Kitty Corp Meow Mix Forums

Hello, crazyhandmasterhand here! In case anyone is wondering about how this Lucina PSA is going, it is going slowly but surely, in relation to tweaks and rebalancing. Also, it is not quite possible to implement Lucina into Project M unless directly replacing Marth, so that's unfortunate.

Her BrawlEx slot is also being worked on by me, based off of what Kitsu-chan already had given me, so thanks for that! I'm trying to fix glitches alongside the other tweaks (Aether glitch). I am likely going to update the PSA tonight or tomorrow just for a preview of what tweaks have been implemented. To anyone who helped me with this project, just give me a PM if you want to help me test the changes out!

That's a summary of what's going on so far. There are a few other surprises in store for this PSA in the future as well!

07/23/14
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Current Credits
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Collaborators:
crazyhandmasterhand
Nao-chan (Animations/Move Properties)
Kitsu-chan (Animations/BrawlEx Slot/Exalted Slash)
Revan (Animations)
Captain Falcon (Coding/Move Properties)
JamieTheAuraUser (Move Properties/Voice Rips/Clean-Up)
Albafika (Character Model)
Vert092 (Character Model)
Shun_One (SSB4 Sword Slash)
Tulat (Holy Slash Alt Texture)
Thany (Animations)

Extra Credits:
Dragon-FlyWolf10 (Animation Clean-Up)
ShinyMammoth (Animations/Move Touch-ups and Tips)
SJS (Character Textures)
Mr. Me (Direct Playtesting)
Project M Team (Animations)
Cloud Strife PSA animators (Animations)
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Lucina V2.0 =~ Current Progress: 100% Done! Released on the Vault! ~=
Here's the link to the PSA!
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=204448 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=204448)

If you need some help here and there ill see what I can do.

Since you left the link out... her transition from entry to idle animation is funky. She goes into Marth's original pose into the new one, without any sort of animation, it just jumps to the idle animation. I can't help with it, but maybe she needs a new entry? Or an edit?

Thank you, I appreciate it :)
Ah right, I forgot to mention those in the top (along with the Jump Animations). Yeah she definitely needs a new entry animation. Marth's may as well be placeholders at the moment.

This was the idea I had for her new Final Smash. I have the first frame for each part of the attack posed in their own chr0 file already. I just need to work on animating it. Also I cleaned up the Wait1 animation again. Some of the bones transitions were off, so I fixed them. I'll send you the new one.

Also I like what you're planning with her moveset. It looks good, I'll test it out and see what I can fix for you. I use BrawlBox to edit my PSA's though. So if that's a problem let me know.

Ah, there it is. Yeah, that sounds really cool! If you can find a way to make it work, then more power to it!

I will try my best. Also edited the last post with more info.

Thank you, I'm glad you like it so far. And no, that's no problem. I use BrawlBox and Project Smash Attacks for PSA work myself. Thank you for the assistance, it is much appreciated!

Are there other tools/methods toward doing PSA work anyhow?

Not that I know of.

Anyway, I'm starting on fixing some immediate issues with what you have so far, Like her sword not showing up during her Win3 animation. Also I'm fixing the timing of her audio, when she speaks to match with some Vis0 animations I already created for her, so it looks like what she's actually saying. I'll see if I can do some minor touch ups on some of her animations as well, then send it back to you to see what you like and don't. Also, you don't have to shrink her model the way you did in the Fit Motion. You could just edit her overall size with the PAC file instead. That's what PM did for Roy to make him appear shorter. I can do that for you if you want. I noticed it was a little off from my most recent version of it. I see you scaled down her HipN bones to 1,0.95,and 1.

EDIT: I just got an idea. If I can get Lucina's Final Smash to be like her Critical Aether, I might make it so that the move heals her a little bit like in the game. I think it was 25% of the damage dealt is what you receive in return, but I'm not sure on that yet. I need to see it's stats again to make it faithful to her in game use.

I'm downnn. I just downloaded your beta. I'll try working on some of the animations you listed that you needed help with on the op. I also noticed some animations that dont transition to the wait1, shall I do those too?
Also there are some other tools for specific things but you can do most things with just BB. Some people prefer PSA but BB is so much easier to use, for everything. lol

That will definitely take a load off of my shoulders. Also if you do some of the transitions, would you mind sharing them with me, since I use that Wait1 anim anyway? Actually I have an updated Wait1 anyway that I was gonna send him I might just give you that as well to work off of.

Cool with me, I'll use your wait1 if that's what's being used for the psa.

It is but the last one I gave you with that Marth PSA wasn't the newest one. Hold on I'll put up a link for you both to DL it for this PSA.


EDIT:Alrighty here it is. It also has the PAC with the small edits I made so far.

Much obliged to the both of you. If everything goes well, I should be able to release her sooner than expected at this rate!

Also sure Revenant, feel free to make the existing animations loop to the oncoming Wait1. There MAY be a couple of animations that will go through changes (Down Smash comes to mind) later on down the line, but most will stay the same from here on out :)

No problem, any way I can help I'll gladly offer my services. I am the Collab Assassin for a reason you know.

Gotta earn your keep lol


I'll also post a DL with all the animations I work on, as well as a review of what I think of Lucina in her current state. I will be talking mostly about moveset related things with the review.

Hum excuse me to react to this post but, according to the informations I have, if Lucina does Aether, the first strike is the one that heals her, and it heals her to an amount of 50% of the damage you inflicted with that hit. And since you talked about critical, a critical hit does triple damages.

Anyway, I'm truly happy that you help crazymasterhand, it's so nice of you, you have all my sympathy! I can't truly help you unfortunately, excepted maybe for testing or collecting informations on the way she is used in the game (statistics wise). So if I can help you with this, I would be happy!

I can PSA it if need be.

Hey MasterHand, I'm looking at Lucina's up smash right now, and it seems that you have her ending in a fall animation. Is she supposed to end the attack in the air?

It WAS initially an air attack, but I changed it to her Up Smash later and never really finished transitioning. She's supposed to remain on the ground though.

Okay cool, I just wanted to make sure before I messed anything up lol

Thanks for the info. I had a feeling I was wrong. It's gonna be a two hit move anyway so the first wont be that powerful as to not make it broken. It'll be used to stun the opponent for the next strike. And thanks for the support, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks man. If I have any trouble with it I'll send it your way to see if you can.

Glad to see this is being done. I'd assist on PSA'ing, but school is keeping me busy. :-\

Can't wait to see what you guys do!

She works well in Project M, too. Which is cool and awesome! It feels like she belongs in PM.  :happy:

Hey I started making some animation adjustments, but I got way distracted with her Up Smash. For a while I tried making the original one transition into the wait correctly, but for whatever reason Marth's bones were giving me some problems when I tried to move them. With that said I just animated a new one from scratch, but i made it a really similar attack. What do you think?

I'll post a motion when I get more done.

Damn! THAT IS AWESOME!! Very well done man.

Right now I'm going through all the animations that CHMH made and resizing her back to normal and re-translating all the animations to where they should be. It was the HipN bone in every single anim. This will take a while, but I'll get it done hopefully by tomorrow.

That IS a pretty awesome animation. Definitely keep that!

Also Heavy, I admit I resized her on purpose for the fact that I kind of figured it'd make sense for her to have a smaller stature than Marth. If it's any point of comparison, take the current Chrom and have default Marth there with him and they are almost the same height, haha.

Regardless, I guess it wouldn't be too big of a deal if you re-resized her though. I planned on a Marth-sized version of the moveset too as is later on, heh. I still remember the universal changes I made for the HipN bone by the way. Her proportions were changed to 1, 0.95, 1 (X, Y, Z), respectively and I changed her original Y Translations for HipN by -0.55.

Yeah I noticed. This is gonna take a while for me to finish up. I just got done with the 34th anim out of 296.

Like I said earlier, don't know if you saw it or not, but you can scale the model size down an easier way by going into the .Pac file with BrawlBox and going under the attributes section, then scroll down to size. That's definitely a quicker way to go about it. You just need to know the correct size to change her to. I can test it for you so you don't have to.

EDIT: Okay where I have her now, she should be shorter than Marth, but taller than Roy. Roy's height is set to 0.9 of Marth's original size, Marth is of course 1, and Lucina is set to 0.975 right now. I could make her down to 0.95 to see if that's better or not. I think it's an appropriate size for her. She's small, but not like tiny or anything.

Awesome I was hoping you would find it sufficient. I should be ready with a motion and a review by tomorrow.


I agree, this way is the most efficient. If you do it in the attributes you don't have any resizing issues when being grabbed.

Also heavy, can you give me that motion once you finish the bulk of the animations, pretty much the ones that I would be editing. I'd say from the Wait1 to the throwns should be good for now. That way we aren't fixing the scaling twice for things.

I must be more lost with BrawlBox than I thought, lol. Where is the attributes section?
Eh, answer that when you can, heh.

You two are definitely going above and beyond for this if you're going through every individual animation. Thank you very much for all of this help again! Oh and sure Heavy, feel free to test away with the resizing. More testing is always good ^^

Definitely agree on the size thing. Roy wasn't very tall compared to Marth in Melee and Lucina seemed to be a bit on the taller end of the female children in Awakening. 0.95 would probably work I'd think *nods*

Yeah sure. But he rescaled all of it. Which means changing the scale of the HipN bone back to 1, and re-transitioning it back to how it should be on every animation. If you do half and I do half it'll go much faster. Unless that's what you were saying. So far I've gotten down to SquatWait. I'll work on as much as I can tonight, then send it over. If I get to the halfway point I'll get it to you.


The Attributes section. If you open your PAC file, click MoveDef_FitMarth, then Sections, then Data,It'll be the first thing under Data. Click Attributes then scroll down in the window that pops up until you reach Size on the left side of the window. You'll see it bunched with Weight, and Size on Results Screen. It's pretty close to the top of the list.

Hope that helped. Also I decided to go with 0.95, because I saw that the PM guys lowered Marth's initial size to 0.975. Now she should be just right.

Wait, my bad I should have clarified better. I just wanted your motion so when I went in and did any animation fixes, particularly anything ending with the wait1, it would already have the proper scaling. I was just doing it as I went after I read that you were fixing the scaling.

Oh, Okay sure. That's fine, I can do that. Still It'll take me some time to get down to those.

@CrazyHandMasterHand: Are you gonna keep the running animation that you have on her now? I'm pretty sure the one I gave you is closer to how she would run in-game. Unless it wasn't changed from Marth's original.

It definitely does lol. I have had to do that one too many times now. I will just keep doing it as I do animations until I get yours.

Well start from the other end so you're not doing what I'm already covering. At least to make it faster for you.

Lol alright.
Oh, and I wanted to say I can make the motion smaller to fit more complex animations and whatnot. Once your done with that I can see what I can do to make her motion smaller.

That would definitely help, when I get to animating her FS it won't go over limit that way.

You're really working as a team as I see HeavyD88 and RevenantGenesis, thank you very much! With you two, I'm sure Lucina will be really good! I look forward to her!

And your animation RevenantGenesis, it was made from scratch but it was really well done! Good job! It truly makes Lucina graceful I think!

Oh, HeavyD88, few informations for you since we talked about it, you said that you won't make the first hit of the final smash (Critical Aether) too powerful, of course as it is the first hit that heals Lucina in game. The second hit is the one that inflicts the most damages as it ignores half of the ennemy's defense. (or resistance if you have Lucina as a mage but you won't put a reclass system on her right,or make her use a Levin Sword? Ha ha ha!)

Nah. I'm pretty sure CrazyHandMasterHand is going more for a lord class for her. And yes the first hit is weaker because Sol just gives you HP, where as Luna, the second hit cuts their defense down by at least half, or like you said just ignores it. I was thinking that maybe the first strike could do 30%, giving you 15% in return. Then the Second strike dealing around 60-70% maybe. A total of 90-100% damage.

Yeah yeah, the thing about resistance was kind of a joke don't worry.

Hum, the healing don't seem too excessive and reflects how she is used in game, very good. And a total of 90-100% damage? Interesting, a very powerful final smash in term of damages, but about the knockback, do you have any idea? Because, I think it needs to be balanced so if she deals high damages, maybe the knockback won't be so high in order to blance this final smash.

Why not 30% first hit and 45% second hit? Giving it 100% damage and ohko isnt fun for the person getting hit by it (and not many, if any, fs's have that much damage), giving it 100% damage and drastically low kb isnt fun for the person using it.

It'd be acceptable if it did 100% damage and ohko if it didnt heal, but since it can, I'd suggest lowering the damage of the second hit by 1/2 and preserve the ability to ohko.

I know there's the "but its not true to the game" and you'd be right. But it's more important for it to be fun as opposed to 100% true to the game.

Thanks for the input guys. I'll figure it out.

Marth's Critical Strike is a OHKO and his only does 60%. So I'm thinking maybe it wont be a OHKO, but still have decent knockback, to counter balance the healing she's receiving. Granted it's not a large amount she's getting back but it's enough to make or break a match for those who use it. That's if they're good enough that is.

Also the reason I made it hurt so much was because it's her Critical Aether. Not just Aether. Her critical version is pretty ridiculous when you use it. It's practically an insta-kill unless it's someone with really high defense. I've seen it in action so many times, like way too many times, that I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing with it.

A little off topic, but the most that I've ever seen her do with that move was around 345 HP. The only reason I got that much out of it was because 1. the enemy had Miracle, and 2. She did a critical strike on both hits.

I completely understand that it's her critical Aether, but you can't always let the original game dictate how she should play here.

For example, Link's DAir Stab is an instakill in TP no matter how much health they have left, but in Smash it'll only kill them at a certain amount of damage (granted it has good KB and damage, it's not instakill, which is a reason that I believe the Mortal Draw wasn't added to the game).

You need to strike a balance between how it was like in the original game and how to fit it in Brawl.

And sometimes you have to sacrifice something. Let me give you a real example. The Jaffar/Assassin hack I'm working on has to have absolutely terrible base damage on his attacks and will rely on crits to do double/triple damage.

But in FE (at least for me), Jaffar had high enough Attack to not only take people out with crits, but with his basic attacks as well.

If I gave Jaffar normal damage and the ability to crit, then he would be way too overpowered and it'd end up being 4 people picking Jaffar every game.

Let me sum up all of this.

HeavyD88 suggests that this final smash does 30% for the first hit with an healing of 15%, and the second hit would deal around 60-70%, which would make a total of around 90-100%.

Drogoth suggests that this final smash keeps this first hit ideas, but the second hit should deal around 45%, which would result in a total of 75%. But it should also be an instant KO, like Marth.

Ike's Final Smash which is I think one of the most powerful final smash in term of damages and which is also Aether, deals around 78% at most. However it has a KO possibility, not as much as Marth's of course but still.

So if we take into account Drogoth's suggestion, we should have a move that is rather close to Ike's Final smash in all aspects, excepted for the instant KO, which is Marth's aspect.

Besides, don't forget that the second hit, deals damages as if half of the opponent's defense is ignored. Knowing this, we can deduce that the second hit is stronger than the first hit, but not to the extent of being the first hit multiplied by 2. This is what the skill tells us. So, maybe putting the second hit damages a little down would be a good idea, in order to be more faithful to the game fire emblem awakening, in order to balance Lucina, and also in order to be more faithful to Brawl. Of course, you also have to decide in what way this move would be activated, would work, because if this move is rather easy to place, like Ike's, it doesn't need to be an instant KO like Marth.

Well, I think we now have a good view of the situation.

75% total sounds fine to me. I was just saying how powerful it was. If was gonna do that, I'd make her do around the example I gave you. But obviously that's way too OP. So I will compromise with both of your ideas to make this as good and balanced as possible.

If I can make you a suggestion HeavyD88, before working about it, wait CrazyMasterhand. I think he's the one you need to hear out about this.

Yeah I know. He already gave me the go ahead with the animation, but naturally I'd want to get his input on the actual PSA side of it.

I'll see what he thinks about it once he gets on.

Hmm, idk if you were playing on Lunatic+, but I don't remember doing that much damage to anyone as a Lord class. :P
Sarcasm aside, Its a FS, Balancing really doesn't come into consideration unless you are trying to make it kill everyone, everywhere. If it hits one person, feel free to have it simply kill them. It's only fair with people like Marth, and Ike doing it, and people like Sheik and Zelda almost one hit KOing you every time, with the possibility of hitting multiple people, through walls.
Then you got your general PSA on the vault.
Gets the Smash Ball.
Runs to the center of the stage.
Final Smash Activate.
BLAAAGGGGAAGAGAGASHHHHHHHHHHHH. Everywhere.
Everyone dies...
Then Spawns in and jumps the PSA.

Congrats, you just described Zack and Genesis' final smashes :P

Lol. As long as you can shield it or something its normally okay.

Sounds awesomely hilarious.

I'm almost done with Lucina's HipN transitions. I also made a new Side Smash based on the pose CHMH made for the start of it. I'll post a gif soon. Hopefully it looks okay. This would be my very first original move that I created.

It's kinda slow, but you could always add a Frame Speed Modifier to fix that.

EDIT: Okay here it is. Tell me what you guys think. I didn't do the transition back to Wait1 yet, but I've been working on this a little too long now so I'm gonna move back to finishing the HipN bone thing.

A beautiful animation, but two things:

The hair goes through the cape at a moment, but I suppose you can't do anything about it, right?

And there's something that I find a little odd, why does she move her left arm like this in the same direction of the sword, it seems strangely useless. I would understand if this arm was moved in order to hold her sword with her two hands, but here it's not the case, it's odd... Unless it's what she does in the game, if it is the case, then I can't make any objection.

I made her arm pushing against the back of her sword as if to add more force to the stabbing motion. Like I said I used one of CHMH's Side Smash Start frames as reference when making this so that it flows better from what he had in it's place. Which was Marth's Shield Breaker animation.

It's not a move she uses in game, hence the "original move" statement.

Oh and her hair is rigged to her head, so it doesn't move.

Ah, I see! Now I understand now that you tell me, I didn't think it was pushed against the back of the sword but now I understand. Clever, very clever! I like your way of thinking! :laugh:

Granted it is hard to see from that perspective, but that's what I did. I was really just using what was given to me, and a little imagination as well. I'm glad you like it.

It's really up to CrazyHand though.

If you want me to edit the timing of the attack so you don't have to mess with frame speeds as well I can fix it no problem. If you wanted I could make it go to the Wait1 too. I'd understand if you didn't though.

Actually I'd love it if you did. Saves me some time to finish this stuff. I'm almost done. I have like 3 more to do and I'll send it on over to ya.

Also, what are your thoughts on the animation? Since your so much better than me at doing them.

