Title: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on September 30, 2018, 08:36:13 PM Welcome to the PORKY MINCH PSA thread!!! Original project started by PigMaskColonel, his thread can be found here: http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=74208.msg1337795#msg1337795 (http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=74208.msg1337795#msg1337795) (https://i.imgur.com/pfzu0Gt.png) Render by Ninten DS This PSA aims to create Porky Minch as seen in Mother 3 as a playable character in SSBB! Using his boss 3D model as a base, we're reworking his model by scaling him down, changing its geometry, creating new textures, and modifying his skeleton to better mimic his appearance in Mother 3 and the fan game Super Smash Bros. Crusade. His move set will be a 3D incarnation of his Crusade play style, and in end will be a legitimate character that everyone can enjoy playing as and against. This mod is not aimed to play as an OP boss version of Porky. If this PSA becomes that successful, we could even make a Project M compatible version. Here is the current progress where everything in "green" is currently finished, "yellow" is in progress, "orange" is not started and " " is anything we haven't thought up of yet: You can view pictures the process of how I reworked Porky's model here: https://imgur.com/a/HQN0cS5 (https://imgur.com/a/HQN0cS5) Once the model is completed, PigMaskColonel will be helping develop the animations! Also check out these recolors , renders, and screenshots made by Ninten DS! https://imgur.com/a/bV45tBe (https://imgur.com/a/bV45tBe) The first "build" is actually available. This is the first version that didn't freeze the game and features crude animations made by me, and isn't exactly playable. However it proves that Porky is currently "working" in game. The project is no longer being built off of this version, which will hopefully fix a lot of the issues with this build and make the process as clean as possible. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PjOmQJflqdBw8_Om_HasaI-Mu1CVE14-?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PjOmQJflqdBw8_Om_HasaI-Mu1CVE14-?usp=sharing) Some of the thing's you'll find in this version: Please come check out our Discord for more frequent updates and talk if you're interested! https://discord.gg/4ZRMWeZ (https://discord.gg/4ZRMWeZ) Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: PigmaskColonel on September 30, 2018, 10:01:55 PM I'm ecstatic to see that interest in the PSA has been revived! Thanks for sharing, SemiPyscho.
I can't write a lick of code in PSA for my life, but I'm more than happy to assist with animations, audio-related business, textures, icons, etc... Additionally, I'm willing to contribute to moveset design and the like if we decide to deviate from the Crusade character a little, but I know I'm probably in the minority there. I'd like to hear some opinions on this first before I go hog-wild with design ideas... Haha. Thanks to NintenDS, who's been seeking out talent to work on the project, I believe CaliburTrek (creator of the Ninten PSA from awhile back) might also be contributing, among some others. I imagine some people from the SmashBoards Porky support thread might be interested as well(?). Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 01, 2018, 11:05:56 AM I'm glad I'm able to help in this project, Porky is my favorite Earthbound character, being the one with the most interesting personality and a great backstory after Giegue. Porky has the potential to be a new fighter in Smash, and he represents Earthbound's and Mother 3's dark side while also connecting both Ness and Lucas in a way, since they both had a conflict with Porky. Hope this Project reaches completion some day!
Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 02, 2018, 12:15:46 AM Additionally, I'm willing to contribute to moveset design and the like if we decide to deviate from the Crusade character a little, but I know I'm probably in the minority there. I'd like to hear some opinions on this first before I go hog-wild with design ideas... Haha. Animating would be a huge help! Do you plan to use the animations I've already made? Be sure to scale him down in his animations to the same size I've changed him too. As for deviating from Crusade's moveset, I think the only attack we might have to change is his down light attack, aka his puke attack. This is because the puke can't be simulated with an actual animatuon since it stops once it hits the floor. Otherwise, it would float in midair where it supposedly would land on the ground if Porky is near an edge, or go through the floor at an incline. Another, way harder option is to program it like a special attack where the puke is its own entity. Porky's side special will be another case like this. I'm not sure how, or if, there's a way to change Lucas' special attacks to have these properties. I'm glad I'm able to help in this project, Porky is my favorite Earthbound character, being the one with the most interesting personality and a great backstory after Giegue. Porky has the potential to be a new fighter in Smash, and he represents Earthbound's and Mother 3's dark side while also connecting both Ness and Lucas in a way, since they both had a conflict with Porky. Hope this Project reaches completion some day! Porky is definitely an intriguing character to me, and I think Smash Bros could use some more tanks and villains. Thanks for helping spread awareness about this project and your support! Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: PigmaskColonel on October 02, 2018, 06:46:47 PM Animating would be a huge help! Do you plan to use the animations I've already made? Be sure to scale him down in his animations to the same size I've changed him too. Well, frankly, I think most of the animations could use a little touch-up (they lack a sense of weight, and some are too stiff), but that's OK. You still did a good job, and I like a lot of the visual gags, such as the mech crossing its arms when crouching. I've actually been experimenting with some different mech sizes, and I believe I may have found a good one: (https://i.imgur.com/nTkOkmr.png) (new on the left, old on the right) I squashed the mech's body a little and made some modifications to the size/length of the legs -- of course, Porky himself is still the same size, though. Thoughts? As for deviating from Crusade's moveset, I think the only attack we might have to change is his down light attack, aka his puke attack. This is because the puke can't be simulated with an actual animatuon since it stops once it hits the floor. Otherwise, it would float in midair where it supposedly would land on the ground if Porky is near an edge, or go through the floor at an incline. Another, way harder option is to program it like a special attack where the puke is its own entity. Porky's side special will be another case like this. I'm not sure how, or if, there's a way to change Lucas' special attacks to have these properties. I see. Well, like I proposed in my PM, it might be a good idea to move things over to Dedede so we can use his Side Special as a base for the Mecha-Porkies. That's the only solution I can really think of, lest we scrap the move(s) completely -- and I would hate to do that, since the Mecha-Porkies are so integral to the character. