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I REFUSE To let this topic go to second page.

Lol... I was totally ignored...=P

hey, very good job,  but the side attacks are more powerful what the smash attacks, i think what you should change them :-\

Hmmm nnettobr suggested the same thing....mabye I should......:(

The Tilt-forward being more powerful than a smash attack does not mean much, 'cause is slower than a smash attack, and less controllable. For a 2.0 Avatar, all his tilt attacks should be Martial Attacks. The Up+tilt could be a Smash+Up (with some adjustments), The Forward+Tilt could be his Forward+smash (common, that water explosion is so much of a smash attack....). The Down+tilt could be his Down+B attack (mostly because it is an attack that has a great effect of trap). And his Forward+B should continue, but as being his old Forward+Air+A (Palms of wind). Being instant wall is fare more balanced than a impenetrable one.

Following what I am saying,  you will have something like this.

Tilts:
Martial Like

Smashes:
.Up (Air Bend): Tornado (the tornado can be the way it is, but it could have a new hitbox, to do the knockback damage, obviously.)
.Forward (Water Bend/Fire Bend): Water Explosion (the very same move, or perhaps, the Water Bending could be his neutral B, you haven't said that it is like a Falcon punch? If you prefer the second idea, the forward could be unchanged after all, or maybe transformed into a Fireball forward smash!)
.Down (Fire Bend/Earth Bend): The fireball one (no changes), or a new earth bend (no ideas how it should be..)
Obviously all of tilt-moves that were changed to smash-moves should be chargeable.

Specials:
.Neutral (Electric Bend/Water Bend): Or  the very lightning move (maybe a little faster) or the existent Water Bend one. Maybe put the water bend here is best, but is very unhappy to abandon the electric bending.... (it was very cool...)
.Forward (Air Bend): The Air Wall is too powerful mostly because you can just press the B button and have a totally protecting wall. If it is like the previous Palm of Air (old Air Forward A) it should be more fair. It could have the same proprieties, and programming, but the Palms of Air animation (which is much better).
.Up (Water Bend): For now, I don't have anything in mind. Maybe (for balancing proposes) the Ness Avatar should go higher...
.Down (Earth Bend):  The tilt+down should be a Special+down.

Air:
.Down+Special (Air Bend): It no need to change. If it continue to be his Air Burst/Saw/Blast progression, it would be fine. And if you remove the Down+B as I suggested, you will continue with the same move, but in air (and it would be more fair).
.Up+Attack (Martial):---
.Forward+Attack(Martial):---
.Back+Attack (Ice/Water):---
.Down+Attack (Fire):---
.Neutral+Attack (Fire):---
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Counting bends (that's includes the air attacks also, but excludes the throws) for the first option (Water Bend as Smash):
Air: 4
Water: 3
          Ice:1
Earth: 1
Fire: 3
          Electric:2
Martial: 7 (dash attack too)
Total: 21
--------------------------------------------
For the second option (Water Bend as a Special and a new Earth bend to Down+Smash):
Air: 4
Water: 4
          Ice: 1
Earth: 2
Fire: 3
          Electric: 0
Martial: 7 (dash also)
Total:21
---------------------------------
The way it is now:
Air: 5
Water: 3
          Ice: 1
Earth: 1
Fire: 5
          Electric: 2
Martial: 4 (dash also)
Total: 21


PS: To change the Water bend into a Neutral+B should be very Falcon Punchish, but in Air, it could be a problem... I just don't have anything in mind.... Also, it could be chargeable like the Electric bend.

...
lol... it took me so time to write, that my session with kittycorp has ended

[Up-Smash completely changed]

Okay, after some tests.

I will follow the changelist:


Up-Smash completely changed That is an awesome move. It feels like overpowered cause it hit so many times. And actually is just a good move.

Dash Attack completely changed Again, it is awesome. If it will be changed, just make it like a 2 hit (2 midair kicks). But I like the way it is now.

Waiting Animation changed It was inevitable. And I am happy the first attempt to change it was a very good one.

Guard Graphic glitch fixed Really, I was just thinking it was with me.

Forward-A Air changed (I know the old one fitted in so well but it was kind of useless) That is true. My suggestion before was to put that move in B+Forward. It would reflect projectiles but it would not be a Almight Wall. Again, it's up to you.

Back-Throw Glitch fixed Agains Fox, at least, no. But's funny to see Fox bounce at fire. :af:

Back-Throw and Forward-Throw graphics added I don't notice any change... but my TV is small, so forgive me.

Down-Air Special completely changed Okay. Now Down Air Special is very cool and resembles the ground one. I just think that the Air Burst (the first one) is laggy, or laggier than Down Air + A. And I could not Meteor Smash no one with this attack, just spike.

Forward Special push knockback decreased for balance I like this balance attempt.

Jump Animations changed I totally approved that one.


And if I can ask you, could you put my name somewhere in the first post. Just as a little memo. I know I was no great help after all, but if any idea I said here was useful, I just wanted some very little credit for that. It would mean a lot for me   :happy:

"Tilt Attacks: Im sorry but Im probably going to keep water bending as the tilt forward for conveniance. You have water-earth-wind as the tilts, and fire bending as the smashes. It fits together."