Its pretty good so far. Aside from the speed, there are only a couple things I can point out, and they should be easy fixes, and they're also easy mistakes to make. Tell me if you don't get what i'm saying. It's kind of hard to explain animation stuff lol.

The first being: You see right when Lucina goes to stab the opponent? Rather than the sword being on a straight path she kind of dips the tip of the blade downward before reaching her full extension. I would try to make it so when she winds her sword back, she shoots it straight forward.   
The second being: When she slides back after attacking, she needs to do more of a step back. This is actually kind of hard sometimes. If you want I can do that because I am going to be putting the Wait1 in anyway.

 That makes sense. Thanks for the info, and yeah backstepping or just stepping into place is hard enough for me. I'll try and straighten out the strike before I send it.

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Post Merge: February 28, 2014, 04:10:27 PM

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Okay I just got done editing my half of the HipN bone. Also fixed up the beginning of the Side Smash. The Dropbox Link on the first page should take you to the new one now. It's the second to last post on page 1.

If the servers would stop being such a piece of crap, this would be much easier.

EDIT:I fixed an issue that I missed in the .PAC file. So if anyone already downloaded it prior to now please re-download to get the fixed version.

Hey there! Sorry, I was a bit busy earlier today. I had some guests come over to my house xp. I also still have homework from college to do tonight, so I'll be in and out for a few hours or so.

Right anyway Heavy, to address your animation, I definitely like the Forward Smash animation a lot. Thank you for that! I was always reluctant to edit that move just because I am not fantastic with animating (down smash is evidence of that, haha). It helps so much to have you and others on board with this! I did most of the stuff for 1.5 by myself, so that limited me a lot back then, heh.

As for some stuff on PSA-ing, I read up on the idea posted here for the Final Smash. I think that 75% damage total sounds pretty good as far as damage output goes! Probably does not need super fantastic knockback though, on the account of it already healing her for the first strike. Her Final Smash will be pretty good with that already.

I think I covered most of the stuff discussed on here... oh right! Was that issue with the .PAC file the fact that it could not be opened in Project Smash Attacks or was that just me?
If it was just me, maybe I'll need a different version or something.

The issue had to do with SFX that I added. I'll test it tomorrow to see if it messes up on me as well. I've been up for like 32 hours today working on Brawl stuff, so I'm gonna head to bed now. I'll catch up with you tomorrow man. Also really glad you like that animqtion . it took me quite a while to make that. Genesis will finish it for me when he gets the time. It just needs to smoothly switch to the wait1.

Ah thanks. And 32 hours... oh man. Yes, definitely get some sleep. Putting in long hours like that will take a toll out on you!
As for me, I think I'm heading to bed as well. It's been a long day of assignments and family gatherings and whatnot for me today, haha.

First off, if you save a .pac in BB, you cant use it with PSA.

 I like the fact that you can't seem to figure out why you like the up smash so much. Haha.

Also I had an idea for Lucina's Neutral B. I used PM Roy's Side B 4th hit as her N B. He still jumps and it actually looks pretty close to how she does it in game as well. I'm using it myself.

The next thing I work on will be her FS. But for now I think I'll take a much needed break from hacking today.

Lol
But that could be pretty cool, but I think if it's going to be changed it should be a custom animation. Especially if i'm gonna make it go back to the wait1. Making a swapped animation go into the wait cleanly is almost as hard as making one from scratch imo. I am having a incredibly hard time making her sword correct currently. It looks fine in BB, but in game her sword twitches after the attack because of the pass frame for some reason. I'm having an especialy hard time with your side smash, but she is stepping back correctly, it's just the sword problem.
Also, with her FS. Before you start animating it, we need to figure out how the attack will work codding wise, because Marth doesn't have a type of special throw like Ike does for his FS, so the attack cannot work the same.
The few options I can think of are time manipulation or stun hitflags. That or figure out how to give Marth a custom special throw, which requires hex i'm pretty sure.
I forgot that Mammoth and I had a hard time making a fs like that work right.

I got it to work for Heector without special throws ;)

You can do the FS in two animations, the initial swing that heals, and then the jump back and final slash.

To make it more fun, I could make it possible that the second hit will happen even if the first one misses. Make it have a "Gotcha!" moment.

Also, I don't believe Ike's fs can be considered a special grab if the data for where they fly is in the stage itself :/

Sounds like it's gonna be boss! Can't wait for the update. :3

Honestly I was just gonna make an extended FinalEnd where, after she dashes, she does Sol, the first hit to heal. That would have a stun effect. Then jump backward and lunge forward to finish them off. I was gonna make everything myself. The FinalStart, Dash, and End animation from scratch.

The issue with the sword is probably it's rotation for both the animations. The SwordN, and RHave bones are tweaked. I probably just should've used one of those instead of both. You could just delete the rotations on the RHave bone and try to rotate the SwordN bone to match where it was. That should make the transition a bit easier to make.

I updated the Dropbox link on the first page. It has the New SepcialNStart, Loop, and End for both air and ground versions. Revenant if you could take a look at those and see if you could clean up the transition for the grounded End animation, it might actually work a bit better. I kind of attempted to do it so at least you have something to work off of.

How do you change that. I've been wanting to, but don't know where to even start looking.

I'm not sure how your Hector's fs works, but its not something cheesy where hitboxes keep them in place or something right? I'm an animator so I dont know much of codding anyway. Also I was just calling it a special throw as a place holder, what else would I call it?


That's normally not a problem. Each swordsman I have worked on use both SwordN and RHaveN bones. Admittedly Marth is extra retarded. But yeah I was planning on completely deleting the swords rotations from the animations where I'm having problems, and just redoing it myself. I hope that works though.
But I'll take a look at your motion.

Yeah I know how ridiculous he can be that way. But yeah just deleting the rotations should work. Hopefully those SpecialN animations will work out as well. I think they fit better.

If you couldn't tell from my animations already, I'm not a big animator. So no, I wouldn't do something cheesy like that. Ain't no one got time fo' dat.

I guess you could call it a special cluster[censored]. Only thing that really makes sense when you see what you can and can't do with Ike's final.


What you could do is make a completely new animation. Lucina starts from her wait, then she transitions into the healing slash and then the animation ends right there. Don't make it transition to Wait 1. Instead, make another animation where she jumps back/does whatever and does the second slash/whatever is left of her Final and then finally transitions to Wait 1.

The biggest problem I might have is the fact that Marth uses RA Bits in his specials while almost everyone else (if not everyone else) uses Change Subaction. But it's rather straightforward after working with Roy, so no biggie.

We've all got our strong points :P With that said, why cut the two attacks into two animations when they could just be one? Which would be easier to animate.

I hear RA bits and [censored] and go full retard lol

There's no reason not to do it in one animation.

It just sounds cool when you say animation over and over. I'm pretty sure you know what I mean.

Lol pretty sure I do
Anniiimmmaaaatteeee
But the reason would be ease. Seeing the whole thing in one fluent movement would not only give more of a sense accuracy when it comes to movement speeds, but save you from finishing one animating, using copy paste on a new animation, then going from there. In fact, even if I know an animation is going to be cut because of how the attack needs to be codded, I will still start it as a single animation for both of those reasons.

This is what I was gonna do, got some pics to help me out here.


She'll keep the FinalStart to Dash that Marth has, and then once she reaches an enemy, or you press B, she'll initiate the FinalEnd part of it just like Marth would. The FinalDashEnd I'm not going to do too much to. Maybe just change the first frame to match her new dashing position.

Also I might need some help coding the first hit to only heal if she strikes an enemy. So an If Hitbox Connects statement kinda thing.

That was my idea but feel free to critique it as much as you want.

Do you want Lucina to dash across the screen like Marth does or do you want her to go a pre-defined distance and perform her attack?

I wanted her to dash like Marth. It'd give her a bit more range.

I don't think the dash would fit personally.

Lucina would fly across the screen while the two slashes themselves would be slow in comparison. It'd feel a little "jerky" if you know what I mean.

The dash only goes so far anyway. I mean I know you can edit it's distance, but normally he only goes about the distance of Bridge of Eldin, maybe 3/4 of that stage so I don't think it'd be that bad. She runs up to her enemy when doing it anyway. I don't see how it wouldn't fit.

It's not the distance that's the problem, it's the speed. Making it too slow wouldn't make it fun to use. That's why I propose a set distance. You could make it as fast as you want, but with a set distance you'd have that restriction.

I'm not sure I exactly understand what you're describing, but what I see is that you run up a bit and hit, then jump back and slash forward and go through the opponent and go across the stage.

I propose that the first healing slash would have relatively low distance gained, but the second more damaging hit would have much more.

Yes, she would dash across the screen, for however long the dash lasts, strike her enemy once reaching them, stunning or dizzying them. Then jumping back and slashing through them and anyone else in her way.

The first hit wont go as far as the second one.

But Lucina still flies across the stage to do the first healing hit.

When you say the first hit won't go as far as the second is pretty much pointless if she can dash across the screen.

What I'm assuming you want to happen is the initial dash foward, then the first slash hits, jumps back and then slashes through them hitting anyone in her way.

She needs to have drawwbacks for being able to heal and then KO not just one person, but multiple. Having the long range dash will be too overbearing to go against.

I'm not against the dash. I'm against it being Marth's FD length version as opposed to someone making the dash animation go forward 50 or something units on the z axis to perform her first hit and then 100 units through the opponent(s)

Poppin in to drop some .gifs

I've also made several other changes, I just feel they weren't .gif worthy (or I was just too lazy)

Damn dude. Very nice job with those. And thanks for fixing up mine, it did need some fine tuning.

The dash attack (at least the pull back) looks a lot like P:M Roy's side tilt ._.

Nice job, though.

Thany's Roy's dash is based off of Eliwood and ends with him spinning.

Trust me. :srs:

Still, it looks good either way~

Definitely, top notch.

In my defense, I am only cleaning animations that are already there, excluding the Up Smash. Thanks for the feedback though guys.  :kdance:

The only animation I have a problem with is legs in the up smash. At the very end when she's shuffling to her wait. I don't know what you could do to make it better... maybe have less movement? Not sure what to really critique about that, but you can probably figure it out.

More right leg right? must have been one of the edits I made because it seems the old one doesn't do that. I'll have a look.

No... more like left leg lol

It's so minor that you probably won't even notice it in the middle of a fight (unless you're playing at like 1/4 speed).

Hmm, you make me question your eye for detail lol. I did modify the left a little but it was the right leg that was more messed up. I'll post a .gif after a cig.

I mean, I can understand the fidgetting in the right leg as she's landing down on it after spinning. But the left leg shouldn't have a reason to.

I just "assumed" that you might, you know, regain your balance or something lol

Okay so to avoid any confusion. Lucina attacks, spins, steps with her right, then slides her left back into her wait position almost taking a step, using her momentum from the spin to do so.

Again I marvel in your artistic talent. Very well done. It looks amazing.

Instant follow! Also a question: Is Lucina V2 going to be completely different from Lucina V1.5 (with just some of the same moves) because of the model change? I'm pretty pumped up for this too, seeing as how I played V1.5 and loved it. ;D

Hey Solar, I'm gonna work on those CSP's tomorrow alright. I took a break from hacking today.

Oh that's totally fine. Take your time and relax! ;D

My internet has been wonky lately... I didn't even get to see all of the new posts until tonight, heh. Which I must say, "WOW! Lot's of new posts!" xp
Big response post incoming...

First of all, thank you very much Revenant for all of the feedback on the test run. I'm glad you enjoy the playstyle! I can definitely understand liking the older version's simplicity. I mainly made all of these changes to differentiate her style from Marth completely, even if it may be a bit overboard lol.

Yes, the Dash and Up Tilt attacks are among my favorite additions to her moveset. The Dash helps her follow up on her throws very well and the Up Tilt is REALLY fast, but as a result it never gets all that strong for KOs. If it hits, it manages to knock the opponent away from her to make it difficult to retaliate though! The Side Tilt took me forever to come up with as for how it should look, but I think I finally found an ideal change for it, haha. Even looking back at V1 and V1.5, notice how that move has been different in all of them!

I admit that although I like the Down Tilt too, it will probably change. It will still be a kick, but I want to change up how it works, haha. Also, referencing the Down Smash. Indeed, that is one of her moves I am flat out not satisfied with. I know what I want it to look like, but I just can't animate it >.<
Duly noted though. I'll consider changing it to not moving her forward slightly as I was kind of on the fence about that.

Ditto on the A, A combo! I will change that to have more lag at the end :)
How can I edit that FitMarth.pac file again though if I can't open it in PSA anymore though?
I have never used BrawlBox to edit those before. Not to mention that I want to be able to edit her for an eventual unofficial P:M version.

Anyway back to the other attacks. I love the Up Smash the same way too xp. The Side Smash had to be a strong stab *nods*. It shows her tendency to use more

brute, yet focused force in her attacks compared to Marth. (You've seen her in Awakening's cutscenes I'm sure xp. Risen impaled from behind and ripped out of the top of its head comes to mind). Definitely looking forward to the animation tweaks as well!
I like all of her aerials too. They're all effective I think. Of course I still want the Up Aerial to have a unique animation, but I'm not sure what to give it.

All of her Specials were a main concern for me when making this. They are the hardest for me to edit because, well... I don't know how to edit them fully, haha. The N Specials work fine, so that's good. Her Side Specials for example though, NONE of them work the way I want them too! The SpecialS1 needs more startup allowance, I agree. She needs to MOVE for the follow ups though, hahaha. I also want to give her a new SpecialS2Lw separate from her SpecialS2S (as you probably saw in the OP).

Her Up Special, I'm still kind of set on making it be a non-damaging move that enables follow-up aerials afterward (Like Mewtwo in P:M), but that may be difficult... I may just have to tweak it from Marth's/Roy's version of the move if need be. And then her Down Special, I also think it was a bit fast on startup. Sure, I can make it a bit slower at the beginning there ^^

Thanks again for the feedback! That always helps! I am equally stoked to have you helping me out with this, haha.

Let me see if I can address some other things!
Believe it or not, I was thinking of the same animation for that! If it works better to have it be a custom animation, then perhaps it should remain the same for ease of use? I already have you and RG working on a lot of stuff here. I don't want to overload you guys with constant stuff. In this case, RG specifically, since he will have to loop it back to Wait1.

Looks really promising! I think the hitbox connecting thing is something that needs to be done as well. I wish I were more experienced with coding in

that area, but like Zack Fair said... those RA bits... heh.

Wow. You work really quickly on those! Just fantastic :D

Lol. It did start out as that move xp. Definitely a bigger offender of a Roy emulating move is her Back Aerial, haha.

Anywho, it is really great to see so much interest in this project! Lucina's the first PSA anything I've ever really done, so this is just all the more awesome to me! :laugh:

Hey Crazyhand! I've been lurkin on this thread for a bit now. Figured it was time I popped in to show my support.


Hey heavy, if you still need help with that I did it for chrom. I'm sure I could get it to work for Lucina.


Brawl box really is the way to go, but if you want to use PSA that may be a pain. I know how to get files edited with smash to work with brawlbox, even though I'm pretty sure .68b just ignores that now. I have never tried to go back to smash though. The only way I know that would for sure work is starting over, and that blows.

You should be able to make a P:M version of her with brawlbox? Unless I'm missing some procedure that requires smash attacks...


Specials are absolutely intimidating, and a pain to learn. To make everything worse, I'm pretty sure EVERY character requires a slightly modified approach. If there's anything you need advice on I'm usually lurking around so feel free to shoot me a PM or something.


RA-bits for subactions are just disguised change subactions. Look deeper in the action and you'll find a subroutine event. If you go to the subroutine it's pointing to you'll find the change subaction commands...generally lol.


All in all, super stoked for this PSA! Can't wait to see more of it.

Unfortunately this isn't the case with Marth. Marth's RA bits go directly to the subaction the number corresponds to the number of the subaction (so if it says RA Bit 490 that means finalstart or something).

The downside is, is that if you want to replace a special like dancing blades, you're gonna have a slightly rough time. The action tabs don't have anything related to the if in air/ if on ground statements and just seem to go straight to the subactions themselves. I have yet to try and recode the action tab (so it looks like a normal action tab) and see if it works.

I'm curious to know as to why they coded Marth like that to begin with. It just seems like such an odd way to do something as opposed to the change subaction command, even if it does mean the same thing.

Well I have already done a rough version of that strike transitioning to her Wait1. I dunno if Revenant Genesis has done anything with it though. But it is a move that would naturally transition to that anyway, so maybe he fixed it up a little.

Well before I get to PSA-ing the move, I think I should animate it first. So I have something to work with.

Hello! Thanks for popping in! Oh I'm sure there's a way to open it up in BrawlBox! I just don't know how, haha. I still have much to learn with BrawlBox. I've only worked with Texture Hacking and Motion Files in BrawlBox before.

Cool! Well even if Revenant hasn't gotten to it, I'd say that's still a good thing to have implemented already :)

Pit used only RA bits and once you figure out what it looks like and means you'll realize that you can replace it with any action coding that does a similar thing. What are you guys trying to do to dancing blade?


Yeah that's generally a good idea :P can't code what's not there. Well I mean you can but, whatever you get it lol.


Brawl box .68b is the last version to support the movedefxxx in the .PAC file. Open up your fitmarth.PAC click on movedef > sections > subroutines/ actions. I may be missing one but just look around, you'll find it. From there its practically the same as smash attacks, just laid out much better IMO. What is really cool about brawl box is that nothing is in hex anymore. And everything is laid out with a nice uniform file system.

I was giving an example :P

I'm just trying to help someone not get steered in the wrong direction. The information you give is flawed and normally wrong. I just don't want to see another modder believing you and not ending up with what they wanted.

Was able to make a redo of your SpecialNLoop animation, using Roy's as a base with slight modifications to her arms.



It's also Subactions as well. that's where you can alter all the normal moves and properties for each. Actions are the Final Smash and Specials.

There was one instance where my information was flawed (I had overlooked Subaction 3 in Dancing Blade). But normally wrong? Please, just please inform me how I can't PSA and that it's always riddled with bugs I can't fix.


Sometimes the best way to code a special is to start clean and without any of the old coding (pretty much putting in no parameters for all the events and starting clean), and as a matter of fact he DOES want to change Dancing Blade to an Initiate Special Ability.

I don't have any enmity with you, but you're making it really hard to reply to you in a sensible manner when you reply in the way that you have. Maybe you didn't see it before, but there were at least two different ways to state what you did and give it a neutral, or even positive tone. I don't want to derail this thread about symantics, so just PM me if you want to discuss this.

Removing everything may be the best way for an experienced coder to make an attack work, but for someone just starting off it's much safer to use what is already there and work off of it. 

That's as far as I'll go. I realize now how worthless it is to argue with you.