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 03, 2018, 09:42:45 AM I've actually been experimenting with some different mech sizes, and I believe I may have found a good one: (https://i.imgur.com/nTkOkmr.png) I squashed the mech's body a little and made some modifications to the size/length of the legs -- of course, Porky himself is still the same size, though. Thoughts? I see. Well, like I proposed in my PM, it might be a good idea to move things over to Dedede so we can use his Side Special as a base for the Mecha-Porkies. That's the only solution I can really think of, lest we scrap the move(s) completely It kinda bugs me how the SSE Porky is bigger than Ness while this Porky is smaller, the only problem I could see with him being resized to Ness'/Lucas' size is that he will probably hurt his head when reposing it over the part that's right over the glass, but I guess that's just me. Porky's animations are pretty good, but the run animation doesn't quite fit, looks more like a fast walk rather than a run, I still think PigMaskColonel's old run animation was pretty good as a run. Talking about animations, I've been trying to get to learn to do simple animations, I just made Porky make his head bounce a little in the run animation while looking to his right. About the turning animation too: I saw that PigMaskColonel's didn't make Porky and his mech be mirrored, while the one in the files actually makes him turn around, maybe trying to make the animation not flip the model in a way like that? I didn't try it, but I think it could work somehow. If we get to do some "custom coding" I could think of using Porky throwing bob-ombs from the upper part of his mech of course, and maybe we could find a way to replace that bob-omb's model with a Mecha-Porky? For the attacks that already have animations I think that the dash attack could use basically (almost) any other character's coding, being Mario the main one of course. If we get the project somewhere, I wish we can get people to do custom models and make a more high-poly Porky model, not being able to really move his arms or legs is a shame to be honest, even though Porky almost can't move I thought we could still make him do the spankety taunt. I'm thinking about tweaking the textures too, I can take care of that, since Porky's textures apparently were designed to fit with the glowing lights of his mech. Before this post ends: the textures on the mech are kinda buggy, the upper and lower part of it are black, but when approached with the camera on training mode actually makes it red. I'm still trying to get CaliburTek and King Bob Videos to see the PMs. Apart from that I got someone from Smashboards to post it on reddit, don't know if he did it yet, but at least it could get even more people's attention! Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: PigmaskColonel on October 03, 2018, 01:27:47 PM It kinda bugs me how the SSE Porky is bigger than Ness while this Porky is smaller, the only problem I could see with him being resized to Ness'/Lucas' size is that he will probably hurt his head when reposing it over the part that's right over the glass, but I guess that's just me. In his final animations (rather than the T-pose seen in the image), Porky will be seated lower in the mech, so we won't need to worry about his head clipping through the stuff near the top, even once he's been up-scaled a little -- and yes, I am planning on making him a little bigger. Ideally, we'd just re-model his entire body, but I'm not sure how possible that is currently. We'd likely have to do the same for the mech if we went that route. Porky's animations are pretty good, but the run animation doesn't quite fit, looks more like a fast walk rather than a run, I still think PigMaskColonel's old run animation was pretty good as a run. Well, 99% of the animations we've currently implemented could certainly be considered placeholders, so I wouldn't worry too much about that just yet.. My old animations were crude at best, but I think I could do a far better job with my current skillset. If we get to do some "custom coding" I could think of using Porky throwing bob-ombs from the upper part of his mech of course, and maybe we could find a way to replace that bob-omb's model with a Mecha-Porky? For the attacks that already have animations I think that the dash attack could use basically (almost) any other character's coding, being Mario the main one of course. If we get the project somewhere, I wish we can get people to do custom models and make a more high-poly Porky model, not being able to really move his arms or legs is a shame to be honest, even though Porky almost can't move I thought we could still make him do the spankety taunt. I'm thinking about tweaking the textures too, I can take care of that, since Porky's textures apparently were designed to fit with the glowing lights of his mech. The Bob-omb definitely wouldn't work. It's an item that's hard-coded into the game and would be far, far too powerful as a spammable projectile. I still believe our best lead is Dedede's Side Special, due to how similar it is to what we have in mind for the Mecha-Porkies. Maybe even Olimar's Pikmin could give us a few hints? I'm not so sure about the dash attack either, considering that Porky's will need a lingering hitbox, like in Crusade. I really don't think we'll want to try recycling code from other fighters for most of Porky's attacks, since Porky's hitboxes and general properties are so massively different from any other character in the game. It'd be easier to just do it from the ground up most of the time. Also, just in case it wasn't already obvious, both of the attack animations are just placeholders... Haha. The frame data isn't final in the least. And, as a stated before, a new Porky model is definitely desirable. I'm just not sure how practical it is in the long run. Before this post ends: the textures on the mech are kinda buggy, the upper and lower part of it are black, but when approached with the camera on training mode actually makes it red. Could you post screenshots of this as well? I haven't had the chance to look at it running in-game much, so I wouldn't know what exactly you mean. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 03, 2018, 02:04:24 PM I do like the version you made!
