Also, his shoulder pads don't vanish when he goes metal, unlike in Melee(Spycloak, too)
Click this spoiler for some semi-bad news that might have a simpler solution than I can grasp at the moment.
Those aren't shades. It's his FS eyes. I've exported a copy of him with them pulled out reallly far, because for some stupid reason his Yellow Iris textures won't show up in-game anymore. They're in BrawlBox, but not in-game.
Here's a view from the other side to show that they aren't simply backwards. Roy's head also looks funny because I didn't go through the entire hour of work to change all of his settings in BBox to make him look normal when I was testing to see if his FS eyes would work.(As everything resets when importing a new .dae into the costume.pac...Ugh...)
Although Albafika might have a solution to this.
I was going to get ready to release him, but the shenanigans in the second spoiler bracket had to ruin my entire day.
Ah. It's explained now. Do want. Could this be the perfect Roy? O:
That's the plan. It's my attempt at what Roy would've looked like in Brawl had things not taken the turn they did... Probably going to be the most 'perfect' Roy model we can get, as I doubt anyone else has a lot of interest in him .__.
I checked that download out of curiosity, and it does have ASF's font for the CSP names, as well as his CSS icons.
It also uses CSPs that were based on the "intro" poses the character have when Brawl is turned on and you let it run for a bit... Those were old ones SJS did, I think.
I've been posting all my progress on this bit of collaborative work in the Fire Emblem model thread, but I get the feeling a lot of people still don't really know about it.
All that's left is to fix his eyes so they can move and split him into 3 versions based on sheathe position. I think everything else has been done.
I've got him fully rigged now, unless I happen to spot something that's amiss, but regardless my Autodesk journey is not over yet...
The cape is a lacking the sufficient vertices to rig it without the shoulderpads bleeding though a little here and there in the front, though. I've rigged his fingers exactly as Marth's are, except for how Marth's pinkie finger is influced by one of his middle fingers bones a little. His fingers are also a more suitable length now - the vertex had them stretched out reeeeeally far...
I intend to split the front of the purple side of his cape from the back so that I can make both objects be visible on only the sides that face outwards to reduce clipping....But splitting the front of his cape from the back ups the filesize, and I'll go into why that's pretty bad later .__.
Just another shot of him from behind. This is the back-sheathe model as you can see.
The back sheathe stuff is all rigged 100% to the WaistN bone instead of the Saya01N bone to prevent animation hiccups like with previous Roy vertexes.
However, the back sheathe isn't going to be perfect because of that cape... In Brawl, capes are moved by the wind, although the upper most cape bones can be moved, but the farther down you go, the less they are influenced by rotating them and the more wind effects will affect them.
Unless it was some sort of problem that they could not sort out in time, I had assumed Roy's sheathe was not present during matches in Melee due to its presumed clipping(And if you've ever worn a sheathe like that, it tends to hit you in the back of the legs a lot... x__x )
His trophy where he's shown in his gold costume and doing his taunt has his arm and the sword lower, but in a match, Roy's arm is in a different position and the sword is higher and closer to his body, so even if the sheathe was present, with that animation it would be too high to sheathe.
There is another issue with his sheathe being rigged this way...The little gizmo that attaches the head of the sheathe to the clips on Roy's belt will stretch out in some animations and the sheathe will go with it.
Before I had all of the sheathe things and all of his belt stuff rigged to the WaistN completely, but then the belt would look unnatural, awful and clip like no tomorrow. Hence, I went with this compromise of all the belt stuff being divided between the HipN and WaistN evenly, and made only the part of the little gizmo that sticks into the belt also be 500/500 for the HipN and WaistN
This is still a major improvement from the back sheathe models of the past, with only some mostly unnoticed things here and there, like it moving closer to him during the U-Air. The only thing I could do to make this better would be to rearrange the model's bone structure so that the actual sheathe bone is sticking out behind him and then rigging things accordingly, but this would render all but the side-sheathed model unsafe for Wi-Fi, unless it was an extra model.
