Kitty Corp Meow Mix Forums

Extra space now that the thread has been hijacked by Nano.
I'll just use this spot for hype ass pics.

(http://projectmgame.com/content/images/news/ce-01.png)

One word, three letters:

Meh.

Because Ignorance is Bliss

Or it could just not be his cup of tea...

Anyway, looking forward to messing around in it for a bit. Let's go Ike.

In the case of LC, it's a mixture of both and trust me when I calling it "not his cup of tea" would be an understatement XD

I'll take your word for it. I'm not familiar with him.

Quick Draw -> JC -> wave-dash -> jab string

Honestly. There are some things, from what I have read so far on the website. That kinda just make me go "bleh" and some that make me go "yeh".

I could understand needing the Top-Tier's from Melee to be just as they were in Melee to balance the cast...IF it weren't for the fact that doing so is basically like saying "These characters were perfect as they were in Melee."

When I think of a sequel, I think : Everyone gets their buffs, everyone gets their nerfs. Some new things are added that are quite nice. Balancing is made. All is good.

To me, exempting the Top Tier characters from Melee from this line of thinking is asinine if you are going for what you envision for a true sequel (by paraphrasing of SDo0M's own words).

Not just the other characters, but everyone, should be balanced. Not just balanced to match the Top-Tiers.

Once everyone has gotten their buffs and nerfs, the Top-Tiers should be subjected to minor gameplay and mechanics changes in order to make them different from their Melee counterparts, instead of making them vanilla copies of their Melee incarnations. If we're going for something of a sequel in terms of gameplay, why would I want more of the same of what I had in the last game, on any character?

That's my two cents, but I get the feeling SDo0M will rebuke and talk down to me since my thinking isn't entirely in-line with Project M's current "grand design". >_>

*Leaves the thread promptly.

I'm looking forward to it, since I've been wanting a faster-paced Brawl since day one.

Though I am disappointed that Ganon and Falco went straight back to being straight-up clones. I can understand the reasoning behind it, but still. /:

Too bad I won't be able to try it for a while since I only have Dolphin. :c

I think it would be cooler if it had new portraits.

Just kidding.

Mostly.

I don't really think anything of it since I haven't tried it. If anything, I think it'll be an interesting way to change up Brawl a bit.

In defense of Project M and its team, I like the fact that these guys came together to craft something for the Melee fanatics, the transition from Melee to Brawl was a pretty harsh one, character balancing-wise so I get that. On the other hand, I kinda agree with Velen...I kinda envisioned it to be like a Melee atmosphere but with character balancing all across the board, not just remaking certain characters into their former selves while everyone else tweaked to match up with them.

One thing that resonated strongly with me was how some characters got buffs and moveset tweaks that were very much needed without the atmosphere of Melee...seeing Wario take on his Wario Land style and Ike gaining much needed tweaks like the many uses of Quickdraw, Ness getting his PK Thunders a much needed boost...stuff like that, is awesome and I actually wish that I could use these fixes in all the different types of Brawl we have released without the physics being tied specifically to Melee.

I don't wanna sound like im complaining because an individual can take that and feel unappreciated and step away from releasing hacks publicly, I can't do what these guys did and its dope that they are attempting to make something new or different. But anyways, that just my two cents.

In my experience P:M discussions don't end well, but let's see how this one goes.

I for one think that Project M is brilliant.  A bunch of guys got together and instead of complaining about a game not being how they wanted it to be, decided to remake the game to fit their tastes.  Gotta give 'em credit for their determination at least.  Besides, they're doing some pretty cool stuff with it.  Remaking the Brawl characters to fit within the Melee engine must be hell to do and the fact that they aren't just tweaking attack/frame data but they're actually reworking how the characters function just blows my mind.  If they manage to balance it all out it'll be a work of art.  Not to mention how much they're doing with the base mechanics.  Bringing back wavedashing is great and all, but adding stuff like aerial glidetossing for more options during battle is even better.

I imagine I'll spend much of my "Smash time" playing around with Project M once it's 100% done.

Im so glad i figured out how to use P:M on my dolphin. Just in case im too lazy to put it on my SD card. Once its out, I can make a vid if you pplz want me to

No, because "[censored] tourney[censored]s" and [censored] "Melee 2.0". :V They wanted an expansion pack, not a [censored] sequel. Well now they made their own, I hope they're happy.

I honestly cannot complain about P:M till I actually play it.
I'm more then hyped due to some of the changes I've seen.
Pit with an Air dash, Lucario with Ryu like attacks and combo ability, wario with an actually viable moveset, these types of things are just awesome to me.
for those wondering, the demo will have more then half the cast, so get hyped.

I heard a rumor saying it will eb out when it gets to dev version r7000. righ tnow its at r6994

Well, I have my likes and dislikes of it like many others.

My likes are how it's fast. I never cared for Brawl's speed, which is one reason I play Brawl+, I prefer playing SSB's in a faster, more aggressive environment, regardless of the level of "competitive depth"(especially because of how Berserker-esque I play.) I also love the return of L canceling. And the new ledge occupancy thing for tethers is genius! vBrawl should've had that ;__;

My dislikes are how the majority of the characters are handled, and I'll go into some depth with this.

There were a lot of character changes that I found interesting and liked a lot. Lucas is one that I think is fantastic, especially given how it changes him from Ness more by giving him a new, more useful Up B, among other things.
I like Ike's new tweaks as well, it gives him some improvements without completely changing a lot about him.

Then we have changes like Lucario. Lucario is one of my mains, and I personally didn't like the giant overhaul it got. I do like how the SideB has use in the air now(again, this should've had aerial use by default. C'mon, Sakurai : /), but everything else that was changed just seems too different now. It doesn't seem like the Lucario I've come to enjoy playing as. It's something that I feel a lot of PSA's succumb to - a moveset that just isn't very...Smash Brothers-y. But it is still an interesting idea nonetheless.

I find Wario is another example, but to a lesser degree. His changes make him reminiscent of his earlier days starting on the Gameboy with Wario Land, but I'm not too excited about the radical level of change. I'm not really one to believe in remaking a character from scratch for the sake of being competitive(although, de-cloning is still an idea I find appealing), but then again, I'm either the world's most competitive casual or the world's most casual competive player.

My idea would be to instead focus on improving what they have, as opposed to changing a bunch of things, or to keep the changes to a minimum, a la Lucas.

And I know this will seem like a minor nitpick, but given how I'm very anal retentive about all things about Marth/Roy(this may have been changed in the second demo. Haven't nabbed it yet) But some things with Marth that were not really changed from an aesthetic point of view.
Many of his animations were different in Melee, but I'll just bring up two attacks that looked different, with one of them moving in the opposite direction.

His 3rd down side B hit was not changed back to Melee's, nor was his fourth up hit. The 3rd down hit is less of a problem, but the 4th up it travels the other way now. This was not changed in this first demo, and it seems contradictory to say all his Melee hitboxes were restored when that attack goes in the opposite direction now.

Pic time!(Go! Go! 10 second doodle powers!)

And I find Velen brings up a good point about balance. Instead of bringing everyone up to the Fox/Falco/Marth/Shiek/etc range, I think it'd be good to have things a little lower. I recall reading that Pokemon Trainer(With all 3 mons together -  not the "wild" ones) was cut for this reason - He just couldn't fit in the competitive level the others were able to.
I, personally, found Marth was pretty overpowered in Melee. Same goes for Falco. It felt like when I played as or against these two, it didn't require the effort/skill to be as good with them as it did when using a character cursed to be in the lower tiers, like Roy or either Link, or God forbid Bowser...And even then, with a low tier character, sometimes all the skill in the world will not save you... ;__;

I can understand the goal of P:M, but I think making everyone better/viable would be easier if the 'bar' weren't set as high as it is.

But, either way, I still did enjoy the first demo a lot, and I'm looking forward to what is to come. I hope to get my hands on that demo soon  :happy:

>.>
<.<
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If you don't give a [censored] about this, why do you even post about it?

I'd have rather had the demo be released before making a thread like this, but oh well.. lol

Agreed.  A lot of the ranting going on is based on a lack of information or outdated information mainly because of the fact that:

1) Demo's not out yet (though that's our fault, we've been frantically working to get stuff ready but we've been encountering a couple of problems)
2) Very few here watch our streams. 
3) Heck you may not have even had a proper look at the official P:M site, since that at least has up to date character info now on all the demo 2 roster.

Let's at least wait til demo 2 before making big rants.

-sorry, but you're simply using those things you stated as an excuse to brush off any good points anyone here may have had at all.

I've already read all the pages on the Project:M site. One doesn't need to actually try the demo in order to say what one feels at first glance, and not having tried the demo does not invalidate how someone feels about it at first glace either, no matter how much you may think otherwise.

I said what I said based on your words, what I read, what I saw in the demonstration videos on the general changes page, and my own thoughts and feelings of how balancing should be handled.

So far I see no effort to make any changes to the top-tiers after everyone has been given their changes, and I already stated how I feel about giving the rest of the cast something new while the Top Tiers stay their same old stale selves from Melee with no real changes beyond aesthetics. They bring nothing new to the table now. Everyone else but them has something new now.

So you haven't actually watched any up to date gameplay of it?  What you've basically done is the equivalent of forming an opinion of a game just by reading previews and watching old trailers.  If you're going to construct some kind of "first glance opinion" of something, at least have the decency not to dwell on one thing like a hawk.  There are 29 characters, yet you insist on dwelling on the three that haven't received changes. 


Because they don't NEED anything new.  Whether you like it or not, the primary target for P:M is Melee enthusiasts who do a lot of competitive play.  Melee's competitive scene is still pretty prominent and has been for almost a decade now.  Those players are going to want to see those top characters able to pull off all the things they could before.  They'll want to see Fox and Falco with all their old tricks.  If they felt stale, then this competitive scene would be dead but it isn't.

HOWEVER

Unlike in Melee, every character is good enough to hold their own against these guys so it's down to the players to find ways to take these former top tiers and adapt to these new threats.  The characters have enough depth and the fast paced and fluid environment of the game allows this kind of leeway.


Yeah, comments like this make it hard to take you at all seriously sometimes.  At least Velen and Thany and co had the decency to come up with decent enough reasoning as to what they weren't looking forward to as regards to the project. 

Hey SDoOM, did you guys make any extra changes to the characters that you all haven't listed on the P:M website? Also did you or any of the mods have the chance to check my post for Wario? As I stated in it, its just an idea..I don't know anything about PSA'ing but the concept seems simple, its just a animation change with accompanying sfx and such but the original move properties and such remain the same, I was just looking on some feedback to see if it would be a good idea or not

I honestly don't care, I've never liked the competitive scene. You can call me close-minded, but I don't create a project around that piece of info.

Well, LC, it doesn't means only competitive players would enjoy it either, y'know? ._. You can play it and see if you find it fun to do so.

In all honesty, I at one point wanted Melee. That was BEFORE I found out about the competitive players. After like two years of getting Brawl, I hacked the Wii, got Melee through "fun" means, and realized it's floatier than Brawl and not as fast as advertised. In the end, it's not really that great a game, and whatever fun it had was sucked out simply because you have to play a set way in only four or five stages, not counting counterpicks (if any), the mere mention of items makes tourneyfans rage, and apparently playing with a character I like means I'm a scrub, instead I should play with what others think I should play as, which is why I LOVED hearing about that story that MLG (I think it was that anyway) only allowed tournies with items. There is something being done wrong when even other tourneyfans reject a game for it's pro community.

Bottom line, I highly doubt a mod that would turn Brawl into Melee 2.0 would make me want to play it again, simply because anything of interest to you doesn't interest me. At all. Pretty sure I'm entitled to my opinion, and I did this post with the least amount of random [censored]ing possible. I can't get any less offensive than this.

And before anyone asks, I'd rather play with the PS2 controller because it's more comfortable and doesn't have a mutant button layout. Not hating, just saying.

Just curious: What're the deadly freezes that are keeping the release about? If its the training thing I doubt there's a way around it...

Aaanyway, I'm sad that this re-clones (somewhat) Ganon and Falco, I'd have been more hyped for this if they were changed further from brawl like Charizard or Lucas (Although I'm gonna point out if the changed made to him were to improve, then you guys should look at B+ Lucas, just messing with some stats and he became waay better than vBrawl in which he was already epic with the right skill) That being said, the character I'm most hyped about is Lucario, it is a shame to lose so much but from what I've seen what he's gaining will make him deadly (+I may enjoy checking out his coding <O< >O>)

@LC The floatiness is good, I have no idea why in P:M they seem to want it reduced :L characters are floaty because that makes awesome aerial combat which, due to people being flung around everywhere, happens a lot. Just look at vBrawl squirtle, if you think he sucks its just because you don't know how to play his air game, his only weakness was not having a real Down special because he had to share with 2 other guys inside some other guy's pocket :|

Here's what I think all smash brothers games should be like: FAST horizontal, SLOOoooooooooow Vertical... and what makes vbrawl super slow compared to melee is the huge meaningless hit lag, land lag, dodge lag, attack lag, lag lag lag all over in every move for no reason at all instead of just ending it quickly allowing the next attack XP In other words it was slow horizontal D:

i can't wait i really am anticipating snake,wario,lucario,charizard,zelda,lucus,sonic, and pit.

According to the IRC it was Peach's Neutral B.

Oh, so I can't have an actual "valid" opinion until Demo 2 comes out and I have played it and read everything on the website when said demo is released? Is that what you're saying? That's what I'm getting from this.

So any argument or comment or opinion anyone has is null and void until the time specified by the Project M team is what you're saying?

Such arrogance.

Not that you can't have it, just that... At least I find it better to wait for the finished Beta so we can all test and critique. I have mixed feelings about P:M, but I'm holding my horses 'til I try it. :P

I love how my second point of watching the streams soared over your head completely.  If you watched the streams, or even watched the up to date footage on the ProjectMelee youtube channel and a couple of other channels then of course you'd have a more validated opinion because you're basing accusations on up to date information. 

You're creating accusations out of very little basis.  As I said before, it's like forming an opinion of a game just by reading previews and watching old trailers instead of taking a little time to look at more up to date gameplay footage that actually shows off the game in motion. 

I knew I'd find a thread like this here.

LC - Chill man, I'm starting to think you don't think any game should be competitive, tournaments make they're own rules all the time. Nothing is stopping anyone from saying items are allowed in they're tournament. But even with items i still think you would find some way to bash it.

Also you have to "Play" Melee, not make your own it to judge how the game engine of melee work. Melee has a completely different feel to the game to brawl, captain falcon alone is enough to tell the difference.

And they have a controller just for you, it called the "Classic Controller Pro"

Anyway, I was more hype about it about a year ago when i still had friends willing to play smash brothers, but now everyone is trying to do they're own thing which is a shame.

I'm still going to play, but will most likely be alone, or over wifail.

I guess people didn't really understand the project goal, but it's not really they're fault i mean even play-testers don't understand the goal sometimes. Project:M isn't about RE-balance, it's about pulling those low win characters into high win standards.

Funny thing is while they get a few complaints about RE-cloned characters from brawl players, they get TONS more complaints from Melee players about how some characters seem even better then Melee's high win characters.

Of course there are some character design issues that i disagree with, but I going to wait until after Demo2 comes out so i can test they're "Vision" before i make any complaints.

I say everyone who enjoys playing smash should give it a fair chance, though anyone who makes PSA for fun should be more then interested in Project M then just playing it, i'm sure it's has tons of code that PSA makers are going to want to explore.

And I might do a mod version of Project M for myself cause they're are a few "OverDrive" mechanics that i enjoy.

Nah, tournies with items is something I'd actually bother to watch since it's not uselessly removing a game mechanic for the sake of it. The original game has items, the original stages have hazards. To me a true pro is being able to play with those things on the battlefield and not being a whiny mess when he gets hit. And what do you mean by "Play" Melee? I've already said I played it. It's not all it's cracked up to be. It's uninteresting. This expansion pack won't make me change my ideas.

Oh, cool. Do you know of a place where they give them for free, or a place with weak enough security so I can steal one? I'll still use my PS2 controller simply because I feel it's not a mess made by a drunkard.

P:M is a good experience. I never mastered Melee's combo/fast-paced action stuff because i was young and didn't know how to play it well (the only thing i know how to do is wave-dashing). I wasn't into fast-paced fighting games at the time until Marvel vs Capcom 2 was out.

Now that im into competitive fast-paced fighting games, i find it more fun. I don't go to tourneys but i have some friends who are competitive.

Im not saying you HAVE to play fast-paced fighting games. As long as the game is fun, I dont care if its not fast-paced like brawl. I wont say which one is better because i just like them equally in everyway.

Cant wait to try out the demo.
(Btw, where do you place custom songs in Project M's folders?)

there is also one option that is always avalible if u want to complain....dont play it its as simple as that

That limits it down to only those crazy Asian people.  Those guys that do those crazy item combo vids

As soon as I figure out how, I'll make an account on nicovideo just to witness those.

Because they're infinitely more entertaining to watch, no offense. :V

None taken.  Those things are freakin awesome XD

Has there even been Japanese tournaments?

Not sure if they play with american restrictions, but, there's that whole item combo thing, so I guess they don't.

Fun fact: Japan turned off items before we did, in Melee and Brawl. There are players that play both with and without items you know, though they may be hard to find.

Im one of those people. I don't mind with items or without items.

Demo 2 is finally out: http://projectm.dantarion.com/downloads/ (http://projectm.dantarion.com/downloads/)

[censored] yes, just started downloading it. cannot wait to try it >.>

well, i lost my SD card, so i cant try it on my wii. i ahd to play it on dolphin, which is slow

The pro would be good if it had rumbling... Due to always playing with rumble on you get used to it so once its gone the game seems off forever :L The classic controller pro is a fail for brawl because of that, GC controller is the best (too bad mine is so old and went overseas so many times before its actually kinda rotten x.x)

Aaanyway, Yay its out :D downloading it now. Btw: will there ever be a .txt released of the GCT with all the codes named so then we can choose codes with ease and such? y'kno, mix and match what you want? XD I've done that with my B+ and I really wanna put some P:M into my main codeset after trying it and *probably* enjoying the extra mechanics.