Well, frankly, I think most of the animations could use a little touch-up (they lack a sense of weight, and some are too stiff), but that's OK. You still did a good job, and I like a lot of the visual gags, such as the mech crossing its arms when crouching. I've actually been experimenting with some different mech sizes, and I believe I may have found a good one: (https://i.imgur.com/nTkOkmr.png) (new on the left, old on the right) I squashed the mech's body a little and made some modifications to the size/length of the legs -- of course, Porky himself is still the same size, though. Thoughts? I see. Well, like I proposed in my PM, it might be a good idea to move things over to Dedede so we can use his Side Special as a base for the Mecha-Porkies. That's the only solution I can really think of, lest we scrap the move(s) completely -- and I would hate to do that, since the Mecha-Porkies are so integral to the character. That's okay! I should work on my animating skills. I did that all in Brawl Box at the time so it may lack some visual elements. As for your scaled version, I like it! NintenDS did mention that Porky himself is now smaller than Ness and Lucas and his head appears to hit the top metal area above his bed. But it looks like there's extra space between his feet and the bottom of the bed, so we can push that down so it fits more snug and maybe we can even make enough space to scale Porky himself up a bit to match Ness and Lucas. I think if we do any of that and before we start animating we still need to decide if we're going to remodel or modify Porky so we can rig him with more bones. I think the Dedede idea is great! And since we plan on remaking every animation we can place Porky over any character to test so long as porky has more bones than that character. We had actually discussed the issue of Porky facing a different direction when he turns. That seems like a complicated issue. If we don't turn him around in his animation he might just flip sides anyways and if he doesnt, he could only attack in the same direction. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 03, 2018, 02:14:17 PM I do like the version you made! That's okay! I should work on my animating skills. I did that all in Brawl Box at the time so it may lack some visual elements. As for your scaled version, I like it! NintenDS did mention that Porky himself is now smaller than Ness and Lucas and his head appears to hit the top metal area above his bed. But it looks like there's extra space between his feet and the bottom of the bed, so we can push that down so it fits more snug and maybe we can even make enough space to scale Porky himself up a bit to match Ness and Lucas. I think if we do any of that and before we start animating we still need to decide if we're going to remodel or modify Porky so we can rig him with more bones. I think the Dedede idea is great! And since we plan on remaking every animation we can place Porky over any character to test so long as porky has more bones than that character. We had actually discussed the issue of Porky facing a different direction when he turns. That seems like a complicated issue. If we don't turn him around in his animation he might just flip sides anyways and if he doesnt, he could only attack in the same direction. Well, after all all I have experience with is textures, so I guess I shouldn't be talking about coding or anything. I've added the images to the renders album, so here they are plus some previews I decided to do for my twitter: https://imgur.com/a/bV45tBe The only problem with Porky's model is the legs and arms, and if this is easier I think we can stick with this model, soon I'll try to show you some improved textures. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 04, 2018, 07:51:54 AM Well, after all all I have experience with is textures, so I guess I shouldn't be talking about coding or anything. I've added the images to the renders album, so here they are plus some previews I decided to do for my twitter: https://imgur.com/a/bV45tBe The only problem with Porky's model is the legs and arms, and if this is easier I think we can stick with this model, soon I'll try to show you some improved textures. No worries, just because you don't know about coding doesn't mean you can't make suggestions. And WOW you've done a lot of recolor, nice! However I've decided that before we start animations that the model needs some work before that can happen. The Porky 3D model isnt very high quality because game devs only planned on the mech moving, so I'm now making changes to the model and skeleton. So far I've unbinded the skin and skeleton, and reduced both of them separately to their appropriate size according to the scale PigMaskColonel made. After I adjust Porky himself, I'll freeze the transformations on both the skeleton and the mesh so it cleans up everything. This should stop Porky from reverting back to original size for every animation that's incomplete, because we no longer have to scale him down through animations. I'll be using Lucas' model to rework parts of Porky (suggested by PigMaskColonel). I'm going to add more bones to Porky's body allowing for more control, and by default he will be posed a little different than he was before (his arms will just be T-posed instead because his shirt sleeve cuts into his torso in his normal pose, which will be hard to re_rig). And since I'm adding bones to Porky's model that will actually be used, I can delete the previously made UselessBones I added initially to get him compatible. However, we can expect that his bone indexes will shift, so graphic effects, and the bone that picks up an item, will more than likely be in the wrong place. We'll have to go in there and change the bones these effects use later on. One final important thing to note about reworking Porky is his textures. His textures WERE fine, but since we're modifying his model, I may have to remake his UV wrapper and textures. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 04, 2018, 12:23:10 PM I've done some edits to the textures, plus I did a concept for how Porky's stand could be, I mainly did it to make it similar to Mother 3's and Crusade's idle, plus I scaled Porky from 2 to 2.5: even though I did this, I don't have model editing skills, I did this with the idle animation and well, the animation was incredibly bugged. I've also done some modifications to his textures like making the mech's legs a bit more purple like his Mother 3 form but making them stay kind of gray-ish, made his hair look not so blue-shiny-like (same with moustache), gave his shirt Mecha Porky's textures to feel more true to the rest of the cast and also some general gray scaled parts to fit a bit more Brawl's style from my point of view. Here are they:
(https://i.imgur.com/s4yStan.png) (https://i.imgur.com/BaIedlk.png) Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 04, 2018, 01:06:45 PM I like the texture edits you made to the mech. And that blue-is light on his head always bothered me XD. BUT for now don't go too crazy on editing textures for Porky himself (the mech should be fine) because I'm in the process of remodeling him, so the UVs are bound to change, meaning the texture map may look different afterwards.
PigMaskColonel also made an idle stance similar to yours in the sense that he's more tilted back, but the legs are closer to the mech like in Crusade, which hopefully in the end will avoid making his hurt box larger than it needs to be, or appear bigger than it is. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 04, 2018, 03:28:48 PM I believe that right now we may not need people to help us, right? I have yet to be replied by CaliburTek, still, and I mainly have to notify him via his YouTube channel apparently due to him not receiving notifications via email or not having time when sent, so I was wondering if I should already contact him, or if I should wait. I don't exactly know but I think he's about animating, don't know if he can code. Speaking about coding, perhaps any of you could contact KingJigglyPuff in the future to help us when the model and some moves are done? I may also try to contact some more people later on.
