Just a suggestion. Since Maritime already covers the blue team slot, I think it would be great if this project focused more on the purple aspect so that people are more likely to use both. As is, most of these seem to be very blue-centric.
That's so strange... damn, I wish my SD card was working. I've NEVER had any problem whatsoever with the Pegasus Boots. I've already heard two accounts of this move glitching; Can someone please confirm for me that the move IS working properly? It seems to be working for some and not for others which... kind of defies explanation... you'd think it would be one or the other.
You actually can recover when using Toon Link's FAir offstage... but it's a lot harder than with Link, I understand. A part of it is the fact that Project M made Toon Link way heavier which... I don't understand since they were trying to emulate Melee's Young Link... regardless, your qualms are legitimate and I'm hoping to fix this up for the next release.
Cutting off a bunch of frames from the move's end lag should help out, in addition to some gravity adjustments and possibly an earlier "allow interrupt" subaction command (which you suggested). I hate to make the animation shorter, because in comparison to Link it ALREADY ends much sooner than Link's (believe it or not) and that contrasts with the way it works in the games. However, I understand that staying faithful to the games shouldn't necessarily take precedence over practicality.
OH, and another thing. By the time Toon Link gets the Hookshot, this actually won't be a problem. You see, at that point his recovery will be muuuuuch better. In the meantime though, I'm going to give his Up B a boost (which is RIDICULOUS because, again, Project M made his recovery terrible despite trying to copy Young Link, who had way better recovery than Link if I recall).
But one thing's for sure, I'm glad someone came forward and said that they think Link's (normal, not Toon) FAir is a good move, because personally I've found it rather tough to use. I think I've just been having bad luck though; from a theoretical perspective, the move sounds really nice.
I was surprised when I found out how much the speed increase and the lack of forward momentum helped Fair honestly. It had seemed so useless before that I kinda thought it was doomed, but now I'm landing it a ton. Buffed recovery sounds great- I actually assumed tether only recovery would mean it would be a lot worse. Good to know you're cognizant of his recovery flaws. If you're just going to replace it later, I wouldn't bother taking the time to fiddle with ^B. It'll just delay the final fix more. The demo doesn't have to be perfect just as long as the final product is good.
Did some play testing last night with buffed Yoshi, so I'll post some feedback. Weird glitch on Orpheon I doubt will ever come up in normal play. I was egg rolling right near the edge and shield canceled it RIGHT before I fell off at the same moment as the stage flipped and got Star KOed at 0%. Also, shield canceling side B is a little inconsistent when you start egg rolling in the air and then land- I'll press shield, and get no result. But I usually can do it fine, and I just have to hit shield again even when it happens. The egg roll and shield cancels actually don't seem anywhere as broken as I'd thought they might be. It seems telegraphed enough for the opponent to actually be able to deal with it, so no balance problems on that front. Dair's working great for damage racking now with the landing hit. Me gusta. All the other changes are too subtle to make a judgement right now with how I'm still adjusting to normal brawl and haven't had a chance to play against a human with him. He definitely feels a lot smoother and stronger as a whole, though.
While it may well be balanced if it did have significant startup, it certainly doesn't on my end- it's almost instant. So that does seems to be a bug. And I'm sure I'm not canceling it with anything- all I do is hold forward to dash, down on the C Stick/A to attack, but nothing happens if its not during the initial dash. For Fair, maybe being able to act out of the falling animation would help? Without bomb jumping, you can't recover at all from using it off stage, while Link's is a pretty reliable tool that can be easily survived. Onstage edge guard, you'll always want reverse Nair or DTilt, and I don't think Fair will ever be able to take over that niche. At least with much higher IASA, you can live, and possibly even combo with it if the knockback is adjusted.