Well, Dolphin only lets me play it for about two minutes, but from what I can tell this is pretty well made.

Downloaded it to get Wario's new moveset.

Then I got rid of it.

Whats the difference between..
Riivolution Online Option ZIP (WiFi-Safe)
Riivolution Offline Option ZIP (WiFi-Safe)

And is...
Riivolution Option ZIP (Full Set) WiFi Safe?

First is for replays and Wifi (I think), second is for just Wifi.  Though don't hold me to that.

And no the full set isn't Wifi safe, hence why there's Wifi safe versions :V

I'm having so much fun with this >.>
I'm really digging the new side smash for snake, it's freaking dank and super useful. Lucario's shroyuken Up smash is also quite useful. I really also like that toon link has a jump attack for his side smash (also dat milk drink taunt >.>)
I found ike to be pretty great as well, definently dig that second charge on his side special.
I dunno if it was intentional, but when fully charged and landing the slash, it reminds me of sol badguy's instant kill from guilty gear on the PS1.

Overall liking it so far, and can say all my mains play exactly as I thought they would.

K thank you ;D

If anyone wants to play on wifi with Project: M, pm me :P

My first impressions.. aren't so positive.. I'll make a pro and con list later (after trying it out a bit more) and post it here. Its pretty good though, although I did just use codes and such to make my brawl the way I'd enjoy it which is why I prefer it... But yeah, I won't be comparing, just making a list 100% about P:M. cya later :L

No Side-B Death Sheik Ai (http://www.mediafire.com/?cqmp9yll9b9bcny)


I'm Working on some Ai stuff, here's the first.

deleted O.O :-/????

Was working on a better version, the last still side-b death if above the ledge.

No Side-B Death Sheik Ai (http://www.mediafire.com/?cchd9361529qeoj)

Here we go the prefect version, this one won't Side-B death for sure.

I've finally been able to play P:M Demo2. It's pretty nice, but I find it has a few flaws.

Ike is AWESOME. To me, he is the shining STAR of this build. I did not now he had four counter quotes either, I knew of all of them being in the game somewhere except his "YERR THRUUUE!" one :3.
ToonLink is probably my second favourite to play as. I am in love with that milk drink taunt(My second favourite Melee character was Young Link)  :happy: And that new entry of his is a comedic improvement on the original, I'm just not fond of his recovery...I was expecting it to be more like his/YoungLink's in terms of being able to get back on stage x__x

I've tried Lucario for a bit. Sadly it is just not my cup of tea, but I suppose it's difficult to please everyone ;__; . The Side B's aerial 'grab' is still fantastic idea.

My problem isn't really with gameplay functions now, but it's the animations I find could use work. Marth especially had many animations that felt like they weren't really made with a lot of time or effort.(I ask for forgiveness if any of the following sounds harsh x__x )

I'll hide these in spoilers. I've got lots to say .__.

Dancing Blade 3rd down hit

Dancing Blade 4th up hit

Dancing Blade 2nd normal hit

Smash attacks

Jabs

There are some other things, like Link's entry not ending in his Wait1 stance perfectly(the sword, anyway), or some other puzzling changes, like Luigi's "falling over" victory looping into itself instead of being his WinWait for that animation.( I personally found that WinWait was pretty funny to see him wobble and his nose periodically twitch  :af:  )

But overall, I still did enjoy this mod quite a bit and I'd encourage people to give it a try(I won't go into Ike's face issue with the D-smash, as I know that's currently impossible to remedy as far as I know), but to me it's mainly the animations(Especially with making the feet stay in place) that could use some work.

A very fun mod, even for one who sits on the competitive fence like myself. Just needs some polish to make things shine brighter :3

Kay, so this is my pros and cons list of 5 things each for first impressions:

Pros
1- well structured (so organized and pretty :D)
2- lots of useful mechanics (though I don't consider the new air dodge, which i forgot the name of it)
3- very well balanced (each character with a good side and bad)
4- interesting movesets (Lucas' is my fav :L but he was as well in vB and B+ so... idk I'm always good with him)
5- allows nice combos

Cons
1- Camping is way too easy to do
2- juggling is tough to get out of most times but not tough to perform
3- AI for CPUs can be suicidal... as can I when I make a booboo :L
4- some combos are so easy to pull off and so much more worth it than some fancy combos
5- where's mah air combat!? D: this part was intentional I know but there's so much gravity that my fav way to fight is practically gone, most of the time you're on the floor to fight :L this also makes recovery harder by itself which makes edge guarding easier than blocking wolf's super slow blaster or lucario's aura sphere or even mario and luigi's fireball XD



So anyway: Its fun... but not fun if you end up playing with a d*** that uses the cheap and easy to do strategies all the time... I prefer my B+... its faster, less clunky and way funner IMO <3

Toon Link is awesome. I actually enjoy using him now. Though his milk drink animation could use some polishing (the bottom of the bottle lip should be at his mouth, though it's at the center). Zelda is also pretty classy. Love Pit's new specials.

I don't care for new Falco. And the Zelda/Sheik portraits are really blah. Especially Zelda's.

Yea, agreed with SJS.

Pit is so much better now. Same for Toon Link, I like his forward smash and his Up-B movement on the ground.

I still use Mario though because hes a basic character and my favorite.

Lucas PKT2 Fix V.1 (http://www.mediafire.com/?yhq7eauhvq55ey3)

Here's the fix for Lucas, still has some recover issues that i have to fix with it, but this is much better then the current.

I was the one who did the milk taunt animation and trust me when I say it's very awkward to position the bottle well because of not being able to see it in Brawlbox.  I just had to essentially guess where the bottle would situate itself.

Im liking so far, quick question though....

Will you guys alter the original CPU A.I to match new moves for some of the characters that had those changes? I play alone a lot in free for alls and it would suck to have the CPU kill itself because of a new move replacing one they originally had, that they aren't programmed to use efficiently?

At some point most likely, though funnily enough it's fairly low on our priority list.  Mainly because it's quite an awkward and tedious process that not enough people know how to do.

Speaking of which, I'd really like to thank PPX for editing the AI for Sheik and Lucas so that they aren't so stupid.  It saves us a fair bit of time :)

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like Project: M boots faster than standard Brawl.

It seems this way, even when loading the match. lol

It does funnily enough.  Magus explained to me how it worked a while ago I think, but I forgot his explanation.

Ask him again, or check for logs, or something.

Though, my guess is that since you're loading [censored] from the SD card, you don't load from the disc. Thus, quicker loading times. Or something.

It is indeed this actually.  It's a combination of loading stuff from the SD card and trimming down a lot of fat files (the common files were trimmed down a LOT).

The common files are full of crap that don't need to be there but are, and is responsible for Brawl's loading times being rather long.

The motion files for the transforming characters do not need to be in the common files AT ALL.
Just put them in their respective pf character folders, remove them from the common.pacs a certain way, and tada!

So that's how it was done. *goes to trim other Common5's*

Thanks, EY. I had always wondered what made P:M load so much faster.

Well, I got the new Demo finally.  Gotta say, I'm thoroughly impressed.  I haven't played too much what with all of the work I have to do, but I'm already enjoying it far more than the last demo.  I really like what they did with guys like Lucario, Wario, and Charizard.  Charizard I'm finding especially fun, which is odd considering I don't use him in any other version of Brawl.  ROB is also fun.  I love what this did with his Side-B.

So yeah, two thumbs up and all of that jazz.

Is there a way to take the character movesets and play with them in your own Brawl? Im using Beyond You's Riivolution and I tried using movesets from some of the Project M characters but the physics would seem a little off and their moves wouldn't work well, some would enter T-stance or the PSA animation would play the original move animation with effects of the PSA, like for example Bowser's Koopa Klaw would still play the Flying Slam animation but he wouldn't jump in the air with them....anyone know anything?

Be sure to check the other common files too.

Anyway, that's a negative at this time Double D.

Damn.

Y'know, with that in consideration, with a big enough SD card you probably could stuff ALL the brawl files (trimmed the un-necessaries obviously) in that, just for a faster loading game.

Would kinda defeat the purpose of the disc, but still. :V

Project M [TAS] - Wolf Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI97S0XeU5A#ws)

First P:M TAS =O

Lol, Bowser is broken.

I'm also not too happy with some of the changes made to Lucas, since Demo V1. For example, why does Offense Up remain infinitely, until you miss the target?

Care to elaborate?  Whilst Bowser is awesome, I don't see how he's broken. 

As for Lucas, first let me correct you in saying it's not until you miss, it's until you fail to get a successful hit.  There's a difference because the latter includes hitting shields (you lose the charge upon hitting the foe's shield).  And it remains because a player should be rewarded for being accurate in punishing opponents. 

Bowser has been given super armor in nearly half of his moves, and are now ridiculously strong. His forward smash, to me, seems nothing short of Brawl- quality, as it's almost exactly the same in power as his final smash form. That's just the beginning of it, I could stay here and criticize every flaw with his new abilities, but those are the ones that bother me the most.

And about Lucas... I just think that it would be more reasonable for it to be the other way around offense up, the charge should wear off AFTER the attack makes contact, and not last forever until you fail. Imagine if Samus's beam were to always be fully charged, and she could fire full charged shots at an offstage, near helpless target repeatedly?

o_O
Hell, i cant even do such a long combo like that :P

Nice job though

His moves have a mixture of heavy armour and super armour and the super armour only lasts for when he flashes red for that short period of time.  The forward smash is incredibly powerful, but also painfully slow and extremely punishable if you dodge it (don't shield it though, it eats through shields).  Whilst we do take a lot of feedback into consideration, saying something is flat out broken that's been developed for months when you've had all of about 2 days to playtest the mod seems a little unfair don't ya think?  At least give the metagame some time to develop ;)

Guess I'll say something about the mod since I'm here.

I like Ike. I just have to get used to him. I keep trying to play him similarly to Brawl but it just...doesn't work. Obviously, I'll get it with time. I like what's been done with him though. Got to say, pulling off combo's with Ike is very satisfying.

As an aside, ever consider adding blue fire/aura damage to him? Just to play off of his end game self at Radiant Dawn where get's a mystic blue flame.

We did and thought it would be a waste of time.  For a minor canon aesthetic, it would take too much effort to present well and there are more important things we need to be doing. 

Huh, I'm actually surprised it was even considered. Well, perhaps later on down the line, like when everything else is in a much more polished/final state perhaps you guys can revisit the idea.

Hey I had some more animation ideas for Wario...

Walk animation 0:03, 2:30 mark can be a new dash animation, 3:00, Down B special replacement. Works the exact same as Waft. Fiery explosion on the ground (Think Roy fully powered Flare Blade gfx) following by devastating jumping headbutt

Wario Land Shake It! - W1-2: Whoopsy Desert (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6CSfYZlaOM#)

http://wii.ign.com/articles/122/1223403p1.html (http://wii.ign.com/articles/122/1223403p1.html)

Oh look a feature.
(http://i.imgur.com/Ri6Dw.png)
(http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/68348/1545245-gendo005.jpg)

I was gonna do that but i guess im too late.

And being shown on IGN of all sites is a good thing?

Remember kids. You can't spell Ignorance without IGN.

The more you know ★.

All that really matters is that Project: M is being featured on a big name gaming website. Who cares about the site's credentials? That's beside the point.

^ This. Publicity is publicity and in the case of IGN that is pretty damn big publicity. Especially consdering it's an actual full-lenght feature and not just a quick copy paste newsflash like it usually gets on other sites.

I'd also like to quote this from the comment section (which was suprisingly positive btw):

Eh, I guess it's alright. Still, I wouldn't put my trust on IGN for some articles.

But eh, good on ya for gettin' it on I guess.

Project M [TAS] - Lucario Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YINhiB9tuc#ws)

Mother of god...

I said wow at that. I had a feeling such madness could be pulled off, but I currently don't have the time to get good enough to dive into Lucario

Project M got a shoutout on IGN Project M - Super Smash Bros. Brawl Mod Commentary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNR1L0VeUl0#ws)
Guess this is gonna mean a lot more feedback.

Oh and MOAR: Project M - Hyrule Castle Gameplay - Super Smash Bros. Mod (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCu5y1gD7pc#ws)

I saw it, it's pretty intense :O

EDIT:

Project M - Final Destination Gameplay - Super Smash Bros. Brawl Mod (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5FVCyARx4Y#ws)

Project M - Final Destination Gameplay - Super Smash Bros. Brawl Mod (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5FVCyARx4Y#ws)
Oh, you edited^
Yeah, they had a bit of ignorance in their speech when talking about Project: M.
They know almost nothing about Brawl hacks, it seems. >.>

IGN, what do you expect? I liked how in the first vid they were like "OMC TRIPPING IS GONE IT'S AMAZING!", yeah and if you search "no trip code brawl hack" you'd get a 2 line code that did this too.

What I thought was dumb was when they said: "Omg, a castlevania stage, now we know they can bring stages from different platforms." Just the way they reacted is plain retarded.

Speaking of Castelvania stage...

Project M - Dracula's Castle Gameplay - Super Smash Bros. Brawl Mod (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fAcxTRR6mg#ws)

>.>
<.<
I decided to try Project M for myself and I am liking it. There is one problem though, the Fountain of Dreams .brstm is faulty. It's all loud static in my game.
Edit: The Saffron City .brstm also has the same problem.

PROJECT M IS BETTER THAN THE ORIGINAL BRAWL, me and my friend play ssb competitively that means that on ssbm you could learn and practice things such as L cancling, wave dashing, moonwalking and other crap that ssbb took away from us.

Brawl is too noob friendly because you dont have to learn these techniques because they are no longer in the game making it much easier just to swing around and try punching the whole match.

Project M is a good thing they brought back all of those techniques that us competitive gamers used. I like games ment for competitive play not just noob friendly games were anyone can pick up a controller than beat you down.

Brawls graphics are great but they should have kept the fighting like melee and project M brought that back.

So look we got, L cancling, wave dashing, mooning walking, we got all of that great stuff back from melee, the only people who will complain are the noobies who arnt good at it, we still have the good graphics from brawl now.

IMO project M should have been how ssbb should have been in the first place.
You can't just take away things from the game just because a noob gets mad that he didnt put in time to get better than a certain player.

One thing, can you put texture hacks on PROJECT M?

Yes you can. You just need to have Homebrew. It's just like any other mod. Just put the texture in the specified folder.

Have you won a SSBB tourney? If you haven't, you can't really say it's noob friendly.

Also:
So that's why I can't learn L-Cancelling in Brawl... I should've known it was because it wasn't in the game to begin with. Thanks for sharing your logical wisdom!


I can see you have a problem with the word "noob".

If this has happened to you, then you can start calling yourself a noob, sir.

Before bashing a game this badly on a board, you have to base your claims. Most of what you said (With the exception of the bottom line) have been dumb.

Um I don't know why your assuming I'm bad at the game because I'd probably beat most of you. No I don't go to tournaments because I'm a xbox player, Was Top ranked In GOW3 before I quit playing and I'm one of the best in THE WORLD at ARMORED CORE. And YES IVE BEEN TO TOURNEMENTS AND PLAYED IN THEM FOR XBOX.
Here is me in the last armored core tournament my gt IS G lL O C IK 19
ACFA LR Tournament - Round III (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kALK-_Q6Vvs#ws)
I'm a competitive gamer, I know if a game is worst then the one before it.

My friend taught me how to get good at ssb and yes he has been to tournaments around were I live for money. I havn't because I don't have a wii,

Even my friend will agree that melee takes more skill than brawl, Project M brought back the techniques that the pros use, KEN AND ISAI oh maybe you don't play competitively but some people like myself do.

I never bashed the game, I gave my opinion, if you don't like my opinion then this thread should say NO BAD OPINIONS. I'm telling facts if I spoke a lie do point that out.

AND HOW ISNT IT NOOB FRIENDLY LOLOL, you mean to tell me that brawl takes the same skill as melee, lolol I think not. Of course the pros will be better but the noobs have a better chance at beating me at brawl than they would at melee.

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Post Merge: April 23, 2012, 01:55:22 PM

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So it wont mess up my friends project M if i download a texture lets say for example a texture for captain falcon, I go into the fighter folder then find or make a captain falcon folder and put the texture in there and it should work.

You insult my skills and then you...
point out you were just "taught" how to be "good" by your friend (What's his name again? I wonder if he has ranked good) and you don't even attend tourneys because you don't own a Wii? You really are confident

Seems legit.





Oh hey, I'm a competitive gamer, too! And... You know, it doesn't takes a competitive gamer to realize which was more complex. But, regardless, I'm not arguing about this, I'm just arguing, buddy, that you claimed Brawl was a noob game and melee was the only competitive one, not this.
Even your friend agrees? Then it must be true.

Regardless, I'll point this out again, "buddy, you claimed Brawl was a noob game and melee was the only competitive one, not this."
You didn't give an opinion, you ranted at how anyone can pick a controller and beat you and for that the game wasn't competitive. Rant =/= Opinion.
So just because Melee had more glitchs for people to take advantage of makes Brawl be noob friendly? And, I'll use it again!  "buddy, you claimed Brawl was a noob game and melee was the only competitive one, not this."
This is not the thread for ask for this, use this (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=43650.msg890034#new) thread you made or make a new one on the Help section.

Right. I have a PSA I'm working on with the Project M set.

Ugh, finally, a tourney[censored] enters the thread.

I don't understand why people feel the need to boast about how good they are at video games. Do they think we care?

Because we don't.

Just enjoy the game for what it is, no need to go bashing on others because they're "noobs."