Post Merge: October 06, 2018, 11:10:58 AM Here are some stock icons made by TheCJBrine from Smashboards! https://imgur.com/gallery/ggsKuou It also includes young Porky alts! Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 06, 2018, 03:25:10 PM I believe that right now we may not need people to help us, right? I have yet to be replied by CaliburTek, still, and I mainly have to notify him via his YouTube channel apparently due to him not receiving notifications via email or not having time when sent, so I was wondering if I should already contact him, or if I should wait. I don't exactly know but I think he's about animating, don't know if he can code. Speaking about coding, perhaps any of you could contact KingJigglyPuff in the future to help us when the model and some moves are done? I may also try to contact some more people later on. I also tried messaging CaliburTek, but I didn't get a response yet, but that's okay, I think we're doing okay for now. Regarding coding, I should be able to manage most of it, so I don't think its necessary to call KJP right away XD, if we can get his attention to this project. I want to show everyone progress on remodeling Porky. As a matter of fact, I might be done with the remodeling. Now I have to recreate the UVs (some are salvageable) and rig him over a new skeleton. Check out the screenshots I made! I'll update the OP with this as well: https://imgur.com/a/HQN0cS5 This isn't shown in the screenshot, but the skeleton for Porky and the rest of his mech now match the resize PigMaskColonel made properly, rather than forcing the animations to resize it. I have to add more bones to Porky first before rigging otherwise the whole remodeling process is pointless. I'm wondering though, should I rig him first, or start working on his UVs? What do you think I should do? Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 06, 2018, 03:35:41 PM I also tried messaging CaliburTek, but I didn't get a response yet, but that's okay, I think we're doing okay for now. Regarding coding, I should be able to manage most of it, so I don't think its necessary to call KJP right away XD, if we can get his attention to this project. I want to show everyone progress on remodeling Porky. As a matter of fact, I might be done with the remodeling. Now I have to recreate the UVs (some are salvageable) and rig him over a new skeleton. Check out the screenshots I made! I'll update the OP with this as well: https://imgur.com/a/HQN0cS5 Damn, I didn't even notice he didn't have a butt, how sad... Anyway, the model's looking pretty good! The only thing that bothers me is that you didn't make changes to the legs and face, because the legs would be necessary to do his spankety taunt if we decide to do so, and the face, to at least smile, but that's a minimum detail. After that I think making his pants get smaller doesn't quite fit to me, because Ness and Lucas have like the same opening, but you can leave it like that if you want, nothing major. After at, do you think you could also make a model that makes his sleeves and pants larger? It's for the business suit alt, I'd love to do that alt! About the UVs (right?), do you think there's a way of getting his suspenders' textures not appearing at all? I've tried erasing them for the old business suit alt concept, but of course I would only get an error texture, do you think it's possible? Looking great tho! Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 06, 2018, 04:34:41 PM The only thing that bothers me is that you didn't make changes to the legs and face, because the legs would be necessary to do his spankety taunt if we decide to do so, and the face, to at least smile About the legs, no need to worry about those. The problem with the legs wasn't that it needed more faces (I compared the density of the his legs to Lucas', and they're about the same). The problem with the legs was that it didn't have any bones to actually move it, which I will change once it comes time to rig the model. About the face though, that's the really tricky part to me. His face itself isn't rigged to a jaw bone, so changing facial expression would require some kind of deformation animation. I think the term used for it in brawl's files is SHP0 or VIS0 or something like that. And it would be rather difficult to change his facial expression given the odd nature of his face to begin with, so unfortunately I'm not so sure how different facial expressions will work yet. However, we could animate the mech's jaw instead to imply a certain facial expression. Regarding his pants, I made the pant sleeve smaller toward the end because Porky will be sitting in his mech more tilted like in Mother 3 and Crusade, so I wanted to avoid the player seeing the inside of his pants when playing... If you and others still want it to be wider, then I'll change it back. And I just decided that I'm going to do UVs before the rigging process. This is because when experimenting I found out that even after modifying the model, virtually all the UVs are still intact, which is amazing! The only UVs I have to refurbish are the ones for his pants! Afterward, I can combine the Uvs for Lucas' modified body and Porky's body into one or two texture maps, then we can modify his skin and clothes on Lucas' part of the model to match Porky! Then there's also that weird texture distortion you noticed in that red structure on his mech, I'll look into that too. As for Business Porky alts, I can do that after we get his primary costume working. I think its more important to get his primary costume going before we start alternative costumes, unless they're recolors or retextures. The difference for Business Porky is that he may require some model modifications, which will require re-rigging parts of the model and modifying the UVs once again. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 06, 2018, 05:10:29 PM I didn't understand a single part about the facial expressions, but I can see how complicated to you, after all Porky isn't that expressive so it isn't important. About his pants, I understand, I didn't think about it, and so I believe it's ok that way. Of course the main costume should be done first, after that you could do the business suit one, after all I guess it doesn't give that much trouble, right? And after that PigMaskColonel suggested a young Porky alt, and maybe we could use some assets from a SFM post that was linked in Smashboards, here's it: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1501429680
I believe that since the UVs are the same I can start with the recolors again, right? Now a bit off topic, I plan the pose for the renders be the one from his Brawl/Sm4sh trophy, and I'd love to include Mecha-Porkies in since they're such an important part of Porky's moves, so, at one point (not now), do you think you could start importing it, or give me a Mecha-Porky model to use in BrawlBox? I don't know from where to extract files, so if you could find it for me it would be great. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 06, 2018, 07:47:35 PM Mecha-porky is found right with Porky's other boss files, and that's found somewhere within all the story mode stage files... and there's a bunch of them. PigMask might be able to tell you which one he found it in XD.
