If SJS is doing the CSP, which pose do you guys want? or do you want to deal with that later?

EDIT 2: And how's that vertex doing Star? I haven't heard or seen anything yet. Not that it really matters. As long as it gets done.

Another thing. I was thinking... Do you want to also make a Kirby hat for this? If so, should we change the Neutral Special to Grapple Wire? It would be epic if Kirby used the Bionic Arm eh?

I thought it wasn't possible to PSA Kirby's Kirby Hat Attacks...


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on September 02, 2011, 05:42:47 PM
who said that?

If that's true, then I did not know.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Ӄit ßallarɖ on September 02, 2011, 07:00:00 PM
If it wasn't, there'd be a hack for nearly each char that's been made XD I'm sure it's possible, just prob not with our tools now.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on September 02, 2011, 09:12:21 PM
If it wasn't, there'd be a hack for nearly each char that's been made XD I'm sure it's possible, just prob not with our tools now.
i remember reading that up somewhere... i know the hats are possible, just not the psa part


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Ricky (Br3) ♥ on September 03, 2011, 05:47:29 PM
I'd want hat PSAs... r)

Specially for the coolest looking hats >D


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Bush on September 04, 2011, 10:10:26 AM
Is Nathan still being worked on? I just want to know whether its worth going through the trouble of getting a voice actor for Nathan.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on September 04, 2011, 10:30:44 AM
Is Nathan still being worked on? I just want to know whether its worth going through the trouble of getting a voice actor for Nathan.

I think so. I'm pretty sure Waffles is in the vertexing stage right now.

We're just kind of throwing ideas around before we actually do any work.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Bush on September 04, 2011, 10:59:42 AM
I think so. I'm pretty sure Waffles is in the vertexing stage right now. We're just kind of throwing ideas around before we actually do any work.

Cool. Just wanted to know because I actually got some responses for voices for Nathan. :3 I'm also gathering sound effects used in the game, but i wont be able to use them until the PSA is done.

Goodluck you guys.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on September 04, 2011, 11:13:41 AM
Cool. Just wanted to know because I actually got some responses for voices for Nathan. :3 I'm also gathering sound effects used in the game, but i wont be able to use them until the PSA is done.

Goodluck you guys.

Thanks! A sound pack would actually be great.

We'll see what happens once the vertex gets done.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on September 04, 2011, 11:17:57 AM
Hey gamma, could you look at our ideas at the top of this page (i think...) and on the last page. We need to specify which special should be what. If we all agree on something, that'll be set in stone from there. Okay?


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on September 04, 2011, 11:32:57 AM
I like the boulder grabbing/throwing down thingy for his Up B. It would still be useful on the ground, and probably wouldn't be to hard to implement. I don't think the boulder platform thing is possible at all. @_@

I also think the Combo Breaker thing should be his Down Special, since we're using the boulder idea for his Up B instead. That way, we can still use the ground-pound idea for his Down B Air.

Still need ideas for his Neutral B and Side B.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: 8o8 Dark on September 04, 2011, 12:22:29 PM
Quote
"Side B - Bionic Arm: Extends his Bionic Arm about 1/2 of Battlefield. Deals 4%, and if it connects, it stuns (ZSS Bullet kind), and then charges to the enemy really quickly and then kicks the opponent for 5% (Ike's Attack12), and punches them for 8% (Ike's Attack11), but the lag between the kick and punch, is enough for the opponent to escape (so it's balanced, if the lag isnt sufficient enough for him/her to escape... then that's instantly a spammable move, with high range, and 17% every time.)"
"Stun the opponent, then move Spencer forward quickly. It should work." -Gamma Ridley
If you check the first page, StarWaffle updated the moveset ideas.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on September 04, 2011, 01:29:32 PM
I like the boulder grabbing/throwing down thingy for his Up B. It would still be useful on the ground, and probably wouldn't be to hard to implement. I don't think the boulder platform thing is possible at all. @_@

I also think the Combo Breaker thing should be his Down Special, since we're using the boulder idea for his Up B instead. That way, we can still use the ground-pound idea for his Down B Air.

Still need ideas for his Neutral B and Side B.
I believe that the side be was going to be his Grapple Wire.
How'd you forget that? XD


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Gamma Ridley on September 04, 2011, 01:30:19 PM
I believe that the side be was going to be his Grapple Wire.
How'd you forget that? XD

Well soooooooooooooooorry.

XD

I dunno, I haven't been "all there" lately.

K, so we still need Neutral B ideas.

.... I think.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. Special attack brainstorming
Post by: Royal_Blade on September 04, 2011, 04:06:43 PM
I'm not blaming you.

Edit: Wrong Topic...


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. UP and Neutral B
Post by: StarWaffle on September 04, 2011, 04:13:14 PM
okay all the options are on the first page, second post.

I like option 2 for up special  and option 6 for neutral. what about you guys?


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. UP and Neutral B
Post by: Gamma Ridley on September 04, 2011, 04:18:36 PM
I like Option 4 for his Neutral Special.

I don't really like any of the ideas for his Up B though.... :[


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. UP and Neutral B
Post by: StarWaffle on September 04, 2011, 04:20:24 PM
yeah, we didn't get too many ideas for up special most of it was just, lets make him have uh thether!

edit: man aftter re-reading that, i love option 4!  we should do it =|


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. UP and Neutral B
Post by: 8o8 Dark on September 04, 2011, 04:27:20 PM
Quote
1- "0:39 - 0:42   Neutral special?

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C9_we55J_4[/url]" -StarWaffle

Up Special (Spin Attack) xD

EDIT: I like Option 1 for the Up Special, or 3, but maybe without the explosion at the end, depending on how much height he gains. For teh Neutral Special, 4 or 5.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. UP and Neutral B
Post by: StarWaffle on September 04, 2011, 04:29:35 PM
Up Special (Spin Attack) xD

it'll be just like links  :af2:


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. UP and Neutral B
Post by: 8o8 Dark on September 04, 2011, 04:33:16 PM
it'll be just like links  :af2:
Yay! But what about the height he gains... hmm...  :happy: ->  :af2: ->  :af: ->  :notimp: -> :srs:


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. UP and Neutral B
Post by: Royal_Blade on September 04, 2011, 04:56:36 PM
I saw this move and thought that It could be an up special:
[url]http://youtu.be/LRr9rEL0JlQ?t=19m40s[/url] ([url]http://youtu.be/LRr9rEL0JlQ?t=19m40s[/url])
The person uses it often around this time in the video.

I have two methods that we can use to incorporate this.

1) Having him lift up a boulder out of nowhere (like charizard's rock smash) and jumps up and slams the rock at like 45 degree angle downwards (we could also have a 30 degree throw by tilting forward on the control stick). The boulder would deal about 10% damage but stuns like Falco's blaster.

I think you forgot this idea for up special. Unless that goes under the second option?

And I'm fine with option 4 with Neutral Specials.


Title: Re: ...:::Group Project: Nathan Spencer::.. UP and Neutral B
Post by: 8o8 Dark on September 06, 2011, 01:08:58 PM
So... Starwaffle, what's the Neutral Special and Up Special going to be? And furthermore... what are we going to work on next (Aerials, Combo, Smashes, etc.)