He's not even a tourney[censored] to begin with, which makes it more stupid, as he's criticizing the game so badly without even dealing against good players.

Oh? Then that's even worse.

Well, it was only a matter of time before this conversation got started here, but it might be better to end it to avoid this topic getting locked.

Post feedback on the mod, stop bashing on the game.

Quit twisting my words around like a little kid, this is why I play xbox because there are too many immature people like you on wii. I said BRAWL IS NOOB FRIENDLY, lets say those words again so you dont twist this around NOOB FRIENDLY, I didnt say brawl is A NOOB GAME, i said NOOB FRIENDLY if you play games than you would know what that means.

Just answer this question and we should be done.

WHICH WOULD BE MORE LIKELY
A noobie winning a match against someone thats good on melee
or a noobie winning a match against someone on brawl?
Brawl is more NOOB FRIENDLY,
Just like GOW3 IS MORE NOOB FRIENDLY BECAUSE OF THE SAWED OFF SHOTGUN

Ranked? I said i dont have a wii. Do you see the pro ssb players on top ranked, Most of them just play tournaments they dont stay up 24/7 playing ranked some of them actually have crap to do.

You got wii online, can you find people to play on wii, because if you wanna play ill tell my friend to come down and ill play you and put it on youtube.

Oh and dashing and crap aint glitches lololol

Its built in the game, its just dodging on the ground its not a glitch, a glitch would be like going through the ground, or shooting invisible weapons, built in mechanics arnt glicthes.

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Post Merge: April 23, 2012, 02:14:42 PM

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I WANT YOU LITTLE BOYS TO PLAY ME THEN WELL SEE WHO KNOWS WHAT THERE TALKING ABOUT, i have videos on youtube of xbox tourneys , just because i dont go to wii tournys dont mean ill wreck you at the game, lolololol PLAY ME

^ A wild fighter has appeared!

Stop acting so superior than everyone.

There is always a person who is better than you at a game.

You're getting quite off topic. If you wish to show our lovely community just how exquisitely your ravishing gaming talent translates to SSBB, then please use this board (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?board=7.0). I would very much like to partake in a test of skills with a gentleman like yourself.

Yes please back up your words elsewhere or please, zip it, lock it, and put it in your pocket, and out of this thread.

Stay tuned for the demo 2 patch this week!

This conversation is going absolutely nowhere. And it'd better stop soon.

I am pretty sure no one gives a rat's ass about the skill level of the users posting here. Nor does it have anything to do with this thread.

Project: M is a mechanics and moveset alteration to bring SSBB closer to SSBM. Trying to derail actual feedback on this project into a stupid debate about competitive/casual gameplay is not only off-topic, but also completely counter-productive and almost akin to trolling.

So, as I said, this'd better stop before I lock the thread and sanctions start flying around.

I actually have a slight question. Is the Project M community planning on giving the individual Pokemon their own Final Smashes? And I was hoping they would consider changing Jigglypuff's Final Smash. But I'm really liking Project M so far. It's very fast paced, which I like.

I don't think they're going to bother with Final Smashes, that falls into the "item" category.

Yeah, probably not. At least not in the beta stages. Or even in the near final stages of development.

But... For this to be a "complete" game, they should hex items to be weaker, and balance final smashes... Er, as much as they can anyway.

Still though, it's highly unlikely they will alter items, or even fix glaring freezes with them.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14372713&postcount=63672 (http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14372713&postcount=63672)
Please read it.

Later in development we will definitely consider altering items.  We're not as closed minded as you guys may think we are :P  As for Final Smashes I'd personally love to edit a bunch of them.  Toon Link springs to mind straight away.  Bugs me how his Final Smash is a worse version of Link's when it could be something actually really cool/funny referencing his various games.

However, this wouldn't be for a good long time.  There are still a load more important things to do.  

Lol :ninja'd:

Yes, new Final Smashes would be great, though I understand it isn't priority #1.

I'd defintitely like to see Toon Link, Wolf, and maybe Lucas get something unique.

Oh, my mistake. :P

That's really good to hear. Items need love too. Since they are kinda... Too wonky in Brawl for my liking, like Pokeballs, more then half of the time, you get Munchlax, or Goldeens... In a way, they get WAY overshadowed by Death in a Can™... I mean Assist Trophies. There should be balance between the two, less useless Pokemon, and less killer Assist Trophies. And maybe if possible, making Manaphy more common, that was a interesting idea they wasted by making far too rare.

Project M [TAS] - Ike Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKbv-Qt6csI#ws)

Quickie TAS gogogo

Glad to hear about the side-item projects. I'm looking forward to the completion of P:M to see just how it meshes with the single player segments (Darn limited SSE character selection).



The QDWJ at the end got me. Not that the rest wasn't impressive

It's the best thing to come out of brawl hacking since you can customize it with stuff from Brawl vault and pretty much play with the Melee engine.

I thought MURDER wasn't allowed on youtube?

Random announcement but P:M now has over 33,000 downloads.  Just to put that into perspective, it took P:M around 3 weeks to gain more downloads than the Shadow hack that's been around for over 2 years.  Crazy shiz.

Oh and this:  Project M [TAS] - Sonic Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj3uoZPuazk#ws)

Congrats on 33k downloads!

Also, I finally got to try P:M the other day, and I enjoyed it. I was honestly disappointed with how Falco plays, I guess I'm just not some uber tourney guy or whatever because I couldn't play him. /:

Lucario was also tough to play as, but I think it's just a tough change to get used to.

However... I absolutely, 100% LOVE how Charizard plays. I'm not sure why, but it feels so rewarding to play as him. Bowser is also much more enjoyable to play as, mostly because of the Super Armor since it actually makes it possible to win with him. :af:

The heavier characters are much more enjoyable to play as in general.

I also love how ROB plays, I love flying around the stage using his Side B. XD

Yeah, lotsa fun.

I know. I love Project M Charizard too. =D
. . .
But there are some problems though...
All of the .brstms included in the download are all loud static. I fixed this by downloading the .brstms from CustomBrawlMusic. And also when R.O.B. tries to use his Final Smash, the game freezes.

Have you defragmented your SD card?  I get that all the time and not just with the P:M codeset.  Defragment it so that it optimises your SD for the brstms.  And the R.O.B. freeze is known and being fixed I believe.

Awesome Sonic Combo video and congrats on 33k downloads guys.

Having spent more time with the demo, I will express some minor feeling of "Too bad their aiming for melee 2.0" with some of the characters. It'd be neat to see Fox or Falco with a few new moves too (I am well aware that this is not in the cards in anyway, shape, or form).

So, attempting to play through SSE:M and I'm curious if this happens to anyone else or not. For starters, anytime a non-demo2 character is playable (with the exception of Kirby and Squirtle), I play as Mario. Not a problem right?

But then my SSE CSS is limited to only the first character listed in any given team. When all characters are together, I can only choose Mario, Link, and DK. Does that happen to everyone or is it just me?

My only complaint is that I have finals this week and I serious have an addiction... people laugh... but no, seriously.. .I should be studying and I'm taking hits of texture hacks.... yeeeaaahhh feels so goood... oh god, what is going to happen to my life? I can't put down the controller... wait how the hell am I typing with my controller in my hand... when the hell did my controller get in my hand?!... HELLLLP!

idk about the first problem, but hte send one happens to me. I laoded it up and went to the end to pick pit adn luicairo adn ppls, but its just mario kirby and link

So, how does Project M compare with Minus? Because I'm already using Minus, I'm not really hyped about P:M. I've never played any fighters besides Brawl. I'm not a great Brawl player either. I don't know any advanced techniques or big combos. It would take a huge difference for me to notice any changes. Because of this, I don't know if P:M would be too noticeably different from ordinary Brawl or Brawl Minus for someone like me. What do u guys think about this?

Give it a try. Several characters have plenty of new moves for you to have fun with. For biggest impact, choose Charizard, Lucario, Toon Link, Wolf, or Sonic. They have new moves that will be apparent to you as soon as you start playing.

Even if you don't stick with it, at least you can say you gave it a try. Just back up your B- stuff on your desktop first.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna do. I don't wanna bother downloading a demo though. Any word on when the full thing comes out? It's been in development for what, 1-2 years now?

Is there any chance double jump cancelling with Ness will be made to work with X or Y? It's impossible to take full advantage of it having to tap the control stick twice.

Yeah, I wouldn't expect a final version for a while yet. To be fair though, this demo is only missing about 10 characters, so that's a good sign.


You mean...it doesn't? I'm pretty sure I only DJC with Ness using the X and Y buttons.

Except ironically enough the demo is more polished than every Brawl mod and has more characters than Melee does. 

Yeah that works, but it needs to work in combination with the control stick, for the sake of using it to attack from ground level. (Such as Up+Y+bair) For example, pressing X-X-attack or Y-Y-attack works properly, but tapping Up+X/Y+attack does nothing, he double jumps during the attack.

Ah, that's what you meant. In which case, I agree it should work. Hopefully the team can get it to at some point along the line.

Honestly, the way I got into this mod way back when was pure boredom. Formatted my extra SD and popped the sucker in. Haven't stopped since. There's still plenty of things that need to be worked on, but just the idea of a game designed with balance and competitive play in mind makes me hard.

Those two videos just make the game look like MvC :/

Whatever floats people's boats.

Someone doesn't know what a TAS is. r)

I certainly don't know whats TAS.

But im guessing its a person who does the craziest combos.

T=Tool A=Assisted S=Super-play

Normally using an emulator and save-states, and slow-motion gameplay to pull off actions that are nigh impossible to do for a human during normal game-play. In other words, you've got to be pin-point accurate to pull off any of this stuff

As if that stopped anyone in Melee. I stand by what I said.

here is an example of tas

[SSBB]Part0.84[TAS] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl6qmRK7sTU#)

You really think people can't execute that fast nowdays? I've seen regular Brawl fights with people never leaving the ground. Cancelling and hitstun will just make it more ridiculous.

I have nothing against this project. Knock yourselves out. I simply said it looks like MvC. Never said I hate MvC.

Happened across this on pixiv:

http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=26577819 (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=26577819)

And the image for those without an account:
(http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o573/ShunOne/pmpreviewjapan.jpg)

Pretty cool, me thinks.

Oh man, that Engrish is so... ugh.

I commend their efforts, but wouldn't it be better to just have it in their native japanese language?

Deergod that looks like straight Google Translate.

Reminds me of this:
(http://explosm.net/db/files/Comics/guest6/CRW_jay_a_reaction.png)

Don't you mean T=Tool A=Assisted S=Speedrun?

Not in the case of a fighting game video specifically to show-case some combo's that you literally have to have 1-frame accuracy to pull off. At least, that's what the Smash and Street Fighter videos defined the term as.

I am aware of the speed-run definition however.

There's one thing I dislike about this thread: whenever someone says something negative they get flamed :L Out of everything said it seems only the pro and con list I posted waay back didn't get bashed XD

Guys, chill.. Brawl isn't a perfect game and neither is Melee or any other game. Project M will never be perfect so ofc there'll be people that dislike it (I don't dislike it, I just don't really like it :L)

Anyway: I kinda like the odd spelling and grammar, makes it seem like what Nintendo will be doing in the future when they realize translators cost money and google does it for free... Heh, Nintendo only cares about money and not gamers pun :3

Oh, sorry... Didn't know that. o__o

Things in Project: M's codeset I hate:

1. I can't run and press A to get an item. I have to actually stop to get it now.
2. I hate that when you try to press Z-side sometimes it does work and you end up only shielding instead of dodging.
3. Lastly, I hate that you can't press anything sometimes when you get combo'd in the air. It makes it so you can't even 'comeback'. If you're up against someone who can combo well and for a while(like me) you end up getting a bunch of damage or even dying when you can't try your fullest.

#3 is my friend's problem. It'd be nice if I could remove these somehow.

That's easily removed, all you have to do is this.

Tbh that didn't really make sense in the first place.  How do you pick up an item whilst doing an attack?  Same applies to the air.  Not to mention it means that you have to be a little more careful if you want to get an item.  Items are very powerful if used correctly.


Then use L/R (assuming you're using a GC controller).  They're much more natural to use anyway since they're larger and in more of a position for the index fingers.  



That's called hitstun, it only makes the game better.  Smash at its core is a fighting game.  An unorthodox one, but a fighting game nonetheless with party game elements.  As a result combos should be present.  You can't pull off combos without proper hitstun as Brawl so kindly demonstrates.  The lack of hitstun (amongst various other factors) also means matches tend to drag on for longer, as it's much easier to recover in Brawl and a match that drags because a character refuses to die because they can get out of hitstun and momentum cancel brings tedium.   Brawl is undeniably a slower paced and more defensively inclined game compared to Melee.  We're trying to make it more offensive again.  

Alternatively, you're friend can just learn to DI and crouch cancel.  There are ways good players can try to evade combos.  You're never completely helpless in Smash.  It just takes skill and good judgement.



Nobody is flaming anyone.  Merely refuting and enlightening.

Project M [TAS] - Lucas Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOdcF_bOrvs#ws)

It's another TAS. This time with Lucas.

Lolwow.

@1-In vBrawl I was able to run then press A and get an item (doing 'DashAttack'). I've noticed in Project: M you can't do this. You just go right past it.

@2-I'm talking about using a Nunchuk and Wii Remote. If I were to use a GC Controller I never press Z to shield or dodge(I use Z for grabbing obv).

@3-Well, that is his problem. I never really have that problem cuz I know how to handle things. I could just let him read what you type for #3. I forgot about hitstun now that I think about it.

-----------------------
Thanks for replying SDo0m.
Thoughts about #2's Nunchuk w/ Wii Remote use?
Before it usually would always work in vBrawl but in P:M. It doesn't apply.

Wow im suprised of all the comments, I dont get how this is even an arguement, Project M craps on brawl, if I had to pick between regular brawl over project M at gamestop I would definitly buy project M, wow project M is just so much better than brawl i dont even see how people are arguing over it, simple I put the game in and all the old techniques from melee are back and you can now move quicker and do better combos, other crap to but forreal I wish everyone would just shut up, at the end of the day, project M is better than regular brawl, And some of you guys complain about stuff and glitches on project M that never happened to me yet so I dont see the problem.

Melee > Brawl

Melee + Brawl = Project M

Theres your answer project M is better than brawl

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Post Merge: May 18, 2012, 04:20:55 PM

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Oh not to mention that me and numerous friends who played ssb competitively stopped playing crappy brawl for a reason, it wasnt like melee it was worst besides graphics.
once project M came out we played it like everyday and even had some tournaments, project M brought crappy brawl back to life in my opinion

:srs:
Beast.

ICEN, I have a small suggestion:

Could you please consider including the "I think that..." expression in your vocabulary? Being affirmative all the time sure makes you sound very tough and determined and all, but Project M is still a Work In Progress. Any and all criticism toward the Project will be more helpful to the developpers than just just blindly crapping on vBrawl. Not to mention, I don't really think anyone really cares about how much you dislike vBrawl and idolize Melee. No offense.

I'm trying to say that as politely as possible, but being insulting towards vBrawl when a bunch of people in this community still appreciate playing it isn't going to get you far, and will most likely direct anger towards you.

I'm sure your input and criticism can be of much value, since you've been playing the game so much.

And that kind of applies to everyone here, actually. Giving your input and feedback (like what SmashClash just did) is very important in here, instead of telling us which of P:M or vBrawl you hate the most. The former is helpful, while the latter only stirs up drama and shows a sort of narrow-mindedness.

Thank you for your attention.

1) I know, but what I was getting at was that it doesn't really make sense anyway even in vBrawl hence why I believe we removed it.

2) Ah fair enough.  Not sure what the problem is there.  Apparently there have been a couple of funky issues regarding Wiimote setups.  Dunno why.

@1- Well, I just like it. I can use it to my advantage.
@2- Oh well.

Also it can disrupt combos and such since when you grab items, your Fsmash, ftilt, and jab are changed and you also cannot grab, mostly not for the better. And don't get me started on Hammers.

Items tend to fall very low and at random spots, which makes it infeasible to predict where it will be. What can happen is that an item will spawn in front of you and you'll end up grabbing it, whether you like it or not since it spawned after you make your input.

In other news, I can make Capsules and carrier items NOT explode. Ever. Anyone wants to see that, make your voice heard.

I can also make ALL item spawn points obscenely high if you guys want. Once again, make your voice heard.

is there a way to make vbrawl's charizard have the same up grab as project m's

You do realize that brawl is just a video game right, not to sound like a [censored] but you guys get mad if I say brawl is worst then project m like brawl is a human being its just a game.

I know maybe there are some things that needed to be fix but it all comes down to one simple thing, put the game in and play it, do you like it or do you not. When I played it I liked it not because it was more like melee or more like brawl but because it was a mixture of both.

When I say brawl is bad im not meaning that literally of course brawl is good but I think if brawl keep the same graphics and everything but just had the fighting system that melee did it would have sold more.

Its like Gears of war 1, gears of war 2 and gears of war 3

I played all of them and played them non stop so when i say gears of war 1 was worst i dont mean IT WAS THE WORST GAME EVER, im just saying that the other or newer gears of war is better than the old one.

Of course brawl was good but if project M was complete in every way shape or form i think in MY OPINION it would be better.

When I played brawl it just felt to slow with the movements and everything.