But I'm not done with textures yet. Although most of the Uvs worked, I've moved them so they use the same texture map. I've finished UV unwrapping the pants, but now I'm trying to bake an ambient occlusion to its texture map so it will look nicer. I'm currently having issues though. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: PigmaskColonel on October 07, 2018, 05:08:18 PM I want to show everyone progress on remodeling Porky. As a matter of fact, I might be done with the remodeling. Now I have to recreate the UVs (some are salvageable) and rig him over a new skeleton. Check out the screenshots I made! I'll update the OP with this as well: It looks even better than I thought it would. Terrific stuff! Thanks for all of your Herculean efforts on this.https://imgur.com/a/HQN0cS5 This isn't shown in the screenshot, but the skeleton for Porky and the rest of his mech now match the resize PigMaskColonel made properly, rather than forcing the animations to resize it. I have to add more bones to Porky first before rigging otherwise the whole remodeling process is pointless. I agree that the new pant legs are better. It's a more visually pleasing design than the original model's flared-out pants, which seemed to mimic the look of EarthBound's Porky more-so than it did his Mother 3 sprites, interestingly. Also, yes, I definitely think we could do it without any facial expressions. It's not like Porky's going to do much "acting" anyway, considering how frail and sedentary he is in his time-warped state. For the most part, Porky will just lie in the bed and get jostled around a little while his mech handles the real performance. Now a bit off topic, I plan the pose for the renders be the one from his Brawl/Sm4sh trophy, and I'd love to include Mecha-Porkies in since they're such an important part of Porky's moves, so, at one point (not now), do you think you could start importing it, or give me a Mecha-Porky model to use in BrawlBox? I don't know from where to extract files, so if you could find it for me it would be great. You can find the boss PAC file here: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0B4vhNdf69qaSZ0N0MnBjOXFYMU0 The directory is stage/adventure/920201.pac. The file has everything & the kitchen sink for Porky's Subspace Emissary appearance; character models, his stage, visual effects, animations, etc. I think including a Mecha-Porky in his render might clutter the whole composition of things since his mech is already so large and difficult to frame, but you can still give it a shot if you'd like. I haven't nailed down any render concepts yet, anyway. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 09, 2018, 12:41:26 PM Here's the render concept I had in mind. I messed up a bit and Porky's looking directly into the camera but that will be fixed when the actual model is done so I can finish the render. I couldn't get the Mecha-Porkies' lights or reflection working, I just kinda don't know how to do that in Blender.
(https://i.imgur.com/pfzu0Gt.png) The Mecha-Porky in the back isn't supposed to look into the camera either. That would be the actual CSP, but here's how the STC (I believe it's the one used in the results screen?) and the BP would look like: (https://i.imgur.com/zTka3xW.png) (https://i.imgur.com/NXps0Ds.png) Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: PigmaskColonel on October 09, 2018, 01:31:32 PM Hmm... Yeah, I'm still not sure about it. The composition of the shot is pretty busy, what with the robots & mech limbs going everywhere. I like the angle of the shot, with Porky looking down upon the camera, but the rest of it could use some fine-tuning.
Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 09, 2018, 01:40:50 PM Hmm... Yeah, I'm still not sure about it. The composition of the shot is pretty busy, what with the robots & mech limbs going everywhere. I like the angle of the shot, with Porky looking down upon the camera, but the rest of it could use some fine-tuning. I wanted to give Porky an energetic-like pose just like the rest of the cast in the Legacy XP/TE mod, so I pretty much based it off the trophy. I could remove the Mecha-Porkies and make the mech's limbs be closer to it, but I guess it should be better to wait until we have the new model. By the way, do you think that could be the Mecha-Porkies' size (the one that's walking is closer to the camera, so he's slightly bigger)? Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 11, 2018, 02:55:21 PM How's the progress on the model going? I've done some more concepts, this time for a Porky model, which would actually be optimized with Colonel's custom mech model. I've done a size comparison with Bowser and Lucas:
(https://i.imgur.com/vGHm969.png) (https://i.imgur.com/tAnAN0H.png) I wanted to give Porky a model that looks more similar to his Mother 3 appearance, with the mech being a bit more big than the one we planned. Do you think we could probably take a model like this? I personally think this type of model would be great to give Porky a bit more range, but the one we have planned is still better. Thoughts? Post Merge: October 11, 2018, 03:09:48 PM Hmm... Yeah, I'm still not sure about it. The composition of the shot is pretty busy, what with the robots & mech limbs going everywhere. I like the angle of the shot, with Porky looking down upon the camera, but the rest of it could use some fine-tuning. Oh yeah! I didn't quite understand, you want me to change the mech's pose right? Would it be better for it to simply have a waiting stand or..? Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: PigmaskColonel on October 11, 2018, 05:55:06 PM While I agree that Porky's range should be large, we don't need to increase the size of the whole model to accomplish that. Range can be optimized for his attacks through use of "squash & stretch" animation techniques, regardless of the size of the model itself. Therefore, I definitely think the scale of the mech should be kept as small as possible, to reduce the size of his already-large hurtboxes. Anything bigger would just hinder the gameplay of the character.