Dash Attack actually. You can't DTilt or DSmash while running. I should probably stop using that abbreviation since no one understands me when I use it lol. And I have a Mac and so far have failed at using Wine, so I don't have PSA. Also, Nair with Toon Link makes for a really cool cross up, as well as a nice edge guard when facing away from the one recovering. It also does really well against someone who tries to dodge your attacks, since it lingers long enough to hit them. Haven't comboed into it much, but I think its very possible. Seems much more useful than Link's for some reason, idk why. Funnily enough, it's the total opposite with Fair. With increased speed, and no forward momentum, I've been using Link's fair as a secondary finisher to DSmash, as an onstage edge guard, and to punish dodging, while his Nair seems to be completely outclassed by it. Conversely, Tink's Fair seems so small and pathetic that I always just use Nair. Btw, here's a few models you might want for Luigi. Various Vacuum models: http://www.models-resource.com/search/?q=Poltergust And his flashlight: http://www.models-resource.com/gamecube/luigismansion/sheet/6062/
Tink's DAttack is glitching out on me. In almost any situation when I try to input it, he just runs in place for a moment and then does nothing. No forward momentum, no hitbox, no cool animation, nothing. However, it will do something if I do it instantly from idle by near simultaneously hitting forward to run and down on the C Stick to attack. Unfortunately, it still is glitchy then, since it moves forward at insane Sonic-esque speeds with little to no startup for a very large distance, has a multi hitting hitbox in front of him, and combos into anything imaginable at any percent, and I rather doubt it's meant to be that broken.
Ew, no way I'm gonna do that. I changed the animation specifically BECAUSE Link's Up B looks literally NOTHING like the Spin Attack from any Zelda game ever. In the games, he spins once and that's it. In Brawl, he spins and spins and spins and spin and spins and it just stupid.
Think about this for a second: Have you ever wondered why Link's Up B looks nothing like his traditional spin attack? It's because Sakurai needed it to look that way in order for it to make sense as an Up B. He decided this before tether recoveries were a thing, and kept it that way even after tether recoveries showed up because for some reason he's waaaaay too afraid to change the original cast in the ways they truly should be (hence the whole point of the True series).
But, one last thing. By the final version, Link will, provided you charge the attack fully, spin around THREE times instead of one, Like he does in Ocarina of Time. Expect a fire effect as well. No no, it's perfectly fine. Any commentary is good, it helps me generate ideas.
Wow, it really has been way too long since I last played a Zelda game. But I'm pretty sure I remembered WW Link at least spinning multiple times. In fact, isn't the PM up B while grounded based on it? With the moving during the spinning and all? And yeah, I know you're right on the DSmash thing, I'm just irrationally bothered by it. More so with Ike's, but it doesn't really matter for either and idk why I even bothered posting it. Also, psyched for high hitlag Shield Bash.
Luigi's vacuum would be very hard to implement. It would be awesome, but really hard. If I could change his dash to riding the Poltergeist, I probably would. As it stands I don't think that's possible. When I give Luigi the Thunderhand (nice call) I'll be giving Mario his fire element equivalent. :/ The leg kicking thing is already planned, but not as an Up B. I'm afraid the plumber brothers are just too similar. The hack wouldn't be "True" if I chose different moves over "True" moves. As a way to counteract this, I plan on exaggerating the differences in their ATTRIBUTES rather than their attacks.
Many of the changes in Toon Link are the same as Link's attacks because... in the games they do the same things. And in any case, you've an attack or three that IS different, so what you're getting right now is better than Brawl. To be fair I gave some VERY serious consideration to the Shield Bash as his Ftilt, in fact it's VERY likely that it will appear there in a future update. TECHNICALLY Toon Link's Ftilt is the stab from LoZ while Link's Ftilt is the stab from ZII:AoL... but the difference in animation is extremely subtle so no one will really notice. That, and the Shield Bash would be cooler because it has a dizzy effect. BUT that could lead to serious balancing issues. Toon Link will NOT see his skull hammer (or possibly his Deku Leaf) because I have no experience importing models; but more importantly the skull hammer isn't nearly as iconic as the Jump Attack, and Iconic moves will DEFINITELY take precedence over different moves in this hack series. The Deku Leaf, if at all, would appear as a glide option similar to Peach's float jump. As it is with Mario and Luigi, I'll try my hardest to stress the dfferences in their ATTRIBUTES.