Well now. That shadow certainly isn't sporting Marth's hairdo. :3c
Hey, look! It's the Sword of Seals, too! This was a simple vertex. I edited the head to look like it has Roy's hair, reshaped the neck to look more like his collar, made the chest rounder like his armour, shortened and reshaped the cape, made his hands bigger, arm skinnier, feet bigger and reshaped the sword.
For this shadow, I have deleted the sheathe polygon, but I can remake this and probably make sheathed versions for the other two Roy models.
...But it's better to view it in-game, where it's 2D and all shadow-y. Looks kinda like a plastic surgery nightmare in BBox's model previewer. The head, anyway.
More derpy goodness!
These previews of his moving eyes are pretty dated, but they're also from the only time I've ever gotten the eyes to work proper-...Uh...Work sort of, I mean.
They move and stuff, but his left eye is mirroring the right one as you can see. I've only been exporting to check rigging in-game at this point, so I've not really delved farther into the eyes issue. That's for the tail end of this model.
He's in the middle of a rolling dodge here, but appears to be running from a duo of Foxes, but not before tripping/sacrificing Marth to them. The eyes are neutral on this animation, or at least at the frame I snapped. It's a good idea of how his eyes will look when they are finished, sans the mirroring.
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I would like to think that I'll be finished with this within the next 7 days... But I've been trying to hammer out an issue with Roy's metal texture freezing the game with Albafika's aid. Appears to be filesize based, so that's...Problematic...
I was using the backsheathe model(AKA, I copied the Max file and deleted the side and "no sheathe" stuff) to test it, but as soon as he breaks a metal box, I hear that famed BEEP... But, I've a few more tricks up my sleeve...
No .rel ports on the Vault, unless they're made by the mod's original creator? No packs on the Vault unless they include at least some (a majority?) of your own work? Did you settle on anything for plagiarism?
I need to know so I can edit the rules accordingly.
I'm personally against .rel ports, given how they're pretty much a grab for someone else's glory and require no real effort, assuming that the .rel and codes are correct, and the character is able to be replaced via a .rel port to begin with. (Kirby cannot be replaced via .rels)
I mean, .rel porting stages isn't allowed on the Vault as far as I can tell, and this is the same general thing. The .rels and codes are interchangeable for any PSA they were made for. This means a Marth .rel edited to port him over Wario can be used for a Roy over Wario, Sephiroth over Wario, and any other Marth PSA as well. Literally just taking the .rel from one hack and slapping it and the codes on another.
...Although, maybe we should implement some sort of a .rel database as mentioned a page back, so that people who aren't willing to learn and properly make .rels can obtain them that way or something...
As for packs, it's all stuff that's on the Vault to begin with, so...I just don't see the point. Most of the time these go uncredited as well, so it's as if someone just threw their SD contents into an upload.
Haven't we all seen packs with vague things like "credit to everyone who made the stuff in this pack" or "I take no credit for anything is this pack", not even naming a soul or even contributing anything new that they made? They probably haven't a clue or a care who made the stuff .__.
I tend to suspect that this, like .rel ports, might have to do with the desire for more DL's. Poking through the Vault isn't that hard, it just requires not being lazy. Even for Newcomers it doesn't seem like it's too confusing.
Some people might be surprised with what might catch their eye if they took the time to view the Vault, as most packs just seem to be the same "popular" stuff again and again. Shadow, Cloud, Sephiroth, and Mewtwo, be they models or full movesets with one usually over Olimar or DK, seem to be in most packs anyway.
I liked Naso's idea about plagiarism. No uploading the exact same thing someone else made - it needs to be obviously changed(And credit given, if not a collaboration). Admittedly, this is easier to see with character or stage textures, but if it's a moveset, this might get a little trickier...
If someone used another person's moveset and animations as a base for their own project, I'd see that as acceptable as long as they credit the person who made the base.
Although, I do not like the idea of the aforementioned base just having some minor tweaks and being released, like someone else just changing all the flags to be ice attacks, or giving them a 20 jumps, making them spawn items with taunts, etc.
What I mean is to make it into something new, retaining some of the qualities of the base that they've chosen, but at the same time being obviously different in many regards, like many new animations, changing functions of a lot of moves in a way that requires effort, etc
Well, I've been working hard on Roy and I guess I'll post some more progress.