Besides, Porky's range is likely going to be pretty ridiculous no matter the scale of the model. The mech's limbs can reach VERY far when fully extended (even longer than Dedede's mallet or Shulk's Monado, in most scenarios). This is why it's crucial that Porky's animations be crafted very carefully, to avoid making him too big of a target. Regarding the render, I imagine it'd be easier to get my points across if I just gave you a visual of what I have in mind (this is just a POC, of course): (https://i.imgur.com/7Vm8fOV.png) Considering the fact that the PSA is primarily built for vBrawl (and eventually Project M), I think we should strive to fit the straightforward style of Brawl's render aesthetic for now. I mean, the mod will most likely end up in Legacy XP at some point, but we can worry about making renders & other elements for the modpack at a later date. My render mockup isn't necessarily 100% what I have in mind, but you get the general idea; the mech legs overlap less, and the Mecha-Porkies don't clutter things quite as much, since all they really do is fill out the sides of the image. Additionally, the camera angle is more along the lines of Brawl's head-on renders, which makes the whole shot feel much cleaner and more concise. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 11, 2018, 06:09:26 PM While I agree that Porky's range should be large, we don't need to increase the size of the whole model to accomplish that. Range can be optimized for his attacks through use of "squash & stretch" animation techniques, regardless of the size of the model itself. Therefore, I definitely think the scale of the mech should be kept as small as possible, to reduce the size of his already-large hurtboxes. Anything bigger would just hinder the gameplay of the character. Besides, Porky's range is likely going to be pretty ridiculous no matter the scale of the model. The mech's limbs can reach VERY far when fully extended (even longer than Dedede's mallet or Shulk's Monado, in most scenarios). This is why it's crucial that Porky's animations be crafted very carefully, to avoid making him too big of a target. Regarding the render, I imagine it'd be easier to get my points across if I just gave you a visual of what I have in mind (this is just a POC, of course): (https://i.imgur.com/7Vm8fOV.png) Considering the fact that the PSA is primarily built for vBrawl (and eventually Project M), I think we should strive to fit the straightforward style of Brawl's render aesthetic for now. I mean, the mod will most likely end up in Legacy XP at some point, but we can worry about making renders & other elements for the modpack at a later date. My render mockup isn't necessarily 100% what I have in mind, but you get the general idea; the mech legs overlap less, and the Mecha-Porkies don't clutter things quite as much, since all they really do is fill out the sides of the image. Additionally, the camera angle is more along the lines of Brawl's head-on renders, which makes the whole shot feel much cleaner and more concise. Coming up with a Porky render seems a bit difficult, but I guess we can go with something like the original render, which was only a salute, but maybe adding the mecha-porkies, considering that Brawl's renders are somehow simple poses, Ness literally has his pose from the promotional art, being Ninten's pose as well. I really like the left Mecha-porky's pose, it's kinda funny! I'm pretty much doing these renders for fun, since I'm waiting for the final model and meanwhile see what you would think about the poses, since besides that, I can only do textures as I said a time ago in previous messages. I guess we should make the Mecha-Porkies smaller, in this way they could take less space and so make more room for Porky. For now I'll stop doing these, I'll wait until the model is done so I can get into it. I like where the mod is going so far, I'm planning to do as much recolors as I can, so you two can decide which ones would fit better, I have a full folder of Porky sprite recolors, so I can go with that! Of course, I also need to wait for the model for the textures. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 13, 2018, 11:09:17 AM Hey guys sorry I haven't updated you all on progress so far! So I've had to recreate the UVs on his pants and thus the texture for that area will be entirely remade. I also had to remake his shirt texture because the UVs of his old shirt and Lucas' shirt weren't composed the same way. So essentially I'm retexturing all his clothes, and I ran into a problem earlier that broke my texture file so I had to restart that.
Anyway, his clothes are looking a little different now. His suspenders are more of a pale light-blueish color because in my opinion it resembles Mother 3 Porky more that the brawl Porky. There's only one strap on each side now instead of each one splitting toward the bottom when it reaches the top of his pants. I know I don't have a picture yet but what do you guys think about this? Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: PigmaskColonel on October 13, 2018, 03:21:17 PM That sounds perfect! I never liked all of the odd little modifications that Brawl made to Porky's design, anyway.
Just to clarify, do you mean you're actually designing brand new textures from the ground up? If so, well... Kudos to you. Texturing is a tricky business, especially with Brawl's gritty art style. Good luck. Coming up with a Porky render seems a bit difficult, but I guess we can go with something like the original render, which was only a salute, but maybe adding the mecha-porkies, considering that Brawl's renders are somehow simple poses, Ness literally has his pose from the promotional art, being Ninten's pose as well. I didn't notice the parallels between my current render mockup and the old one until now, but you're right. Ha! Actually, Porky isn't necessarily supposed to be "saluting" in the new render (I intended it as him motioning the Mecha-Porkies into battle), but I can see why you'd think that. Hopefully the gesture will read more easily when re-done with SemiPsycho's improved rig. I don't really see any other similarities between my current mockup and the old one, though. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 13, 2018, 06:48:44 PM Hey guys sorry I haven't updated you all on progress so far! So I've had to recreate the UVs on his pants and thus the texture for that area will be entirely remade. I also had to remake his shirt texture because the UVs of his old shirt and Lucas' shirt weren't composed the same way. So essentially I'm retexturing all his clothes, and I ran into a problem earlier that broke my texture file so I had to restart that. Anyway, his clothes are looking a little different now. His suspenders are more of a pale light-blueish color because in my opinion it resembles Mother 3 Porky more that the brawl Porky. There's only one strap on each side now instead of each one splitting toward the bottom when it reaches the top of his pants. I know I don't have a picture yet but what do you guys think about this? Full custom texturing sure is hard work, you sure are putting dedication into this and that amazes me! I never had a problem with Brawl's design, but I always preferred Mother 3's design over it, because really how the [censored] does one person with 1000/10000 years still have blond hair, because of course, it sticks more the the extremely old man concept. After what PigMaskColonel said a while ago that his pants now look more accurate, I also noticed that now! I just got to beat Mother 3 yesterday and I finally noticed it, so I've come to really like that detail! Since Porky's fight sprite has those big buttons, do you think it would be a good idea to take Mario's/Luigi's/Wario's buttons and put them in Porky's model? They're very noticeable unlike Brawl's buttons due to the double straps. Also, I made some more render concepts! After all I think PigMaskColonel could come up with something better and polish it even more, have these! (https://i.imgur.com/QOtB1oY.png) (https://i.imgur.com/1nlLFUh.png) (https://i.imgur.com/7ejMtgM.png) (https://i.imgur.com/Y9U9vjg.png) (https://i.imgur.com/w1GujR9.png) (https://i.imgur.com/7sXZUNg.png) Even so I noticed how the images for in-game should be 180x160, so I believe we really need to go with something simple instead of adding Mecha-Porkies, perhaps maybe there's a way to fit them in there? Because if else, it just looks horribly stretched.i also know that i missed to put some transparency in most of them Also good luck with the textures of course! Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 14, 2018, 10:57:52 AM Here's the render concept I had in mind. I messed up a bit and Porky's looking directly into the camera but that will be fixed when the actual model is done so I can finish the render. I couldn't get the Mecha-Porkies' lights or reflection working, I just kinda don't know how to do that in Blender. Gonna be honest, I actually really like this one! I like how Porky's looking into the camera also. Maybe if you keep Porly's angle and pose but change the mech's pose to be more compact somehow? When it comes to the render that will be used in-game, the Mecha-Porkies will most likely have to be excluded. But you could definitely make a version of the same render with Mecha-Porkies when people would see the entire image outside of the game, and I encourage you to just have fun with these poses.(https://i.imgur.com/pfzu0Gt.png) The Mecha-Porky in the back isn't supposed to look into the camera either. That would be the actual CSP, but here's how the STC (I believe it's the one used in the results screen?) and the BP would look like: (https://i.imgur.com/zTka3xW.png) (https://i.imgur.com/NXps0Ds.png) About the texturing progress right now, I know PigMaskColonel is eager to start animating, and I don't know how much time he'll have until he won't have time anymore. So I'm thinking, since I've finished the UVs, what if I rig the model now so you can start animating, while I continue texturing the new clothes? It just means you'll be animating Porky with Lucas' colored shirt and distorted suspenders until I finish the textures. Because rigging is still a big process. The mech fortunately won't be very hard, but since Porky is an organic object that will take more work. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: PigmaskColonel on October 14, 2018, 04:12:18 PM About the texturing progress right now, I know PigMaskColonel is eager to start animating, and I don't know how much time he'll have until he won't have time anymore. So I'm thinking, since I've finished the UVs, what if I rig the model now so you can start animating, while I continue texturing the new clothes? It just means you'll be animating Porky with Lucas' colored shirt and distorted suspenders until I finish the textures. Because rigging is still a big process. The mech fortunately won't be very hard, but since Porky is an organic object that will take more work. I was actually going to suggest this, but I decided to let you do things at your own pace. If you think you're ready to tackle the rigging now, I'd greatly appreciate it! Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 14, 2018, 05:31:26 PM I was actually going to suggest this, but I decided to let you do things at your own pace. If you think you're ready to tackle the rigging now, I'd greatly appreciate it! Alright, I'll give it a shot once I can! So I'm in the process of preparing Porky's skeleton before I rig it. There are several "Landform" bones that aren't rigged to anything but are placed in specific locations. Does anyone know what these are for? I could just delete those, but we could also use them to place graphic effects on when we're programming. For example his up air, the energy orb that shoots up, we can animate one of the landform bones to match the path of the orb, then attach the orb graphic effect to it later. The orb wouldn't be in the FitPorky00.pac file, it would be found in the FitPorky.pac file. Even so, do we need all six of them? Post Merge: October 15, 2018, 09:35:18 PM I believe I've finished the skeleton now, there are just a few lingering bones that I haven't decided to delete in case we need them for graphic effects. If you're seeing this you may have already seen that I renovated the original post thus seen the screenshots relating to the new skeleton, but I'll show them here as well as a time stamp: Wow these screenshots look a lot worse now that I look back. Oh well! Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 16, 2018, 06:58:48 AM About the model I was thinking about some modifications knowing that since this is going to be a fighter's model it should be a bit more detailed like the others: maybe adding Mario's buttons to his pants, using Wario's center part of the belt and make it more circular of course. I was also thinking about a 3D modeled moustache, but I believe that would be a bit complicated and not necessary at all.
Since I'm just here for renders, recolors and concept ideas I hope I'm not much of a nuisance with these type of suggestions. Post Merge: October 16, 2018, 11:22:22 AM I've tried to do a new render pose and made it fit in the CSS, here's the result: (https://i.imgur.com/PasKmyS.png) This was the original image: (https://i.imgur.com/OpVYU6G.png) Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: PigmaskColonel on October 16, 2018, 02:27:53 PM So I'm in the process of preparing Porky's skeleton before I rig it. There are several "Landform" bones that aren't rigged to anything but are placed in specific locations. Does anyone know what these are for? I could just delete those, but we could also use them to place graphic effects on when we're programming. For example his up air, the energy orb that shoots up, we can animate one of the landform bones to match the path of the orb, then attach the orb graphic effect to it later. The orb wouldn't be in the FitPorky00.pac file, it would be found in the FitPorky.pac file. Even so, do we need all six of them? If I'm not mistaken, those have something to do with the boss's hit detection, since the body of the mech acts as a solid object that can be stood upon in the boss battle. I agree that at least a few of those bones should stay, for ease of placing GFX; the many laser/electricity attacks, the fart attack, etc.You use the Crusade up-air as an example, but I don't think that would work, since the orb needs to be coded as a separate object much like the vomit attack. The orb is a projectile that travels upwards, separate from Porky, so it couldn't feasibly be attached to a bone. That would cause the orb to be permanently "tied" above Porky for the animation, and would probably cause issues if the attack was performed multiple times in succession. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 16, 2018, 03:01:56 PM If I'm not mistaken, those have something to do with the boss's hit detection, since the body of the mech acts as a solid object that can be stood upon in the boss battle. I agree that at least a few of those bones should stay, for ease of placing GFX; the many laser/electricity attacks, the fart attack, etc. You use the Crusade up-air as an example, but I don't think that would work, since the orb needs to be coded as a separate object much like the vomit attack. The orb is a projectile that travels upwards, separate from Porky, so it couldn't feasibly be attached to a bone. That would cause the orb to be permanently "tied" above Porky for the animation, and would probably cause issues if the attack was performed multiple times in succession. We shouldn't go with projectile based tilts/attacks for now, we should go with something more simple like the mech doing a flip or simply hitting with the mech's upper arms. As for the down tilt it could simply be some slashes with 2 of its arms. Porky's already going to use the orb in his up-special which I believe won't cause any trouble, so the orb is already well represented knowing it would hit in various directions like in his boss fight, maybe even use the orb as a replacement for a special if you run into trouble. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 17, 2018, 12:21:08 AM Yeah, it's going to be difficult programming individual entities for some of his attacks, because as far as I know we can only use as many as the original character has, and I don't know to what extent we can modify the attributes of these entites. We could go for a middle ground and make pseudo-projectiles. They're basically animations that appear to be a separate entity but aren't. The problem with this is that for some attacks, Porky can move before the projectile and it's hit box disappears, and I don't think that can be achieved through pseudo-projectiles. However in one case, that's a good thing. In Crusade Porky actally has an infinite combo with his puke attack. And maybe his up air would be too spammable this way too. We'd probably have to make a different version of that attack where maybe the orb moves faster but travels less distance before disappering. Since his back air is a fart attack, it wouldn't follow the mech as it falls. I think we'll either have to program these moves as different entities or create entirely new moves that are simpler to code. But optimally we could make new versions of the original moves that work with pseudo-projectiles without appearing low quality or flimsy.
Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 17, 2018, 07:24:51 AM So, we got 500 views already, no one replies, and apparently people on Discord tell me it's because no one uses Brawl Vault anymore, perhaps we should already create a Discord server? Maybe that way people will actually give feedback, maybe the views are guests that don't even bother on having a Brawl Vault account knowing this page is just to download mods. After all it's only us three talking in here, it doesn't make sense, plus Discord is more direct and actually notifies when a message is sent. Here's the one I created: https://discord.gg/4HdCCa
Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 17, 2018, 10:28:11 AM I did anticipate people who find this thread are searching for a project that's already completed. That being said, I've joined the discord, but I believe it would still be best to post here frequently so viewers know that the project is still in motion.
I would've loved to produce mods back during Brawl Vault's glory days XD but I was a kid when I found out about this place and I didn't have the skills to do anything. Now that I do, it seems most people have moved on, but that's okay. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on October 17, 2018, 12:26:28 PM I did anticipate people who find this thread are searching for a project that's already completed. That being said, I've joined the discord, but I believe it would still be best to post here frequently so viewers know that the project is still in motion. I would've loved to produce mods back during Brawl Vault's glory days XD but I was a kid when I found out about this place and I didn't have the skills to do anything. Now that I do, it seems most people have moved on, but that's okay. 2 years ago I didn't even know how to install Project M, I used to only modify via the program that let you modify the ISO, I believe it was WiiScrubber or something like that, and sometimes it was god damn stressful to replace so many things. With what you said I believe it would be better for us to communicate via Discord while posting progress in here. This thread is just a discussion of the project with a few screenshots regarding progress. Once PigMaskColonel has joined I'll try to spread the server, apparently people in the PM Remix server would like to join the server! Also, I got one of the PM Remix developers to help us to fix a few things, they're in the discord server in #general, so check it out! Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Adsixnine on October 21, 2018, 10:24:02 PM great work guys
Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on October 22, 2018, 07:35:55 PM Thank you!
Hey guys just a progress update on what's going on. So in Maya I ran into a small rigging problem where scaling bones no longer reacted like the original model did. My version of the rig: The original version of the rig: You can see that scaling that joint in the original also scaled the children bones, but not in my rig. However after importing it into brawlbox the problem mostly disappeared by itself. Now the problem is that the interface is kinda glitchy. Manually typing in a scale value for an axis on a bone will work fine, but trying to use the scale tool to scale the bone will cause the other axes to be affected for some (I'm guessing most) bones.I'm trying to figure out why this happened, and I have an idea. It might end up in me restarting the rig... but that's fine because most of this mesh isn't hard to rig anyways. Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: PigmaskColonel on October 26, 2018, 09:20:57 PM I'm going to be out of town starting this Saturday, so I'm afraid I won't be able to help any nor communicate for the next few weeks. Nevertheless, good luck on the rigging, SemiPsycho!
For the few lurkers of this thread, we actually have a Discord server dedicated to the PSA. Please give it a look if you're interested: https://discord.gg/4ZRMWeZ Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: SemiPsycho on November 03, 2018, 09:45:20 PM Hey everyone, progress update! I've just finished re-rigging the new version of the model, and now I'm dabbling with his default costume textures, trying to make them resemble his Mother 3 appearance more, although I believe NintenDS may be able to make the textures as well. I also made a few edits to his machine UVs, so I'll be remaking the texture in an area, the back of his mech.
Title: Re: Project Porky Minch PSA WIP!! Post by: Ninten DS™ on February 02, 2019, 04:53:25 PM Man, it sure has been a long time since I visited this thread... To anyone who casually stumbles upon this thread, we're still rolling with it. I posted a Discord link below, somewhere, that's where any updates will be posted when necessary, but here's a record of what we have to show as of now:
(https://i.imgur.com/qSREJMX.png) (https://i.imgur.com/MbHyglY.png) (https://i.imgur.com/MnJa5Mt.png) (https://i.imgur.com/KRwU0ej.png) (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/522858124034703371/537415878405521419/00000000-233.png) (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/522858124034703371/540599673514229763/00000000-238.png) We also got some animations! But don't worry, these are just the ones we've shown, we have some animations we have yet to show! (https://i.imgur.com/YwxE36K.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/SOjaWyn.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/1tLmoiF.gif) (Many of these things shown have considerably changed) We had some progress on moves as well, but we've since ported him over Mario. If you somehow can't find the Discord server link and want to join, here it is: https://discord.gg/jKy4ap7 Thanks for taking your time to read this! We appreciate any type of feedback. |