Just a question: Is the right thing to do when someone sends you a PM with the location of a certain reward, do you report the PM? Or leave it be and ignore it.
I'm pretty sure I can no longer get the reward as I know where is is, but have yet to see it...
I am refering to the Hidden Cookie reward
Man, what a weenie. .w. He just had to go and ruin things as a form of petty revenge.
Well, [censored] that, I'm going to go and make that hidden cookie even more awesome, now. You're gonna need more than just luck/patience to find the Neo Cookie.
Jacket is open and there are new linings all over the place. So it's not a perfect replica, but still pretty dang close to it. I still think it's a more effective costume by virtue on improving and adding detail to the existing material, instead of directly altering it.
Here's one thing I ask of you all, on a side note: Don't treat the PMBR 's opnions as one entity. (You say "your" as if I'm the entire PMBR) We're all separate people when it boils down to it. Stop treating us like we're part of a collective, it's only certain people who have a beef against KCMM. I just make the damn alt costumes, lol. That also applies to other people on the art team.
I don't know what kind of politics there relating to PMBR vs KCMM, but they're irrelevant to me as a modeler.
Well, you just said "we like hearing your feedback." After naming a few people who we both know really don't want to hear anything from me.
I mean, we're not your target audience. Just kind of a fertile ground to pluck your creative artists from. Our opinion matters little.
You're honestly not someone I have a problem with. In fact, I have little problem with most of the modelers animators and PSAers in the PMBR, despite how it's obviously not a mutual feeling. I could hold it against them, what I've heard said about me and this whole community. I don't, because I really don't care as long as you don't come [censored]ting on Programming like Dant and friends did.
But if you're going out of your way to go all "we" and cover people who really don't care a rat's ass about what anyone on KCMM would say (especially not me and my insolent "pressing the issues" attitude) then sorry, yeah you're gonna get assimilated into the group of the KCMM haters.
Ah, well now that this has been posted, I can definitely see a bit more of a resemblance. The cape is faithful to Hector's, the collar has armor, and really, the whole armor fits together instead of looking like it was pieced together from random parts. Ike's bandana is even tied so as to not distract and accentuate the differences with vanilla Ike. With the different facial expression, it does kinda work. Even if the armor design is still well off what you'd see in FE for armored characters. That still is way off-the mark.
So hey, I guess I'll say that it wasn't completely the designer's fault. Because there's all the things that are innacurate in the model as opposed to the concept art. And I'm not just talking about the colors here.
I appreciate the effort at attempting to solve this peacefully. But sorry, I just cannot take this seriously. Some of the users you've named haven't exactly been subtle at this whole "backtalk, smile in public" thing, so uh... yeah. The sentiment is appreciated, but that's it. (Also you forgot SDoom. He's totally a big part of KC-MM too and I know he loves chatting with me.)
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To the rest of your post: It boils down to artistic liberties. I understand the appeal of having an 100% accurate Hector alt, but many people could tell it was him anyway. The FE subreddit could tell, and they're big on FE. Again, there's a completely accurate Hector already on the vault if you want that.
Well, if you tell me it's not 100% accurate... how accurate is it?
Really, please tell me, as the modeler of that "redesign", what in that alt evocates Hector. If there's been concept sketches and whatever, that means some thought has been put into it, right?
We agree that the color scheme is blue (if innacurate blue). Okay, what else in that armor looks like Hector's? Anything to explain why it's "artistic liberties" and not "just way off the mark."
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(Also, I'm glad you liked the Sigurd alt, thanks)
It really is nice, yeah. I liked that Light suit too, even if I'm not too much into Metroid stuff.
Thanks for your opinion, and yeah, the initial concept artist took some liberties with Hector's design. In the end, it's his armour with a bit of an Ike spin.
I think it's still recognizable as Hector-esque, since people on smashboards recognized him from a blurry stream feed.
Well, I'm sure "people on Smashboards" (?) would see anything with blue hair and armor and yell it's Hector. And anything with a black mantle and white hair would be Robin.
I'm not questioning the modeling quality though, I just think the design is completely off. Like, that just's beyond Awakening-esque of unrecognizable redesign. It just isn't Hector's armor at all.
If all you need is for people who have a very vague knowledge of FE games to recognize a mere color scheme from a blurry stream, then sure, go ahead. But that just seems incredibly lazy considering there's some beautiful stuff like that perfect replica of Sigurd's figurine. Why even bother modeling?
Edit: Not like what I'm saying is gonna change anything considering how the PMBR seems to consider this community. You guys probably should stop posting here altogether if you really don't care about what's being said on KCMM.
I've been playing my share of FE7 and FE7 hacks, and I honestly could not recognize Hector.