From what I can tell on my phone, that's not a bad hold animation. Nice work.



Thanks lol, I was trying to remember as I was rolling out of bed. :P


Masterhand, you said that dancing blade wasn't doing anything like you wanted it to. What is it you are trying to change about it?

I'm glad you stuck with a pose close her original one, because I made the SpecialN you gave me go into her old charge stance. It shouldn't be too hard to convert it again. 

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Post Merge: March 03, 2014, 03:09:05 PM

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Also Master Hand, what do you have in mind for her new side tilt? If you cant do it I can do whatever for it. Same goes for the down smash. Just tell me what you want and I'll make it happen, at least to the best of my abilities. As for the specials just contact Mammoth for codding, and me for animations, and we can figure something out. Also kudos for being so gracious with my review. I hate it when people get all defensive about feedback. haha

Thanks! It was only a small modification, but it's better than a still charging animation. At least to me.

He's trying to make the first strike a place holder of sorts to move into I think 3 different attacks. SpecialS2Lw is Astra I'm assuming from what he stated in the OP, and from the animation that's given. And I think SpecialS2Hi is supposed to be Aether. That's what it kinda looks like anyway.

The only issue I see him having so far is to make them move forward as it does in BrawlBox. It's a little strange that they aren't, even though he put Moves Character on the ones he wanted to move. I'm not an expert at PSA-ing, so I wouldn't really know how to go about fixing that problem.

No Problem. I didn't know you made one too. Whoops.

You need the set air/ground event along with (I believe) the edge slide event as well.

Unfortunately, neither have worked for my Roy or Hector :(

 I'll check it and see if he did or not.

EDIT: I see that on Action 285, it has a change sub action to NONE in it dunno what that action normally is though. Oh that's SpecialLw. Never mind.

Its cool I didn't make a charge animation. I just made the Start and End transition to and from. If you wanna send that over i'll convert what I have.


EDIT: Send it to me and I'll have mammoth look at it. He's playing wii golf right now haha.

Action 285 is originally SpecialLwHit...

The SpecialS Actions are...

275
282
283
284

It looks like he has the right stuff in those actions but I might be wrong.

So basically a short stance? We did something like that when we were working on zoroark, it shouldn't be too tough.

Are you guys using brawl box or smash attacks? With this .PAC? That way I don't screw it up saving it with the opposite one.

 Well I'm using Brawl Box. I still have the original file that was used with smash attacks, if you want to use that one. But it doesn't have any of the new additions in it.

The thing about Lucina's Astra in Awakening is that she doesn't actually move forward at all after the first hit. Lucina as a Lord has enough different attack animations that every hit of Astra is actually unique, and there aren't any mid-combo backsteps like there are for most other classes.

It starts with her quick lunging stab (the initial attack she does when it isn't a killing blow), then follows with a horizontal slash from the left, then one from the right, then finally a vertical slash from bottom left, and ending with her finisher stab.

That said, I had an idea for her Final Smash: Astral Aether. Lucina performs Astra, with the last hit forcing the target back, then intercepts with Aether before they can escape.
Damage spread: 6%, 6%, 6%, 6%, 6%, 12% (heals Lucina 6%), 18%. Total damage: 60%

Regardless of whether you use this or your previous planned FS, her FinalDash should have her sword pointed forward, as she's about to stab whoever she runs in to.

Naw it's good, I haven't touched smash in so long.


I made her move. I will send you the file.

You may need to add an end animation to the SpecialS2Hi, a seperate subaction, because She slides like made while transitioning to her wait1. Or put a disallow horizontal movement on the second to last frame.

Thanks man. And I'll see what I can do.

Thanks for the info. That's not a bad idea, but it'll definitely take longer to animate that one as opposed to mine. But I'll think about it. I'll change up her FinalDash as well.

Definitely a good animation for the Neutral Special anyway :)

And yeah, you're right about what I intended those to be! That Astra is is more Path of Radiance-based as opposed to an Awakening-based one. Then Aether, yeah that's what it is, but the animation needs work, lol.

The third attack may be more of a Pseudo-counter (Pavise/Aegis) and I want to make it SpecialS2Lw whereas Astra should be a new SpecialS2Mid. I'm not sure how to go about making that one though. The "Pavise/Aegis" move can just reflect a fixed 10 damage or like half of the damage dealt to her, and it should probably have super armor frames so she doesn't go flying too. Not a perfect adaptation of the skill in here, but I think it would be okay for it to work this way.

Also, no worries about ever needing to use the old version to edit with PSA. I too figured out how to use it with BrawlBox now, and it is a WHOLE NEW THING. So much easier to use! I have seen the light... xp

Welcome brother to the ways of BrawlBox. I hope you enjoy your stay. Haha. Anyway. I just finished the Neutral Charge for the Aerial version as well. Now it'll flow better between air and landing mid charge. Also tweaked the ground version a little more to show that she's really building up some power. I basically just made her move a bit more around her Waist/Bust area.

EDIT: Here's the new Ground version:

This Is the Air version:

Nice job! Those are looking great! :happy:

Thanks I also remade the Win1Wait animation. But I'm having a hard time trying to clean up the Win1 itself to go with the new one I made.

This is the old one:
This is what I made:

Oh and to those of you like Revenant Genesis that think the cape blowing when no one elses is when they're around is weird. It really doesn't move as much in game as compared to the animation. So it wont look that dramatic.

That is once again awesome. "Everything is Awesome!"
... Sorry, just watched The Lego Movie xp.

In all seriousness though, you have your ways of making Lucina look super awesome in her poses :laugh:

It was just a more realistic revision of what you supplied to me. But thank you all the same. Maybe Revenant can get it to transition from Win1 better than I can. But honestly I don't want to put too much on his shoulders, so I'll try and fix it myself if I can.

Also I really want to see that movie. Was it good?

I personally really enjoyed it. It had both clever and cheesy moments, as should be expected with a Lego-based movie (and especially expected if you're familiar with the Lego games), but it's the good kind of cheesy xp! It's a very fun movie, and while not spoiling too much, I have to say I love how it connected the Lego universe with reality :D

Sounds like fun. I've played a few of the games myself. It should be real fun to watch. Also is there any reason you set Lucina's head scale to 1.05?

o_O
Oh yeah... I was testing out scaling character models using the Motion File. I think I forgot to change that back, lol.

This is looking good. Too bad ol' Lucy doesn't have hair bones.

Well don't worry, I fixed it a while ago. Just thought I'd ask.


 Yeah that would have been a nice touch to add, But she was worked on like mad already, so I don't really mind it that much.

EDIT:I just finished up a Win1 for Lucina. The end of it was a bit rushed because I was having issues with the HipN bone again. Either way I think it looks good, but could use a little touch up at the end of it.

There needs to be a crouch at the beginning of it.

I WISH we humans could just jump as high as that without crouching, you know how easy it'd be to get around traffic?

Yeah I know. It took me forever just to get to what is seen there. I'll try and fix it up later. Maybe.

Those are looking awesome! And hey I like the cape blowing in the wind! ;)

How are things coming along Revenant? I know you're probably really busy with all the hacks you've set up for yourself. Just wondering how much you were able to get done with Lucina.

Yeah he's pretty busy with Black Knight and those other projects he has. Also it has been really hard to get on Brawl Vault lately due to the constant 503 problems.

I'm almost ready to send her over. I just have to finish editing the counter animation, and make some small adjustments to her win. Sorry for the wait fellas.

Oh don't worry about it. I was just checking in. Animating takes time, so I understand it would be a while.

Yeah, what Heavy said, take your time. Don't want it to be sloppy work right? ;)

I can't wait! :happy:

Agreed! :happy:

Okay I know its been a while, but I just got an updated version of Lucina from Revenant Genesis yesterday. I'll post a link to her later today, so you guys will have something to test out. It's still not completely finished on his side but he felt he needed to finish some of his other projects first.

How could I miss THIS?! *subs*
Looking forward to see Lucina in action! (again :P)

Okay, here she is. Have fun guys. I still need to work on her Final Smash. I've been procrastinating quite a bit with it.  r)

I swear, this is near perfection already. Almost all of her animations are cleaned up and everything too! She may not be finished quite yet, but it seems like it's getting pretty close :)

Oh and no problem Heavy, take your time on the Final Smash, haha. I can relate to procrastination, especially when it comes to projects for school, heh.

EDIT: On a side note, it possible to edit the PAC file to give Lucina a Wall Jump without a code? Apparently it was done for Ike in Project M somehow.

 I'm pretty sure you can, but I wouldn't know how to go about doing that. I'd look in his PM file to see how it was done.

Yep, it's possible.

I see. Do you by any chance know how or what needs to be edited? I have no clue about what to look for either xp.

Oh by the way Heavy, I am working on a slightly tweaked version of the test files you sent. I kind of just worked on some things like making the Astra hits connect better, made it so Lucina doesn't drop so quickly until the actual attack part of her NAir Special, and did a few knockback adjustments here and there. I'll send it your way in a bit.

I have a text file with a few coding tips and tricks, and wall jumping is in there.

It uses PSA notation, so it might take a while to "translate" into BBox.

It also requires you to have an empty action tab, so keep that in mind.

I got it, Thanks man. I'll test her again to see the changes, then get back to you.



EDIT: Okay I tested her again. The additions you made definitely helped out a lot. Her side b low, Astra, combos better. Her neutral b also works much better now, both air and ground versions.

Also that grab break away issue isn't really all that bad to deal with. You can still pummel them and throw them without any problems. Its just if you sit there holding them for like a second and a half they break free. Still not that bad, but I don't know how to fix that either.

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Post Merge: March 15, 2014, 02:38:30 AM

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Okay I'm starting on Lucina's Final Smash. I got A new FinalDash animation done for her, since it was the easiest. I also semi-finished her FinalDashEnd as well. The only thing I didn't do was transition her to Wait1. Since RG is so good at doing that I might leave it up to him, and I'll do the rest.

Here's what I got done. I changed the angle of where she holds her sword, based off of what JamietheAuraUser said.

Trust me that it looks better in BrawlBox, than the gif.


EDIT:I have the beginning of her FinalEnd animated. It's not that great I know but like I said, I'm not that good at making attacks. I have yet to make her land and do the second strike. I just thought I'd give a progress report on what I have completed.

Here's what I did so far.

Here's a side view.

EDIT 2:Okay I now have the full attack animated. Just needs the transition again. Here it is, tell me what you guys think? I still have to do the FinalStart, and then I'll be done with the animating side of it.

Actually I still haven't done the air version. I guess that's next on the list then.

Those look really nice man! Very fluent and nice. Great Job!

These animations look great! But, for the last one, when she slashed through the opponent, make her right arm a little more backward than it currently is...

What do you mean exactly? Like when she's done passing through or just after the swing itself?

That's what she does in game. Her arm ends at that angle. I could adjust it though, so it makes more sense I suppose. Thanks for the feedback though.

When she's done passing through... I didn't play the games, I'm just inspired by alot of swords(wo)men who do this kind of move

Yeah, I guess I could revise it a little.

Yea, but that's not something... Well, not really a big deal...

I know, but I like to make things that at least kinda make sense.

That's why I don't think this animation would really have an Air version. She's not a Bleach or DBZ character so it wouldn't make much sense to have her jumping mid air like that.

Then again they can all jump twice for some reason so, I don't know.

2D Battle games are better with double jump... And they all come from different worlds... So reality physics doesn't affect them completly... That's always what I'm telling myself xD
Owell, if you want to make a sensed aerial version, make her skip the 1st part of your animation and make the thrust directly as dive.

Okay, I got her Final Smash PSA'd. There are just a few things I have to tweak, and I'll be done with it and post an update to see what people think.

Guilty Gear did that.

I'd love to see the coding.

Well its nothing special. I'll post it a little later, seeing as I just woke up. If anyone feels it needs something just say so.

EDIT:Alright guys here she is. I didn't do anything to the Air FS though. But it still uses the coding from the ground one, just to let you all know.

Do you want the damage to go into the negatives or do you want it to?

Do we still use the FitFinal.Pac or do we just use the Fit.Pac and the FitMotionEtc.Pac? Because the FitFinal.Pac doesn't look different from before (MB wise) and the dropbox link says it last modified 3 days ago, AKA the last download link. Unless this doesn't have the new FS of yours on it.....

Unless I'm mistaken, I think all the FitFinal.pac in this case just edits the effects that happen when the Final Smash activates (like the health bar that pops up for Marth's). As in it just makes it so it does not appear. All 3 files should still be used though.

if you already have the FitMarthFinal then you don't need to download it. I just put in there for anyone who hasn't tried it out yet to get it.

What? Could you be a little more clear on what you're asking. Do you mean when she has less than 15%? If that's what you mean then if there's a way to keep it from going past 0% then sure. I've seen it done before, I think the guy who made MAX Onslaught Falcon did it where he'd heal down to 0% and not go past it. I just don't know how to do it exactly myself.

I just got to testing her out a moment ago. Looking good so far when it comes to the camera angle and animations for the ground version! Now she just needs to hit with the second attack, haha. I noticed that she has an Idle animation now too. A very nice one at that. Thank you for adding that in :)

Then another thing. I figured out what happened with the small character grab glitch she had. Turns out the catch collision on the CatchWait animation had it misplaced by a long shot. It was attached below her foot xp.
I fixed that so she can grab characters properly now! Just the Motion File needed to be edited: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102951146/FitMarthMotionEtc.pac (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102951146/FitMarthMotionEtc.pac)

What do you mean? Both hits connect just fine for me. It really depends on how close you are to another character when you start it though. Sometimes the first one wont hit them if you're right next to them.

Cool that you fixed the grab glitch though. Very nice.

Really? How strange then. For me, the opposing character is stunned at first, like I assume it's supposed to be, but then flies off before the second hit connects.

You're using vBrawl aren't you. I'm using Project M. Their stun mechanics work differently. I don't know how to do it unless I slow down time so it can connect better. That usually works for vBrawl.


EDIT: Okay I put a Time Manipulation Event at the beginning of the FinalEnd. It should work now. If not then you could move it around to where it would be most useful. Updated the Dropbox with You're FitMarthMotionEtc.pac and my extra changes to the FitMarth.pac.

All right, I made a few more tweaks to Lucina since a bit of a while back. I intended to get this up earlier, but my laptop had some problems lately and I just got them fixed. Hopefully everything will be swell from this point on with it, haha.

She has a new Up Air and it is pretty nice, but it could use a few touch-ups in smoothing out the animation. It's mostly fine to me though. Also, I fixed the animation twitches she had in her Win1 pose. It looked fine in BrawlBox, but acted strangely in-game. Also, her Final Smash seems to connect just fine now, at least for vBrawl with this particular PAC file.

The OP has been updated with the current changes to Lucina. I'll post it right here too though:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102951146/Lucina%20V2%20BETA.rar

What else do you need to get done before release?

The necessities are:
- Entry Animations, which need to transition into her Wait1 (I can probably try to do these if no one else is able)
- her Down Smash (I know what I personally want for this, but I am open to suggestions on what it should be),
- her Up and Side Specials (just one part of the Side Special),
- the aerial version of the Final Smash needs fine-tuning,
- and I guess her Rolling Dodge animations too, if only to differentiate them from Marth's.

Soooo... I did this~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-o3Ksw-ed0



I would suggest making her entry based on her entry in Awakening, but with warp (Similar to Revenant's Chrom). But I dunno.
...
I might give animating it a try if you're interested, but that's only a maybe.

Yeah I think that would be best. Also nice video man. I still haven't gotten around to finishing her final start yet, or giving her an air fs that makes sense. Dunno what I would do for it though.

The current Final Air one is cool! Though... The jump sounds a bit weird in mid air... (please don't bring the air jump in Brawl, I know that...)
Why not, instead of the jump, she dives with her enemy, or she spikes him? That could be a really cool move, IMO

Nice video! And by all means, if you think you can do the entry animations, feel free to do so :)

So uh.
Entry.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e289/Kitsu-chan8/Untitled_zpsa8ed804e.gif)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/engg4f5sbxwpwhf/Entry.chr0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/engg4f5sbxwpwhf/Entry.chr0)

...Mediocre at best, but I'm terrible at animations.

It doesn't look that bad... just a bit robotic... try moving the waist a bit... it'll make it less stiff... maybe

When used properly, the HipN bone does wonders.

Abuse it :srs:

I'll keep trying to improve on it, but if I can't make it look any better the link to it's already up.

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Post Merge: March 26, 2014, 08:17:52 PM

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Random update on it.

Definitely looks better than the first one. ;)

Nice job. If you need some help I can take a crack at it.

If you want to change it up feel free to, I can't think of any way to improve it from where it is. The link to the current version is here~
https://www.dropbox.com/s/engg4f5sbxwpwhf/Entry.chr0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/engg4f5sbxwpwhf/Entry.chr0)

Also, something random but still relevant, I changed up the sword glow a bit to make a gold version for those using the Exalted Falchion model of Lucina (Like me!) if anyones actually interested.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e289/Kitsu-chan8/glow1_zpsce1bb29e.jpg)

^This!

Oh that's a great idea. I'll definitely be using that! But I can see that the actual glow around the sword wasn't changed. Since that overlaps the glow texture they put on her you should try changing that as well.

I recolored the actual glow after taking the screenshot.
Probably should have done so before that, haha.

Oh, well that would've made more sense. Haha. But I'd love that sword glow recolor, if you don't mind.

EDIT:I tried to add a bit more to your Entry animation, like some leg and head movement.

Definitely a large improvement.

Also, the gold sword glows.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0ukxzye5q26jgxp/9dahHcT0Mh (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0ukxzye5q26jgxp/9dahHcT0Mh)

Needs HipN movement.

Move it upwards during the "salute" part of the animation. If it messes up the rotation to the Wait1... then just send it to me. I'll fix it.

frigging HipN bone... :srs:

^This

Alright, I only have 1 thing to say, since Zack stole my "HipN comment"
Make her slightly lift her left leg before transiting to the wait, to make a lil' more sense... Right now, she looks like her foot goes into the ground... A bit weird IMO...
Other than that, that's a great improvement you did there!

Thanks for the sword glows.

Okay apparently no one can see it but I did move both of those bones. Granted the HipN bone wasn't as much, but I moved both legs. I guess it's the angle or something. But
I'll add more height to it then, if it's really that miniscule.

EDIT: Okay. Here's an update with a better angle. Hopefully you guys can see the differences better this time. I also changed a few more things with it. BrawlBox likes to cut gifs short so yeah...

Here's the link with the new Entry with it. It also has the new Sword Glow that Kitsu-chan added for her Exalted Falchion model.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0ovlqr4qwe7pmuz/yI4C6VFomT (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0ovlqr4qwe7pmuz/yI4C6VFomT)

When you make gifs, start making them from the angle that you'd see them in-game. It gives a more accurate idea as to how it'd look in game.