...You think the spin attack animation doesn't look like a Down Smash? loloollololololololol But jokes aside right now the move is VERY cheap, it has waaaaay too much power right now. But yeah, I purposely intended for it to be Link's primary finishing move.
Sucks on the vacuum, hammer, and Deku Leaf difficulties. Deku leaf as a glide or float like thing would be cool if possible, but no pressure. And damn, didn't know Mario had a fiery version of Thunderhand. Shield Bash sounds great, and I hope you figure out a way to include it in a balanced way. Is it possible to change how long the enemy is dizzied to a somewhat short amount for combos, or to just give the Shield Bash a lot of extra shield damage/stun as a shield pressure tool? And yeah, I know my gripe with DSmash is pretty silly. It just seems like all the DSmashes in Smash all have animations that specifically hit downward, while this one just seems to hit on both sides without particularly focusing on the ground, even if the hitboxes do cover there. Doesn't matter though at all. Since you're planning to remove Spin Attack ^B, are you going to port that animation to DSmash or continue with the current one? The Up B one seems much more like how the Spin Attack looks ingame. Sorry if I'm peppering you with too much questions lol and distracting you from actually working on it.
Actually, there's tons of stuff you can use from his games you can use to decloned Luigi. Luigi's Mansion has the Poltergust- basically a giant vacuum used to suck up ghosts and objects, that can also launch elemental attacks (fire, ice, and water). You can also ride on the Poltergust. He also has a flashlight used to stun ghosts. He also has the ability Thunderhand in another game. http://www.mariowiki.com/Thunderhand Also, he can slow his fall, and also jump high while in the air, by kicking his legs a lot, which could function as an up B recovery. And speaking of decloning, I'm curious as to why you made so many of the same changes to Tink as you did to Link. It's not a complaint, seeing as their stats alone can differentiate them a lot, but it seems to me there're plenty of moves from their games to further declone them rather than cloning them more. TP/SS Shield Bash as Link's FTilt/FSmash, Skull Hammer for Tink's FSmash, Deku Leaf as a recovery move, etc. I know they're similar in game, but it feels there's some lost opportunity. Btw, Links new DSmash is scary. While the un-DSmash-like animation keeps on bothering my OCD, I find myself using it a ton with its decent speed, high knockback, and super low angle. It's my main finisher. Props for that.
I guess I just have to experiment with Helm Splitter a little more. And I think the main difficulty with comboing with DAttack is that it only seems to work if you hit with the end of the move, which is a little more difficult to land. Earlier and the opponent goes way behind you, and while I've landed a pivot grab off that once it seems to be really inconsistent. Maybe having the initial hitbox link into the end hit would make it easier? Still awesome move without it, though.
Link's Fair is majorly wonky. I originally thought it was a glitch when I first used it. The initial swing seems like its in slow motion, and has a rather strange forward momentum boost. He also falls slowly for a billion years with his sword held right in front of him, making the move completely useless offstage, and useless onstage too from slow startup. If its meant to be a stall then fall, I'd recommend making it fall fast; otherwise, just nix the end lag and allow him to act out of it like any other aerial so it actually does something besides waste a move slot. Nair also suffers from slow motion syndrome: even if it is a kill move, there's not much of a chance of landing it if the startup is so great it hardly comes out from a full hop. Dash Attack, FTilt, DTilt, Back dodge, and his run all seem great to me, so kudos for that. While its completely superfluous, I'm interested in having the new DAttack be better for combos. Maybe change the KB angle to 45 degrees up in front of you with a little more BKB so it links easily into FTilt, FSmash, and a hopefully fixed Fair?
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