Collar and elbow parts of the armor are missing. The shirt sleeves are the wrong color. The color scheme of the armor/undershirt is the other way around. Gauntlets and shoes are just painted blue from what I can tell. Belts and tattered caps are unchanged. I'm not even sure what's going on with Ragnell. Is that a random Alondite?
Heck, the shape of all the armor parts is completely off. Were they taken from something else, or is there some official art of a redesigned Hector I'm not aware of? 'cause this looks more of a Wyvern Knight style armor than anything remotely armorknight-esque.
Marth's Sigurd costume was awesome. This looks more like "Ike stole some of Haar's armor and painted it blue." oô
I fail to see how the legal definition of theft enters into the equation. Neither the PMBR nor this very website have a legal legitimacy, and SSBB Hacking in general is most certainly not following the law. Whether money is made or not, all the stuff that needs to be done to simply make hacks and install them goes against a whole lot of legislation related to reverse-engineering and bypassing contructor protection. Following your logic, a thief stealing from a thief isn't stealing anything. What about the whole "honor among thieves", especially when the theft is very minor?
tl;dr
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we all as modders cannot truly steal content from another modder
Nobody should arrive to that conclusion unless their desire is to bully creators into relinquishing their work for their own selfish motives.
**** As for the credits list and it being adressed in the next release... and about respecting those you collaborate you. I wish to believe you. I really do.
Unfortunately, I have it known from a longtime PMBR member that the PMBR doesn't care about crediting as long as no individual complaint is made. And even if there was, it's not even certain that action would be taken. Considering nothing has evolved in the past month since I first asked, and all the answers I received focused on "who complained to you about the credits?" I'm inclined to believe that no, nothing is going to be done.
You say Thany showed interest in being credited for the model and animations... and yet she wasn't credited for the model. Either I've been looking at the wrong place this entire time, or even when someone asks to be credited, nothing is done. And apparently, there isn't even anything related to PSAers in that list.
All this is especially ironic, considering Shanus was affirming with a lot of confidence last year or so that all assets were very thoroughly reviewed and examined before being added. I guess only the content matters and the author isn't very important after all.
For content produced by Project M Dev Team members, if they do not request a direct mention. Crediting the team will do to credit them, they are part of the team after all. It is an inside agreement and we should have talked about before.
What. What even is the reasoning behind that? Do content creators even know about their name being hidden from the credits, or was that made up just a few moments ago? Because I've never heard of such an agreement.
And even then, it's only just displacing the issue. If "people on the team" aren't credited, then why are some still credited? Because they thought about asking, but others didn't? That sounds like an incredibly loopholey way to do some favoritism.
*** As for the topic of being busy, yes, I can definitely sympathize. I can't count the number of times I've had to ruin my sleep schedule too because of solving issues on this forum. And when ds22 and Dant's littly club decides to launch a vendetta against our users, it's surprisingly difficult to sleep in a relaxed state of mind. I'm sure there more than just the two of us who are very busy bees without needing monetary compensation, though.
Even then, my point still stands. If promotion and organizing tournaments counts as a much higher priority than the most basic of authorial aknowledgement, then there's kind of a big problem in the mentality of the PMBR. If this was a sold product, it would be the equivalent of putting "more sales" over actually paying your employees. The question of crediting does not even seem to have been raised until I went and asked. If the team screws up so early in development and you don't have time later to fix it, then find someone who can make time for it. Don't give us a vague "yeah, we're sorry we'll be working on it at some point perhaps"
Even if (s)he was credited on say, the main website for specifically creating Roy, people all over the internet wouldn't say "OMG good job Thany, I love Roy in P:M." They'd obviously still be saying "(The) Project M (Team) did a great job with Roy, I love him."
That is, only if you assume people who never look at credits. People who don't care about who did what are not my concern here.
Heck, even if nobody ever looked at credits. Like, ever. Does that make it right to credit the wrong people? No. But as things stand, just take someone who wants to mod the P:M assets and wishes to be respectful to whoever made the original asset. They cannot do that properly. So that one Roy recolor on the Vault will be credited to/collabed with... "Pik, StarWaffle, Nanobuds, Spex 130, jiang."
Ah, a pleasant answer to sweeten the sour taste in my mouth after all this. You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. Not much in the way of new information though (as good PR talk should be?). No complaints about the English though. I'm French, so I can sympathize.
*** I don't see how forcing yourselves with a slot limit is helping in any way to control the size of the cast, unless the development team just cannot stop themselves from filling ALL THE SLOTS. (In which case the problem isn't on the coder's side, but on the shrink's.)
But aside from that, old stuff. So I guess the whole matter of "why not just build onto BrawlEx?" will be left to "We have no interest in it." Disappointing, but not unexpected, as I've seen from past experience. My question was more of a coding perspective as to why the PMBR believe it'll take less time to upgrade BrawlEx to fit instead of taking more time just having the CE working. But since no more information can be disclosed about it for whatever reason, that also settles my question into a non-answer. I guess the whole "safety" thing isn't even important enough to get mentionned either. Oh well.