I've found out the pattern, and I understand it. A pattern is good. It limits you a lot, but it's cool. If you like that way, I have no objections after all.

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"Forward: I dont know what to say about this one. It is the perfect barrier which means its kind of broken but it fits in so well. Its very useful for recovery too. I just dont know."

As I've suggested (and if is possible to you make) put some limit on it. Like the wall can be activated by three seconds or something like that. The move is very cool, a little broken, but cool. If it had some limit, it would be more balanced.

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"Down: You know thats not a bad idea. It is an air bending move after all. It would make sense if it only pushed them away."

I totally agree with you. I was just TRYING to say (again, my english is baaad... =/) that the last charge could PUSH, not LAUNCH the targets. Just like the Typhoon Smash. Or maybe it can launch the enemies away, but it could has a slow progression of knockback (you know... more the %, more launched way you go). Or (something just come to me right now) it could launch the targets Upwards. Look, Aang LOVES to send the opponents into the air. Not forwards, but UPwards... =). That way, the special would be less deadly, but make possible to combo... =)



"Neutral: This move is only useless if you forget that its available. If you use it correctly, you can hit up to 40%. Ive KOed enemies with this move. Its like mario's final smash. It pushes them off the stage and sometimes past the death boundary (KO). You can combo this with a fully charged down-B."

I was not happy with my statement (sorry... a brazilian way to say....). The special CAN be useful, but it should be the most deadly special of Avatar Ness. I was calling it useless because DOWN + B was much more useful them this. =).

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"Air-Down Special. I couldnt agree with you more. I always wanted this to be changed but my only issue was the lack of ideas. Your idea of using air burst in it would make much more sense since on the ground he also uses it. I might use this idea, its genius."

Really grateful. But it only be "cool" if the DOWN + A Air do not spike anymore. Cause two similar spikes do not feels right =/


"Back-Throw. This is a glitch I need to fix. Just dont hold the opposite direction your supposed to throw the opponent and he should throw him in the right direction. But this glitch is useful becuase your opponent doesnt know where he will be thrown ."

I've just found to be a glitch, but a very cool one =)

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I don't have anymore time... AHR!
Sorry.
And definitely I will look for your adjustments...

Bye!




EDIT: Well... Now I've tested 1.3 version.
The changes were good.

I don't know anything about PSA hacks, but I know about programming.
If the information for the moves are interpreted, not compiled, you can retrive the "lucario's B+UP" easy, cause it's just open his info, and do a copy paste. However, as I stated above, I don't know about PSA so I really don't know how this will affect Ness.

For the Smash UP: It will be veeery dificult to find somethin interesting here, mostly because you are using the pattern (SMASHS = Fire bending / TILTS = All other).  It's really a troublesome problem. Maybe it could be just another fireball, with another movement, or maybe it could be TWO fireballs... Anyway this is not very original....  :-\. If you break the pattern, the forward smash could be the original Water Bending, and a UP smash could be something with wind (but not the tilt up). And actually, I really don't see the UP smash as fire bending, but as being a earth bending.  :-\

If I have a cool ideal about a fire attack, I will post here....





EDIT 2: Testing I've found two things (glitchs probably):
1. When using a screw attack, the second jump is INCREDIBLY long. It almost remembers of Link Super Jump in Melee (it was in melee, right?)
2. When you use the shield, it just appears almost below your feet. But when you "move" the shield, it goes to the right place.... :-\
I really hope that i helped



EDIT 3: Okay, now it's been four hours that my tests with Ness Avatar begun.
The Forward + B is a launching machine o.O. It can throw static barrels and crates at extremely great speed.
And this moves was bugging me, as I've said before... so something come to my mind. If the Air Wall could be a Air Deflection?
The move is very cool, and must not be dropped, so if you change it somehow, it could be useful as it is, and less  unbalanced. The "type" of this wall is something like a "Fox's Reflector", you just hold the button, and the move will to be hold. But if B+Forward was something like "Mario's Cape", that has a timing to use, it would be more balanced. The "Air Wall" would be the same :)

Nice job.

Avatar Ness is the best PSA I've seen so far. And I've looked almost everyone in this forum.

And after testing, something still bugs me.

Look, this Avatar Ness is truly a master of four elements. But not the Aang's way. This PSA has great atacks, but few combos.

What I am trying to say is (my English is bad, sorry.........=/):
If you read my list of possibles changes, and used it somehow, I would be very thankful.


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Tilts attacks:
They are very strong indeed. And Up-tilt is funny, and somehow useful, and a bit slow. Forward-tilt is too strong (o.O), but slow (okay, that is fair). Down-tilt is cool and slow. See? All the tilts attacks are slow. They are very cool, I have to say. Forward-tilt should be a Smash Attack (by the way, it's very better than Smash-forward)

Smash attacks:
The new 1.2 (i've not tested the 1.3 version, but I belive that my opinion won't change) has a cool Up-Smash and a Down-Smash. The up-smash bugs me because is too Lucas. But it isn't a problem. Foward-Smash, as I've said before, is too generic, and it would be much better as an "Aquatic Whip".