I only made the camera that way so you can all see that her legs move off of the ground, as opposed to the other version, which you couldn't really see all that well.

I see... But keep in mind that it's better to have it in an angle similar to the in-game one.
But that animation... That's a cool idea. :srs:

Unless you can see it in game from the angle that you play (facing left and right), then don't worry about it.

I'm not. Just pointing out that the legs moved even though Akeno said they didn't. That's all.

EDIT:Alright, finally got around to finishing Lucina's FinalStart. So now her ground FS is fully animated. Here is a gif.

I'll post a link to the updated FitMotion later.

Here's the latest version.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0ovlqr4qwe7pmuz/yI4C6VFomT (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0ovlqr4qwe7pmuz/yI4C6VFomT)


EDIT 2: Okay I made a new Air FS for her. Well to be honest I didn't make it, Thany did, but I just changed the properties of the attacks used to make them not fire attacks. It's basically the same as the one CHMH made but with a smoother animation. I still need to test it first, and fix a stupid glitch I keep getting, then I'll post an update again.

EDIT 3: I updated the link again. But be warned, there seems to be a glitch with her standard grab where she gets stuck in place during whatever it is she's doing when about to grab. Getting hit knocks her out of it though, but still just letting you all know. A buddy is trying to fix it for me, if any of you know how to fix the issue go on ahead.

I'll explain how this glitch happened. I was trying to edit the Side B moves, basically the damage and knockback they do to make them connect perfectly, which they now do, but after I saved it, it somehow affected her grab stuff, except her Dash Grab. As said above, she freezes in whatever she's doing and wont stop unless she's hit. I dunno what the problem is, but it happens all the damn time when I edit Marth's Side Specials.

There is good news though. I updated her Air FS, so now she has 2 awesome Final Smashes. Hope you like it. It works pretty well.

Alright, I updated the previous link without that stupid grab glitch. Hopefully it works now. I also gave her an updated AppealHi. So her FitMotion should be DL'd as well.

EDIT: I tested her out, and her grab works fine. No more problems, thankfully. So enjoy!

EDIT 2: Updated her Air FS with fancy new camera angle goodness. Also re-edited her AppealHi(Up Taunt) to be a bit fresher, I suppose. It looks good to me so whatevs. :af:

Sorry I haven't posted in a while! I have been very busy with college work. Final Papers and Final Exams are coming about right now... oh boy.

Anywho, Lucina has indeed changed again, so let me fill you all in on what's gone on with her recently.
Heavy, I have done some edits on Lucina again and incorporated all of your changes into the edits. I really like the Up Taunt. It IS fresher! Also the Final Smashes are just a bunch of fun and flashiness, which I always say more power to, hahaha. I DID lower the power on her Side Specials a bit just because they were a bit overpowered. The transition from her "Skill Activation" animation also has different timing than before.

Aether would KO Bowser at around 80% before the edit, and Astra would initially chain all of its hits together and could be followed with an Up Smash at 0%, bringing the opponent as high as 41% in 2 moves, lol.
Aether is still a fairly good move now, but Astra is generally a bit harder to chain (you kind of just can't be point-blank close to the opponent or the 5th hit will miss).

She has successfully been given a third option for Side B where hitting Side BB will put her into a stance where she can activate super armor and can interrupt her stance at any time with a Ground Attack, a grab, another Special Attack, or a Jump (which by extension can be followed up with an Air Attack). So she has a pseudo-counter with a choice, but still takes damage as normal. It's a dangerous attack though because it essentially makes her next move almost completely safe.

Her Air Side B is also a bit different and I am also going to call it "Ignis" after all. She becomes tinted red for the attack and has a nice Flame effect for it too. I also think it is worth noting that she has that "Counter" circle effect activate for every referenced skill that she does from Awakening in her moveset now. It's just an aesthetic thing, but it looks cool to me!

Lucina really just needs her Down Smash and Up Special to be changed now at this point.
Most of what I said was written and updated in the OP also, but yeah that is where she is right now. She's SO close to being completed :)

Nice. I'm glad you like my edits to her. Especially her Air FS. That took some time to get the camera angles right. I think adding camera angles makes the moves more unique, and less bland.

Also if you can give me a detailed description of her Down Smash, I'll try and animate one for you so we can get that out of the way a little earlier.

I think all you need for the Up Special is an Allow Specific Interrupt during the move. So add like an ASI Air Attack, or Mid Air Jump to it. I still think it should do damage, just not that much.

Did you post a link or update the one in the OP with your changes?

If there's no PSAing that needs to be done, then I'm no longer required here :P

To get that last question out of the way quickly, yeah the OP has been updated with the most recent edits :)

The Down Smash... I will try my best to describe it, haha.
- Definitely a noteworthy detail: It is kind of like Roy's, but Lucina will sweep it the opposite way and with both hands.
- For the beginning/charging animations, she needs to bring up her sword with two hands up to the right side of her face, sword facing up.
- Then when the actual attack happens, she takes it and swings it kind of diagonally forward in motion toward the floor, leading to a sweeping circle motion with the sword across the ground.
- She'll end the animation with the sword brought up near the left side of her face, sword facing up. After that well, she will transition to her fighter stance like with all other moves. I hope that makes sense!

Then the Up Special... if I add specific interrupts though, wouldn't that enable her to use another Up Special following it? That could be broken, lol.

Sure thing :D
Thanks for your assistance!

Specific interrupts would allow her to ONLY interrupt with the moves you've allowed it to interrupt to.

You're thinking of allow interrupt.

I know. Unless there is something else aside from Allow Interrupts and Allow Specific Interrupts? What I mean is if she interrupts her Up Special with an aerial attack though, wouldn't that put her in the Fall state as opposed to the Special Fall state?

As far as I know, another Up Special could be used in one of the non-Special Fall states. 

I think you could but I'm not 100% sure about it. It would give you good combo potential though. But I understand that her recovery would be ridiculous. I myself don't mind that but I know others will.

On another note, I updated your SpecialS2S Counter like animation to have more animation to it. Also I'm slowly working on a redo of your Attack11 and 12. I only started on the first on though. I'm about half way through it. I just want it to look smoother. I'll post a gif of the SpecialS2S soon.

EDIT:Okay here it is. Now she ducks down when sliding forward.

Add some leg movement, and it's golden :P

Ah thank you. That looks a lot better. As usual, I appreciate the fine-tuning in the animations ^^

And yes, I certainly feel many others would mind if she had near-infinite recovery!
I'd need to lower her weight even more to balance her out probably xp

Isn't she already like 95 or something? Lowering it more would make her very easy to KO.

I know, I was joking a bit with that one xp. (She's actually 80 I believe lol)
She may be able to pull it off still though considering she has 3 moves to help her recover.
Anyway, that aside I think I will just settle for altering her Up B from where it is now rather than incorporating a big change.

What kind of alteration were you thinking of? I can do the coding for her up b and test it to see how it would work if you want. It'll only take a few minutes. Also I just tested your work and it looks great. Her side b side should do some damage, as it looks like she's deflecting attacks. Not a large amount of course. Maybe something like 10-12%.

I'm all ears :P

One thing to mention. The Exalted Masked Lucina freezes once you select a stage. I'm using the long haired version of that. It worked before, so I'm assuming we hit the file size limit for that model. The original short and long haried without masks work fine though. I think it might just be the exalted ones that don't.

I'm glad you like it! I mainly didn't make the Side B->B do any damage just because the stance is based off of Aegis & Pavise from Awakening, which really just reduce damage taken, but I don't know how to incorporate somthing like that, heh. Maybe it could just use a different animation then?
Alrighty then! For the Up B I intended on making it similar to Mewtwo's (Project M), Sonic's, and Snake's recoveries where she could attack in the air again but not be allowed to use the Up B until landing again. More power to you guys if you know how to make it do that, haha. I would greatly appreciate it.

Also darn on the file size limit. I guess the textures for the Exalted versions need to be reduced to compensate? Either that or the Motion File will have to be lowered again.

I'm working on her up b now. Also she doesn't need a new animation, the one you used is fine. It was just a suggestion.

Eh, no problem. That's why there's a thread for this; so that it can be open for discussion :)
Oh and best of luck with the Up B.

Okay I think I have something now. I'm gonna go test it.

EDIT: Okay I think I got her Up B working decently enough for a trial run. She can interrupt with a jump if she hasn't used one yet and any Normal Air Attack, no specials for obvious reasons. But she can use her Up B again if timed correctly after an Air Attack. Namely her Up Air, since the endlag isn't too long. I put the Specific Interrupt at the last 10 frames of the animation as to make it less spammable  but still be effective.

I made her Air Side B have a sort of juggle effect then a 3rd stronger stike at the end to knock enemies away. It's not that strong though just enough to send them away from you. It's only a bit more knockback, and 3% more damage for the last hit. So it's 2% 2 times, and a third hit dealing 5% for a total of 9% I can put it back to 6% total if you want though.

Her Side B Side does 10% damage with low knockback/knockback growth so it wont kill but still knock enemies away from you.

Her grabs are unaffected this time amazingly. Also her normal Masked Long Haired version works fine too. So it is just the Exalted stuff that doesn't work yet. I already uploaded my changes to Dropbox. They should be in the link on page 14 towards the top of the page, post #199.

Yes! Lucina is getting better everyday! What does she still need though?

A down smash animation. That's pretty much it. He described what he wanted it to look like a couple of posts ago.

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Post Merge: April 12, 2014, 02:23:52 AM

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Alright, sadly I ran into a glitch with Lucina. I was playing as her against Snake. When he used his M9 Tranquilizer gun, I'm playing Project M by the way,  and I got hit by it, she fell asleep and the SFX started bugging out and then it just froze on me. Dunno what happened, but thought I'd let you know.

Just out of curiosity, does she glitch up in regular Brawls when falling asleep as well or is that just Project M?

Quick question,

Did you guys edit anything in the up special action tab for Lucina?

Nevermind, I got it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e8e3nsty14j3a74/FitMarth%20up%20special%20reworkish.pac (https://www.dropbox.com/s/e8e3nsty14j3a74/FitMarth%20up%20special%20reworkish.pac)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsv41frlrbcpq92/FitMarth%20up%20special%20rework.pac (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsv41frlrbcpq92/FitMarth%20up%20special%20rework.pac)
Hopefully this works.

What I've changed is that Lucina does her Up Special Normally, and now she no longer goes into special fall. Instead of being able to interrupt the up special, she is allowed to do any move aside from her Up special after she's already performed it.

If you try to perform her up special, instead, she just does her up air attack.

I haven't tested that glitch in vBrawl yet. I'll take a look later.


Thanks for the help on this man. I'd love to try it out, but the link says it's no longer there. Could you re-upload your fixes please?

Edited the post.

Should work now.

Thanks. So just that one LA-Bit[100] makes her not go into special fall?

No, that just prevents her from doing her Special Hi again.

Can you test to see if it doesn't freeze or anything?

Yeah sure, I will soon I'm working on a few other things right now.

EDIT: I tested your coding Tidus. It didn't work. Basically it just forced you into her AttackAirHi instead of giving you the option to do it manually. Which led to the fact that she never gained height at all during both versions of the move, and pretty much just helplessly falling off stage.

thats becuase the attack airhi doesnt have an exit put this on any tab of the attack upairhi it wont affect anything just add this on any part of any tab

Change action to 0 requirement :on the ground
Additional requirement:animation end
Change action to 14 requirement on the air
aditional requirement animation end

also tidus you need to clear the bit or it will be stuck on True

you need to put the command
bit variable clear labit100=false
on the following subactions on any tab on the beggining of any :
entrys
wait1
all lands including aerial lands hard lands light lands etc.
edje grab
damaged subactions so when your damaged you can use up special again

The bit gets cleared on the landing subactions. Although I did forget about the waits abd entrys.

But entry shouldn't matter, should it? The bit only gets set at the end of the specialhi.

Anways, I'll check the code again.

you still need to clear it on wait1 entrys ,edje grabs and damage subaction or it wont work correctly liek it should and you need an exit on the atack air hi like i said abode or it will end the aniamtion and wont change to wait1 or fall sinc theres no intructions.

That's definitely true since she'd just get stuck in her aerial fall pose until you move.

Alright, added the clear variable to all the waits, entry, ledge grab, air damage subaction, and landing after an aerial attack.

Also added the change action stuff in attack air hi. Even though it felt extremely weird to do so.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsv41frlrbcpq92/FitMarth%20up%20special%20rework.pac (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsv41frlrbcpq92/FitMarth%20up%20special%20rework.pac)

 Alright I'll test it later today.

what happens when you use the upaerial is that it uses its own action which we cant see becuase its a comon action which has an exit of their own since you using the special action to go directly to the atack up airhi you dont use that action so you dont use the exit that is set on aerial attacks.

1 request can u change her counter to the down b again
and have her side b as a dancing blade

Well, they are going for Lucina's roots from Fire Emblem Awakening. If you did play Awakening, you might've noticed she never had access to the ability Counter. So her Down-B is completely different now. And her Side-B, is a dancing blade except its different. They are balancing her out. And I find her better than the 1.5 version. So, yeah I love where it's going.  :)

If you want the one with the counter, here it is: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=31406 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=31406)

the side b isnt doing anything for me it doesnt do any damage and just has her doing an animation

The FE Characters never had Counter because of an ability that they had. They had counter because of their ability to strike twice if they had high enough speed.

Just some clarification.

how do u use her dancing blade
i use the side b and i just see an animation of her putting up a sword nothing else

The timing is different compared to how it was before. You can no longer just mash B twice very quickly and expect anything to happen. I still plan to tweak the first animation's properites (like possibly allow you to shield as a Specific Interrupt in mid-animation), but just press Up B, Down B, or B again right after she puts her sword up to activate a move.

I might start on her Down Smash animation today. I just need to think of a good one first.

It can be Marth's except Lucina attacks behind first, then in front.

Well CHMH and I aren't trying to use that move we want it to be new and fresh. That's why we're making a new one.

Why not make it a random downward slash?

You could use it so that it launches people into the air a set distance, and make it one of her main moves to combo with her up special and whatever else she wants to use.

Well it's really up to CrazyHand, since he's the creator. I'm just helping him out.

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Post Merge: April 16, 2014, 04:42:44 PM

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Alright, I got good news! the coding worked perfectly. So all that's left is her down smash animation and Lucina will be done.

EDIT: @CrazyHandMasterHand, Lucina's Critical Aether FS works fine on any speed you use it in vBrawl. I tested it out myself. Both hits connect perfectly. Also in regards to vBrawl, that weird glitch with her sleeping ends up freezing the game still happens. I just tested out that theory. Sadly the same thing happens.

Awesome.

Wish CHMH was on so I could ask some questions about the down smash and the other moves in general.

He already posted what he wanted done about a page or two ago, like on page 14. If you were interested. Also in my above post, could you test out if Lucina freezes for you when she falls asleep? I used Jigglypuff to do it easily. I don't know what's causing the freeze though.

EDIT: I've started on a Down Smash. I'm using Roy's new one as a base. I just changed the angle in which her sword arm is facing to be more inward. Now I gotta work on transitioning to her Wait1 which isn't gonna be as easy with this considering where she ends the slash.

Here's a gif.

Hype! Hype! Hype! Hype! Hype! Hype! Hype! Hype!

That's a lot of hype there. Try to calm yourself.

Well, I do know CrazyHandMasterHand in person. So I'm rooting for him for his success when it's uploaded to the Vault. I helped him make the video for the 1.5 version of Lucina. Man was our match close. So yeah, I'm pretty hyped for this.

Ah... I had no idea that was you. So you were playing as shadow then?

Yup. :)

Cool, well I hope this new version is well received as well. We all put a lot of work into this one. Also a little off topic but, have you noticed that the Fusion thread is gone?

Yep.

Is that the down smash start or down smash animation?

Yeah, I heard.  :(

Yeah Mr. Me and I actually meet to play Smash a lot... and a play a bunch of other games really, hahaha.

Anyway, that is a nice-looking Down Smash so far Heavy.

I really have to wonder how we can fix that Sleep glitch...
Could it be the Sawnd file be the reason for it? Maybe it glitched up some SFX in there.
I'll have to look into it myself later or tomorrow when I have time
(as in when I don't have so many essays to do >.<).

It's the first half. I still need to transition to Wait1, which I'm working on now.

It's weird, I wonder what happened to it, and to Omega's profile. Oh well, I guess we'll see.

Thanks man. Glad you like it. I'm a bout halfway done with it, as I said earlier. Also, yeah I really don't know what's causing that glitch either. It's really weird. Maybe someone can figure it out.

if it freezes while it sleeps then either somehoew the furafura sleep animations are missing/broken or the psa ot corrupted, if the case is the second grab a fresh pac and copy paste between bb windows and do a single save(cant copy paste set air grounds or set aerial/onstage these are the ones that have a higher probably of corruption so try to be careful on actions and such) and it should sleep again.

Well could you try and fix it? Cause I have no idea where to start.

EDIT: I just finished her Down Smash animation. It's rough, but passable at least. Here's a gif.

a down smash that only hits behind? that is wierd lol usualy all down smash either hit on the front or on both sides not only on the back.

It starts from one end to the other. It's just the angle the gif was taken from. Wait a minute. I just noticed that Lucina's FuraSleepLoop is only 1 Frame for some reason. That may be why it's freezing. I'll fix it and see if that helps.

EDIT:Great news! No more sleep freeze glitch! Also the Down Smash actually looks pretty good in game. So when I send the files over to CHMH, I think she'll be ready for release. :happy:

Dat hair clipping in the gif tho

Not too noticeable in the middle of a fight, so you should be fine.

Can't do anything about that. She doesn't have bones in her hair.

Also if anyone is interested. Mia's new model works with this PSA as well.

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Post Merge: April 17, 2014, 04:34:26 PM

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Okay, I'm pretty sure everything with Lucina is done. I just sent CrazyHand all the updated files. Now we wait for it's big release!

I just tested her out and she is just awesome!

There is just one tiny problem now unfortunately...
It seems that if she lands in the water after using her recovery, she cannot use it again until getting out and landing on solid ground. That can be a problem in stages where the water is at a lower level than the platforms (which is most of them).

It makes me frustrated because, well obviously it's another problem. Also, I don't know how to fix it... *sob*

Just one more hurdle to overcome until release then.

 Damn it. We were so close too. I dunno how to fix that either.

thats very easy just put bitvaribale clear labit 100=false on the swim subactions we forgot to cover the water lol

Oh, cool. Well thanks again for the help. Does it have to be on every swim subaction?

it doesnt hurt having it on all of them its a single line code so it doesnt affect anything just copy paste that to every swim and call it a day xD

Alright then. I'm doing it now. then I'll update my post to CrazyHand, then she should be released. Hopefully, if no other problems arise.