I like games that have specail things that allow you to get better.

if you guys dont play other systems you wont know what i mean lol

gears of war, you can wallbounce, strafe, and do many things to GET BETTER

call of duty, you can increase sensitivity and other stuff to GET BETTER than other players who dont play on a high sensitivity

On melee you could wave dash L cancel moon walk and tons of other stuff to GET BETTER than the player who doesnt put in time to perfect those techniques

on brawl they took those out so now I dont have many techniques to learn to get BETTER than someone else

the only way to get better on brawl is to fight smart where as on melee you fight smart but you get all of those extra techniques to master and to learn to get better other than just the fighting part of things

is brawl bad no,
is melee bad no
is project m bad no

Im not saying one is bad
im saying i like ONE over the OTHER

Imagine this

its 2014 and gamestop is releasing two new nitendo games

one is called SSB BRAWL 2

the other is called SSB MELEE 2

If i seen that everybody that I know in real life would probably go with MELEE 2 especailly if the graphics are good and there are new characters, think about it there would be no reason to pick brawl because brawl takes out techniques, where as melee you do the same thing as you can on brawl but you get more techniques so i dont see how brawl would benifit you/


You guys need to realize one thing

Im not BASHING PEOPLE

Im bashing a video game, its a game, the video game SSBB DOES NOT HAVE FEELINGS
if i say halo is bad then halo doesnt cry

If i bash somebody or their post then i would see your point because they have feelings but if im bashing a game does it matter its not like brawl has feelings

At the end of the day you guys like what you like and me and my friends like what we like

btw im not trying to act tough, im not trying to sound like a [censored] either it only comes out sounding like that because when you read my post you decide how the words sound, maybe you guys think im yelling on this post

when i text it seems regular voiced because im the one typing the words so i know how there ment to be understood.

:)

That was actually more fun to watch than all of the others.


Do this.

They always explode on me. Always. And I always die. Always.

As for making them spawn higher, sure. I think it'd be pretty cool.

People don't get mad because you're bashing a game, they get mad because you're so smug and presumptuous about it. You act like everything you say is a fact.

And it obviously isn't.

Typing in all caps doesn't help either.

Good day.


That would be cool. I can't tell you how many times I go to grab a capsule and accidentally do a dash attack and blow myself to oblivion. :[

Would it be possible to get rid of dud Smart Bombs as well? It's the trolliest thing when you throw one at an opponent and it basically flies right through them.

Capsules not exploding? That... Would be GREAT! That would make items more fun, and not as random.

Um everything I said was fact, or was I lying about no dashing L cancling and other crap in brawl.

Maybe you should put your brawl in and try wave dashing because you cant, looks like fact to me.

---

---

All facts? Or opinions?

There's a difference. But I don't think you're aware of that.

Okay, listen, fact master. I don't care if what you said are facts or not, just don't add insults in-between, as that [censored] will cause what is happening right about now, which is, random havoc. Either watch your manners when posting your "facts" and respect others' "fact-less posts" or don't post at all, be it "facts" of life or not. You've been warned.

. . . The last pages have become off topic and rather pathetic :srs:

Kills my mood to lurk D: So.. If anyone needs I'll be in the serious discussions board :P

PS: What's planned to be done by the third demo?

All I can say is "a lot of stuff".  Since Demo 2 only came out a month ago, Demo 3 won't be for a looooong time.  But I will say that there's going to be some stuff that may blow people's minds.

However, what I can say is that we'll be releasing a patch for Demo 2 (Demo 2.1 if you may) fairly soon which fixes numerous glitches in Demo 2, as well as a couple of cool surprises.  

On a side note, we've reached 40,000 downloads ;D

http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/05/23/super-smash-bros-brawl-project-m-skyloft-stage (http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/05/23/super-smash-bros-brawl-project-m-skyloft-stage)

Where...is...this...STAGE?! :srs:

I recall a member named SOJ released an unfinished version of a Skyloft Stage and M22K offered to fix some transparency things so.... maybe that's it?

I dunno, but I want it. :O

Ah yes, i checked his thread and forgot he was working on it.

I gotta say though, it came out GREAT.

Absolutely. I have yet to play Skyward Sword myself (have it sitting up in my closet) but I love how the stage turned out. I especially like the Loftwing animations. XD

The patch is out guys. Later Days I'm going to sleep now.

And just to confirm: Yes the stage is in Demo 2.1. Which is released. Go now.

For all the info on the patch (demo 2.1) see here:

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4352 (http://www.smashmods.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4352)

Video of the revamped Temple:M Skyloft stage:

Skyloft [Project:M] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc3juYTm9tU#)

I honestly like brawl the way it is, better than melee. Melee was really fun and I never really lost, but It isn't as fun as brawl when I know I don't have to be faster than my opponent (which I generally am), but just have to be -better- than them.

But kudos to people who are making brawl fun for themselves, do what you enjoy.

Oh it is in 2.1? Yessssssss. I'm excited.

Congrats on amassing 40k downloads, by the way. I only just caught that, so I'm a bit late. XD

So uhh! Hiya! Kinda dropping in to leave my thoughts and stuff. Oh, and sorry ICEN. I didn't really read your rant there. But I'm sure it wasn't directed at me, so I'll leave you and whoever that's for to read it...

Anyways, I gotta say, I LOVE Project M! Me and my friend sat down and played a good few hours the other day, and the changes are really fun! As far as each SSB has gone, I've always liked them for their own merits. But being able to see a giant-scale project like this come SO FAR is awesome! Being able to play with Brawl characters in a Melee syle on N64 stages is exactly what I envisioned from even before Project M was announced! It's a dream come true!

As for as the characters go, I enjoy Lucario the most! I've always found found him a bit slow for my tastes, so being able to run around and combo with him like a berserk Fox is very fun! The change I like least is Pit. Not because it's bad, or anything. I just don't know what to do with him since is forward-b is gone. Snake and Charizard are pleasant surprises, and seeing Sonic NOT spin in some of his Smashes was the best surprise EVER.

In all honesty, I'd love to see the entire game get retooled like Lucario. Not "combo systems" or whatever, but just, "changed." It'd be pretty cool. Just me, though.


Anyways, I gotta say. Good job, keep up the good work! I look forward to when it's completed!

Don't worry, no one did. :af:

Anywho, got to try 2.1, and I noticed something odd: the computers wavedash.

Was that.... uh.... intended? I thought it was pretty interesting. XD

Also, Ness actually used his PK Thunder as an attack, which kinda surprised me since the computer almost never does that. Just some AI quirks I found entertaining.

Also also, I'm in love with the Skyloft stage. Yeah.

Oh, and Peach still seems to freeze. It's a shame since she's my main and I wanted to try her out, but oh well. /:

Dat stage! I want it. :af:

Check the changelist.  It was completely intended ;)  Furthermore, Captain Falcon, Fox, Falco and Wolf occasionally L-Cancel their aerials too.  AI in general is much better and more aggressive than before.


Care to elaborate?  Was never aware of any problems with Peach before, as nobody else has been experiencing any freezing with Peach.

Got the new demo.  Watching CPU Luigi WD across Smashville never gets old.  Haven't played enough to really notice the subtler balance fixes, but everything seems to be in order.

Ah, I figured. That's pretty awesome, it makes it so much more enjoyable to fight the CPUs.

Though Wolf tends to throw himself off cliffs, from time to time. XD


Hm, I wish I could, but whenever I pick Peach and try to load up a stage, I get a silent freeze. Happened with Demo 2 also, and I really don't know why.

Guess I'm the only one? /:

Skyloft is an awesome idea for a stage instead of temple P:M

It'd be pretty funny if in the future instead of fighting on ruins you fight on beetle's flying ship that goes around Skyloft.

Really like the AI changes as well, they are hella cool.

Oh, I lied, Peach doesn't freeze.

Well, she does, but only in Training Mode. I thnk that was addressed though.

Yay.

Nope, that's a lie too, she works in Training. Guess it was just RTB's Luigi Peach that was screwing things up.

Anyway, got to try her and I love her, even moreso than her Brawl incarnation.

Now we just need a new metroid stage and I'd be pretty content.
I just want a metroid stage that doesn't throw lava walls in your face or flip around every 10 seconds...
(Whoose idea was it at nintendo to make the frigate orpheon flip upside down any way?)
I dunno, I just feel like having brinstar is enough. no need for norfair.

Charizard is my favorite PSA in Project: M.
It think it goes great with my 2nd to last submitted hack(the black and special color charizard recolors).
I'm glad that you guys fixed that N-B and falling off the ledge thing.

It has been such a pleasure seeing this mod develop for a while now. Feels even better to continually play improved versions. Everything now just feels... right. There's still some issues, but damn is 2.1 amazing.

CPUs wavedashing is hilarious to watch.

I was hoping I'd get at least one playable stage per franchise. That'd be enough for me. I can always add custom stages at a later release.

I would like to report a freeze that I just recently got with the newest release. Attacking the Party Ball crashes the game. Also the game crashes just when the Party Ball opens.

When did you download 2.1? On Smashmods, they reported that re-downloading should fix the issue.

I know right? They trying to act like humans :af:

I downloaded v2.1 the day it came out.

Try re-downloading it. This is a quote from Smashmods from a dev:

Alright. Thanks for letting me know about this.
. . .
If I didn't know this, then I would of not used that item and waited until the next demo. :/

Okay, I've got enough of reading this. Thank you very much for deailing the thread so much, guys.
I'll lock this place for a few minutes, the time for me to do some cleaning.

UNLOCKED. SJS, BlackJax, Robz, and all the other guys who were typing a witty one-liner when I locked the thread, I'd appreciate that next time, you'd just report the post and wait for a mod/admin to intervene.
Not only would it make my cleaning job much easier, it would also avoid adding fuel to the fire.

Thanks~
Now back on topic.

Well now that's out of the way. >.>
. . .
Is the Project M team planning on editing the Stage Builder stuff?

No we are not planning on modifying stage builder.

I love Project M.
It brings back so many memories.

You know I grew up with Melee, I got the game when I was 5 or 6 years old.
I love playing Project Melee and having the same feeling I had when playing Melee when I was younger. Anyone thinking of modifying Subspace Emissary (can that even be done?)?

My opinion on it is... meh.

It's ok, and it's on a SD card when I need a change of pace when I play Smash.

Then again, I'm a Brawl- dev and auto-biased.

I mentioned that I love how Charizard plays, but playing Wolf also feels sooooooooo good.

I love how he plays, it's so great. So much more satisfying than regular Wolf. Especially that up smash.

And the dash attack? Yessssss. So much combo potential.

Peach is also pretty great, I've managed to chain a few down throws together and set up a few interesting combos. Good stuff, though the return of her floaty double jump threw me off. XD

I'd love to try P:M online at some point, though I'm really not that great. :af:

Project M 2.1 is has really made playing project M more interesting now.
Having the AI's able to dash during battle makes things feel more in the competitive mindset.
Since the AI's now dash back an forth its almost like they are the actual humans playing. I feel that since they now wave dash during battle it gives the AI's more chances to mindgame you.
I also love how some of the characters such as falco does the short jump B(gun) to keep opponents back.
Alot of the characters AI's actually do things that pros use during battle which is why its so interesting and fun now. Ya sometimes the AI will slip off the edge but its rare and now they don't always run strait at you sometimes they will stay back or run at you then wave dash back.

I'm loving wolf right now. I have a combo with wolf that is a instant kill if the opponent is at 85% or higher some opponents can be less in %
His changed dash attack I also love because its a mixup that puts them behind you and they fall directly into combo position.

Try this combo out with wolf its usually a instant KO on opponents at 85% or higher.

Grab, the throw the opponent in the opposite direction, hurry up and run at them before they hit the ground or just as they hit the ground and do your Down B(Shine),
After you do that short jump and do your OVER B attack which will instant KO them if you hit them with the end of the attack.

If you want to make it shorter you can just run at someone do your DOWN B then short jump and do your OVER B and this will also KO them, Grabbing just makes it easier

You can add a OVER Air ATTACK (the direction your facing) before the combo for more hits but you have to hit them up close with it because if you hit them with your claw it will knock them to far away, when they fall down grab them and finish the combo

PICK FOX as your opponent its works easiest with him.
I havn't played with every character yet because I've been training with wolf because my captain falcon doesnt work for some reason, HE NEVER WORKED I THINK THE DISK IS SCRATHED IDK?
Dont forget wolfs best technique is his down B shine attack because you can jump out of it to combo up with more attacks.

HERE IS ANOTHER SECRET WELL I figured this out dont know if you guys know about this with wolf. Ive only tested this on final destination.

If you are hanging off the edge of final destination fall of the edge just about 1inch down and do your over B you will go through the platform and can actually hit opponents like this or cross people up.

Also is there any info on which characters have different moves on 2.1
I know that wolfs dash attack is changed but is there other moves that are changed that anyone knows of?

Off the top of my head, stuff changed from Brawl:
Mario: D-special, D-taunt
Link: run
DK: dash attack
Lucas: jab, u-tilt, Uair, Dair, Bair
Sonic: D-smash, Fair, Nair, N-special does tricks on hit
Lucario: F-tilt, U-smash, Nair, D-Special, Bair
Wolf: U-smash, dash attack, run
Toon Link: D-tilt, U-smash, F-smash, Nair
Charizard: jab, f-tilt, d-tilt, S-Special, D-special, U-throw
Ike: D-smash
Wario: F-Smash, D-Smash, Bair, Dair, S-Special
Snake: U-tilt, F-smash, Crawl Tilt, Nair
Pikachu: Bair
There's more that I can't think of right now

Fox: Wait animation. Its the same as in Melee/N64.
Ganon: His run, Forward Tilt, Up-Smash i believe
Snake: Side Smash, I think his Air-N A attack (Hits 4 times in vBrawl, 3 times in P:M)
Pit: Side B, Up B

One of the Project: M people on the team said the AI will be able to get much more advanced.
I do hope they could add Level 10+ instead of just Level 1-9.

Now that will give us a real challenge against CPU's.

The current ones just gang up on you. (In vbrawl)

There's a code some where for up to level 16 AI, but I can't remember where it is.

Ya if they make a level 10 then need to make it really good because people will always say just make one more level and if that goes on you'll have a level 23 ganon running around lol.

One thing I would like to see from the AI is them spacing. What I mean by that is sort of how falco is now programed to short jump his laser shots to keep you away.

But if you can do this with other AI's that would be good you would just have to find out which aerial moves are best when short jumping at your opponent to keep them back with each character so the AI can use that spacing move until they get in on the opponent then they would combo.

Take captain falcon for example, When I fight my friend 1v1 I use his basic A aerial attack to space with. That is the move where cap swings two kicks. It would be pretty cool seeing the AI of captain falcon using this to keep me back even if I ain't near him he would do it while jumping around just to keep me away.

But ya I like that some characters such as fox,falco,wolf will short jump with their guns because it makes it harder to get in on them and now since the AI's wave dash a dash dance sometimes the overall AI is now more human like since they use the techniques humans use.

If they can find out the spacing moves of each character and program the AI to use that move to get in on opponents or keep them back that would be pretty damn cool.

Level 10 = Diskusting Jk

Not really necessary.  We just need to make the AI better (i.e. Levels 1 to 9 will be better).  I mean the current AI changes are already pretty cool and they were just done by one person over the space of about a month.  As time goes on, it will only get better.

As for changes, the changelist is huge.  If we wanted to get right into the little changes, we'd be here forever. 

Yes we are going to make them stronger in offense and aggressiveness.
This WILL come at the cost of their unrealistic reflexes however.

Sooner or later, we'll find out what makes the AI bully human players and change that.

Also SSE can be modded. No one has the patience to do so outside of texture hacks however.

I can see why, considering the stage design, and how many stage files there are. Thus, there're too many SSE related files aswell.

Just imagine what one or multiple people could do if he/she/they have the patience to modify SSE.

The only character my friend said he thought needed fixed was bowsers left and right dash.
When you dash with other characters left to right they turn and it looks umm proper? IDK how to explain it just pick bowser and dash left to right really fast.

When bowser does it he looks a little awkward and gimp. Im talking about dash dancing not the wave dash. It might not bother you guys much but it feels and looks kinda gimp when you play with bowser and do that

Project M is an awesome game, but I'm gonna wait until the Final Version.  Otherwise, I'll use Brawl- (Minus).

Project M changed my life.  :)

i thought project M was okay, but to be honest, if i wanted to play a melee styled game i would play melee xD I honestly did like the creativity of movesets though and especially lucas :D However, my heart was broken when i didnt see the pink ball of awesomeness, kirby! xD
But i agree with KC, if i do end up getting it again it will be when the final version comes out, and i just saw a preview for ivysaur and it looks amazing xD

Dunno if it has been mentioned yet, but Project M is getting another new Demo!

Demo 2.5 is to be released soon, with updates to certain characters, as well as Ivysaur and Squirtle(as well as potentially more characters) being added to the roster. There is also promise of more stages to be added.

Reveal trailer
Project M Demo 2.5 Announcement Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDYx3IRQXcw#ws)

Ivysaur trailer
Project M Demo 2.5 Roster Reveal: Ivysaur! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQatVzbUa2c#ws)

Project M to hold me over till Sm4sh get's it's first reveal trailer >.>

Yeah I can't wait for Sm4sh to get it's first reveal trailer just so everyone can whine about it not being Melee, AGAIN.

Don't get me wrong, P:M is good to those who like it, but... I'd rather not have Smash ever again if every single entry is to be compared to Melee...

*Ivysaur just learned Solar beam! :D

I have to agree with LC on this one. It's pretty clear the people who loved Melee are more than biased, and just like how Brawl was compared to Melee, when Sm4sh gets around it will be compared to how it's not like Melee instead of being judged on it's own merits, like it should be.

In a worst case scenario, it would be compared to Project M.

Putting the off-topic aside, I still haven't played Project M. Partly due to laziness, and partly because I dunno what the best method for using it is. Riivolution and the like.

-and the main reason I don't use Riivolution is because I kept having problems with it. .-.

Unless P:M gets PAL support, I won't be able to try the mod though...
But all of these techs and balancing sure does make it look interesting :P

Definitely looking forward to it, can't wait until the cast is finished. Also, based on a few v2.5 matches I've seen, it looks like Marth is finally going to be back to his Melee self 100%. v2.1 Marth kinda disappointed me.

