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with the new cloning engine for brawl, I was wondering how many different characters could fit together and still make sense. which characters could be used to best represent the games they are from, while still keeping a sort of variety?.. cloud and sephiroth for ff series..? would it make more sense for sonic to have knuckles and tails playable alongside him, or just shadow, or maybe all of them? who else should be in then? who could be used as a base?.. i have some suggestions, and i recently got a new computer and have been thinking about making hacks... i have a few ideas of my own for specific movesets, but i'd like to start a discussion to hear what the perfect version of brawl sounds like... ....(using brawl minus and project m for inspirational ideas)

Seriously, guys, mention ideas you have... i mean, for example, i haven't even played final fantasy, so i'd appreciate it if you could post any ideas for characters other than cloud or sephi that may belong in the game, and same thing for any games these characters are from.. :P


Existing characters

Requested characters

Well, I'd definitely consider the characters they left out.
Roy, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, Dixie Kong are the only ones I can remember currently.

mewtwo, roy could go in like pm
dr mario and dixie could be alts for mario and diddy

You started off well, and then just fell flat on your face.

That touches on too many variables. If we're adding Shadow, we're going to need to add Liquid to the MGS series who will probably be a "no-weapons" Snake anyway, touching on another important point: If people [censored]ed about clones in the last game, why are they so hellbent on having them back in Brawl? Makes no sense. Likewise, having Tails and Knuckles implies that we'd need Gray Fox and Raiden as well, which... actually doesn't sound AS bad, and the chance of cloning is minimal, but having three characters for one guest franchise (not to mention Sonic as well) for a total of six? Bit too many if you ask me.
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No. If you're going to use a base, use Brawl itself. Never a mod. If you do, not only you're just making a compilation pack (of which there are A LOT in this section of the forums already), but you're making a compilation mod off of someone else's creations, which is kinda [censored] when you make a comp pack with Minus as a base (or +, whatever) and then add everything you like to it, not only defeating the point of the mod but also making you look like a tool when it turns out you didn't actually create any of that content. Using vBrawl itself has a lesser stigma. I mean yeah you're still doing a compilation pack and adding [censored] that you didn't make, but you at least aren't [censored]staining someone else's name. You're still taking credit for [censored] you didn't make though.


The Big Bang Theory isn't funny unless you enjoy making fun of people with autism.

keep in mind that it's not necessary to have an equal amount of characters for each game :P for instance you could end up with everyone from sonic heroes as either alts, or seperate characters, but gamenwatch probably won't need that.. (personally, i wouldn't mind replacing him with, say, paper mario?).. so some characters may need their "sidekicks", like knckles/tails (or raiden or grey fox) whereas some may prefer their counterparts like shadow (or liquid).. but then there are the multiple incaarnations of certain characters, like kiorby, link, fox, or mario, etc... what i'd like to see is multiple clones sharing a character pose slot, like being able to pick young oot link, adult oot link (could just be resizes for those two), and then twilight princess link with his slot, and variety for all of them between their special items and their sword techniques, etc...

and as for using brawl minus as a base, perhaps i should rephrase that: i'd like to use brawl minus as an IDEA base... for instance, the version of link they've made is the best (rather, the most comparable version) to represent link's incarnation in twilight princess... so if possible, i'd like to basically use link as a base to create a new oot moveset, in addition to a twilight princess link, taking inspiration from brawl minuses moveset for him... possibly a skyward sword link as well...

as for toonlink, i'd like for different options between a moveset specifically to represent each of his three games in the windwaker timeline, using different items, and then an entirely new moveset over a clone of iceclimbers to make a fourswords link, with many items from that series...

for fox, i just had in mind a double moveset, one for assault, and one for advent... since so far the idea is to just put together a variety of characters, the one gamma was working on may be able to fill in for this spot...
also to take away a little bit from his being a clone to fox, i was planning on trying to give falco an arwing for his fs, for instance, and to give him a shotgun for his neutral b that shoots three much quicker moving bullets for his neutral special (or maybe his side special :P) and making there be much more endlag, whereas wolf will get a chargeable laser that can shoot a shot about as strong as v brawl samus's neutral B.