EDIT: Alright it's done. CrazyHand when you get back on try testing her again. I just updated the file I sent you. Hopefully this will be the last thing in our way.

Oh whoops, I forgot about the swimming subactions :P

Its all good. I got it covered.

Awesome. Thanks.

No problem. Let's just hope this is the last issue that needs fixing.

EDIT: I tested that water issue you were having and it seems to have been resolved. So I think she's glitch free now. At least where PSAing is concerned.

is this almost done yet?

It should be done. I'm waiting on CrazyHand to take a look at what I gave him, so he can release her.

Sorry, I've just been a bit busy with some last essays for the end of my semester of college.
I still have one more week, then I will be officially done with my schoolwork.

She IS pretty much done moveset and everything-wise for vBrawl. No glitches to speak of.
I just wanted to add a couple more things before I release her (some aesthetic stuff and a few edits for a Project M version).
I'll likely have her up by the end of this month or around the beginning of May.

Cool. Sounds good to me. Let me know if you need any help with anything.

So I like, made a double team-ified edit to Pass, since, as far as I notice it's supposed to be a nod to Lucario's PM Double Team anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n100ijcyes


If you want, I can do the same for the most recent version, too.
...

Holy crap please do that! It definitely gives that move some shininess. Which is what it lacked IMO.

Also how did you get Lucario's GFX's on Marth? I still don't know how to do that without having the needed character in the match.

I've not watched this thread for the past two weeks or so, so I dunno what the most recent version is though... Hm...

I transferred the effect files over from Lucario to Marth, this also requires a bit of hex editing and such.

Well it seems that CrazyHand still has some things in mind for her, but I can give you the most recent one I gave him. Which is what he's working off of now. Then I can send the work you did over to him as well. Just let me know what you want to do.

Only thing is to add the double team effect to Pass.

Optionally, I could also add the edited animation to further mimic double team, but, the main thing is porting the GFX.

Okay, well I can send you the new stuff if you want the newest stuff to work off of. I think it would be great if you could get this to work.

Sure. Hopefully I'll be able to get it working in an hour or so.
Although, I test in Dolphin, so I've no idea if it'll work on a console or not.

Well that's fine, I test on the console so I guess that works out perfectly. I'll send the Link to her in a PM soon.

There's no need to hex at all :P

To fix up the actual GFX references (That is, reff files) it is very necessary~

I've never had to fix the reff files.

Do you mean EFLS?

Nope, I mean reff.
You can't just rename them and expect them all to work properly, that's where some hexing is handy.

Really wish I knew how to do that stuff.

I dont rename them. I'vea dded my own. It's how I got Project Sacred's Skyward Strike to work.

There are cases where some character effects use more then one reff file for the same effect, for example Pit.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e289/Kitsu-chan8/gfx_zpsdbb04058.jpg)

its easy to port reff with bb 71

just export all the reff files that double team uses , add a new elf entry and put uses model no, then add the reffs in the same order they were on lucario and problem solved you just call the new elf entry

Alright I just tested her again. It works perfectly Kitsu, no problems whatsoever. Nice work man. I'll pass this along to CrazyHand after I fix a couple of GFX timing issues with her FinalStart.

EDIT: Alright I added the new stuff to the Dropbox link. CrazyHand, if you see this please re-download it so you can get these new additions and fixes. Made a goof on the SFX for her FinalStart. I fixed it.

This is getting closer and closer...must contain.... excitement .....for this ......PSA.  :happy:

There's another thing you can do to her Up Special to make it not work more than once. It uses an LA-Bit that Sonic and Snake also use for their Up Specials, which also prevents them from using other special moves until they land and makes them land as if from helpless fall. It's LA-Bit[61]. Set it to true at the start of Up Special, then set it false during swim, helpless fall landing, wait1 (to prevent the infamous Air Tripping glitch), Up Special landing lag, and possibly Entry as well.

As for Pass, would it be possible to have her double-team with her end position instead of just left-right of her starting point, so she sort of fades to her ending position? I think that would look really cool. Probably be a pain to do though.

You could not have had more apt timing with your post, haha.

I had intended to get Lucina up today, but I ran into one more glitch with her Up B. It seems that if she barely finishes the animation or something right when touching the ground, she just locks up in the air and cannot do anything but shift left and right until she can fall again. I can imagine this could be a big problem during gameplay.

Here's what it looks like [pardon the shoddy cell phone video quality]:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2xA4rZGewc&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2xA4rZGewc&feature=youtu.be)

I thought I could fix it by making her go into the LA-Bit promptly at the last frame of the animation, but it still happened. Here is her most current form: https://db.tt/GXKaMvaZ (https://db.tt/GXKaMvaZ)
I take it if LA-Bit[61] is used, it might fix this problem?

Taken from the RA Bits collection topic:

LA-Bit: 61
Location: Snake's and Sonic's Up-B, Ganon's Final
Speculation
Could have something to do with their falling? Supposedly checks if you used Up-B already. Sometimes freezes if put in other Up-B's.

That's the important part.


That wouldn't solve it. That'd just undo everything you did :P

I'm testing her now, and... you guys did something weird with Lucina. At the end of the Up Special, if you hold up or any direction in the up direction (sounds weird...) she'll float a bit at the end. I noticed that it was then that she seemed to freeze in the air.

The freeze frame also matched the frames where she ends the up special.

Again, did you add any momentum codes or something to the up special?

I'm not certain, but most likely. What I do know is that Sonic and Snake use a different method than you have here, using LA-Bit[61]. When set to true, midair jump and special move commands are not recognised, and the character lands with the SpecialFall landing animation with uninterruptible landing lag. The thing to watch out for is that, if you don't clear it on the Wait1 as well as the landing, they will immediately go into that state again when they jump a second time if they end their Up Special on the ground. So be careful of that. And of course it has to clear on Swim as well. Basically you just set it at the very start of the animation.

@Tidus: I put it in Sonic's Neutral Special without problems. It might have issues with certain characters that I don't know about, so there's that to be careful of too.

We don't know if Sonic has something in particular that allows him to use that LA Bit as opposed to Mario or something. That's why.

None as far as I know of. It was just recently that I found out about the glitch. I didn't actually edit the Asynchronous Timer for the Bit to happen at frame 40 (the last frame of her Up Special now) until after finding a glitch. She still had the weird floating for me when she still had the original Up B animation.

But yeah as I said, I thought moving over the Asynch timer to the last frame of the new animation would fix it, haha.

 Wow. Wasn't expecting another glitch. Honestly, as much as I've played her, I've never ran into this problem before. I'll try to test this glitch out to see if I get the same problem you guys are getting.

EDIT:Okay, I know its probably because I'm playing with her on PM, but I'm not getting any of those glitches you mentioned. I'm actually really trying to make them happen. I might try with vBrawl.

Same thing with me actually. I ran into it on accident myself. I only got it when a Level 9 CPU edge-guarded me, but I went past them and barely made it to the surface of the stage (vBrawl still by the way). I suppose it's a good thing that I had to TRY and make it happen again, but at the same time I don't think it's good to have it happen at all.

That's true. I'm gonna test her in vBrawl now and see if I get those results or not.

EDIT: Still couldn't get it to happen man. Dunno what conditions you were in but I couldn't recreate the glitch myself.

Another thing to look at might be Lucario's Up Special. If you've noticed, he can't use it consecutively on the ground. He has to jump and land again first before he can use it a second time, whether aerial or grounded. It turns out that, if you remove the helpless fall, he cannot use it twice in the air either. He can, however, use it on the ground and enter the air, and then use it in the air again. So whatever Bit Variable is doing that, maybe you can use it here?

It happens at the very end of Lucina's Up B. If you hold up during the whole move, Lucina floats up slightly at the end of the slash. If you land during that part of the animation, you'll freeze at that frame and then you'll just slide around until you fall off/get hit.

I tried that and it never happened to me. I tried for like 20 minutes on different stages and platforms. Never happened, so I don't know whats wrong but I'm not getting that little problem at all. Maybe I'm lucky or something. I never edited her Up Special from the ones you guys have either.

I'm pretty sure it was just me that's edited the PSA since then, no worries. I only edited it to begin with because this problem happened before. Then I ended up giving her a new animation later on, but yeah.

In any case, I know for certain at base, Marth always had that happen where if you hold up he would always gain a bit of extra momentum after the end of the Up B. It went in the opposite manner if the control stick is held down right afterward, he would fall earlier.

I guess if it could be edited so that Lucina has absolutely no momentum right after the animation ends, maybe that would fix it? If so, where in the Up Special offset would I put the change?

I dunno. Maybe towards the end of it.

Why not use VBrawl Marth's up special animation and see if it works?

I just wanna re-state my suggestion about using Lucario's Up Special for reference. Also check his landing and landinglight while you're at it to see if you can find where it clears the variable. I'll do some testing and checking around myself if I get time today.

theres no point checking that... lucario up special does not clear stuff in the open same for most moves, since they are commanded by floating points wich is all undercover code except for some values

This.

Lucario's Up Special does something fancy in addition to sending him into helpless fall. This "something fancy" prevents him from using Up Special twice consecutively, and causes uninterruptible landing lag with both jumps and aerial attacks. (That is, landing lag continues for the full duration of the landing animation, rather than the duration listed in the Attributes section.) It is cleared only on landing, swim, and damage. (Damage I presume is an automatic hidden clear, since it would have to clear so many things. Then again, that could mean that there are automatic clears on landing and swim, too, and the developers forgot to take the variable out when deciding to use helpless fall for Luc's Up Special.)

Floating Point Articles are how Extreme Speed's direction is controlled, right? So something else controls whether or not it can be used twice. Anyway, even if there are hidden automatic Clears for it (which I still think I/we should check), that doesn't mean we can't steal it for ourselves for Lucina and set manual Clears. Especially if we're lucky and it auto-Clears for any character, not just Lucario.

Also, if I get time, I could also try replacing Marth's helpless from Up Special with LA-Bit[61] from Sonic and see if it causes freezing. If it doesn't cause freezing during initial testing, it will probably work fine reliably. There probably aren't any incompatibility problems if it works once, after all. (Then again, Brawl is screwy like that.)

that doesnt work ... you cant take a byte used for one character and use it on another, charcters who dont go helpless with their up special all use the same byte, if you try it on any character that doesnt have this add bu default it wont do crap, same if you even found out lucario up special bit since, same for all the bits like attack 100 bite only works if the character already has one and so on, if you never psaed you shouldnt make these assumptions, there is a reason every psa makes a false no more up special after one use, false attack 100 and so on, the bits dont work unless the character has those  already.

As a matter of fact, I have done a bit of PSA before, and I know that you have to custom-make false Attack100s, false glides, false wall-jumps, false tethers, etc. Thing is, those all have to be faked because not all characters have the appropriate action/subaction. I assumed Sonic's LA-Bit was universal because I couldn't find a different Fall action to be associated with it. Same with Lucario, since he also doesn't appear to have a secondary Fall action.

Sonic uses the same la-bit as every character that doesnt go helpless on up special and it doesnt work on the other chars that dont have that already set up.

they dont need to have a diferent subaction/action since theres nothing to be seen animations,characters that use the up special and dont go helpless dont have a  special animation they just use their fall.

Okay, well it seems that I was inadvertently able to fix the Up Special's glitch with a few edits to the animation itself. Now she has a fixed momentum for her Up Special, and... well the glitch does not seem to be happening anymore. I think she should be A-okay for release soon!

Horray, finally! Hope nothing else impedes this.

Agreed xp

I thought that the end of the animation was intentional (with the floaty part at the end).

At least it's good enough to be shipped out.

Ok this might sound completely weird because I'm downgrading but, does this PSA work with the old Lucina model? I know you made this revamp because it didn't work with the new one but I just cannot stand that new model's eyes. Just wondering if it has backwards compatibility.

Should be.

I think it should work. Just port the PSA over to the old Lucina model.

It's possible that it does... If it works with this one, why not with the old one?

Because he mentioned that the new model didn't work with the PSA until he made the 2.0. If he did the 2.0 work based on the new model I assumed the reverse had a chance of happening.

This new PSA should definitely work with the old Lucina model. The main reason why the old PSA did not work with the newer models was due to the overall file size being too large. This PSA has a much smaller Motion File in comparison (originally ~3,800, now to be ~3,400, which contributes to the majority of the size as is).

The new models are overall larger in file size compared to the old one, so actually there's probably less of a chance of issues happening if you use the PSA with the old model.

EDIT: Oops, 3,000 range not the 5,000 range. The difference is all the same though, lol.

Also, reducing all textures by half will make the newer models work well.

You must've remove alot of keyframes in this Motion file... Lol

That I did, hahaha. I made sure it was only in certain motions that would not mess up the overall quality though. It works with every Lucina model without having to reduce the quality of the textures, so that's good!

Hey CrazyHand. Just wondering how things are coming along. You know, if you had finished all the edits you wanted to add to Lucina.

EDIT: Well I saw that new YouTube video you uploaded. Nice job on the Up Special. It looks good. I see you also added a few extra SFX's to her as well.

Thanks! I will say that there is not too much left to do now with changing her up (although those computer problems certainly slowed my effort), I really want to see if I can find a way to make it possible to give her a slot of her own with BrawlEx before I release her. I figure most people do not want to replace Marth anyway.

yeah I suppose that makes sense. Its getting more and more popular every day. I still haven't even tried it yet. All though I do have a few premade packs.

Just saw the vid you put up.

Does Lucina still float up a bit during her up special?

It feels so disjointed on her, in my opinion.

She does. It is a fixed amount that cannot be affected by what direction you are holding th Control Stick now though. It definitely has its purposes, like how the extra vertical boost can more easily get a hit in with her Up Air, which KOs at higher percentages.

At least, that's how I see its purpose, haha.

Like I said, it just doesn't feel right when it happens. Almost as if it should have happened. Just my opinion, though.

marth has momentum floating points for his up special so i guess you need to null those  if you dont want to float or change her up special subactions to another subaction.

Dude, she is [censored]ING AMAZING!!!!!

Do you happen to know why I wouldn't be able to open Lucina's .pac file with Smash Attack?

Because it was remade with Brawlbox v0.68b. The only reason it wouldn't be usable.

Although, I did once find a Sonic moveset that would crash both PSA and BrawlBox v0.67b when I tried to open it, but still worked fine in-game.

What's going on CHMH? Are you still working on Lucina?

Just released on the vault, I believe.

Congrats.

Like... right here... lol...

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=204448 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=204448)

I should've help to the realization of this beauty

You probably should have said that I did "animation fixes" instead of putting "animations". I can't do good animations, just saying. XD

Haha, I suppose so. I meant it in general terms of course, but you know ^^

I was able to get some help from DSX8 for the Sword Glow glitch on Lucina's Down B. This is what he said.

For the sword glow.. Open FitMarth.pac file, go to modeldata[0] and expand the mdl0 and go into the material folder. Click on the only material there and on the right side, look for a CullNone, and change that to CullAll.

That should be one little glitch out of the way for ya. he said it shouldn't affect any other move that uses the Sword Glow graphic. Hope it helps.

yeah i pretty much showed Naoto when he was chilling at my place.. he showed me the error and i decided to look up on it.. now im not sure if it was needed for any attack animations or not... but its gone from the down special

I tested it out. Basically the sword trail is still there but the glow model isn't. I don't think it's that big a deal really. It looks fine to me.

Just recently tried out Lucina and have a bit of feedback. All comments are about normal (vBrawl) Lucina.

— Jab combo should actually combo, since it doesn't loop the way Marth's does.
— Her midair jump is really weak, especially compared to her first jump, which makes playing as her kind of finicky.
— Side B has a really short and kind of finicky window for its various follow-ups. Kind of annoying to accidentally just stand there posing repeatedly when I'm trying to use Pavise/Aegis.
— Pavise/Aegis doesn't deal anywhere near enough knockback on the attack. I personally think that on a grounded opponent, it should be a hard spike so it flinches them in place for a follow-up, possibly even another Side B variant (but obviously not another Pavise/Aegis, because infinite combos aren't cool). Versus aerial opponents, it should have enough knockback to get them off of you, but not enough to KO.
— Down B is an amazingly good move.
— It's fun to press Up B instead of using the C-stick to perform Up Aerial, because it still uses the GFX and SFX from Up B. Plus, it lets her spam Up Aerials at ground level as long as you just input Up B repeatedly.
— Neutral B in the air has a little too much startup before the drop, even uncharged. Also, sometimes the sword trail decides not to show up. I'm wondering if maybe frame speed multipliers are the issue.
— Neutral B on the ground doesn't have the sword trail that it has in the air, for some reason. Also, it doesn't seem to have as tall a hitbox as it looks like it should. As in, there's a spot where the sword should've had to have passed through during the slash, but there's no hitbox there. Again, I'm guessing frame speed multipliers.
— I can't figure out if her attacks still have tippers or not. Up Smash seems to always be tippered based on the SFX, while Forward Smash seems to never be a tipper hit.
— Initial hit of her grounded Final Smash should come out sooner. Like, she dashes straight up to the foe, and then there's what feels like a half-second delay before the initial stab.
— Initial hit of her grounded Final Smash should only heal her on hit.
— Final Smash should have timeslow for the entire duration of the startup pose, so they can't just jump over you during startup so easily.
— Aerial Final Smash might benefit from being slowed down just a little bit if possible (so the hits can be seen more cleanly), as well as having brighter and bigger GFX and an enforced black background. (I think there's a way to make the lighting black, like in Meta Knight's Final Smash?)
— Aerial Final Smash should probably only go into the full combo if the first hit connects. That way, you can't just press B to go into a full dramatic combo where you're not hitting anyone that eventually leads to the foe (who's presently way above you and out of range of the rest of the attack) being KO'd on the final jump.
— Some of her voice clips have noticeable audio quality issues.

For the N B stuff. It really a timer thing, not a FSM thing. For both the GFX and Main section, all you need to do is change the asynchronous timer to 11 and make another one to like 20 frames for the hitboxes and GFXs to end. That's what I did. It fixes the graphics for the move and makes the attack strike air or ground enemies.

I agree with you on the FS stuff though. I just never got around to coding that stuff in. The Air FS should have an If Hitbox Connects code for the first strike. That actually makes sense. I did try adding a screen tint to make it really dark, but I messed it up and never tried to get it to work. I'll see if I can work on that again to get the correct result. Thanks for the input.