A PAL version will be done, but not for a long time.

What's wrong with a comparison between sm4sh and Project:M? The question is going to be inevitable whether or not the new game offers more and is therefore worth spending money on. Sm4sh is guaranteed to have better graphics, but I know of no announcements concerning any details, save for the thought that there won't be oodles of new characters. Will they even have the massive sound track brawl had? The fact that they admitted balance issues due to a large roster suggests more attention will be put towards polish, which is good, but just how polished will it be?

I doubt the melee comparison will be brought up as much. People already know what direction the series is being taken in now, so they won't be surprised and thus outraged.

P.S. I severely dislike melee. I never think to myself when playing project:M that "I could just go play melee." Melee is flawed and outdated. Project:M fixes various frustrations, as a sequel ought to.

We said Smash4 being compared to MELEE, not Project M.

Also that may be how sequels work, but Smash does NOT work like a regular sequel, so drink a jar of obvious oil.

And really, the comparisons won't end. Trust me, by the time the Wii 2 gets hacked, there WILL be a Project: M2. 'cause, you know, it's apparently the only game worth playing in the series.

So a lot of new stuff has been announced for demo 2.5

Lot's of characters tweeks, new stages, crew mode, audio fade, being able to use Japanese letters, as well as today it was announced that demo 2.5 will be released on the 28th.

Oh and the dev team is teasing 2 new characters on top of squirtle and ivysaur. My money is on Samus and Zero suit samus, but that's just me, might end up being Meta Knight for all I know.

I'm very glad to hear that the new version will be out before next year.  It'll be good to start off the new semester with a new version.

Still wondering who the new characters will be.  I really want Samus, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

I'm pretty excited, also cant wait to use pit with all his improvements(favorite char in Project M :D)

What are the new stages?

Wow, I am really blown away by this. What an amazing project this team has put together. Im looking forward to seeing more!

Think you could push the demo release date to the 25th? :P

I'm gonna love Project M's Ivysaur!

Sawnic

Sonic - Spin Maneuvers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQfge2GSjjc#ws)

He can reeeeeeallly mooooove

So, on the Show Me Your News live stream, they just announced that Zero Suit Samus will be playable in the new demo.

Normal Samus won't be though. :srs:

http://projectm.dantarion.com/characters.php?character=zerosuit (http://projectm.dantarion.com/characters.php?character=zerosuit)

[censored], I was right on one character at least. So I'm guessing Yoshi, Diddy, or Meta Knight for the next character, unless they want so much hype and announce Roy for Demo 2.5 >.>

I just want to know how regular Samus will play >.<

anyone know what the ? is on the melee veterans section of the char page is?  link: projectm.dantarion.com/characters/

Awhile back the Project M team was trying to get Roy working as his own slot, so speculation would lead it to a non-clone version of Roy being made by them. Others think it could be Mewtwo, though honestly I haven't a clue if they still plan on implementing it at all at this point.

why not have both and Doc?  or Pichu?

Yeah but they have dant with them so its just time to see this announced...roy or mewtwo.

---

Post Merge: December 15, 2012, 01:55:59 PM

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They are almost clones of mario and pikachu just with a couple of differences...like YL

2.5 stream featuring ZSS.  Get it while it's hot! 

http://www.twitch.tv/dazee_ (http://www.twitch.tv/dazee_)

Actually Doc had a bit of differences and he was higher on the tier list than his "original", as for pichu... its cute.   :af:

Small differences =/= Original. And who the Hell cares if Dr. Mario was higher on the Tier List than Mario was in Melee?

That is a very unintelligent argument. Pichu had potential for a great "glass canon" playstyle. But it's just that Pichu failed to do so. Those who played as Pichu for a long while might have figured out ways to use Pichu efficiently. But other than those players, Pichu just sucked.

I used to main both of them, but now I don't.  that's why i brought it up.  i still wish they were back.  Sakurai better not remove anyone else unless its 3rd party

EDIT: I have high doubts that the next PM'd character will be Yoshi.  I accidentally accessed all characters and (as i thought) they can still wavedash with their brawl moveset except for yoshi.  He uses the same air-dodge physics as Brawl, it must require additional coding or something but I still doubt him in 2.5

Nice, I saw the stream for a bit before it went offline.

Looking forward to play as ZSS.

From what i "heard" the clone engine doesnt fully work because of artciles.
but roy. he works fine. own slot and all

again, i heard all this

link of proof if you have one?

well someoen told me. idk where they got it from

oh ok.

EDIT (12/18) Hey there's a new SSS Design with a new Norfair!

2.5 is a gogo!
http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-6048.html (http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-6048.html)

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/zackwinzard/album%202/al_121229_0608binout.jpg)

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=30390 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=30390)

In celebration, cause it was needed anyways. xD

Thanks Mewtwo~ :3

I'm LOVING how Ike, Marth and Sonic all feel now. Especially with Sonic having his Advance somersault for Side-B and his Sonic Updraft from Battle for his U-Tilt. I'm having so much fun when I should get some sleep. xD

I'm loving 2.5, I love the highlights. I also noticed changes with Falcon, his falcon punch always you to turn at any time, I think. SZS's Down-B on an opponent causes her to T- pose for me. But that's just a small issue. Everything else is near perfect. And I love the new SSS. Great work Project M!
 

Yeah, 2.5 is pretty cool so far. Ivy is definitely my favorite "newcomer" from this build. Dat Solarbeam.

I'm trying to like ZSS, but it's a bit hard for me to do anything when I keep killing myself. It almost seems to me that her Up B is rendered useless, since she falls so fast. That's probably just my poor reflexes, though.

Haven't played with Squirtle much yet, though he's a bit tough for me to handle as well.

Ike is... meh, to me, but he's always been meh for me. He almost feels downgraded from the previous build, but maybe that's a good thing because he was insane last time around. I like the aesthetic changes to his Neutral B, though.

In all though, Charizard remains my favorite. Though Pit and Wolf come pretty close.

I can also finally almost handle Falco again. Yay.

Also, was there any reason to remove a majority of the stages from the selection...? And can I get them back? Because... I want them back. :|

I know right?  Classic Expansion will be put back... but 2.5 is amazing, I've become a Ivysaur user just like that, and I used to main Lucas!  This version has to be the best one yet!!!  (and nice litte easter egg with Ness's up taunt  ;) )

Tip: If you use ZSS's Up-B quickly enough after a jump, you'll get a very significant boost in height. This goes for the double jump too. :3

I'm loving ZSS so much right now. Though, I too have killed myself quite a lot. Even while just practicing. xD;

Except we didn't remove any stages.  You do realise the SSS has two pages right?

Yeah just press L or R to flip between them.... all the stages that aren't on page 1 are on page 2, such as Fourisde, Hyrule Castle, Shadow Moses Island, Hyrule Temple, etc.

Project M Demo 2.5 Roster Reveal: Diddy Kong (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2-iXqSOBvM#ws)

lol

Nope. Didn't notice.

... well that's embarrassing.

I got to try this! I loved the old one a lot!

2.5 is a damn good update I must say. Really loving the changes ascetically and the actual game play changes.

Ivysaur is surprisingly my favorite added character. He's just too much fun to mess around with. Dem seed bomb mix ups.

I got a question though.. the Gecko OS gct is 34KB and gecko OS can't read that much but even though it does work but I don't know if it adds everything..

I use Gecko OS with this GCT and it works fine for me.

I'd ask if the whole stage select page thing (if there's more than two, that is) single stock stuff and "forbidden tags" would ever be available on a normal Brawl, but I'm ready for any "nos" headed my way.

So let's start a little discussion shall we?  Here's a couple of questions:

Who do you most enjoy out of the four new characters (Ivy, Squirtle, ZSS and Diddy)?

What are some of the major/minor changes that you really like about P:M (whether it be the characters, new SSS, recolours, engine fixes etc)?

Which character(s) do you main?

I'll be more in depth at Smashmods later on (after I spend a little more time with it)

Zero Suit is my most enjoyed of the newcomers. In-fact, my bro pulled off a D-air-to-death combo on DK at Skyloft.

Major stuff: the engine fixes. Game feels so much better.
Minor stuff: the recolours. Addressing some of the problematic colors is a great idea. I hope you guys plan to do more.

Mains: Fire Emblem

Ivysaur (I switched to main her from Ness and Lucas), she's really easy to learn

Major Stuff: The engine (duh) and the new SSS, and Japanese Tags!!!
Minor Stuff: Stage striking, audio fade, and the recolors.

Mains: Toon Link and Ivysaur

Bowser and snake recolors freeze on my game

Well I like the single stock thing. On paper it sounds really interesting. How hard was it to even be implemented anyway?

oh ya and i tried thany's final roy ported to rob without codes and it freezes when it is supposed to say go!

luvin it so far but , a small issue so i was able to add most of the project m chars to my brawl so far but now when i add the new ones from this update it freezes n loses  chars mid battle any ideas?

As stated already my new favorite character is definitely Ivysaur. I always thought he had awesome smashes in brawl, but had garbage specials, now I see that it has been remedied and he is much more interesting to play.
As for changes, I'm digging the new character select screen, as well as the 3 frame delay fixing as that was what was really holding M from feeling like melee, I can say now it's my favorite smash game, and it's not even done.
Finally my mains are Ike, Toon Link, and Wolf at the moment (Working on Lucario and Ivysaur)
I just like how each character feels.

I love the new Ivysaur, but if I had to pick a favorite, I'd go with Squirtle. He's the one I've been using the most, and mostly because of Bubble. Short hop + Bubble + Down Grab or Up Smash is one of my favorite short chains to pull off with him. So good.

My main is still Charizard, though. The fact that I love the Pokemon the most of all the characters makes me kind of wish the Pokemon Trainer was back in, but then that means they wouldn't have their individual Down Bs, which would render it kind of pointless... eh.

The thing I like most is the amount of aesthetic changes to things like graphics and animations. They may be small changes, but they really change the look and feel of the game, even for the characters who were recloned.

Sonic's my main since he has dem really fancy ways. :af:

So what I'm reading here is characters being recloned... why, exactly?

Because everything has to be just like Melee!

...

I find it ironic. In Melee. People whined about clones. In Brawl, they changed them quite a bit... Now people want clones back to what they were...

Personally. I think if the clone engine ever gets cracked. It would be neat to have both versions of clones. Like... Holding R button changes the move set. So you have the choice to either play the character just like Melee. Or a fixed up Brawl version of the character, to better fit P:M. (Or in Ganon's case, make him more like the LoZ version.)

This would even be good for those who don't like the direction some characters were changed to. (I'm looking at YOU Lucaryu... Some people liked normal Lucario more.)

But, I do realize this would be a LOT to balance out... So even with the Clone Engine, it most likely wouldn't happen.

I'm just curious, since... well, the clones could be worked to still retain some Melee aspects AND be their Luigified selves.

I dunno, it's just a thought.

Well they KINDA did that with Ganny.

If you hold B while doing side B. He does the Brawl version of the move as I recall.

All my PSA's I wanna use are freezing -- why?

It's more along the lines of the competitive community [censored]ing that their favorite melee mains don't work exactly as they ought to. While characters like Lucas and Ness that are pretty similar have become drastically different in their execution moveset wise, characters like Ganon and Falco have been reverted back to their cloneness as they were better that way.Try playing Ganondorf in brawl, then try him in melee. In melee he is awesome to play as, and in brawl he feels sluggish and unrefined. As far as I know though, no other characters besides those two were brought back to clone status.

I believe the Project M files have various codes that help them work properly. That could be a cause.

Oh.  No wonder... :srs:

Well will the earlier demo ones work?

Out of curiosity, because maybe I'd like that. I think those didn't have codes, did they?


I'm sorry, but Ganon being a Falcon on steroids is far from "awesome". At least in Brawl Ganon feels like his own character, even if Luigified.

Depends on one's view.

The fact he WAS such a powerhouse in Melee alone could be considered "awesome" to some...

I find sonic's homing attack really overpowered because you can just keep spamming it.

It's got high start-up time and predictability. Shield, spot dodge, roll, or just whack him out of it in the 5 hours it takes for him to start spinning and get to you.

Start-up's not as slow as you're making it out to be.  It's considerably faster than it was in vBrawl.  It's the endlag that you should watch out for.  Unlike 2.1, he can no longer instantly cancel his HA on hit with a special.


Are you playing against terrible people?  It's not OP in the slightest.  Honestly anyone that's outclassed by HA spamming should be deemed a terrible player because it's a horribly ineffective strategy.  It's like getting beat by Kirby Down B spam.  HA works best as a mix-up and gimping tool I find.  It wrecks spacies.

^ lol you could say that I was playing against lvl 9 CPU and my cousin (who is epic at Vbrawl but didnt know what PM was lol)

Spoilered cause reasons.


-and now I shall flee before SDo0M or someone else comes and replies to this. Lunch time!

wait what?
re-cloning?

any argumentated reason for this weirdness?

You know what disappoints me?  The fact that people keep hammering on at this stupid argument and ignore everything else about P:M.  Seriously, we've had this argument HOW MANY [censored]ING TIMES?  It's BORING.  There's so many other things to discuss with this game.  Discuss them.  Continuously whining about one/two characters of whom you don't even play extensively enough over and over in this thread is pointless.  There are literally a million other things you could comment on.

I strongly agree with this.

But it does say something when SO MANY people say the same thing...

Like I said though... The issue should be left alone. Until perhaps CE progress has been made...


THEN you could make versions of Falco, and Ganondorf that differ from the Melee versions... Without getting rid of the Melee clone versions.

As I said before, they could be selected in a manner similar to Zero Suit Samus. Holding R button while selecting them... This would be sorta like some Mugen characters. When you hold start while selecting them, you get an alternate move set.


...But then again. Perhaps this is a terrible idea. Since it would need additional balance...

I was totally stoked about the new P:M but somehow my Wii and Computer had to crap out on me. As soon as i can get one of them fixed, I will get to playing it. For some reason I wanna play as Ivysaur.

It's used by so many because people seem to be blind sighted by this particular fact (which isn't even 100% true), that they tend to ignore EVERYTHING else the game has to offer, and at this point, this whole argument it getting stale and petty.

Also, IF we ever get the clone engine working, we wouldn't really want to waste the limited amount of instance slots on different versions of the same character.

Hm... I see...

I keep forgetting that even with it's completion, there will be limited slots (actual ones on the CSS, or just ZSS type of slots)...

I do like some of the things that have been done, such as with Lucario and Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon so far, but that one fact, the fact the top tiers will be exactly as they were in Melee, as well as the recloning of Falco and Ganondorf, bothers me.

At first the reason was because it was being made to play exactly or almost exactly like Melee, but that bias has more or less passed. I'm over that now. I can think more objectively about Project M as opposed to say...a year ago.

I just wish they you guys would declone the characters further, by giving them their Melee stats, but giving the characters (the clones in particular) new things to play with, like new, creative moves that could fit into the play environment, a new special or two, or maybe even a brand new Final Smash?

I just like seeing creativity from people. You guys have been doing plenty of that with other characters, but the lack thereof on Melee's clones that still reside in Brawl disappoints me.

Thing is, Ganondorf and Falco have been given all the good attributes they had in both Melee and Brawl, and where one attribute fits better in the overall playstyle or not.
That's the reason why even though a lot of Ganon has been changed to Melee stat wise, things like side B and certain animations have not.
Same goes for Falco, but a lot less has been kept from Brawl due to most of his Melee attributes outweighing his Brawl ones.

There should be a separate thread for talking about clones.

Okay so apparently I hurt someone's sensibilities. Let's see if I can rephrase my post to not do so.


Well, there's the whole "failure" thing that plays on a controller that isn't the Gamecube. I'm not sure if that was discussed here or not.


You call of us being blindsighted, but you do nothing to respond in value about it. I mean, what? What is there to discuss that, in your eyes, would see relevant? I mean, far from me to imply that only discussions inside the P:M-specific forums can be taken seriously... but that's what it feels like, at times.


Soooo... Roy's not making an appearance? Or is he? 'cause, see, this is what I mean. You get clones on P:M - that's fine... as you explained, they're a mix of the best attributes of Melee and Brawl - but where does Roy stand? Do we get Marth with the same treatment Mario had? Do we actually get Roy as a seperate character? Does he even get his own moves or just stay Marth's wingman?

The code has been removed in the 2.5 demo release in case you hadn't noticed already (not sure if you have played 2.5).

It has been discussed to death, and the answer is and will always be the same.
They have been 'recloned' due to balancing, one of the key things driving this mod.

And you could for example discuss why certain stages are in Project M and why some aren't, or the fact that the audio now fades after the game being left idle for more then three minutes.

I was more referring to having two Falco's or two Ganon's in the game.
If Roy ever gets in a working state, he'll probably be rebalanced to be more viable.
Whenever or not he gets decloned in the process is something that will happen if necessary for balance sake (which will probably happen on more than one occasion, seeing as Roy wasn't exactly top or high tier material).

I can't play it. No PAL release yet.

And before you say "just... get your own copy of US Brawl", it's not as easy as it sounds, and I don't want to betray my region. Personal preference. I mean granted, the people who know me out here know how much I love "Melee", but that doesn't mean I won't try this sooner or later. It's just... I prefer it to be a PAL release, if any. We almost always get the Montreal Screwjob for things.

With that said, I actually thought it was a modification of the smashbros_sound.brsar itself, and not just a code. Since, well, P:M takes heavily from Melee and Melee had japanese voiceovers regardless of region, so...

The only thing I only have an issue with is the Castlevania Stage. Not so much the stage itself, but the fact people - most prominent example being IGN - think P:M inserted it into the game when... one could already do that before. I mean, this is more of a to-may-to to-mah-to discussion, but like... I dunno.

