Kitty Corp Meow Mix Forums

So, if you came here, you’re probably trying to fix up a model that has a face that’s split up into parts. Like the Tales series models. Or Toon Link.

Odds are, your model most likely looks like this:

(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab8/Spex130/BeginResult.png)

We don’t want that.

Before we start, I need to tell you that this guide is pretty rushed. You’ll need to know how to get around 3DS Max at least a little. Just saying.




So, first, get your model into 3DS Max some way or another. Then go to the models that are at odds with each other and select them. All of them. Eyes, mouth, face, anything that’s clashing. Then right-click and select “Hide Unselected” That will hide (but not delete) anything you don’t need.

Once you’ve selected them all, go to the right pull-down bar and select Edit Normals (Or if you’re a shortcut freak like me, just press “E” 4 times after selecting the pulldown bar.)

(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab8/Spex130/EditNormalsButton.png)

Once you’ve selected that, your model should look covered in red pins. That’s because you’ve got all of the normals selected. Click on the Edit Normals bar on the right side a few times until they all change to something blue-green-not red-ish. You also might want to change the "Display length" to something shorter so the normals are easier to choose.

(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab8/Spex130/RedPins.png)

After that, you’ll need to go to the spots that clash. Odds are, the modeler ripped the faces right out from that spot, so all the vertices will be in the same spot, and therefore the normals will be too.

In the spots where the normals clash, there will be a lot of lines sticking out all leading to one point. Select all the ones that lead to that one point. Then go to your right panel, and under the average option you should select “Selected”

This will make all of those lines look like one line, which means they all take light from the same direction and will transition smoothly. REMEMBER: Only select the normals that lead to the same vertex. Trying to do this en masse on multiple normals with multiple vertices will cause your model to behave like reflective tape. Only choose groups or normals that lead to one vertex before you average.

(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab8/Spex130/Averager.png)


Now, here’s the part where your judgment comes in. Do that for every spot where the Normals are strange. After that, you should get a result close to this.

(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab8/Spex130/EndResult.png)


I know this was rushed, but that’s pretty much it.

Ask questions, leave feedback, please!

wh00t     another great guide Spex. i understand every bit of it, it looks good as is.

i wanna give it a go right now.

wh00t     got the face fixed. it was easier than i thought

you might wanna mention lowering the Display Length. for awhile i kept tryin to click the right lines without it clicking a unseen line.

I told you it was easy.

Also, is that how you make it click easier? Thanks, I'll add it in soon.

So does this come before or after rigging? Or does it matter?

It shouldn't.

Just place it under the skin modifier before export.

Ah alrighty, just wondering.

Thanks for the tutorial, I'll be saving this one just in case I ever need it.

Hm.... is there anyway to use the normal's settings from another object?
I can't seem to get this right.

(This is the re-import file)
http://www.mediafire.com/?i119s1t1ei4uwk3 (http://www.mediafire.com/?i119s1t1ei4uwk3)

I'll have to check that file out later. Did you select the head AND the mouth when you averaged? Because that looks like reflective tape, and reflective tape only happens when all the normals on a model are facing the same direction.

Averaging makes all the differing normals "average" out to the same spot. If they aren't averaging to anything, it looks really bad.

Tried that, makes the section look off from the rest of the model.
I don't think I'm getting this at all.

Hmm. I don't suppose you have a file from before you started this in your Autoback folder, do you?

If you don't you'll probably have to rotate the Normals manually.

Great tutorial Spex, I was wondering if there was a quick simple way to do this.

It was like that since I exported it straight from Brawlbox Spex.
Or any TL model for that matter.
So rotating  the Normals is to be taken literally?

I suppose it would be, yes. You'd take the groups and rotate them manually until they look nice. That's going to more a paint than it's worth though.


Or since it's an official TL model, you can try to reimport the head polygon. That could work too, if you haven't made any changes to it.

The next time around, though MAKE SURE to choose the Head polygon AND the mouth polygon when you average. It'll work, I guarantee it.

After all, I just literally opened up 3DS Max not 5 minutes ago, imported TL's DAE, and fixed the mouth normals using the same technique.