For my comments on Pavise/Aegis, change "hard spike" to "weak spike". You don't want to knock them down, you just want them to flinch in place for a really long time. Although, forcing knockdown with a knockback angle around 290° would be pretty cool and give the move quite a bit more "oomph", especially with the voice clips she uses for the attack.

well u do know that there isnt that much sfx files for lucina right? :p

so its all pretty bad clips.. idk if SJS is still trying to rip them

I have all of Lucina's Attack and Critical voice clips recorded directly from the game using a two-way audio cable and Audacity, as well as a compilation file with all of her dual support/dual guard/dual strike/skill activation/victory quotes. All we're missing is her three flinch voice clips, her two death quotes, and that crazy scream she does in that one flashback cutscene with Grima (I think we actually have that, but the audio quality is terrible.) Grabbing that "Help!" she does in the Chapter 1 cutscene might be nice, too.

Edit: Correction, it appears I currently only have one of her Critical voice clips, but I can get the other two easily enough.

Cool, if you can get all those clips we may be able to get a full voice of her over Marths without any empty spaces. As for the Aegis/Pavise thing, I'll look into it.

I'll have to start a new file (again) and go back to chapter 4 (again) for Masked Marth's death quote. Oh well. And I'll have to hopefully find a streetpass team with Lucina on it so I can beat the crap out of her repeatedly for flinch voice clips and her death quote.

I don't ever post on this site as I'm usually on Smash Boards instead, but I wanted to give some feedback and I figured this would be the best place to do so. Anyway, here's what I observed:

Animation:
- The cape moves far too much during the idle in comparison to other characters and it clips.
- There is little transition between the end of the 'wait' animation back to the idle.
- A second wait animation might help delay the constant sighing heard from her current wait animation.
- Leg movement is awkward on the combo, and the sword trails are not smooth.
- Down attack (the kick) has unnecessary foot movement (or at least unnatural looking) at the very end of the animation when transitioning back to the crouch.
- The down smash sword trail is not smooth upon start-up, and the sword moves erratically in her hand for a split second during the transition back to idle.
- Her up air looks fine in slow motion, but odd at normal speed as there is so much body movement in such a short amount of time.
- The transition from up air back to the fall animation is jerky.
- Neutral special could benefit from a sword trail while grounded, especially due to how odd the move looks when performing it just as you hit the ground as most of the animation is skipped, and there is no sword blur.
- Extra keyframes on the neutral special would make it look smoother, although it is by no means bad as it is now.
- The side special (is it still called dancing blade?) could be made a bit visually smoother with more animation frames to transition between each hit. It isn't outright bad or anything, but I personally feel it could be improved a bit more.
- The sword trail on the aerial side special flashes in and out when facing right.
- Animation on consecutive up specials is jarring, and the sudden/large sword trails looks especially odd.
- There is no transition from the idle animation to side taunt at start-up.
- The intro animation/up taunt circle effect has a square boarder surrounding it.
- The win animation where Lucina flips before landing has a sudden transition to her final pose.

Gameplay:
- As JamietheAuraUser mentioned, the combo does not link together properly.
- The down attack (the kick) has a bit too much end-lag to use effectively, as you can't combo out of it and it leaves you defenseless for too long.
- The absurd amount of recovery Lucina gets with her up special is, well... absurd. Not only that, but on stages with sloped sides, she doesn't even need to be positioned correctly as she just slides up the side of them right up to the ledge. Plus, she can attack out of it with no drawbacks. In Project: M for example, when Sonic uses his up special, he can use aerial attacks during his decent, but not specials. Considering the crazy horizontal recovering potential she has with her side and down specials already, combining that with an overpowered up special post usage seems a bit unfair.
- To further discuss the up special, I think it should be retooled entirely. It needs to be shorter for balancing, and effective as an attack. Something like a simplified version of Metaknight's side special (but up vertically oriented), with directional influence comes to mind. This is an on the spot recommendation, so it might not fit your vision of the character, but it is just an example as I don't quite agree with how the up special is being utilized currently.
- To again concur with JamietheAuraUser, Lucina's side special is rather difficult to use, especially when you're being pressured by an opponent.
- The side special move performed at 0:52 of the new trailer video I wasn't able to replicate (I'm not sure as to the correct sequence of inputs), but the amount of movement during that animation looks to be a bit much.
- You can't grab the ledge using the aerial side special or down special (not that they both need to grab ledge), limiting their potential off-stage.

Technical:
- The sounds are low quality, yes, but the real problem is the mixing. Sound levels are all over the place, often too loud more than anything.
- Have you considered combing announcer sound clips to create a Lucina announcer call, similar to what  WarioMANX did awhile back?


Well, that does it for my initial impressions. Sorry if this was overly negative, but I just wanted to state what I felt could be improved, instead of focusing on what I liked in an attempt to be more helpful. Hopefully what I mentioned can be of use. Keep up the good work, everyone!

Not being able to grab with the Up special feels out of place when compared to the default Brawl characters.

I also don't understand what the side special does. I've tried using it like Marth's, charging it, using it as a space counter, hitbox counter, basic offensive attack, and the notepad doesn't outline how to execute it so... I'm a bit lost.

The Down special confuses me too. It advances without fear of being struck, but it's nothing a well placed roll can't suffice to do, especially since there's a cool down time after it that makes it difficult to use offensively, which feels weird since this is an overall more offensive version of Marth. Also, it being mapped to Down Special just feels strange... unless I'm not doing something right...

Everything else is perfect, but these two specials are head scratchers... :/ could someone explain them perhaps?

@Friesnchip: Up Special on consecutive uses is actually just Up Aerial. Up Special does have one drawback in that it forces landing lag. But yes, she does get very good horizontal recovery between Up Special, Pass (Down Special) and Ignis (Side Special).

Aether (Side Special Up) is designed to replicate its behaviour in Fire Emblem Awakening. The character performs an initial approaching attack, then backsteps and slices through the target. The move had to be sped up to make it combo properly in Brawl.

@Nebulon: Side Special works a little like Marth's, but the timing is different. When you press Side B, Lucina strikes her Skill Activation pose from Fire Emblem Awakening. From there, different combinations of the Control Stick and B activate different moves:
-- Neutral B after the activation grants a single hit dealing 10% damage with minimal knockback, during which Lucina has Super Armour. This move is designed to imitate the Pavise and Aegis skills from Awakening.
-- Down B after the activation deals five rapid strikes that each deal low-ish damage. This move is based on the skill Astra.
-- Up B after activation deals two hits: an initial stab, followed by a slice through. The second hit has great kill power and covers quite a bit of distance. This move is based on the skill Aether.

Down Special is neat because of its increased range compared to a dodge. It's also great if your opponent tries to use a projectile, or goes for a powerful attack with a lot of endlag. I like using it to dash past a foe, then hit them with Forward Smash from behind. It's based on the skill Pass, which allows a character to move through an opponent's space.

I'll try my best here. The Side Special is a move that links into 3 other moves, but not the same way that Marth's does. The timing is a little difficult to get down at first, but once you do, it's fairly simple to execute.

Basically once you do her first side special, about half way through the animation press either Side B again for a counter of sorts, it's pretty much an on command counter strike. So you don't have to wait for someone to attack you first. Up B which is a weaker version of her FS. The first hit stuns the opponent, the second knocks them back as a normal strike would. Down B which is a five hit combo, is a good move to pressure people into corners or off the stage.


Her Down Special is basically what you'd think. A command dash. Personally I think it's faster than roll dodging, and I think it moves a bit farther too with more invincibility frames to boot.

Hopefully this helps. It would be great if CrazyHand would chime in and help me a little here, but I'm sure he's busy.

A lot of the descriptions are exactly true to what Naoto-san said. I wanted to reply more, but my internet is moving really slowly right now. My browser finally loaded this page fast enough for me to get here >.<

Hopefully it will speed up by tomorrow, but yeah I am actually trying to make a demonstration video more like the v1 & v1.5 versions of Lucina to help out with the understanding the moveset. The moveset IS a lot more complex to use compared to earlier Lucinas!

Here are all the Lucina voice clips I have at the moment. Includes all three Attack clips, one of her Crit clips, several of her battle quotes separated out, and a compilation mp3 of all her battle quotes.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx0wbBf5cddIcDBBWDM0R1pQYkk/edit?usp=sharing

Sweet. Hopefully someone who can do decent audio hacks can work with these. I would, but I don't have experience with that stuff. Thanks though Jamie.

I may give it a shot if no one else has in a week or so.
I may forget, so feel free to remind me whenever.

If only I could get Sawnd to work, this would've been done a long time ago...

I've been replacing sounds using BrawlBox, but for some reason even if I'm careful to replace sounds only with shorter sounds (in terms of sample count), the filesize of Smashbros_sound.brsar still jumps by over 100 kb. And I can't try using Super Sawndz, 'cause that requires some files that don't come with it and that I have no idea where to get.

Edit: Also, I've shortened quite a few sounds using Audacity to trim down the sample counts to their equivalent in the current Lucina sound pack. Here's the new link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx0wbBf5cddIVXZlcm4zM1hYMXc/edit?usp=sharing

u srs m8?

Run the regular Sawndz, there will be 3 files that get generated. Without exiting out of Sawndz, copy those three files and then paste them into the directory with Super Sawndz. Then you can exit out of Sawndz and you'll live happily ever after.

Well, it never TOLD me that. So thanks for telling me. Anywho, I figured out what the problem was anyway, and it was a similarly noobish mistake: I forgot to convert everything to mono.

Edit: Got Lucina's other two Critical voice clips and have mono versions of everything.
Link is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx0wbBf5cddIQjNmVFdzUldxems/edit?usp=sharing

Wow, the quality is definitely improved, great work.

Hey guys,
Im really new to modding. I really like this hack but I'm running Project M right now.
Can someone help me insert the files correctly into my SD card (im running a hackless PM) so that i dont screw up?
I'm downloading it to replace Dedede but have no clue how to replace the sounds, sfx and rel files correctly. I also have no clue how to work with port codes.
I did start this thread: http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=68842.0 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=68842.0)
and received help but it didnt work end the end...
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

@Friesnchip:
And not only that...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx0wbBf5cddIcWh2YVllLVNjT00/edit?usp=sharing
Contains a Sawnd file for my current Lucina voice after putting things together. (Still lacks Lucina's hurt voices and her death quotes.) I don't think Sawnd files contain the volume settings, however, so you'll have to do a bit of work on that in BrawlBox. The new voices I added had to have their volume set to 155 or so for regular attack voices, 140 for her FS quote, 120 or so for other voiced lines, and 145 for victory quotes.

Also contains some edits to Lucina:
-- Neutral B GFX works correctly for the grounded version, but as a result is now screwed up for the aerial version.
-- Astra (Side B Down) now has sword glow on all five hits. Final hit uses a random attack voice clip instead of one specific clip. First hit also has a random attack voice clip now.
-- Pavise/Aegis (Side B Neutral) has the timing for the voice clip changed to better match up with the strike. More importantly, it also spikes the foe straight down with fixed knockback, causing them to flinch in place for a really long time if on the ground. I think it's currently possible to legit combo Pavise into Astra with proper timing, but it's really hard to do. I was too lazy to duplicate the hitboxes and make versions that only hit aerial foes and versions that only hit grounded foes. Besides, it's not strong enough to hard-spike anyone not named DK or Bowser.
-- Final Smash now slows time for the duration of the camera close-up, making it a little harder to avoid.
-- Jab actually combos at higher percents, and can be crouch-cancel combo'd for a few hits. This should probably be made into a fixed-knockback move.

@JamietheAuraUser
I'm trying to test out your new files, but my game keeps crashing with them on my SD card. Any idea why this is happening? I'm using P:M, if that makes a difference.

Edit: Also, comparing the new FitMarth.pac to the old, there seems to be a new texture called 'FB' that is just a .png image with the letters 'F' and 'B'. What is that about?

 What mod you use shouldn't matter when it comes to SFX hacks.

The Lucina version I made edits to is the vBrawl version, so that might be why.

If it's sound that's causing the crashing, I have no clue. They work fine for me. Maybe the sound files aren't cooperating with other sound hacks you're using? (As in, the total Smashbros_sound.brstm size is over the limit, as opposed to just being over the limit for one particular character.) P:M contains a whole bunch of audio edits as I recall, as well as new voices for Roy and Mewtwo. Also, there's the possibility that Super Sawndz screwed something up when creating the file.

A new texture? Odd, I didn't do anything texture-related. All I modified was the Subaction scripts, to the best of my knowledge. I've seen an "FB" texture in other PSA hacks, too, which is interesting. I edited it using BrawlBox v0.67b, because PSA wouldn't open it, so it might just be something that BrawlBox adds automatically for whatever reason.


IMPORTANT EDIT: The previous Sawnd file did not work and still contains Lucina's old SFX. Working on getting the new one up. Super Sawndz has a really irritating glitch where you have to delete sawndz.sawnd every time or else it'll keep copying it on top of itself and calling it the new patch. (Instead of, you know, whatever sounds you actually wanted to make a patch of.)

Edit2: Alright, fixed. The previous link should now take you to the new and correct Lucina voice patch.

Deleted and reposted for bump.

Edit3: I've been messing around with vBrawl Lucina, and I discovered a few things:

1. Even without my edits, it's possible to combo out of Astra at low percents. You can follow with Up Smash, which deals 26% total. You can follow with Up Special, which deals 25% total. And if the foe DIs wrong, you can follow Up Special with an aerial for even more damage.

2. Even without my edits, it's possible to follow Aether with Down Smash at low percents. This deals a nice, shiny 29% total.

3. After my edits, Pavise/Aegis does indeed combo into either Astra or Aether. At low percents, you can then combo out of Astra or Aether as described above. Pavise > Astra > Dash > USmash deals 36%. Pavise > Astra > Up Special deals 35%. And if your foe DIs exactly wrong, you can follow Up Special with UAir, making it an 8-hit combo for a total of 44% damage. Pavise > Aether > DSmash deals 39%, though the game doesn't actually register it as a combo. (The combo "breaks" after the first hit of Aether, but the full attack sequence is still inescapable due to the Aether stun.)

4. After my edit, Pavise/Aegis can cause tripping occasionally, even though I didn't modify the trip rate above the standard 0%. That's due to the 270° knockback angle. If Pavise trips the foe, the game will register Pavise > Aether > DSmash as being a true combo. (It's inescapable either way, as stated above.)

Keep in mind, all of these tests were done in Training Mode, so the Freshness Bonus and Stale Move Negation may affect whether these combos actually work in a match. Also, all were done with the foe starting at 0%. At higher percents (generally above 20% at combo start), the knockback can be too great for the combos to work. Then again, Stale Move Negation might make it so they actually do work at those higher percents.

I watched a video of someone who uploaded a game with Lucina

And holy god is her recovery waaaay too good. Either reduce the height of her jumps, or make her fall even faster.

Not going to comment on the other moves, because imho she could use much, much, more balancing.

Honestly, I thinks she's fine the way she is. Her recovery is good but its not guaranteed. Anyone can just knock her out during those moves.

@JamietheAuraUser
I tested out the new sawnd file, and my game no longer crashes! I couldn't tell you what exactly changed, but I'm not complaining. However, nearly all of Lucina's clips are extremely quiet - nearly inaudible in fact during combat. Considering your explanation earlier about the preset sound levels, why would sounds in the same group classification be at different volumes if the base sound clips were recorded from the same source?

Also, now that I'm able to test the new PAC file, I can say that the sword trails look much cleaner than with the old 1.5 effects (which I was using previously). I still like the old trails though due to how well they accompany Lucina's exhalted sword, so I'm gonna see if I can combine the two to make some kind of happy medium.

@Zed
While I agree with you, Lucina's playstyle is extremely combo based - she doesn't really have any high power kill moves or the ability to consistently gimp opponents, so she will need an above average recovery and high mobility in order to stand a chance in Brawl, and especially Project: M. That said, yes, there does need to be some balancing.

@Naoto-san
On certain stages with sloped edges, especially oddly shaped sides like Fountain of Dreams or P:M's Final Destination, she actually slides up them in a way that is very difficult to stop. Also, her sword pokes through ledges at an angle, she often has enough recovery to pop over the ledge to disregard any attempt at edge-guarding, and her horizontal recovery options can save her if she gets hit again. If a character doesn't have a great air game to be able to go under a stage to stop her, she most likely is getting back.

How would I implement Lucina into PM and replace only DDD? I've tried with the code porting etc. and it still freezes.

The previous Sawnd file caused crashing because it wasn't the correct one. I had previously used Super Sawndz to apply the old Lucina voice patch, and Super Sawndz did not delete the resulting Sawndz.sawnd file. So when I went to create a patch for my voice edits, all Super Sawndz did was copy the data of Sawndz.sawnd, paste it onto the end of Sawndz.sawnd, then create a copy of Sawndz.sawnd and call that the patch. So all it contains is the old Lucina voice two times over. When I noticed this, I went and deleted Sawndz.sawnd, then told it to create a patch and it actually did this time.

Total list of sounds I replaced:
— Voice clip used for Up Special.
— All three quotes used for Side Special Neutral. ("That's enough!" is replaced with "My turn!")
— Final Smash quote.
— Entry/Down Taunt quote.
— Her two win quotes.
— Six of her seven Attack voice clips.
— Jump voice clip.

Regarding volume: The fact of the matter is, the only sounds I recorded myself were the three Attack clips and the three Critical clips. The others I took from that large compilation file of battle quotes, which was done by somebody else and thus has slightly different audio levels. In fact, it's actually a little louder than mine.

As for how quiet the Attack and Critical clips in particular are, I had my 3DS at maximum volume and they came out even quieter than that when recorded in Audacity. I didn't want to risk using any more gain than I already have for fear of reduction in sound quality.

Regarding Lucina's recovery, she has serious issues with vertical recovery and I've found is quite easy to edge-hog. At least, that's true of vBrawl. Her Up B has quite a bit of range, but the hitbox doesn't carry all the way to the end of the height gain and she falls really fast, so by the time she knocks you off the ledge with an aerial it's already too late for her to grab it. Plus, she's seriously lacking in terms of standard vertical platforming, as she falls very fast and her jumps are quite short.

I think I found a glitch with Aether in the PM version (dunno if it's the same in vBrawl though): if you do the move near the edge of the stage/platform and your opponent shields it you'll just keep going past him and won't stop until you reach the blast edge of the stage (so basically it's a free KO if he blocks it).

I think the same happened with Astra once but I can't replicate it.

The sounds of a majority of the attacks are severely muted with the exception of some sounds standing out due to sharp peaks in the sounds making them loud.

With the new voice files that I uploaded, or the old ones? The new ones are really quiet, yeah. You'll have to turn the volume way up on them using BrawlBox, from what I've found. To about 150 for the regular attack clips, and 120 or so for actual lines of dialogue. And around 140 for the FS quote. If only Sawnd files also exported volume settings...