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Post Merge: February 01, 2014, 12:01:30 AM

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for certain characters in particular, i want to be able to have just one, more completed version of that character... for instance, for donkey kong, i wanted a moveset with a few ideas from DK64, like the ground pound, and the ground slam he had, as well as the barrel firing from his barrel blast games as a possible upb, then a possible fs that relys on infinite up b's (infinite barrel blasts) while being invulnerable. also, while diddy has the peanut popgun from DK64, i was wondering if the way each of them could work was to be able to use an instrumanetal fs (diddy's guitar in that game, dk's drums) and one fs where they use they're kong barrels (diddy's jetpack and DK's invulnerability)... i was planning on giving diddy a more fox styled neutral B where diddy uses both popguns and 4 peanuts can be on screen at a time like in DK64, with a firing speed between fox's and falco's... also, i'd like the option to have their upBs to be like their "launch pads" from the game... at least from the ground... DK's with that instant blast from the ground, diddy with his tail jump thing that you need to hold the button for could still resemble the input of needing to hold upB to get higher... ... ...i have a lot of these kinds of ideas, so let me know right now if having more options for the characters that already exist doesn't sound interesting.

It sounds good to have extra characters in brawl, but does it work for riivolution?

i don't know yet, tbh. i hope it could work out for riivo, since i use it for my custom packs, but i don't see why it shouldn't work for it... maybe a new .xml for clones would be necessary, but i'm not keen on the details :P
i've been trying to think of a way for this game to be a little like mugen, but i don't want too many characters that don't make sense, so on this page i'm going to try to mention the bare minimum characters that should be included... i'll update the roster list i posted...

IMO a "complete" Brawl would not change anything that's already in Brawl, but only add things. If you change something, it's not exactly Brawl anymore (although, usually, it's better.)

changed the name now. and yeah, it didn't feel right to me either... i think of heard this phrase somewhere before ["building a better brawl"], but i hope it wasn't on this forum :P if it was, i'll think of another name

does anybody know how to change the portrait of characters in extra slots also when I put the hand on the extra characters he only clicks on the original

I for one haven't even tried the cloning engine yet, as i haven't had the time to pick up hack editing since my college classes began. but i'd like this question to be answered, if anyone knows more about this..?

roy, roy everywhere

lol, well actually fire emblem is another series i haven't played... never played any icarus, gamewnwatch, iceclimbers, final fantasy, or rob games... need definite help in those areas... but as far as all mario characters, link characters (thorough knowledge here), metroid characters, pokemon, sonic, starfox, kirby, and pikmin characters go, i've played almost every main title (at least once) for each of these, also including paper mario. i have read, watched playthroughs of, and heard the storylines of the mgs series, kingdom hearts, Megaman and F-Zero, even if i never have owned these games... so as far as the games at the top of this list go, i need suggestions from you all, hopefully with a few references, and i will make sure to read more about the characters you mention and watch as many playthroughs as possible to try to acquaint myself with those seriess... also, you guys are free to put up any ideas for characters you believe are missing from this roster, and bring up any ideas you believe brawl and this roster are missing, such as powerup ideas, moves that you think are missing, skins or anything else you think could, and therefore SHOULD be in here...

ok, put up a possible twilight link moveset (slight change.. mostly specials, but will put in a few more)

so i was playing the old snes today... and was thinking. holy crap! i don't think anyone has made a joe and mac hack, or even suggested it. you can't say they wouldn't fit in with brawl's cast.

a lost franchise:

(http://sydlexia.com/imagesandstuff/caveman/cnin0000.jpg)

i actually am not familiar with that game :P ...but if you'd like to post a possible moveset for these guys, maybe a more modernized skin for them could be made eventually, and i'll copy and paste it in the first post's roster list (with credit to you, for the ideas)

Well for forgotten game series I'm going to suggest Miria from The Guardian Legend.


No real moveset ideas though, bleh.