Then I'm definitely doing something wrong.
I'm still getting "reflector tape".

1. I re-imported the Head Piece
2. I added Edit Normals Modifiers to both
3. Then I averaged and still, the same thing

Hm. That's most certainly very odd. I suppose the only way to figure it out is to look in greater detail...

What were your exact methods of doing this? There were probably sub-steps you did in between those numbers up there in the quote. Could you tell me them?

Alright, details then.

1. Everything was already there.
2. I got rid of the old Head and  mouth pieces.
3. Re-imported the defaults via merge.
4. Selected those two objects, then hid unselected.
5. Added the edit normals modifier to both
6. Selected the normals going in the "same direction"
    (The outer ring of the mouth polygon where it's supposed to blend in)
7. Averaged the two polygon's normals.

Ahaa~!

I don't think I was clear enough on this part. Sorry about that.

Don't select the entire ring all at once. When something is averaged, it all points in the same direction. Such a large amount of normals being averaged will take away their individuality, causing the "reflective tape" effect.

Do it like this. First click both the models and add an "Editable Mesh/Editable Poly" modifier, then go to the vertex button. Look at the vertices for both the face and the mouth at the same time. For TLink, if you hold and drag a selection box over one of the vertices in the boundary, you'll select not one but two vertices.

What this means is that the modeler shaped TLink's head as one object, and then used "Detach" or something like that to rip out the faces. This means that the vertices there match up perfectly but aren't connected, therefore proving the need for two in one spot so you can't see any holes. Unfortunately, the normal for the mouth vertex goes in a different direction than the normal for the head vertex in the same spot, which is why they don't match up and look so bad.

What you're doing with "average," is selecting all the normals which connect to the "spot" where those two boundary vertices meet. When you average them, the conflicting normals between the two vertices in that "spot" for those two vertices get forced to all point at the same angle. And since all the vertices' normals are at the same angle (essentially the same normal), there's no distinction between the polygons even though they aren't connected.)



(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab8/Spex130/Averager.png)

You see how at the top I've got only two normals selected?

I press the average button and then they become "one." That's what we're doing.

When you find a "pair of vertices" you need to average the normals of only those vertices.

After that, you need to average the normals for every pair of vertices individually until you're done.

I hope that's more clear for you. I'll edit the OP Tutorial.

You're right, it worked!
I guess something like that should have raised the red flags to my common sense earlier but eh..
Anyways thanks a bunch Spex, now I know what do next time this happens.
Time to get cracking on that TLink.

Nice tutorial, I didn't see it.

I do something similar, only that I hit 'copy value' and 'paste value'. That way I can choose which of the selected normals I keep for both vertices.

Does the average make a 'mean' of the selected directions or something? Cause I've never tried it... O.o

That's really cool. I didn't know there was a copy value.

Anyways, I think that's how it works. I guess averaging pulls all the normals to the "average" location between all of them. Your way sounds good too, though.

Heh, I'm sure the 'average' thing is faster and better, cause the 'copy value' just copies one of them, and you have to select by normal in order to do it, while the 'average' will let you select by vertex, and takes the average value. I didn't know the meaning of 'average' as 'mean', I knew is as 'regular'. This is what happens when you don't speak english as the mother language, and do not know the meaning of some specific words ^^U xD

You know, if there was a way to select all the vertices in the same location, then I could write a Maxscript to auto-average all of the normals for me.

But if I'm going to be making a program to make it easier, then it should be writing Brawlbox to export the normals in the .DAE export. They hold normals don't they?

You should study how MAX uses soft selection. There might be a technique similar to that.

I just looked at soft selection: It only works with one model at a time. And Edit Normals doesn't allow for soft selection. It's possible to write a Maxscript to do it and imitate the soft selection, but I don't think it's worth the effort.

This type of stuff is kinda tedious, but it's nothing that can't be done manually. Don't stretch yourself.

Yeah, I probably won't. Although I have been editing my handy maxscript to take care of a lot of tedious work for me, such as selecting all the bones or polygons and exporting animations. Not sure what else I should automate.