In addition to what Jackos found, it seems if you shield immediately after L-canceling (in Project: M, obviously) Lucina will go into a T-pose for a second.

Also, I noticed Lucina's sword will spasm when transitioning back to her idle after missing a grab.

Shoot me a download link, I want to see if I can fix the second problem

Well, all I'm using is the base Project: M PSA: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=204448 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=204448)
And JamietheAuraUser's updated Sawnd and PAC files: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx0wbBf5cddIcWh2YVllLVNjT00/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx0wbBf5cddIcWh2YVllLVNjT00/edit?usp=sharing)

Edit: Actually, I figured out the problem. JamietheAuraUser's PAC file is for vBrawl, which causes L-canceling and dash dancing to be a bit messed up. After switching back to the original P:M PAC file included in the base download, everything works fine again. My bad, I suppose.

The Pac file I uploaded was the one for vBrawl, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if it behaves oddly in Project: M. (Like, for example, T-posing on L-cancel into shield. That could also be from BrawlBox screwing something up, since it occasionally does that.)

I think the second problem is because Lucina's grab animation doesn't transition to her wait.

That and the bone translation on the sword for the Catch animation is around -400 while on the wait it's at 80 or something.

@JamietheAuraUser
Yep, I just figured that out actually, although my post edit was a bit too late. With that said, do you think you could make the edits on your vBrawl PAC for the P:M version as well? I'm messing around with making new sword trail textures, so having the grounded shield breaker's trail working (along with your other fixes) would be really nice.

@Zed
Yeah, quite a few more animation transitions need to be fixed, actually.

I might be able to check it out tomorrow and see if I can make heads or tails of Project: M stuff.

Also, Naoto-San posted earlier in the thread on how to make the GFX, hitboxes, and SFX work for the ground version of Neutral Special. It just involves changing certain timers to 11 and others to 20, instead of 16 and 26-ish where they are now. Only thing is, the aerial version currently references the ground version's SFX and GFX tabs, so any edits to GFX and SFX on the ground version will screw up the aerial version. Someone should separate those out to fix them.

Yeah I forgot to mention that you need to separate them. Whoops. But just copy/paste the GFX's from the grounded one and adjust the timers and you're good.

Lucina's shadow is currently still Marth's (yes, it took me this long to notice). As I've never really messed around with shadows before, is this something difficult to fix?

Not to sound rude, but does it matter? How often are you looking at the characters shadow? Especially during a match. Also that's a modeling thing. not a PSA thing. We didn't make the Models, SJS and Albafika did.

It matters for sake of completion.
...
Yep.

Then blame the modelers.

But don't really, they did too good a job on her to complain. Honestly, it's really not that big a deal.

I just like complaining is all.

I know you do. But not more than procrastinating! :af:

Shushhhhhhh.
No one needs to know that D:

I'm pretty sure a lot on here already do. You'll be fine.

Speaking of Lucina's model, the eyes are kinda messed up. Like, they're obviously stick-ons on the outside. Normally it's not noticeable in-game, but it can be seen during victory poses.

Again, that's up to SJS and Alba to fix if they are willing. Or any other modeler who wants to tackle giving her new eyes, or fixing these ones.

Whew, finally found some time to post on here. All right, anyway so about those Grab to Wait transitions... I think those should be fairly fixable! Maybe just a bit tedious because whenever I tried dealing with those, it seemed to me that it was always a problem due to it blowing up the overall Motion File's size by a good amount of KBs.

That said, any balancing suggestions for Lucina, please feel free to shoot them out on here! Any feedback is useful for improvement's sake (so long as it's not something like "Ehh..." or "Bleh.." or something that isn't really feedback, lol).

Also, I think I may have asked this already, but is there a way to give Lucina a Wall Jump without using a code (like the one I have now)? The Project M team members did it for Ike somehow, so it has to be possible I'd think.

I made that big list a few pages back of some things I'd like to see changed (mostly fixing animations transitions), but as far as balancing goes I'd really like to see the aerial side special/down special be able to grab ledge.

Lucina's vertical recovery may be far above average, but her horizontal recovery could be improved. Oh, and less end-lag on down tilt.

You know what I did to vBrawl Lucina's first jab? (set the KB angle down 5 degrees, turned the base knockback up slightly, and turned the knockback growth down slightly.) That needs to be an official thing, but the knockback angle needs to be down at least another 5 degrees.

And I've answered it before: yes

Right, I saw that earlier in the thread now. Hmm, so just let her snap onto the ledge with those then? I think I can do that :)

And the horizontal recovery... she goes a pretty good distance already with the Side B[Aerial]. In fact, I ended up nerfing her Down B in the air at some point because her horzontal recovery was too good! She originally could practically fly back to the stage at any distance even on Dracula's Castle in Project M. I'll consider it though, haha.

I think the end-lag on the Down tilt is already low isn't it? Actually, wait you mean the Project M version right? I think I did that just because her meteor is more effective in Project M than vBrawl. Not to mention it can be L-cancelled. I could probably increase the length of the animation, but lower the landing lag so at least it can't be used as often in the air. Would that work?

Also, would your suggestions be for both versions though or just one Lucina?

On your vBrawl version edit you did, yes? I agree that should be official. Thank you for your help in those extra edits by the way!

I see. Any suggestions for going about it then?

There should be tradeoffs for recovery. Her vertical recovery is way too good, she shouldn't have better horizontal recovery imo. Especially when you can move left and right with her up Special (it's still using Float Points from Dolphin slash).

Are you referring to her down air or down tilt? I'm talking about the grounded kick.

Well, Project: M mainly, but I am taking Brawl into consideration with my recommendations.

If Lucina is getting the ability to wall jump, I would assume her vertical recovery would be nerfed a bit to compensate. In that case, an improved horizontal recovery (at least the ability to grab ledges) would make more sense.

I noticed now. I realized too late though xp. In any case yeah, I can add less lag on the Down tilt.

She still doesn't need great or even good horizontal recovery. Her vertical recovery along with her floatiness (and literal float points) allow her to have really good horizontal recovery.

Just because it isn't a shield breaker-ish dash, doesn't mean it's not good.

I have the opposite problem with Lucina: Her horizontal recovery is amazing between Ignis, Pass, and Galeforce (I think that's the official name of her Up B?), but her vertical recovery is edge-hog bait due to the slight "pop" at the end of Galeforce and her insane falling speed.

That 'pop' is what makes her recovery so great on sloped edges and transferring to the next move. There could be a difference as to how the move functions between Brawl and P:M though, with the change in speed and physics. With that in mind, Lucina's falling speed is pretty average in P:M (even less than Marth/Roy I would say), not even comparable to fast-fallers like Fox and Falco.

Her vertical recovery is good, but her horizontal recovery is godly (at least from what I've played on PM), she literally cannot die from being thrown far from the stage unless she reaches a blast edge, she basically flies all over the place with Ignis.
Any idea on why the Aether shield glitch happens?

Lucina falls very fast for a vBrawl character, and that "pop" on her Up B can easily lead to her being edge-hogged. Its overall distance is good, but her ability to recover diagonally upwards is arguably worse than Marth's, between her increased falling speed and the lack of a hitbox at the end of her Up B. Marth midair jump + Dancing Blade + Dolphin Slash > Lucina midair jump + Ignis + Galeforce.

True, but that 'pop' cuts out a lot of possible end-lag to respond to any edge hogging. Still, I can see where Marth's hitbox would be superior in some cases.

Regarding the aerial side special, should it degrade in distance after each use? Like by the third consecutive use it hardly goes anywhere? Or I suppose it could be limited to just a one time attack per recovery. Along with the ability to ledge grab with side special and eventually wall jump, I'd say that'd be more balanced in theory.

I find if I go for an aerial after Up B, she falls so fast that by the time she completes the aerial, she's already below the ledge.

Side Special could be limited either to a single use per jump (so you can use it once in midair and again after a midair jump, potentially better for combos, but might still be OP for recovery), or so it only provides distance the first time it's used and you have to land to refresh it.

Edit: I prefer your first idea over my second idea. Another possible alternative: On the second use, she no longer retains aerial momentum after the attack and it sends her into Special Fall.

The fall speed must be a vBrawl thing, but you could also try down special to bypass ledge attacks.

Distance degradation in the air per usage (which landing refreshes of course) sounds more balanced than two full uses after each jump, especially considering the latter would probably be refreshed when wall jumping. Plus, it would add more strategy to aerial combos. The way I view it, the first use would be full distance, the second about half, and any after does just a tiny bit. Does this sound reasonable?

Edit: Ah, I just saw your edit. Hmm, I would need to be able to test your idea in-game to see how it felt during a match, but I think that'd work pretty well too.

Ledge attacks? Nonono, I mean the opponent doesn't actually have to time their ledge grab. For Marth, the opponent actually has to time the ledge grab so the invincibility frames will be in place when I Dolphin Slash. For Lucina, they can just grab the ledge at any old time, knowing that even if I force them off with an aerial I still plummet to my death due to falling speed.

As for Side Special, that definitely works out quite well for air combo fun. Even if vBrawl, Ignis > USmash is a true combo, and pretty fun to use. (But not as fun as Astra > Galeforce or Aether > DSmash.) I wonder if Ignis > Galeforce > Aerial is a legit combo? I haven't yet tried it.

Off-topic: I just realized that edge hogging is probably still a thing in SSB4 if you have a spike DAir, since the invincibility frames on ledge grab seem to be shorter the higher your damage percentage. Result: Mario is trying to recover and is at over 100% damage. Marth grabs the ledge before Mario reaches it. Mario grabs the ledge out from under Marth, and Marth immediately DAirs him for a KO.

Actually, Vert made the model. Albafika rigged it and I did the textures.

Oh, whoops. Sorry about the misinformation and confusion.

---

Post Merge: June 22, 2014, 11:46:07 PM

---

A little confused by this. How do you adjust the sounds volume exactly? I know it was a while ago but I'd like to have her audible at least.

I don't think you can do this in Brawlbox... But in Audacity, that's possible...

But he said use BrawlBox. I dunno. If there's one out there with already raised sounds then I'll definitely take it.

Maybe in the latest versions? I don't mess around with Sawnd so I wouldn't know for sure...

Sadly no. I tried and it didn't work. Dunno what he meant. That's why I asked.

Can you send me the wav files used for this? So I can mess around with them in Audacity?

Sure, hold on.

Edit:Damn it, wait a minute. I don't think I DLed those when Jamie posted them.

I have them... I'll work on it, and maybe finish them by this afternoon.

Alright cool, thanks

After patching your Smashbros_sound.brsar, open it in BrawlBox (I know for a fact that version 0.68d and later have the options you need, while version 0.67b does not).

— Then click the "snd" folder, then "vc", then "Marth".

— You should get a nice long list of Marth's sounds.

— Clicking on a sound will give you some information about it, including the in-game volume setting. Generally the volume should be sitting at around 46 by default for the standard attacking voice clips.

— Take any of the 000 to 009 numbered voice clips that isn't an actual line of dialogue and change the volume to around 150.

—  Take all of the 000 to 009 numbered sounds that are actual voiced lines and change the volume to about 120.

— Take her Final Smash quote and increase its volume to 140.

— Go through her Attack quotes (Attack01 through to Attack07) and just play them all to check volume. One of them will be obviously much louder because it's from Lucina's original voice pack, so change the volume of all the others to around 150.

— Go to her Appeal quotes and increase the volume of the only voiced Taunt (the one where she says "You will not stop me!") to about 120.

— Go to her Win quotes and change the volume on all of them except "Don't expect mercy from me!" to about 140 or so.

— Save the edited Smashbros_sound.brsar as a separate copy, then swap which one is on your SD card.

— Note: Changing the volume using the value in BrawlBox will not affect how loud the sound is in BrawlBox or in Super Sawndz. It only affects the playback volume of the sound in-game.

One question. I'm using the the new sound bank engine code with PM v3.02 and all that. I don't have a smashbros_sound.brsar on my SD card. Just sawnd files. So where would I put the Brsar?

I think I should check this out someday... Though I sent to Naoto-san a pack of SFX with a louder tone... Made in Audacity.

Yeah except that I suck with Super Sawndz so I have no idea what I'm doing.

Could I have that particular sound pack? I'm a noob at Audacity, and last time I tried to boost the volume much higher than it currently is the sound quality took a serious hit.

If you want to make a Sawnd file, I'm pretty sure you'll need a Smashbros_sound.brsar. You can use either Super Sawndz or BrawlBox to manually insert individual WAV files (through the insert file option in Super Sawndz, where you first have to specify Group ID, or through the Change Sound option in BrawlBox), then use Super Sawndz to make a .sawnd file of Marth's voice group (which happens to be 26, as I recall).

Yea, sure. Give me a second. I didn't try them in game, so I don't know if they're too loud... But I sure have slightly boosted the sound.

All I know how to do is Insert a Sawnd over and extract it. That's about it. Dunno how to Insert .wav's. I tried but nothing changed. With Super Sawndz that is. I must be doing something wrong.

Can't use Sawnd at all...

Oh, did I forget to link this one?:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx0wbBf5cddIQjNmVFdzUldxems/edit?usp=sharing

It has mono versions of everything, plus the other two Crit quotes. The ones you've provided won't work if you try to use them in-game, as they're still stereo. Fixing that would be a simple matter in Audacity, however.

What? You mean the sawnd file, or Super Sawndz?

Pretty sure he's referring to both Super Sawndz and the original Sawndz. Not the .sawnd file.

Oh. So do I need to still put the brsar into my SD card? I have no idea where it goes.

Thanks. I think there something else I need to fix with Audacity, which is the Bit Rate. I don't remember how to do that though...

Exactly. Or I wouldn't be able to hear Saber's cute voice r)

Are you using Gecko or Riivo? I think the brsar should be in the sound folder.

Gecko OS with the SD method. Does that even use the brsar? I've never seen it.

It doesn't.

Well that options out the window. Damn it. I guess the sawnd is the only way to go for me then.

@Naoto-san: I've never used the sound replacement engine you're using, so I don't know how it works. But for those who aren't using that and are using Riivolution (with the .xml that lets you use the File Replacement Code's folder tree), Smashbros_sound.brsar goes in SD:\private\wii\app\RSBE\pf\Sound, alongside the strm folder that holds custom music. Otherwise, I dunno how to help you.

But I'll try to get a Sawnd file working with decent audio levels and everything, if at all possible.

@AkenoS3: I never even bothered to reduce the bitrate. All her other sounds had a similarly obscenely high bitrate, and we weren't having any filesize problems there either. (Unless you did something to break it since.)

And to adjust the volume, did you just drag the amp slider up?

Basically it allows you to put the character sounds you want into a folder, so you hear them in game. Just insert the code into your gct, add a folder called sfx into the pf folder, and put your sawnd files in there. Easy as that. Much faster in my opinion.

Faster, but more difficult to customize. You know, if the original .sawnd maker can't be arsed to have decent audio levels (Sorry about that.) or if you want to change voice clips around.

Yeah, don't worry about it though. I'm pretty sure we all appreciate what you've done. I know I do.

I used the option "Amplification" (or whatever it's called for you), and carefully boosted the sound to make sure that it doesn't go berserk and cries in my ear. Not so hard, but do NEVER use the amp slider below the "solo" and "mute" options. It's gonna cry all around.
And, unless amplify the sound makes the the filesize going skyward, no I didn't add anything that could break it. No stupid effects like echo or things like that...

Huh... I've seen multiple "amplification"-esque settings in various menus in Audacity, one of which I couldn't figure out, and another of which didn't seem to do anything at all. And when it did, even when I specified a positive level of amplification, it simply set the volume for everything to 0. So for the slight amount of amplification I did, I did indeed end up using the amplification slider on the left. Which is why I didn't increase it very much, because when I tried that the quality took a sharp turn towards terrible.

I see what you mean... But, I tried to make it as correct as possible. I just need someone to test them and tell me if they were good enough...

So, has there been any progress as of late? It seems like you guys were headed to a solution for the sound problem, but nobody has posted for some time...

Edit: And, uh, as a side note - I just discovered that Lucina's aerial shield breaker can quite literally break a full shield in one hit, as well as cause some serious upward knock-back (at insta-kill speeds) depending of the opponent's position, size, and remaining amount of shield.

Lucina confirmed for Smash 4, whoo hoo! (And apparently we made a more unique one than the official one... great job everyone! lol)

Anywho, I'm working on fixes slowly but surely. I'm usually busy with other things as of late, but what I am definitely focusing on was the Aether glitch. I actually got it to happen for me, and although it was hilarious, I think I will have to change that move in some major way. Her overall recovery is definitely getting nerfed, but there will be further trade-offs in response. That's... all for now I guess, haha.

As always, I welcome any suggestions toward improvements and whatnot.

If I was a professional 3D model artist I could make an exact replica of Smash Bros 4 Lucina. The latest Lucina model that's on the vault...Her face is kinda...awkward...

I'm so glad that Lucina made it in the new Smash Bros. So so happy.

*jumps for joy*

^This.

It seems that the user SmashAmass from Smashboards is making some balancing edits to Lucina for the Project M: Unbound collaboration. Perhaps their work could be of some use in conjunction with the official PSA?

If you guys are still looking for extra hands to help out, it might be worth getting in contact with this user.

Hey CrazyHandMasterHand, just wanna say that you and your team (if I can call it that) have done some great work, this is easily the best PSA out there. I love what you've done and can't wait for the next update. There are just a few things on which I would like to comment, feel free to use what I say or ignore as this is just the observations of me and a couple friends, as I like almost everything about Lucina I'll just be posting some  observations that are a bit more critical because as I have said, I love everything else.

First off is the fact that her up smash seems to be lacking any real power and is unable to K.O unless fully charged, something that makes her a bit weak in the K.O category.

Secondly her wave dash (though fun) is not as effective a move as her counter, and (if she were on a tier list) would severely lower her rank.

She also lacks any grab combo's leaving her without any reliable source of adequate damage.

Finally her B-> combo's (love this concept by the way) are a bit slow to use and make it predictable to charge, if it was possible to make her use b-> instantly followed by whichever move you'd like to use, it would make her a much more serious threat while not making her overpowered.

That is all, again I love your work, and cannot wait for the next update, feel free to listen or ignore what I said because I'm sure I'll love your next update regardless. And totally psyched for Lucina in the next Smash Bros

I too am psyched for Lucina being in Smash 4. I also find it ironic that she has a veteran box in non-mobile smashbros.com websites after she was hacked into Brawl. It's as if they acknowledged her status as a veteran in Brawl mods, lol.

Anyway, your feedback really helps a lot! I can definitely work with this material actually. On that note, thank you for the praise on the PSA! This was a lot of fun to see come to fruition!