Air Attacks:
Only Air-Forward bugs me. But is because I have been too frustrated of trying to go forward and go backward... (=/). But I dont think you have to change it.

Specials Attacks:
Neutral:
Too useless. It's cool the idea, but do a few damage, no knockback. I think that Neutral B should be his "killer special", not Down-B. The Lighting Bend is so cool (and pretty deadly in Avatar) to be just another move.

Forward:
VERY COOL, but a little overpowered. Cause it's almost a perfect barrier. The AI don't understand the move (obviously) and most of the players too. For me, it could be unchanged.

Up:
The 1.1 version was better than 1.2, and anyway I don't like it. Avatar is more a flexible guy (Aang, not a generic Avatar)  than a though one. So I suggest to change it to a move like UP-Special of Lucario. A mobility move....

Down:
Cool, very cool, but unnecessary. The last charge is too powerful. If I can suggest, it could do no damage, but only a air push. It could be more Aang like.

Air-Down Special:
Okay, this is OVERPOWERED. I tested, and each hit do about 18% of damage. And you can just jump, use it, and jump, and use it.... With almost none knockback, your adversary should not notice his high percentage after sometime. I really don't have anythin in mind (right now) to make a change, but that move HAS to change (or have a balance).

The back-throw attack is fun: When i used it against a Fox (can happen to more chars other than him, but the others i've fought are alright) , he just hit the explosion, and bounce, being launched to oposite direction (the forward, initially). I don't know if this is a miscalculation of the PSA, but is funny, and should remain that way... xD

THE VERY LIST:
I will summarize the  changes that I think should be made (in order to the first post):
The attacks with a triple dash (---) are attacks that I don't think that should be changed after all.

Neutral A air (Palms of Fire): ---
Forward A air (Palms of Wind): ---
Back A air (Ice Kick):---
Down A air (Fire Kick):---
Up A air (Flip Kick):--- (all changes to Air A attacks were made already)

Tilt attacks:
Neutral (Ness original): JUST NOT CHANGE, or make it more Marcial Arts, if you can. DON'T put a element on it.
Forward (Water Bending): Put a normal attack on this one. Aang is Martial artist after all, so not every move should be a bending. The Ness Forward won't be cool. If you can made a Martial Art Attack, do it. It would be very nice, and a fast attack, pleeeeeeease.
Up (Air Bending): ---
Down (Earth Bending): Cool, but more a Special B attack than a Tilt A attack. I don't think it should change.

Smash Forward (Fire Wave): Just put the "Water Bending" here. It would be much more consistent.
Smash UP (Eruption): I just don't like it. But it "fit's" a earthbender's stile, so...
Smash Down (Fireball): It's cool. I have to say that it's very much better than Fireball Yo-yo of previous versions.

Neutral B (Electricity bending): It have to much more fast, do more damage, and have a better knockback, and could have a minor area of effect. Much more a B from ROB. But it's up to you. The only thing that bothers me is: THIS MOVE IS ALMOST USELESS HOW IT IS. You can change his damage OR knockback OR anyway you want. BUT DO A CHANGE, PLEASE!!!! This move is so cool to not be used in battle....=)
Forward B (Air Wall): It's powerful. It could be less effective (if it's possible) with time.
Down B (Air Burst/Saw/Blast): Air Burst is a tactical one. Air Saw is good to damage. Air Blast is INSANE. The knockback is very high. And you use it from a considerable distance, so you probably kill two guys that are fight each other. =/. My suggestions: Do less damage and less knockback OR do just a "Push" knockback (You understand me with this one? =/)
Down B AIR (Eagle Strike): Balance it somehow, or just remove it, or change to something else. Because it's a extremely good attack. And that is a problem. Something has come to my mind at this moment: if you remove the spike propriety from Down A Air (Fire Kick), you could transform this attack in a Air Spike Bending, (A Air Burst from DOWN B GROUND, just below Ness feet). It will be useful, (very useful), but balanced.
Up B (Water Kick): The other version was better, cause this don't save Ness. I know that Forward B in Air extends the Ness jumps, but this was mean to save the char, after all. So I suggest to put a move like Lucario UP+B, doing NO damage, but with a Air dislocation (Aang's speciality after all is AIR).

Final Smash: Before, it almost kills no one. Now, it kills everyone. And I don't know what you could do... But I have to say that this Final Smash is the better (so far i've seen). And it would be a shame if this move is not balanced.... If you can do something about it, just do.

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This is my first post here in KC (but I enter this forum from very very long time, it was not in this server....), and probably it will be my last (a response is possible). I just create an account to post this BIG post here, 'cause I wanted to help this magnificent work. When I like something, I want the better. And I liked so much Ness Avatar (I like Ness AND Avatar xD) that I feel in the obligation to help somehow.

My changelist is based on the fact that the Avatar you targeted was Aang. If was not, half of this list won't be probably necessary. But if was, my biggest suggestion is: make the Ness Avatar more Martial Artist (moving the Water Bending to Forward Smash, and putting some move here would be sufficient, I think).

I really liked your project. Don't misunderstand me. So, please, continue your awesome work. =)