Also, the cool new things, the single stock, the stage thing, the fadeout, that's all well and good. That's why I asked earlier in one of my posts here when those will be released for standalone use (and maybe for someone talented to... well, port to PAL because REASONS :B )


Yeah, but that's why I asked. I mean Roy was a clone in his way, how would he be handled knowing your previous statement of not wasting slots on different versions of the same character? Keeping in mind that there are people that enjoyed him thoroughly as well?

Ok, what does that even mean.

No really, what the [censored] does that mean.

Seriously

I just

Really

What.

Sorry, but the only code that was released to public at this time was the input lag removal(NOT WIFI).
Read this post by Magus for more information.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=331578 (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=331578)

Seems to have enough info for someone like DWOLF to port this thing.

I don't know if the other codes will be posted publicly yet.

 

Thoughts on P:M?
I'm loving it. It gets 100x better with each release. Character viability is great, aesthetics are great, controls feel great... I could go on and on. I do agree with not balancing around spacies, but the PMBR should work on balance AFTER every char has a concrete design.

This mod is awesome. Good S*** PMBR.

What about the Top Tiers? That was another one of my big concerns. The fact they would be as good as they were in Melee makes me nervous. Wouldn't that mean they would be as nigh unstoppable as they were in Melee?

Spoilered for size


That's all.

EDIT: Adding more...

Another thing that bothered me that is mentioned in a few of the character's profiles is the fact that some characters had their animations changed back to their Melee incarnations... That seems like as though you tried to regress an already finished, fully illustrated picture to it's sketched form. Why bother?

The animations are namely an aesthetic thing, while they define the attacks the characters do, changing them back to their Melee forms shouldn't be a requirement. It seems like a poor choice in artistic taste when at least two or more people on your team have the ability to create amazing animations, only to waste them on perfectly restoring the animations to their Melee appearance. Why bother? Why not improve upon the Brawl ones by making them better rather than regressing them to their Melee forms? It seems to give off the feel of a mindset where "The animation is from Melee, so it is better!" This isn't the case with all the animations of the characters who have had  animations restored to Melee form, I know, but still.

for god sake velen can you a talk a little more positive? Project M has more then clones.... and stuff like that...

Last I checked the thread was open. Don't expect everyone to praise it.

Indeed... Everyone has a right to their opinion. Battleon469, you have your opinion. Velen has his... Try to be respectful to that.

First of all, people seem to assume that the top tier consists of borderline broken and (almost) unbeatable characters.
That's simply not true, as they are beatable in a higher degree than MK is in VBrawl.
And especially in Project M, where characters are not only buffed, but where also some if not most of them recieved tools to counter the shenanigans the top tier can throw out.

As for the animations, sometimes, the Melee animations are just better, and also contribute to the characters stats in terms of visual indication.
It has nothing to do with lacking creativity or regressing, but with balancing and matching the visuals with a characters stats (read: the overall feel of a character).

No because every other character has been improved.  It's that simple.  There are more characters that can fare well against them and counter them.



You know I do find it somewhat amusing how you seem to think you have such a broad idea on how balancing a game works when you yourself just admitted that 1) you're not a competitive player of any sort and 2) you don't actually design Smash games yourself.  Honestly you're making it seem as though we're incompetent developers.  As though we don't know the games that we're redesigning.  That is not the case.  

First off, let me just highlight the fact that this first and foremost is a competitive mod.  Despite the fact that Project:M can appeal to many, it primarily appeals to competitive Melee players.  The top tiers of Melee are what defined the metagame.  They are whom these competitive players use and enjoy the most and they're a huge component of what made Melee the fast paced game it is.  As a result changing them whilst we're still developing the rest of the characters and while the metagame is still developing would only alienate members of our primary target audience.  

Also to address your end point, tier lists don't necessarily reflect the balance of the game.  Tier lists reflect tournament results.  There is always going to be a top tier and a bottom tier.  What defines balance is how much worse the bottom tiers are comparative to the top tiers.  Everybody in P:M is about as good as the top 7 or 8 characters of Melee at the moment, and pretty much all are viable tournament choices.  Of course, we still need to observe how 2.5's metagame develops and see how each character fares but at the moment we're in a pretty good position.  



This right here is completely wrong.  Laughably so infact.  Animations are changed back to their Melee incarnations for various characters because it affects positions and timings of hitboxes as well as interrupts for attacks.  Most importantly, they're remade to capture the essence of the character from Melee.  They're not remade because they're better or worse than Brawl's animations (well, that's debatable), therefore stating it's a "regression" is incorrect.  Heck if anything it's a very primitive way of thinking of it.  

Not to mention there are far more custom animations in the codeset than remade ones.    

You know what Velen I'm curious, just how much of P:M have you actually played?  I would really like to know.

EDIT: ds22 basically said what I was saying but more concise.

Consider my concerns about those things alleviated then. That's just how it seemed to me.

I have not played P:M yet, but that's mainly cause I'm waiting for the first full release, more than anything else. When all characters will be playable. I know that's a long ways away, but I would rather have the full package than just a part of it.

Ease of installation is another concern for me. I don't have USB Gecko, I've never been able to play a full match of Brawl using Riivo (it would freeze for reasons I couldn't discern), and I can't use Dolphin for [censored] cause it won't run on my lappy.

Well you know...

http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Gecko (http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Gecko)

You could use this. Before USB Loading, this is what I used... Sure, you won't be able to use sound packs. But it is more stable then Riivolution.

Yeah Gecko OS is more stable(You don't need a USB Gecko for it), and we fixed a Riivo bug in 2.5b so there should be a lot less freezing.

I have a problem..

Whenever I choose Ivysaur or Squirtle, it makes the Wii stop reading the disc.

I'm using Riivolution and have absolutely no mods over it. Anyone know a way to fix this?

Erm... USB-Load it? Sounds like your disk is scratched, or your disk lens is dying.

When using USB Loader, it freezes in 2-4 minutes in-game.

Can't be disk lens because it plays all other original/copied discs perfectly. My original disc is not even that scratched.

is there a way to be able to actually play this through USB loading?
cuz i cant get past a black screen...

like, what loader do you use, what specific settings...

yeah no what so ever Pokemon trainer NEVER EVER works for me and same for Project M it makes me sad as I reallly want to use that fancy solar beam with Ivysaur but it just darn freezes.... I hate it.... and also can't use Gecko because I don't have a SD card that is smaller than 4GB.

Since my lens is not reading dual layer discs, I use Configurable USB loader to load Brawl mods and PM.

Just at of curiosity... Does anyone else get Zero Suit Samus to T-pose when you hit some with her Jump-Dow-A?

I haven't had it happen... weird...

Well, I managed to fix my problem from the previous page.

Turns out that their default colors makes the Wii stop reading the disc...which is pretty dumb.
Nope.

Try re-adding the original files again.

Guess who got to play Project:M today?

So far, things look and feel nice but some of the characters just feel and play in too clunky a manner for my taste.

Then there's the Hitstun. The [censored] hitstun.

The hit stun is ridiculous. Some characters literally, when hit at a certain percentage, will be entirely unable to recover in situations where they would normally be able to. Perfect example is when I played with Ganondorf. He got hit an an attack at one point, and he was sent reeling off the stage beyond the point of no return. This has happened with other characters several times too.

It's nice so far, but it really needs some fine-tuning.

Well, Velen. Not that I would know, since I haven't played P:M, and it's been a long time since I played Melee...

But was the hit stun pretty much like that in Melee? If so... They most likely won't fix it. Since that's how Melee was.

Also, about some characters being clunky... In most fighting games. There's always a character that is. And isn't right for each player. A character to you might not play well. But to another player, the one you like might not suit their tastes.

Stuff like the hitstun was happening at pretty low percentages. It's way too much. I wasn't even anywhere near the ledge, nor had that much damage, and that happened.

Fun Fact: Hitstun constants in Melee and Brawl are one and the same.

The key difference is that Melee and PM prohibits cancelling hitstun via air dodges/attacks/actions unless there's some sort of external interference.

On a side note, Smash 64's hitstun is quite a bit higher and more ridiculous.

Yeah Smash 64 was inspired by Pinball (Bumpers anyone?) so that makes sense.

I wish they hadn't done that. Some of the character's moves in Brawl could influence their momentum and allow them to survive longer by using said attacks out of hitstun. Now that's gone. Not everyone is as good as Melee tournament-goers were at utilizing DI on hit. Plus, allowing it would add more to each character's ability to survive. It was a step in the right direction to add that feature in Brawl.

I honestly see them regressing the game that way as a case of "it's better this way because Melee." I see it as unfair for the player to have to suffer that way. Watching at certain percents as they can literally no longer do anything to help their character keep from falling down to the blast zone. That's ridiculous IMO. Air Dodges I can understand, but not allowing a character to attack at all during the entire duration of the hitstun is just...dumb.

It's basically like "I hit you, now watch yourself die, foolish mortal".

This can even happen in situations where a character would normally be able to recover from that in Brawl. I think that's something Brawl did right.

Sounds like you're going through an adjustment phase.
Also the decisions we made on that was more than the fact that it was like that in Melee.

On a side note, the reason certain characters feel different is llikely because of how inputs are handled.

PM has no 10 frame buffer like Brawl, and also doesn't have Brawl's input lag of 0-2 frames, so characters WILL SEEM TO control awkwardly for the first few moments until you adjust to the lack of buffer and input lag.

It has nothing to do with adjustment, EY. I don't actively play Project:M. Today was the first time I've played it. I've also played Melee before.

-and I believe that making the hitstun that way is unfair to the player in situations where in Brawl, they would've normally be able to recover. That was a step forward in gameplay, making the way it was in Brawl, where some moves can influence their momentum while in-flight out of hitstun after a certain amount of time to increase their ability to survive when used, rather than having to wait the entire duration of the hitstun, when it's already too late to recover. Lucario's Brawl version of his D-Air is a perfect example of this, and so is Bowser's F-Air.

So what exactly beyond the fact that it was that way in Melee is the reason for making that way? I see no reason to make it that way other than "it was that way in Melee, therefore it must be that way" because the Project M team is prominently made up of Melee veterans, whom I bet weren't too happy with the changes in Brawl.

So yes. I am basically saying you guys made it that way on preference rather than anything actually concrete. Cause it sure seems that way.

Don't take this the wrong way. I had fun today, playing Project:M, but all the same, the hitstun as it is, is ridiculously punishing, the guy sitting next to me who was playing agreed.

The change was made to focus more on combos and kills, and less on recovering, thereby contributing to a faster paced gameplay.
It has nothing to do with 'regressing back to Melee', as it is more to help the game feel less stalling in terms of kills and the like.
So you may think Brawl's ability to cancel hitstun was a step forward, but for a game that tries to emulate the core of Melee's gameplay, it wasn't, and therefore the option was removed.

Also as a side note, we not only have Melee players in our backroom, but we also have actual Brawl players helping on Project M, so the notion that we would be an all exclusive club of Melee veterans is just plain wrong.

There's the key phrase: "A game that tries to emulate the core of Melee's gameplay." You just contradicted yourself right there, whether you will deny it or not. In order to make the game emulate the core of Melee's gameplay, you have to regress the game's engine back to Melee features. Ergo, the notion that it has nothing to do with "regressing back to Melee" is wrong.

I think you intentionally misconstrued the meaning of my words as well. There's a difference between "Melee players" and "Melee veterans", DS, and I believe the majority, if not all of you are the latter phrasing.

After playing Project:M yesterday, I can already tell you that you guys have greatly succeeded in that in your goal. However, the notion that putting less focus on recovering contributes to faster paced gameplay is preposterous and plain wrong. Recovering is a large part of surviving in Smash, and it has been since SSB64. If your definition of faster gameplay is:

"Defeating your opponents will be faster since the hitstun will eventually make it impossible for them to recover in a situation where a character would normally be able to do so."

-only then would that suffice. After playing Project:M I can tell you there is no correlation between fast gameplay and less focus on recovering. Because as soon as it got down to two people, gameplay slowed way down. It felt just like we were playing Brawl again.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

You keep insinuating that trying to emulate Melee's gameplay is a regression.
That is simply not true.
Just because Melee is the older game, doesn't mean it's lesser than Brawl, might it be with hitstun or something else (otherwise we wouldn't even have Project M to begin with).

And I'm not misconstruing your words here.
The Melee players in my post and the Melee veterans in yours are one and the same, it's just the phrasing that's different here, nothing else.
And again, we also have Brawl 'veterans' in the backroom, so your argument that we would all be Melee 'veterans' is just plain wrong.

And recovering, while part of Smash, isn't the most important thing you try to make of it.
Limiting hitstun cancelling does indeed contribute towards faster gameplay, as you have less options to stall in the match, thereby increasing the pace of a match.

Also (and this may be a contributing fact towards your gripe with hitstun), there is something called 'Spikes', which make a return from Melee.
This in essential in an angle range that, when hit by, sends you down with a slight angle (I.E. Ganon's and C. Falcon's DAirs).
Then there is also something called 'Meteors', which have been in Smash since the 64 days.
These, like spikes, also send you downwards when hit by.
The key difference however is that while you are in hitstun when hit by both, you can cancel the knockback of a meteor, thereby giving you more lenience in terms of recovering, while a spike cannot be cancelled.
This might be a contributing factor to your reduced ability of recovering, as Brawl only had meteors.

All in all, the fact you don't particularly like a change doesn't necessarily mean it's a regression of gameplay, nor that it needs to be changed / fine-tuned (and trying to twist my words, or saying that you bust my bubble doesn't really help to bring over your cause either).

That's funny... because that's exactly what everyone seems to think. Melee being more than Brawl even though it's older.

I speak of this not in a negative light... but the way I see it, there could be at least five different games of Smash, and they would all still be compared to and considered worse than Melee simply because the gameplay wouldn't be a direct sequel of Melee. Don't get me wrong, it's all well and good that you're doing this... but considering the path of this mentality, and where it's headed, would I be wrong to say future Smash games will have their own installment of P:M? (Where hacking is applicable, of course.)

Seeing as Namco-Bandai is currently involved with the new Smash game, I don't see it happening any time soon.

That doesn't mean much, though. I'm pretty sure they didn't state what parts of development they would be involved in.
Not to mention, it's Nintendo we're talkin about here. Even if NB was in charge of the gameplay, if Nintendo wants the next SSB to be more casual-friendly, more random, more defensive and with little to no combo potential, NB will have to do with that directing line. And I doubt that Melee/P:M enthusists would be really pleased about it.

Another small question that I've been meaning to ask for a little while:
Who is in charge of writing character stuff on the P:M website?

There's a gross profanity to video game history in ROB's intro about "saving the entire video game industry", which ... might want to get fixed. it's been around for awhile now, actually.

I trust it won't be as a party game as Brawl was.

And there are multiple people who write for the website, so I can't say for sure who wrote that part.
Regardless of that, I can easily pass it on and have someone fix that line (if felt necessary).

Spikes and meteors have nothing to do with my gripe with hitstun. Nor have they really ever caused a problem for me, cause I usually am able to dodge them a lot of the time.

(Spoiler due to size.)


I'll play the game, sure, but I'm not about to praise the team for making decisions largely based on bias towards Melee.

Aren't all Smash games party games though?

I wouldn't put my "trust" on Nintendo to disregard Brawl's sales crushing Melee's with its "party-game" gameplay, especially in Japan. But to each their own, I suppose.

And okay. It's a popular "Nintendo" myth that Nintendo/the NES/SMB/ROB 'saved the entire video game industry", so that person probably believes he's completely right.

@Velen
There things called DI, SDI, ASDI and DSDI, ever heard of them?
Because your argument that it removing hitstun cancelling hurts character survivability by that much is laughable.
And cancelling hitstun as soon as you enter it can indeed work stalling.

What's also laughable is that you keep using the 'Melee veteran' argument as a reason for why we would've removed hitstun cancelling.
We intend to keep, in accordance of the community, the best of all three Smash games, which favours most aspects of Melee (that the opinions of others who intend to play the game the fullest doesn't match with your opinion is up to you).
And while a lot of the backroom did indeed play Melee on a regular bases, it isn't 100%, and some even hail from the Brawl community (like TheReflexWonder, who made his fame in VBrawl with Wario and PT).
So again, your argument that the backroom is entirely made up of Melee 'veterans' is just plain wrong and uneducated.

And contrary to popular (and again, uneducated) believe, we do not think that Melee was a perfect game.
Melee, like most (if not all) games, has it's flaws.
That's why we aim at using the best elements from all three Smash games and combine them under one unified framework (thereby creating a game with tauntcancelling, wavedashing and DACUS all present).
We chose Melee as base due to the fact, while having flaws, wasn't as heavily flawed as VBrawl was, and to improve from there.
And while your opinion may differ from mine on what is to be called an improvement, the opinion of the many outweigh the opinion of the few, and in this case, your opinion belongs to the few.

But you are in your right to have an opinion about it and feel that it should be different.
What should be noted however is that the backroom doesn't operate on a one-tracked mindset that Melee was perfect, Brawl was [censored], and that it should have been a 1:1 clone of Melee + more characters.
It's not only wrong, but absurd as well to the point it's just mind-boggling to read.

Played Project:M earlier at the student lounge at the community college campus. The reviews from two of the guys playing were -and, I quote- "This is complete bull[censored]." They were both Melee players at one point...I'll get to why in a second, but I have a bug to report.

- On Fountain of Dreams, after Fox summoned the Landmaster, it suddenly shot up into the air and off-screen without warning, and ended with Fox getting stocked in the upper right corner of the screen. In another instance, the Landmaster was unable to fly up despite the platforms being semi-solid.

Onto why they called it bull[censored]. For some reason, there was input lag between pressing a button on the controller, even though there should not have been, but I'm going to chalk that up to the TV being the culprit.

Another problem they were having was that for some reason, the controllers in controller ports 1 and (I think) 3 were being generally unresponsive. They would press the jump button and nothing would happen, including on the second jump, and apparently things in general weren't working. I would chalk this up to the controllers, but I can't be sure.