Next is the bigger point of contention. Credits.
**** You have to understand that the SSBB Hacking community is not reduced to the PMBR. In fact, a major part of the ressources used by P:M come directly from SSBB Hacking websites. I won't lie to you, but nowadays it's kinda just us. A large number of the artists that make all those sick renders and build up the hype have started here, learned from here, and become famous here. Even if some of them don't even seem to remember it.
We are an open-source community. But we still have a bit of an obligation to give proper credit where credit's due. When you take work from someone and modify it into your own, you credit the person. It's most basic respect. You don't see me take someone's PSA of a lifetime, botch up a few moves, and then have my name and only mine featured as the original creator.
Heck, that's not just disrespectful, that's just plain theft.
I've been led to believe you never even started compiling the credits for all the works you've used. Which is why now, it's probably way too late to start doing it, years after. How does that happen? How do you start working on a product that you're eventually going to market (even for free), and then never ask yourself the question of who did what?
I mean, I'm not even talking about the guy who did the toe texture on Green Lucario's right paw. Glaring stuff like "Thany made most of Roy's PSA, then SDoom edited it. Guess who gets his name on it." or "Why the [censored] is Dantarion not even listed?" That list doesn't even seem to have been edited since 2012 too.
But apparently, there's a need for victims to call out for that theft for you to do anything? That's like me going around random stores, sneaking items out, then saying it's not theft unless they ask it back. If you're waiting for the silent masses to speak up for credits, then you're really not doing things as professionally as that. That just seems more like backyard traffic to me than an honest business.
*** I was also led to believe that the list was being worked on:
"We don't have a complete listing of everything that's been made right now but we are slowly working towards making a complete master list. At the moment, we only have some character and stage models down on a list. Because this is such a big project a credits list would take a large chunk of time to create when we're still working on the game itself and things are still ever-changing. If you were looking to use a credits list to determine what's actually ours, we could probably work towards getting something more complete to you as soon as we are able.
Please let us know if you have any other questions."
**That is from the team leaders of the PMBR.**
But from what you're saying, I guess you guys really aren't compiling that list, and just waiting for people to do it for you.
And I suppose that message I got was just someone trying to smooth-talk me. Again. This isn't getting repetitive at all.
Being busy is not an excuse. If you have the time and energy to spend advertising your game on social networks, streaming websites, be featured in tournaments and even sell T shirts, you certainly have more than enough time to give credit to the people whose work you use.
*** Also please get someone who actually knows PR to check this place more often. I'm sick and tired of your coders starting fires on our Programming section and [censored]ting all over this community every time their [censored] Engine is leaked out.
Ah, well in that case I am very sorry for asking the questions that the PMBR does not want to answer.
There's still the other two questions in my previous post, but considering the very defensive answers I've gotten, I guess I'll sit on them for now?
I mean, who cares about crediting perfect strangers as long as they don't complain directly? [censored] the silent masses, they don't have thousands of subscribers on FB.
You got your answer already in the posts of the previous page. Please read them for your answer.
Maybe I missed something crucial, but all I've seen were reasons why the PMBR does not wish to replace the CE in its current state with BrawlEx (in its current state).
I'm asking about directing development towards fixing the flaws of BrawlEx instead of having to deal with the CE being slower, less safe and less tightly programmed. (Also less slots, which I guess the PMBR won't consider a problem until it becomes one.)
Right now BrawlEx has three flaws, you said, and none of them sound like they need to rerite the whole code to be fixed. In comparison, I don't think there is a way to fix the CE's flaws without basically reconstructing it. If I'm wrong, feel free to tell me, since you probably know more about it than Nano or me. That's why I was asking.
It's a question about the better(?) base to elaborate on, not on the current state of one engine vs the other.
Didn't you just say that you can't release the CE because it super-complicated and long to set up? .-. If what is taking time is actually animating and balancing, then I don't see what the big deal is. Anyone can do that without needing to tune everything to PGM Melee standards.
Once again, if I'm taking the time to ask, it's because I didn't get any answer.
*** As a side-note: sorry to say, but why is it that when there's a direct question asked to the PMBR, it always takes three pages to get a straight, not-tiptoey answer? I had that with the whole Falco clone discussion. With Zhine leaving the team peacefully (hah). With the whole "P:M is basically Melee 2.0" stuff. I had that with every goddam time ds22 and Dant were flipping their [censored] in Programming. Apparently mk64 also had to deal with that considering the way he was asking about Waluigi. And now again.
This is very very irritating. Is the master credits list even done yet? About a month ago, I pointed out that P:M barely credits anybody in the SSBB Hacking community besides their "stars" and was assured people were starting to work on it. What's the current state of things? (And will I need to fill 3 more pages to get that answer?)
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