Edit: ...Well, she would probably be kinda similar to Saki now that I think of it...

their moves would be pretty basic. they wield a club and do melee attacks mostly. any specials they'd have would be the items you can eat or pick up.

here is a play thru of the game you should get an idea of it by the first level

Joe & Mac 2 Walkthrough guia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLpOKjcVDb4#)

special moves would be:
 the special clubs you can grab to add some range to your attacks (seen at 3:22)

a punching move in all directions(seen at 2:39)

various items you can eat in the game (peppers [vertical knock back?], bones [forward knock back?], water [trip or push an enemy back, no damage], seeds [passes thru an enemy with low damage? no knock back]) seen at 1:12

only idea's i can think of for other attacks, but maybe have the ranged clubs on smashes, the punching attack be an attack 100 and  the seeds be standard b attack that shoot at random? (thinking of an old brawl minus link where they did something similar for his arrows to random ice, light, bomb and fire)

those all sound like very possible moves.. were you thinking of the pterodactyl as an up special or final smash?.. (i watched up to 14 minutes, but it's very repetitive)... so far, the pterodactyl seems like it's the best fit for a possible final smash :P ...but is there any "super mode" i missed?.. ....
and here are a few ideas:

neutral A attack would be the punching in all directions move, similar in function to metaknight's

tilt attacks would be the club smack, a little like every character's tilt attack when holding a bat-type item, except can be aimed upward and diagonally as well...

smash attacks could be the club powered up, or that tomahawk , but without the projectiles (an idea here could be that the final smash adds the projectiles to your smash attacks).

shielding animation could copy the guarding stance the enemy cavemen were making (like at 10:25 in the video)

the neutral B moves could definitely use seeds and those "spitting" projectiles... it could work as a neutral B that's a hold charge type move, a little like lucario. basically, you hold b to start it, and joe will pull his hands up to his mouth as if he's swallowing something, like in the video. if you tilt down before releasing B, it will shoot water at an angle towards the ground in front of him (like lucas/szerosuits' down smash trajectory) and trip  foes... (think like PM's squirtle's bubble/down B as a reference). if you just tapped it, it would shoot seeds, which are faster, but not as powerful, but because it wouldn't need to be aimed, you should be able to shoot them fairly quickly, repeatedly, a little like fox's blaster, and they can go through one enemy (so potentially can hit two people standing beside each other, but would stop at the second one). then of course tilting up would be the last input and the last projectile which would be the peppers. the peppers would hit the foes at a near vertical velocity and would be the most powerful out of the three...

the side B could be the bone throw, which could be a true projectile that keeps flying in one direction and can be angled and/or smashed like link/toon link's boomerang side B. this projectile would have a bit more startup than the other B moves, but would be a strong attack with the strength and knockback of a decent aerial attack... this could be used for either ledge guarding or preventing recoveries.

up B could be the pterodactyl lifting you, like snake's up B, except when B is pressed while holding the pterodactyl, it will spit seeds... maybe it will require being controlled, more like pit/ROB's current upB, but i'd still like that feature of being able to spit seeds with the pterodactyl while it's out...

i can't think of any ideas for the downB, except either plucking out peppers (which would be redundant if we went with the aforementioned idea for the neutral B), or eating mutton, like the ones he finds on the floor... maybe if we went with the mutton idea, it would work similar to wario's down B where you need to wait a certain amount of time to get a "charge" and be able to eat one... ....can't think of any other ideas :?

i actually like the mutton idea, would suit them very well. another down b idea could be bashing the person into the ground like the blue robed cavemen. there is one somewhere in the first stage at 1:22. it doesn't show him hitting it, but if you jump on them or smack them with the club they get pounded into the ground.

there are actually several different dino's you can ride. a triceratops that spits fire, pterodactyl spits seeds, and a water one (can't think of its name) that spits water. i think if you were going to put any of them in the game the pterodactyl would be best tho.

alright, trying to add characters to my brawl minus pack... i'll eventually post a link to a version, but only in this topic, not the forum (unless it gets requested by enough people)...

for now, i'm putting in scott pilgrim, ridley, and cloud... i'm having a little trouble getting the "module editor v 3.3" to work, but it's just about the last thing i need to get working before i can put them in... .... anyway, yeah, i'll also put up a forum for some premade-bundles, if you guys feel too lazy to make your own or like my packs enough that you'd prefer to just vote on certain characters and download that pack... .... so yeah, when i put up that forum, basically vote on what hacks (that are already on the forum) you want to be bundled in together in either brawl minus or vbrawl, and i'll put them together with brawlEX so you can keep the other characters... ....i'll eventually get back to this, buuuut... for now, i'm going to try to hone my skills at using PW's new clone engine...