We were using the Homebrew Full-Set.

Yeah out of curiosity, will there be a download of earlier builds? Curious.

@Velen
Using HD and widescreen TVs tend to produce some display lag, which can throw people off in terms of timing and input.

And while it seems that the Landmaster is indeed bugged (and will have to be fixed in a future release), the controller port issue however could be caused due to the Wii not properly reading certain files from the SD card, which can be fixed by reformatting the SD card (be sure to back up your files though).
Eight out ten times it fixes such problems.

@LC-DDM
I'm not sure, though if the demand for it is high enough, it could potentially be made available in the future.

I'm pretty sure I still have 2.1
(Mirror anyone?)

Why would you want a version other than 2.5b, though? It's mechanically worse, less polished, and has less characters.

If you were killed from the center of the stage as Ganondorf at mid-percent, you were doing something wrong. Something very, very wrong. The thing that first comes to mind would be the fact that you can't airdodge out of tumble in Project M, but uh... You would have had well over two seconds to just... Jump?

I don't think you understand. I literally could not do anything as I spiraled like a football in a lateral all the way into the pit. I tried jumping. I tried using Up-B. Nothing.

Because the 2.1 version actually lets you use the movesets in vB. I mean, Snake makes him not take Explosion-steroids.

Welp it's about time I bumped this thread huh?

It was announced a couple of weeks ago that a demo 2.6 would be coming with changes to balance, and possibly one more character (I've been following the thread on Smash boards and it's looks like we are getting Meta Knight at least)

http://projectmgame.com/en/news/project-m-on-show-me-your-news-7-16 (http://projectmgame.com/en/news/project-m-on-show-me-your-news-7-16)
Supposedly we are getting more info on Demo 2.6 today.

Oh and some changes were made to Link which I'm pretty hyped for as I secondary Link in P:M

(http://projectmgame.com/content/images/news/linkrang.jpg)

Turbo mode was announced for 3.0 though.

(https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQBBxBN1njul9XWf&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FZ92MxCndZa4%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg%3Ffeature%3Dog&jq=100)

Yep, make sure to check this podcast (http://www.twitch.tv/showmeyournews/) at 8PM EST/5PM PST/Midnight GMT for demo 2.6 info.  We got some good stuff for y'all.

whoops, my bad, I was a little hazy on that one, thanks for fixing me on that!



Yeah I'll make sure to watch and let everyone that misses it know what they missed.

Edit*

Project M Demo 2.6 Roster Reveal - Meta Knight Rises! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoEeRtANciE#ws)

For those not watching the stream, Meta Knight was announced, as well as tomorrow being the release date!

Other things talked about so far is that almost every character is getting tweaks, with Lucas, Sonic, Mario, Link, Ike, and Zero Suit Samus getting larger tweaks from what I could gather.

so 2.6 only adds meta knight to the roster?
well, better than nothing, btw, what version would supposedly become the final one? 4.0, 5.0, 200.0 ?

I doubt there'll ever be a final version. At best, the oh-so-advertised "Gold" version, which I assume has all the characters ready for use, as well as releasing the stuff used in the making of P:M to the public and a PAL release. I assume, anyway.

final does mean last after all, so willingly or not, there will be one xD
maybe it's not as good as they want it to be by then, bt it'll still be a final version.

so yeah, how's the team's motivation, with ssb4 being announced and stuff, did it increase the motivation, or lower it?

The fact that they only have 5 more characters left makes me think they are still going to work on it.
I suggest everyone try Demo 2.6 to see that they do still care quite a lot as there are some awesome changes.

So far, I haven't seen many changes for Version 2.6. I'd have to browse SmashBoards and play the game some more.

But I'd like to say this now...

The new Link Boomerang Animations are kinda bad, in my opinion.

http://smashboards.com/threads/stage-changelist-for-demo-2-6.338694/#post-15700463 (http://smashboards.com/threads/stage-changelist-for-demo-2-6.338694/#post-15700463)
I used md5sums to figure out which stages changed from Demo 2.5b. I don't know what's changed in most of them, except SSE Jungle (smaller) and Lylat Cruise (doesn't tilt.)

Too bad there's no Yoshi.  :'(
I main him.

You're thinking as though there won't be any more character fixes after Gold, though, which I don't see happening.

Considering how P:M is, Gold would do said fixes the same way some fighters do their patches.

'cept you don't get an extra character by paying for it.

We're still very motivated.  I personally within the last week have done more animations within this space of time for P:M than I have for a long time.  There's still a lot of stuff we have in store for the fans

Are there any plans to fix up various animations that seem a bit odd? Like v2.6 Link's Boomerang throw for example.

SDo0m. I've got a question for you. How is Zelda countereable? I recently downloaded PM to play with some friends that only play SSBM, and while they handled the mechanics pretty quickly and started doing the things they did with Fox and Marth, they couldn't beat me as Zelda, believing her Side B was too.... Strong. How do you counter Zelda? Where's her downside, because even her A attacks are quite fast and strong.

Also, I found Toon Link to be underpowered. Where does his power lays to compensate for that weak Up B as recovery? I only played for 20 minutes or so, but I felt like asking for when I play again with them.

Correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't tried 2.6 yet, but I think I maybe have an answer to your question about Zelda.

Maybe she still suffers angle issues like in vanilla Brawl and maybe the original SSB Melee. So maybe the characters that can reflect projectiles like Fox's Down B, should be able to handle Zelda well.

I hope that answers the question about Zelda, correct me if I'm wrong.

I love Mario, I defeated Level 9's with ease, even Fox.  Without losing a life. :happy:
~Don't Change Mario, PMBR~

CPUs are nothing, compared to Human Players. :happy:

Nope, not at all.

CPU have... Well, machine like reflexes. But can not adapt as a match progresses like a human...

Side B can be clanked with most attacks whilst it's still 'pulsing' is probably the main thing.  The other being that Zelda, despite being overall very good now, is still light, tall, floaty and slow and although teleport cancels help to alleviate her slow speed somewhat most characters overall have superior mobility compared to her.  Infact Fox and Marth in particular are actually two of her weaker match ups partially due to this reason.

As for Toon Link, he actually has a nifty trick with his recovery thanks to aerial glide tossing (you do an air dodge then a couple of frames later throw your item so it uses the same principle as Brawl's ground glide tossing).  You can aerial glide toss you bomb upwards then Up B into it to restore your Up B whilst gaining some distance.  Here's an idea of what I mean:

Project M - Toon Link Bomb Jump Guide (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S24m-1_WCnE#ws)

Though now generally aerial Up B serves more as a kill move (follow up after a DThrow at higher %).

Project M Roster Reveal - Challenger Approaching! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O41m5WoH6gQ#)

(http://projectmgame.com//content/images/news/royrender.png)

Roy announced, and he looks [censored]ing hype, nice to see my melee main get into PM officially.

So how bout dat Clone Engine?

So Dantarion got the Clone Engine working? =o

100%.  Along with ds22 and other wizards.

The boy is back. :happy:

That render is beyond sexy. It matches the SSB4 style. Who made it? :srs:

Speaking of Clone Engine, will Dant/ds22/etc. release it to us all (like turbo mode, engine lag fix, etc.?)?
Anyway Roy looks awesome (& now for Mewtwo)

My boy. (`:

With a down-air that meteors much more easily, no less.

what


Forget that Roy nonsense, rewind a second.

CLONE ENGINE?

....Okay, you can remember the Roy nonsense now, I know some of you will skewer me for this, lol!

Thany's model. Except the hair. Pik made that.

Pik also textured that sexy beast.

And yes. The clone engine works almost perfectly with most characters.

Regarding public release of the CE...
it is a set of very complex codes which are completely safe in the way we work with it. Only a few people are capable of manipulating it safely, we don't want the public getting confused and start thinking that PM is harmful to your wii and/or save file in any way.

Turbo and everything will be in Project M 3.0

I'm cool with seeing the CE operational, even if it's very particular about how it behaves.

Also, cool to see Roy in BrawlProject M in an official capacity. His new moves look tight, especially that Double-Edged Dance.

Edit: Wait, Roy's in Demo 3?

Yup. He will be in our next big update/release.

Well color me impressed then. Didn't think we'd see any CE stuff until post Demo 3.0, but I'm glad to be wrong.

This is slightly OT, but what's your favorite part of being PMBR (anyone can answer this, if applicable)?

Project M 3.0 is going to be so hype, that my body will never be ready!!!  :o
Tell Dantarion to make 50 clones of himself, send that clone back into the past with the time machine he built 5 weeks ago, and send all 50 of those clones to the past in order to prevent the clone engine from taking so long to be made.  ;)  :laugh:  :D

Are you trying to turn Dantarion into Xehanort? ¦D;

Anywho, hyped for Roy. Hyped for the Clone Engine. Hyped for other possible characters. (Only one in particular that I want) Hyped for 3.0. ¦3

I totally just noticed that one of Roy's moves during his Double edge dance is based on Sol Badguy's gunflame from Guilty Gear...

Color me more hyped >.<

The PMBR is a group of guys (and a few girls) that are really chill and fun to work with. The stuff they can do with Brawl is absolutely amazing. We work on a set timeframe, but it's pretty casual so I never feel stressed with anything I have to do.

OUR BOY IS BACK BABY!!!

so a question on the clone engine,Is the only thing we have to wait on for a public release is to make it more user friendly?

Clone engine? Niiiiiiiiiice. Not surprised it won't be available to the public or anything, but I'm sure that'll come with time.

What I really want to know is how it works. Y'know, the real nitty-gritty stuff. I remember ds22 saying that it would require a lot of things to be moved around and that it would be nearly impossible, so I'm curious as to what changed.

Also Roy yay. But I'm more hyped for a certain purple psychic clone to show up.

My man. I thought I was the only one who noticed.

Thanks for the answer. Was curious about it. I applied a while ago, but didn't make it.

It's one of the best models I've ever seen, I think.

This all makes a great deal of sense concerning the clone engine. Follow up-questions:

* By "perfectly", do you mean it isn't just some convenient exploit that can somehow handle one character? Several can be done?
* If yes to the last question, are more planned? I don't know if it's something you can answer, but it seemed vague enough of a question for it. A few PMBR members have said he is "the first CE character", but we want to know whether or not he's the last, too (although I doubt it).

---

Post Merge: September 19, 2013, 10:25:09 AM

---

Wow, I did not see that coming. I'm obviously not a member but if I were told earlier today that you just became one, I would not be even slightly surprised.

inb4mewtwo

By "perfect" I mean that it has almost no glitches or bugs. The code is extremely stable, and we can clone almost whoever we want. However, the coding is very specific and complex, thus why we haven't released it. Even I don't know how the codes work, and I personally can't make my own slot with a custom character.

At the moment we do not have any further new clone announcements, due to our limitations and current projects we are working on.

That's better news than I was expecting, actually. I'm not really concerned about the public release of the codes so much, but it's great that there aren't any barriers with making stuff. This includes projectiles and the like, right? (inb4 nothing is stopping Mewtwo now)

Kind of expected that, but thanks anyway. Sorry if I/we are kind of grilling you on this stuff. It's pretty darn exciting.

I think our CE depends on a lot of the general PM codes... Which is another reason we won't release it yet. It doesn't work with normal Brawl.
We don't want to cause a lot of people the frustration of crashes due to code and module errors.

This really isn't for me since I'll be playing P:M for as long as I play Brawl, but does that "yet" mean that adaptations are being made? I think a lot of people believe that the codes are and will be P:M exclusive.

Hasn't that Engine been operational for quite awhile now, if you guys had the time to make a fully operational Roy? oô

It certainly looks impressive, but I have trouble understanding what exactly makes it so impossible for non-PMBR users to set it up. If Dant and ds22 have been working for years on it, they should be more than able to explain how they got it to work.

This in particular, I do not understand the logic of. CE =/= PM. If you released it separately, I doubt even half the users would associate it with P:M.

Besides, there's been other supposedly "dangerous" codes. They didn't seem to trigger such backlash in the overall community.

That does make a good deal of sense, at least once there's a version for vBrawl. I think what he's saying is that they will release and explain, but only once they make a version that doesn't need to run alongside other P:M codes.

when i used to have the clone engine leak i found on a pastebin site, i could never get it to work for vbrawl. so i belive its in P:M's main coding or what not instead of just the clone engine code

That's how it's sounding, yeah. Still, how were you able to test it? Don't you need more than just the code to get everything working?

yeah. you also needed .rels. which caused gfx gltiches.

That sounds pretty good, though. I figured that you meant other things went wrong and the character wouldn't play, or something messed up before then. It seemed pretty difficult to change the interface to have more characters (whether in the CSS, CSPS, BPs, result screen, etc), and then you still have things like SFX and other game modes. That code must be pretty darn comprehensive.

the extra slots wouldnt load the icons on screen if i used vbrawl or what not. i made teh .rels myself and they wrked

Wow Roy Is Back and better than ever!Come on my main Mewtwo!

One general PM question:

I noticed that the cpu can wavedash and L cancel is this only level 9?Because I keep losing by a lot so can I take this off?Maybe by making them level 8?

I hope we can at least see some stuff to add Roy to vanilla Brawl, just to have the option. Really impressive work all the same though.

...look in the Vault?

GAH! I really hope this Clone Engine thing works!

I'm going to guess it was a happy mistake that some of the code already in the PM framework just happened to be key components in getting the clone engine to work, as well as some of the other things like character modules and CSS stuff (like the way Zelda/Shiek and the Pokémon are separated).

Buuuut that's a guess, just based on how I read nano's post and what I've seen in PM.

(On an OT note, I would also guess that your current avatar comes from some of emperpep's work. I recognize that art style anywhere.)

Clone Engine, jebus

Any chance of Roy working on the WiFi version of P:M?

More than likely.  The PM-playing community would be in an uproar if something that worked offline and majorly affected play didn't work online.

Finally I can keep Ike and Marth while having my boy Roy.

Then they could just release it with the part that somehow happens to work with it? Call it the "Clone Engine + Separated Pokemon" code or whatevs. I doubt people would really mind.
Unless they somehow managed to weave the CE into the very fabric of P:M, so that there is absolutely no way to have the CE without P:M. But then, even my limited knowledge of Gecko codes tells me that we'd be exiting out of the "happy mistake" domain and entering that of witchcraft. :P

(Also, that is correct. Glad to see a fellow fan of his/her art.)

Possibly? Part of my guessing at their reasoning behind it being so integral to PM is just looking at PM's GCT through Mewtwo's GCT Analyzer. It's just one huge chunk of over 4500 lines of code (whereas, say, Brawl Minus's code is broken up into sections that detail most of what goes on). I can only guess that the PMBR either has their own little tools that make it easier, use a common tool I am unaware of, or they have extreme coders that can read hexadecimal as well as Neo reads the matrix. And woven into the fibers of that impenetrable wall of numbers and letters are parts of the clone engine that could break or not work well if not stabilized by the other patches in the quilt. Or maybe the coders just don't want to release certain parts of their work, since it would probably ultimately be up to the coders themselves whether or not that gets released rather than the whole of PMBR.

But again, take that all with a grain of salt. This is speculation from someone whose knowledge of GCT code is limited to frankensteining other people's hexadecimal paragraphs and hoping to make a cohesive story out of it. I can't even put a PM Fox in a non-PM codeset without him t-posing or freezing because I don't know what they did to make him tick, let alone grasp this whole clone-engine thing.

Also, did I use enough metaphors? 8D

PM Movesets require their .rels and codes in order to work.

lol it actually just looked like most of the codes were unknown. has anyone tried matching known codes to that wall of text? (click edit, copy the code your looking for, find) i know dusty decompiled some of the codes that way but not all of them, theres obviously ones that won't be known till the coders want them to be. mewtwos gct analyzer or gct editor just condenses all the codes it can't read into a single paragraph. even the simple codes like stock modifier can sometimes toss it off balance because everyone can add different values to get different results.

I was wondering, has anyone done any custom Character select screens for brawl? And with this new clone engine does that mean essentially any character could be made and not have to take the place of an existing character?  Also how does the clone engine work? Say I wanted to put a psa over a character that they add via the clone engine like roy, would I just add the psa over his files like I have before or will I have to go through a different process?

It will be the same as modding other characters. The files will be named FitRoyXX if you put skins over our CE Roy.

Is there anyway I could go about adding additional copies of characters to puts psa's over them? I use Scott Pilgrim over Lucas, is it possible for me to add another lucas then add Scott over Lucas i added so I can have both?

Yes. Thats the point of the Clone Engine.

I think what means is to ask is whether or not this is possible to do over the guys P:M is putting in. Like, putting in a Sephiroth PSA over Roy, for example, with SFX and all.

Exactly. I can, say, put PM Fox's fighter files and his .rel in whatever build I have, but that only goes so far without knowing the codes in the GCT that smooth out the kinks.

Yes. You can use PSAs and any file for the character that's cloned

Huh. I honestly didn't expect it to be that easy. My guess is that porting is going to get a lot more common...

But up to how many characters can we clone?

iirc Brawl's CSS can hold up to 50 slots max, but who knows.

So would I just copy the fighter folder and paste it or do I need to go through some extra steps to actually be able to clone characters I want to? Sorry for all the question, I'm new to this and just giddy with excitement for all the new potential characters.

You're gonna need the codes and the .rels. You'll also need to set up the CSS with new CSPs, you'll need the BP's, and everything.

Never thought I'd see the day...

Yep 50 is the max, so maybe we could have 15 cloned slots? I have 49 slots currently with all the gimmick characters and transformations separated, but I would gladly replace those with PSA's.