Glad I could help, even if it was in such a minor way as this :)

Oh ya, one last thing her A + A combo is a bit too slow to be usable in combat

I think it's funny that some people actually believe she isn't a newcomer in SSB4. It says so on her page. Just not on the main character screen. Anyway, if we can end up hacking SSB4 later on in it's cycle, I'll totally redo her Wait1 animation to match what she actually does. Like I did for her in this mod.

Not sure if this has been brought up before, but whenever I try to insert the Lucina announcer call into the Project M sawnd file, the game always crashes upon loading up.
By any chance do you have a working sawnd with Mewtwo and Roy's calls as well? It's annoying selecting the character and still having MARTH get called out.

I got it to work once, but never again. I forgot how I did it, but I think you need to delete that Sawnd file that pops up after replacing a sound in Super Sawndz before replacing another Sawnd/WAV file.

On an unrelated note, to Friesnchip, thanks for the heads up on SmashAmass! I contacted him on Smashboards and we are working on getting Lucina into a release of Project M: Unbound. Hopefully it all goes well! I am also working on balancing tweaks for Lucina's vBrawl versions specifically based off of a build that will go for her BrawlEx slot. I owe Kitsu-chan for that one as I am not good at at setting up BrawlEx, haha.

Well that's a bummer. I even tried to go as far to reduce the file-size of the .wav and consequentially the .sawnd, but no luck, crashes as soon as it gets past the loading screen.

Hopefully that PM Unbound version will include a working announcer call! If not someone else.

That's awesome, they did a great job with Pichu so I'm sure Lucina will be great, I'm even more excited for Unbound now!

Hey, no problem crazyhandmasterhand - just trying to do what little I can to help out. I've been monitoring the Unbound thread more closely since you've posted and it seems like you all are making steady progress. I'm eagerly awaiting the updated build and Lucina PSA.

Love what you did with Lucina. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff9yC8YqRtQ&list=UUiWmbcG5bu9Y3XoLKvnWuxA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff9yC8YqRtQ&list=UUiWmbcG5bu9Y3XoLKvnWuxA)

If anyone has a problem replacing Marth, there's a Marth over Diddy Kong in the vault that I use. The only problem is that Marth will have Lucina's voice if you get the voice for Lucina. lol

CrazyHandMasterHand, When will the Chrom PSA be released?

Soon TM

Look I know you're excited and everything but pestering everyone who has had a hand in making it isn't gonna get you results. Just stop and wait for them to release it. Also CHMH isn't even one of the main people working on him.

The only reason Chrom isn't done is because the custom model for him hasn't been released yet. Just give them time. It'll be done when it's done.

 :-X

Does this works with Project M 3.02?

^yes theres a project M version included in the download

Always a pleasure. :)

Project M: CrazyHandMasterHand (Lucina) vs. Mr. Me (Mewtwo) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXTj5jUvZkg#ws)

Hey CHMH. I made a couple a new changes to Lucina. I changed her CatchWait and CatchAttack animations so that they look a bit better. The way she would stand didn't make much sense to me. Also made a new lose pose for her, just because. Here are some .gifs.




Also made this new black texture for her. There's one with and w/o the face mask thingy.

Those are some nice animations! Awesome job as always Nao-chan :)
Oh and thanks for the video post Mr. Me, heh heh.

On a semi-related note, could I get some of you all (if you still hover around here every now and again) to download Project M Unbound? Here's a link to the post on Smashboards. They just released a new version: http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-unbound-beta-0-3-is-out.351320/ (http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-unbound-beta-0-3-is-out.351320/)

If possible, I'd like it if you guys could give some feedback on the Lucina build included in the pack. We got some feedback from Friesnchip on it already, so that's good, haha. I'm hoping that with some more feedback, I could chat with the team on how improve Lucina further and whatnot, so yeah. If any of you can make time for it, great! If not, that's fine too. Thanks!

CatchWait - Too much feet movement. Otherwise it's fine.

CatchAttack - Knee needs to be faster. Otherwise it's fine.

I'll re do the animations later. I was kinda just fixing the leg placement mostly. I already know it needs to be fixed up a bit more, but thanks.

@ CHMH I'll give it a look see and see if I can give you some feedback on her. How much did you change?

There are some changes present in that build. Admittedly, I only played a part in some of the changes, but regardless the gist of changes include an Up B nerf, Side B goes straight in the air now, Down B got nerfed, Neutral Air A & B are semi-cloned now.

I did not get as much input as I would have liked for the Side B ground moves, so the Lucina Aether/Astra flying-off-stage glitch still happens.

Ah, I see. So you didn't have the final say as to how she would be modded?

Speaking of Lucina, I just updated some of her animations to go more with her new Wait1. The one I updated after her initial release. I need to test it first but once I know that it's all good I will send the Fitmotion over to you.

Yeah. The current PM: Unbound Lucina build I believe was kept the way it was, primarily to see how her metagame will develop and whatnot. I wish some changes I implemented when putting edits in were kept though. One example is that I added in the changes to her A, A combo to make it link more reliably a la JamieTheAuraUser's changes, but it was changed back for the final release. Oh well.

Regardless, I am curious to see the reception on the Lucina build! With enough feedback, I'm sure better work can go in in trying to balance her playstyle, even if I end up with my own separate Project M version for some reason, hahaha.

Oh and I will be looking forward to those motion edits!

Ah, I see. Well that's unfortunate, but understandable. I'd like to see the changes you made to her A,A combo if that's cool with you.

Edit: Well looking through her animation file they certainly changed quite a lot. In the process of doing so they messed up the smoothness of some of the animations we had given her. Well that's gonna be a pain to fix.

Ooooohh. I just came up with a brilliant idea. If it hasn't already been done, how about adding a shine graphic on Lucina's sword during her initial Side B animation as  a cue for when you can access the other moves? I was thinking the shine effect that Marth normally had on his counter or Up taunt maybe. Could be a good visual aid for those having trouble getting used to the timing of it. What do you think?

I actually had a part in implementing something similar for the Unbound Lucina, but I had her become highlighted in blue for that, haha (I think the Unbound's actual release made her a darker hue of it though). So yeah, I agree!

Oh and sure, I can send you the file that had those changes for the A, A. I just need  to fish it out of a folder somewhere first. Pretty sure I know where it is though.

Cool sounds good. Send it to me when you get the time.

My review of Lucina after trying out Unbound.

Do you know what their goal is with this project?

I believe their goal is relatively simple. It's just Project M with more characters to play as =)

I see. Interesting. Well hopefully they can keep it up to date with PM when they release new builds. Also I got that Fitmotion done and tested. All is good so I'll send it later today.

Also, just realized something about the CatchAttack.

The leg needs to move up and forward. Right now, Lucina seems like she just bends her knee and that's it.

A bit the same for the Down Tilt... though it's less visible than the Catch Attack

I was planning on eventually reanimating that D-Tilt anyway. It definitely needs a fresher look to it.

I realize this is something that would require a lot of effort and only happen once Lucina becomes much closer to completion, but you don't suppose the crew over at LST (should I refer to the website as LST, or just the call the people involved part of LST?) would be interested in creating this as an alternate costume for the PSA?


I ran across the image on Smashboards and thought it was a rather fitting costume, although (presumably) Vert092 and SJS would have to agree if it were to be created.

Who the hell made that? It looks awesome. If that's an alt for her in SSB4 I'd like that very much. To answer your question, I think it would be great to add that as an extra costume. I'm not a modeler though so I wouldn't be able to make that myself.

Hey CrazyHand... I'm updating some of the animations for Lucina. So far I gave her new SpecialFall animations, remade her turn to have a bit more movement to it, fixed up some things with her EscapeN, EscapeF, EscapeAir, I finished her Wait2 finally so that it transitions now, and I'm now working on updating her Attack11 right now. Just thought I'd share.

Edit: Just finished the Attack11.

Here's a gif.

Ah, that looks very nice! I'm actually working on her too, but on the other side (PSA) of it. I got her to have that ability to act out of her Up B again ^^

Are you planning on reworking other animations too beyond the ones you mentioned? You mentioned the Down Tilt I believe too. Out of curiosity, what changes are you planning for that one?

Just to make it smoother and maybe a bit faster. Uh... right now I'm working on fixing up her Attack12... So it goes with the new Attack11. I dunno what else. Good to hear you got the coding for her Up B working.

Edit: Alright, I just finished a completely new AttackLw3 for Lucina. Hope it's a bit better than before. Here's a gif. It's the same number of frames as the previous one. So it shouldn't be too hard to PSA for it. Any critique will be helpful for improving my animation skills.

I'd add a bit more motion to her body as she spins. Maybe lower her bust/waist bones a bit as she spins?

Looks really cool, Nao-chan! I think that the animation is fine as it is... Or like Shulk said, lower her bust/waist a bit as she spins, to give some... ahem... speed... Or something that'd make it look faster. See what I mean?

This animation is much cleaner than the current one, my only criticism is that the feet slide a bit after the initial swing.

Wow, yeah, this is infinitely improved. I agree with the previous two posters with the lowering (and slight turn) of her body mid-spin, though.

Considering Lucina's leg is outstretched even when she turns around, would it make sense to add hurtboxes on the latter half of the animation before she transitions back to crouch?

Thanks guys. I'll try and fine tune the AttackLw3 a bit more. I'm glad you like it.


I'll try and clean up the leg movement some more for it. As for the second thing... I guess I could add a second weaker hitbox to it... maybe. I'll think about it. It's really up to CrazyHand to decide.

Feel free to animate it however you want. I'll tailor the hitboxes based on what you do =)

Hey Nao-chan - or I suppose anyone else animating as well - have you picked up Smash 4 yet? I was wondering if you would be influenced to incorporate some of the new Lucina animations (not necessarily moveset wise, just mannerisms and movements) into the PSA at all.

I'm not arguing for or against the idea, just that the new Smash is more expressive than prior releases, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are some aspects that you might want to steal for this project (given that you've even played the game yet).

The new taunts would be awesome to see. I'd probably animate one if I wasn't so lazy.

I do have it and have her unlocked as well... I might try to do some... But that's gonna take me a while since their animations are so ridiculously fluid.

Alright I know it's been a while, but I've been lazy as all hell to get back to this. I've made some progress on her Attack12 animation. I'm obviously not done yet. I'm just showing it off for now to get opinions. I still need to finish the leg movement. Here's a gif.

Like what you did here. Seems like there's slightly more range... and that quick transition... good thing I see over here.

Yeah, I did move her forward a bit more than before... It was to compensate for her leg movement to make it make sense.

She doesn't seem to put enough pressure on her left leg before moving forward, in my opinion.

If I recall correctly Attack12 is the second hit of Lucina's combo, right? With that much movement and the horizontal height of the sword, wouldn't smaller characters easily avoid the attack?

I suppose if the first hit moved the character into the proper position it might work... and I could just be mistaken about which move Attack12 is correlated with... let me know if I'm being ignorant, but what are your expectations for how this would function in-game?

@Shulk Like I said before... the leg movement at the time wasn't done. I finished it later that day, so hopefully it'll be a bit better in comparison.

@Friesnchip Attack12 is the second hit in the AA combo yes. The way she swings the sword now is actually a bit lower than before. It starts high right into a lower left arc. So the move shouldn't have too much of a problem hitting smaller characters. It should work like Marths original AA combo for the most part. Some PSAing to make the first hit knock the opponent upward wouldn't be too hard to do anyway. Plus, hitboxes are bigger than the sword, so I don't think it'll be too much of a problem. I think the timing on Attack11 needs to be adjusted a bit for the first attack to chain into the second a bit faster with how the animations are now though.

Oh... and before I forget to mention it. CrazyHand, if you have Legs that lift off of the ground during attacks like these. You need some PSA coding in the Other section to make them leave the ground. I can do it for you so you don't have to worry about it. I already got Attack11's down. Now I just need to do 12's. I've pretty much finished the animations that I wanted, minus the side smash charge animation. That's going to take a long time to get right. So I'm just gonna leave it alone for now. If someone else wants to try and do it instead I wouldn't mind. I got the movement down I just have the legs needing to match and that's it. I'll send over the FitMotion to you soon CH.

So you've finished up all the animations you had previously posted in the thread as WIPs? Considering it might be awhile before they're applied to the PSA, would you mind posting gifs of the changes you made?

Sure I guess I could do that. There's a lot so... SPOILER TIME!


There's a few more small changes that I made to some things, but I don't want to make a wall when it's not really significant so... Yeah That's all done. For the Side Smash charge, the only thing that needs doing is the leg movement to look like they're in place like Brawls charge anims are. The Side Smash itself was slightly redone thanks to Velens critical eye. I changed the way her arms swing a bit after the attack itself, so it makes more sense and so it's not so rigid anymore. I applied the changes you all said were needed to her Low Tilt, so hopefully it looks a bit better than before. I think that's about everything. Let me know what you guys think.

Wow, easily my favorite animation I've seen from you. Plus, the cape movement in the wait is much more subtle than how it is in-game (my only complaint is that the looping point is a tad obvious, but no big deal). The hair clipping won't even be an issue when the new Lucina model is completed, either. I'm excited to see all this in-game.

I'm assuming you're leaving the cape movement in the special falls up to the physics engine?

Yes. I am leaving it up to the physics like Marth's was. Also... The gif doesn't like to portray my loops very well for some reason. It doesn't look that obvious, well at least to me it doesn't in game. I can't wait for that new Lucina man. Even though I already have Smash 4 3DS. It just looks so well done for a Brawl mod.

AttackAirB's snap to the Fall animation is just... atrocious. You need to add some bust and waist movement as she goes back to her fall animation.

Special Fall and Special Fall Forward animations look terrible, in my opinion. I personally wouldn't go with it. But this isn't my PSA, so whatevs.

Rebound looks too exaggerated imo.

Wait2 needs to have leg movement before Waist/Hip movement. It looks like her upper half floats into place and then her legs follow.

Win2's transition to Win2Wait needs slight bust (and maybe waist) movement. As a result, Win2Wait will need to have bust/waist movement as well.

Win3 has no reason for her hand to be bent before going limp. I know you're using Marth's taunt, but take out some keyframes in the LArmJ bone, and it'll be fine.

Lose animation shouldn't have her legs/feet moving like that unles she's actually moving. Make sure they're stable.

You already identified that Lucina's feet need to stay in place during her front smash charge.

I had the same thoughts that Shulk has mentioned (although I didn't even notice the hand movement in the Win3), but its difficult for me to comment on the AttackAirB in general due to how quick the beginning of the animation looks. Does she spin her sword before stabbing backwards? I suppose I'd also add that Lucina's arm movement when moving her sword out and back into the idle position in the Wait2 looks stiff, and the cape movement in the Win3Wait looks like it bends instead of sways/curls in the wind.

I didn't want to criticize your animations at the moment because I got the impression you wanted to move on from them for the time being, but since it was brought up already it seemed appropriate to voice my opinions.

@Shulk: You know, every time I read your "criticisms" they always seem like an insult. You need to learn how to dial it back a bit. Most of these animations aren't even my personal ones. I just tweaked them. This is one of the reasons I'm quiting this hack business. Some people are just spoiled and need to have everything perfect. Look, I never said I'm the best animator. So expecting things to not look "horrible" or "terrible" like you seem to love pointing out, is something you should stop expecting.



This will be my last contribution to this hack. I'm tired of the attitude on these forums. I'll help with the PSA side of things if you need it CH. But the animating, I'm just done with.

That's really a shame, as you're obviously quite talented and this project won't be able to progress nearly as much without your assistance.

Personally, with the Unbound team occupied with other commitments and work on the new Lucina model postponed for a bit, your posts on this forum are the only aspects of this project I look can look forward to at this point in time. Viewing a new animation from you every now and then makes me excited to see Lucina come even closer to completion. Sure, some animations are better than others, but in the short time I've been following this project I've seen the skills of the people involved gradually developing, which is why I'm disappointed that I won't be able to see where you can take Lucina in the future.

Sorry man. I've been slowly losing interest in brawl hacking lately. I'll still finish this project. But after that, I'm done for good. I don't think I can take it much more these days.

That seems to be the case for many people these days, I guess Brawl hacking in general is approaching its end. I imagine P:M will keep it alive for a little while longer, but still...

Sorry I've been out of it for so long. My classes have been keeping me plenty busy and I have a bunch of non-Smash Bros. and non-school projects (particularly an RPG maker game) going on for me as well. I understand you though.

You have been plenty of help to me and pretty much stuck around the longest to help me on this PSA project. And really when it gets down to it you are better than me at darn near everything with PSA stuff, haha. For your contributions, you have my biggest thanks.
I couldn't ask you for anything more :)

Well thanks CH. Like I said. I'll still help finish this and help as much as you need. But after that, I'm done. I don't think I'll post anymore pics either. I just don't want to deal with it anymore.

Maybe you could just post to the Unbound developer convo on Smash Boards (I'm sure CHMH could add you to the group)? Unfortunately I won't be able to see anything since I'm only a playtester, but maybe getting some feedback from people actually working on Lucina might be more helpful and less stressful.

I dunno about that... That's a project that'll be ongoing with P:M. As I stated before. I'm looking to drop out after this is done. So I don't think I'll be joining them.

While that's true, the team has people working just on their own PSA's, and I imagine they'll stop once their characters are finished. I dunno, something to think about I suppose. This might not be the case for CHMH as I haven't conversed with him much for verification, but I would assume he is only working on Lucina for Unbound?

That's what I'm thinking. Since he was the creator of the hack they're using.

I'm technically working on two different ones. At the moment, they kind of want to see how the current Unbound Lucina develops metagame-wise, so there is not going to be too many changes to her in the meantime. The team over there made their own changes to her that sort of differentiates her a tad from what I, and possibly the others on here, were going for.

While that's going on, I went back to the original 2.0 PSA and started working on it and fixing up things and trying to rebalancing that with some of the original ideas, like being able to act out of Up B, the spinning Nair, as well as fixing the Aether glitch, etc.

I am keeping track of Unbound's progress, but I definitely want to see how far I could take a build based off of the initial 2.0 Lucina release as well. Oh also thanks for following and supporting this PSA project for as long as you have by the way ^^

Oh, that's interesting. While I greatly enjoy many of the changes Lucina has received in Unbound (mostly balancing and such), there is also a uniqueness to the 2.0 build that I'd like to see return. I guess I'm hoping for a happy medium between Unbound's build and your new build sometime in the future.

Also, I appreciate the kind words. This PSA is one of the few available that actually feels appropriate gameplay wise compared to the actual roster, and has much potential to keep improving - if I can be a small contributor in allowing that to continue, then I'm happy to keep supporting the project.