As you can see, I've got Roy's legs completely rigged, and he's no longer looking melted below the waist now...Just his pants and below, though. Haven't started rigging the tunic yet... *shudders*
Another sexy shot of his legs. Also, there are no more vertices automatically rigged to the XRotN or YRotN bones now.
His fingers on his right hand have been mostly vertexed into the correct position based on how he holds his sword in his animations.
...Just....Um....Ignore the funny glove issue. I was experimenting with his glove's rigging and forgot to change it back before I exported the model again...
I have all of his faces rigged now, and I was touching up the normals on his Blink face, due to how messy the eyelids looked in particular...
I hate normals. I've also got the hair below the back of his headband rigged to the best of my ability...Eating lead paint chips was more fun.
Not sure why the cape is so much messier looking now. Haven't touched it yet, but it's rigged itself to both ShoulderN nodes .__.
I've also rotated his shoulder pads into a more accurate position. Kinda hard to tell from that animation, as I had positioned them based on the vertex I did from a while back. First pic shows it better, I guess...
Concerning .REL ports, I think they should not be permitted at all.
They're basically renaming the actual Hack and adding a .Rel to the DL.
What if the creator of the PSA has patched all of the functioning .rels and created stability codes for each .rel port and has them in their download. Would that be alright seeing as how they are, like the PSA, also created by the same person?
I'd like to participate more in the discussion of .REL character ports, but I must confess that I barely know a damn thing about how they work or how much work they take to make. I've just never bothered with them. Is it difficult to .REL port a PSA or can any joe-shmoe pull it off in an hour or two?
It's literally just taking an edited .rel from one upload and the codes and slapping it on another. editing the .rel isn't hard either, you just need to change a few values in hex and it's good to go.
You can patch a .rel in about 1 minute and 30 seconds if you know which values to look for. I've got plenty of .rel patching experience. So...Literally anyone and their Grandma can do this.
I agree with you about .rels having no place on the Vault. Other ports that aren't a glitch-fest and have taken some serious time and effort to make sure everything works, on the other hand, I'm okay with.
Actually, it's my stab at the theoretical Brawl Roy that should've been. ...Ironically enough, it uses pieces from the Melee model, though. Eh heh heh heh ^_^'
I haven't made a post in here for a while. Luckily I've made some significant progress on a certain Lord who made his debut outside of Fire Emblem >:3
After adjusting his textures to fit with Brawl's picky digits and FINALLY finishing up about a bazillion tweaks, edits, or in some cases remaking some model parts altogether, I've finally started to rig that custom Roy! Here's some pics;
" ! "
He doesn't have moving eyes or anything yet, or eye shine textures or anything, but I won't worry about those until the rig is complete. I was too excited to wait much longer before finally trying him out in-game :3
I've only been rigging him since yesterday and haven't touched his lower half at all yet, sans his metallic boot thingies...So, uh...That's why he looks like a melted marshmallow from the waist down...
This picture is of him over Marth is to show off how I've implemented the model changer event. This model currently has all 3 sheathe variations on the same one. I'll copy him later and delete the excess models.
The back sheathe model will sheathe the sword behind him, side sheathe will be the same as Marth's, and the no sheathe version will "sheathe" a full copy of his sword's model behind him. No longer will Roy PSA's need to have him climb ladders or applaud with a sword in hand, or...Painstakingly translate it to the preferred location ;_;
...Why am I getting Deja Vu from speaking about the sheathe...?
Roy is not amused...Hard to believe that I took Brawl Marth's face and turned it into ~that~, eh?(Half Blink Face)
Roy closing his eyes...Not much more to say here, I guess.
Ow!Ow!Ow! /luigi ...Ahem....This is Roy in pain! :3c
"Eeeyuh!" This is Roy with his mouth open/his talk face.
What happened to you was actual plagiarism. What I'm talking about is people crying plagiarism because they we not asked permission. Being asked permission, and getting recognized are not the same thing, and have nothing to do with each other. Actually If someone edits your hack, I think It should be taken as a complement, because It means they thought your hack was good enough to be used as a base.
Heh...I feel a lot better after reading that now. Thanks.
I guess my biggest issue is wanting to be recognized for my efforts, but I'm still not a very well-known Brawl modder, and my greatest work is of a character who's not really that popular, either. With credit being practically the only tie to my efforts, it feels like I don't have a lot of solid proof when I say that something that I've made is mine, but then again, my personal thief's antics have made me paranoid...
I'm still not fond of .rel ports, though, but this is why I have patched all but 5 .rels in my download to sate the desires of having a Marth-PSA of any kind over whomever, though.
But, all that aside, I do like letting people use my animations for their own projects. I've just...Never really seen it from the perspective of people liking my work so much that they want to base something off of it...Heh heh. I suppose we'd all be better off with keeping that thought in our hearts :3
Well, as far as this plagiarism thing goes, here's my thoughts; (Warning: Fortress of Text)
We may be using models and whatnot made by the creators of Brawl, but it's not like we can use those for any monetary gain without stirring up legal trouble. Credit is no issue either, as aside from an import, these files come from the people who made this game. It's not like some 14 year old fool can claim that they single handedly created Marth's moveset file, model, animations and whatnot - It's common knowledge that everything about him was created by people whose job it was to do so.
If someone makes a hack, that's all they get out of it - The product they've poured their heart and soul into creating...Possibly some fame amongst the community, but certainly no money or anything like that.
My reason for joining this Brawl modding community was to put back my favourite character from Melee, who I feel was injustly cut. If he was in Brawl normally, I would not've taken up Brawl modding, met anyone from this community, or even found this site. He was what made the series fun for me. As a result, I have been working very hard and squiring myself in the arts of animating, model work and all sorts of things for the sake of putting him back since late February of 2011.
Why would I bring that up? Well, I have had a certain person who has been repeatedly stealing my hard work and trying to pass it off as his own. He even uploaded it to the vault once under one of his alias, "luigiturd". He did literally nothing to change the hack at all, and claimed it was his own work, and even claimed ~I~ was the thief.
I certainly know what it's like to have my hard work stolen, at least three times, by the same guy no less. Is that not plagiarism? All I get out of my dedication to remaking Roy is just that. I'm not being payed to spend all my free time on a computer, struggling with Autodesk for his model, or mindlessly devoting myself to animation after animation after animation. Heck, I could be outside or playing games or doing other things that are less stressful than slaving away on work that will be inevitably robbed.
The idea of someone else being able to make a hack "theirs" by making a mere edit to it feels...Silly. Would that mean one single edit of a keyframe to a random animation in my Roy PSA's Fitmotion file means it's not longer mine? That's ridiculous, by that same logic, if I colour Lucario red, it's my model and not Sora Limited's then? All that does is make me feel discouraged about bothering to continue with my projects...Or at least about releasing them to the public, and I know many others feel the same way for larger works.
The various mods that people make for Brawl, on the one hand, yes, it uses property of its creators, but on the other hand, it draws more people in does it not? If I could not mod Brawl, I would've left that disc on the store shelf to rot. All the fun mods that people make for it and other Wii games attract more attention, and then more people will want to buy the game so they can get in on the fun too. This would mean that the plagiarism of creating Brawlmods brings in more bucks.
I'm all for the idea of sharing models and stuff, but if it comes to something as extensive and time consuming as an animation-heavy moveset, with all the extra goodies like SFX and whatnot included as well, I really feel permission should be applicable here. Heck, I'm alright with people using whatever animations I make, but all I wish is to be recognized and credited for my work.
Would you take someone's mustard and use it without permission, or would you ask first?
...Also, I think these "packs" of things that are just a collection of stuff already on vault need to go.If it's already on the vault, I feel people should just poke around for them. And if they're new, why not just show them the ropes form the get-go? It also feels like these packs are mostly just an attempt to leech off of more well-known people to feed one's download count. .rel ports as well...If the download count was removed, I feel this would be a less frequent occurance.
My only exception the above is if someone has left the community. In this sense it's as if they've "died" and their work is their belongings from that life.
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