Question: If I wanted to have 2 Marth's instead of the Sonic/Knuckles, is there a way to mod the EFS system to do that without a new DL?

wrong thread? I assume you ment to put this where its related.

but yes. edit a marth .rel to use knuckles's id and replace teh .rel. it still ahs to be named knuckles

and to keep this on topic, I havent played P:M for awhile, but I still love Pit. His Up smash to Side-B to Up-b is fun. Great job on Pit guys (and gals?)

on the regards of the clone engine, is it possible to add a super character much like Giga Bowser and Wario-man to a pre-existing character. for example (given you haven't given Charizard a final smash of his own) you'll be able to use a character slot for Charizard to swap out to Mega Charizard for a few seconds... much like Wario and Wario-man

so if im understanding correctly, u can now have 50 different CSP slot icons?
because if i remember correctly, cloned characters would copy the csp's of their original base character.


or is roy using Pokemon trainers csp cosmetics? since pokemon trainer is not used in pm...

No, its not possible to switch out characters mid-play via CE and Final Smash editing.

Roy uses his own CSP slots, as well as his other aesthetics.

well isn't that a real shame

They'll probably get there eventually. lol

Hey Nano, P:M is looking great, but what's really left to do now that you've added roy and Turbo mode is being shown off (looks amazing lol)

its been possible

http://youtu.be/3-xRaW8ko6k (http://youtu.be/3-xRaW8ko6k)

Pay attention to our blog for the next few weeks. You will find out soon enough.


Thats not using the Clone Engine though, its your file expansion system thingy, right?

not what I meant, I meant like when Wario uses his final smash he loads in a new character(FitWarioman stuff) not swapping colours, I just was asking if it was possible to set up a Wario to WarioMan like thing for anyone on the cast.

that needs to be refered to in the character's .rel, wario's rel has a reference to warioman, like bowser has it to Gbowser etc.

I will await the blog post detailing the Clone Engine with anticipation. In the mean time, I will plan out several Roy recolors because I can.

Can't wait for the 3.0, hoping for more chracters like Yoshi and Kirby.

Will the cloning engine work for any hacked Brawl or is it just Project M?

ah, thanks for clearing that up for me

yesif u paid attention to the video at the end the character switches psa
so its a work around to what u want
the code would have to be modified to be activated when final smash, and to load the seperate psa

anyways its good to know that roy has his own csp cosmetics now, i think that was one of the major flaws for the clone engine
when will we see this codes?

now after fully watching it i understand, i just watched for abit before, my bad

So the big question I have is, how's Kirby gonna work with Roy? Since he's not in P:M yet it's not something that needs to be thought about yet but I'm curious if it's gonna work okay.

I'm curious to know this as well. Just clone another Kirby hat slot with Roy's name on it?

im guessing the reason for kirby to be one of the last are the kirby hats?

Turbo Tuesday Roy
http://youtu.be/w36i1LkbvYM (http://youtu.be/w36i1LkbvYM)

Awesome. I hope this means we'll get a lot more footage of Roy soon.

I did not think it was possible for mah boy to get any more awesome.

And he just did.

No words can describe how FREAKIN AWESOME THIS! MY BOY IS CRAZY!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!

Will any more characters be added to project M with this clone engine?
 *CROSSES FINGERS HOPING FOR SHADOW YEAHYEAHHIGHLYUNLIKELYBLAHBLAHSHADOWOVERUSEDBLAHB LAH BUT STILL.......seriously project M Shadow would be freaking amazing*

as much as i dont like P:M, I stinking LOVE that turbo stuff! :D

soooo... turbo mode isnt in 2.6? :(

(http://i.imgur.com/HcT37.png?1)
Have you even played Demo v2.6 yet? ._.

Imagine TAS Roy...whats more deadlier?

yes i have, and i didnt see turbo mode...
so im seriously asking, is it there or not. and i am waiting for a serious answer...

It is not in 2.6

ok, thank you, but wasnt it announced for 2.6?
cant wait to get my hands on turbo mode, seems like fun.

It wasn't announced for 2.6.

It was announced for 3.0, which will be our next release.

I wish I had another sd card i could use for PM

#firstworldproblems

lol, Join the dark side. You could probably transfer most things over without a problem anyway.

After watching Roy's video, I would like to ask... In what does Marth excels that Roy doesn't? What differentiates them? I see Roy was given a spike now, too, and a good aerial play, which were Marth's things.

never was a big fan of project m but the roy video looked nice i may jut get it once its dont

Roy's Down-Aerial isn't a spike, it is a meteor. He also had one in Melee, although his combo game didn't really facilitate landing it. Of note, Marth is floatier (suffers less from combos). His ground speed and ground to air speeds are also notably higher, making Roy worse at positioning by a relevant margin. And of course, because of the differing sweetspot systems, Roy has to commit further to his attacks than Marth does. That hasn't changed.

Thanks, Strong Bad. That sums it all up. :)

I need to admit, roy looks pretty sweet.
I am not quite into the ProjectM/vBrawl/Brawl+\- hacks cause I play hacks on normal play but what does turbo mode do?

also, I need to ask but, how do people get selected to the PMBR and why is it so holy? :/

You can tell just by watching the videos...

People apply on their website.

Turbo mode allows you to cancel out of each attack to make some sick combos.

As Albafika said, you gotta fill out an application on SmashMods if you want in to the PMBR.

Looking at the video, and some of the other characters.

I think some of them could uses some new, completely custom graphic models to add more flavor to them. Unless Row has one for Flare Blade, it would be pretty cool to see a custom model for the move's "Slash".

Lucario I think could use a couple custom effect models too. Namely for his Shoryuken and Super Aura Sphere. It would take Project M to the next level in terms of dividing itself from Brawl.

That is, if you haven't proven yourself to have godly modding skills and are abducted into the PMBR like Vaanrose was...
I kid about the "abducting" part. (;

Might I also guess that 3.0 is probably going to come out around November, seeing as Roy is going to be demoed in mid October as a pre-3.0 exclusive on Day 2 of some event?

Awesome job on Roy!
I didn't know that he could be so smexy!

Well, then you don't know much about Roy.

In the game he starred in, all the girls were all over him. Like a boss, he was completely oblivious to it, and yet was still a complete gentleman toward them.

Sorry for being an ignorant, I knew Roy in Melee ONLY (never played Fire Emblem). And he was my favorite character...

Oh boy.

Lol... Didn't know that my "r" have been forgotten (http://i.imgur.com/JxgFR07.png)

 A little clone engine insight

http://projectmgame.com/en/news/clone-engine-blogpost-limits-restrictions-and-possibilities (http://projectmgame.com/en/news/clone-engine-blogpost-limits-restrictions-and-possibilities)

Theeeeere we go, that's what I was looking for. Interesting read. I figured they were using the dummy slots.

Kinda makes me sad that 7 is the limit, and that clones are likely to be favored over adding completely new characters, but whatevs, it makes sense. Looking forward to seeing who else may be added in the future.

---

On a different note, has anyone experienced a "bug" of sorts with Ivysaur's Neutral B? I've noticed that if you're holding B while a time-slowing event occurs (like Donkey Kong's Final Smash), he regains a ton of health in a short period of time.

Not game breaking, but it's there. :1

Thanks for posting that. It's pretty great how they answered basically everything people were asking without revealing any content. It's good to know about the 7 character limit and legal limitations, even if they are restrictions. It lets us know what's possible.

I'm still calling Mewtwo, as the next CE character.

Thanks for the blog post. So the engine works basically how I imagined it would.

Try grabbing someone while time is slowed. Then laugh.

I dub it, "The Wiggle"

Pretty interesting read,I'm still curious though, If the Project M dev team is worried about adding 3rd party characters due to legal issues, then does that mean that a stage like Dracula's castle would need to be cut?

I also find the Sm4sh discussion interesting too, as there is already stuff in demo 2.6 that also appear in Sm4sh, so I'm hoping those don't go away. It really is going to be interesting what the character selection is beyond the likes of Roy and (The extremely likely) Mewtwo.

It does bear to question of, will we see more new semi clones like say Dixie kong or will we get new characters like Ridley? It's very interesting to see what direction the clone engine will cause Project M to go.

Pretty much everything that was also revealed in the fourth Smash game was revealed well after they appeared in P:M, such as Skyloft.

Besides, Skyloft is a completely different stage in P:M, fuction-wise. It's just a certain portion of the Hyrule Temple stage reskinned for a Skyward Sword look and the main island of Skyloft in the background. From what we've seen of the fourth Smash game so far, the actual fighting area isn't even comparable.

Not sure about the Castlevania stage, but it was based on the NES title, so...

I'm just worried about the Castlevania stage since Nintendo doesn't actually own Castlevania, Konami does. And also, the parts used to make the stage were taken straight from Castlevania Judgement... so meh.

What.
Did the P:M team recently receive the visit of a Nintendo official who told them they were doing a cool job?

I understand that there's no point attracting the attention of 3rd parties, but I doubt adding Nintendo characters that haven't already been licensed would change anything.  :-\
If they want to shut down the project, they will. They won't go "Oh hey, they were nice enough to care about licensing issues within our own brand. I guess we'll completely forget about that whole hacking the console and the game thing."

That yellow part. I don't even...

I would imagine it's more of a "they didn't receive a visit from a Nintendo official yet and they'd like to keep it that way" sort of thing.

But I'm not a PMBR member, so that's simply a guess.

I agree with this post so strongly and tried to state the same thing at Smashboards in a different topic, but everyone is too damn paranoid to think straight.

They should just take the chances and try to get away with as much as possible until it actually looks like they have to back it up a bit. THEN they can worry.

This pretty much sums it up.

I was kinda just making fun of the ways it was formulated. You stay in one's good graces only when you already are in one's good graces. If not getting a boot to the head from Nintendo is called that, then I guess Nintendo loves a whole lot of hackers they don't even care about.

Well, I wouldn't exactly say that either. The moment they "have to back it up a bit" will also be the moment when the hammer falls and they don't have to worry about their project at all anymore... :P
I'm just saying that, if it ever does fall, it won't be because of unlicensed Nintendo, but simply because of everything that's unauthorized in the very process of creating and setting up the mod.

Same idea for KCMM, really, except we have 3rd parties to worry about too.

Turbo Mario!
Project M Turbo Tuesdays: Mario (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzhWYNzHyA4#)

Holy [censored].

How was the Dr. Mario magic preformed!? o0o

Even I don't know that. But yeah... he's an alt costume, but uses the Pill and Electric effects.

He isn't a clone.

Now you guys know what us modelers have been up too on the PMBR.

Wait, what, Alt costumes I'm assuming are working with cbliss, but how the [censored] does Doc have his pills...

You [censored]ing wizards

guys

Guys

GUYS

Mario confirmed for Project M!

its an alt
its pretty cool how they were able to transform from regular mario to dr mario, the method i know of does not do it simultaneously
they could probably extend it as much as to change the moveset/psa too(which is possible atm but yet again not simultaneously), but they would have to figure out a way for it only to affect the player fighting, and not other of the same based characters

Nah. He has the same stats. Just the aesthetics are different.

The "transformation" in the video is just an effect for the video. Same replay, different model, edited to look cool in the video.

The model wasn't switched mid-play.

I think I can guess what those silhouettes at the end were.

a ok
well its possible using wiztec's code, but than again characters are sprung and thus will not let them continue a combo
like in the video

I was tricked. :>.>:

Man, looking at this makes me wish I had learned to model earlier.

Geez, I need to apply to P:M.

The amount of awesome reverse-engineering is too great.

Yeah me too...

Sadly for us, it looks like they are  looking for play testers, animators, and coders specifically at the moment.

inb4 Infinite Smash team becomes Project M backroom*

Let's aim for it.

i wish i could apply again

cause i got rejected

i wonder why :af:

I guess I could re-apply (assuming my 3 months since my last application have passed).

But it depends... How are things going for the PSAers of P:M? If PSA is a main priority for P:M recruits at the moment, then it's likely I'll re-apply. If not, then I might wait.

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-951.html (http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-951.html)

Application for PM
If you read through the forum, they are also looking for animators like super hard, so if that's your thing, and you decent at it, I bet you would get in easy enough.

Oh god. The possibilities.

Mega Pokemon

Samus with different suits

Galacta Knight

aaaaggggggghhhhhhh

If I had anywhere near enough time to devote to animation again...I'd probably do that.

Quality animation is majorly time consuming.



And that Mario video was pretty awesome. ↓B-↓Air-↓B-↓Air-↓B-↓Air-↓B-↓Air-↓B-↓Air-↓B-↓Air-↓B-↓Air-↓B-↓Air...
A plumber would know how to spin like a swirling drain...

Nice. Is it possible to change stats?

In case people didn't pick up, it looks like SFX are in, too. His pills made that sound of theirs.

Just to elaborate, this isn't done with cBliss but rather our own independently developed engine that we had pretty much completed before cBliss was released.

Oh crap.

But.

That's what I DO.

Better go finish that PSA so I have quality examples to show off.

I thought you guys would like to see this (courtesy of Mr. Pik)
(http://i.imgur.com/mSdjoWT.png)

I can die happy now.

So I saw Peach's Castle in that vid, will it be in PM permanently?

Thanks for that. Very nice model, and good render. I noticed the Stethoscope moves along with Doc, so that's quite cool

Pik made the model and render. So kudos to him.

I rigged most of it and did all the fun material edits.

The mirror is really shiny with a nice reflection, and the gloves have a sight shine to look like latex.

is it not my model he edited the textures and edited stethoscope?
cuz i can see it on how the part on the pants near shoes textures is with the UVs

He didn't use your model.

It's all his.

Model looks fantastic, and I'm glad you were the one who took on materials. Doc sounds like he's getting all the details he needs.

There's a blogpost coming out soon, right? Those are really insightful. People are really wondering how much you guys are gonna use this, so I hope it answers that question.

There should be a blogpost out sometime, yes

I see you, you sneaky little RSBE-01 hiding out on the pill.

Now that's detail right thurrr.

Haha love the pill in that render. Reminds me of this.

Blue Pill or Red Pill - The Matrix (2/9) Movie CLIP (1999) HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE7PKRjrid4#ws)

Except Doc is putting both pills together and shooting them at your face.

Is there some way you can prove it? I mean, I dunno, I'd say it's hard to back that claim up when you folks decide to make the codeset illegible and keep development private. Heaven forbid some of the neato burrito things be released to the public.

And look at all these creative users ready to desert the hacking scene just to work on "moar Melee".

Well, we do have these two videos showing that we were already capable of adding additional costumes to the game long before cbliss was even released, so there's that.

But now the big question is...

But of course they did. (http://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/jtv_user_pictures/chansub-global-emoticon-ddc6e3a8732cb50f-25x28.png)

wow
u guys have been working on this for some time
its a shame no one has been able to "refresh" the Character Selection Screen automatically by now(for the second video)

I'm curious nano, who else on the Project M team is going to be working on models besides Pik as far as making them?

I love Pik's work, but I highly doubt he is the only one working on models, especially if you guys are planning on doing alts for most every character as well as maintain a huge level of quality.

Render looks great btws, can't wait to see the rest of the costumes that are made.

StarWaffle and I.
I've worked on a few, but it's mostly Pik and Star. I'm their rigging [censored] :p

And there's jiang, but he isn't on KCMM.

I'll keep this thread updated with our work whenever I can.

Cool to see some great dudes working on models.

I really hope we also get some damn good renders from the rest of the alt costumes too, as these things are too great.

This!

So you guys are going to be pretty open about the alt costumes, then? I know the reveal video showed 4 or 5 kind-of-identifiable silhouettes, but it'd be cool to see more.

You will see more in the future before 3.0. We probably won't directly announce any more, but pay attention in future Turbo Tuesdays and other announcements.

And we're going to make renders for all the alts. We use them as the CSPs.

Got it. I figured what you meant was that you'd show us your work on models occasionally (which would mean they're not done yet and obviously not in a current release). I always pay close attention to you guys' stuff. lol

Awesome.

And now we wait for the eventual Fierce deity Link confirmation...

Non-perfect posed CSPs? Ew D:

shadow as sonic alt

We're doing a Wario kind of thing... with the alts being a different pose

So you guys are gonna have recolors for most/all the alts?

Nope. We have limits with a 2GB SD card.

But, will there be alts for every character?



Mighty as Sonic Alt.

Wait, how much is intended to be added? I have cBliss+CSE+P:M2.6b running right now at about a gigabyte. lol

I. WOULD. LOVE. THIS.

See, Nano? Same wavelength.

THE MASSES HAVE SPOKEN.

^This.

That's the plan. We may not have alts for every character by 3.0 though.

You have to keep in mind Roy, and the possible chance for more clones in the future.

We need more CSPs, BP, stock icons, some SFX (Roy/Dr. Mario), and all the moveset data for each character.

That's awesome!

That's true, although I didn't know it would take up that much space...

We also have to take in hitboxes/hurtboxes.

So not all possible alts will be possible.

You guys could probably put a lot in... I use 3 custom builds on one SD (one with all music,characters, and stages replaced) and it only runs me about 800mb/2gb
Personally I would like to see:
Ness have Ninten (earthbound)
Lucas have Claus (even moar)
Marth have Awakening Marth (the Vault model?)
and
Mewtwo to have X&Y (if you ever confirm him  :P )

You know what.
I wasn't normally gonna spring for Project: M, but I ahve a spare 2GB SD card I can use to play P:M (cuz I don't feel like tampering with my setup on my main SD card).

And that Dr. Mario I saw recently. Hoooooly [censored]. Legit. And latex gloves for even more legitness.

Saying 2GBs isn't enough for that might be your personal estimate, but it can't be true. Better re-count the size again, I'd suggest.

Don't know if you guys have been asked this, but are you guys gonna include cBliss in the next build?

…

We have our own alt engine. It's literally been the entire topic of discussion the past couple of pages :V

Well then, I know who I'm putting as my Ness alt (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=31631) in my own copy of P:M.
Even though he's already one of the costume slots in my copy...

I was just asking, dude. I just joined the conversation :srs: