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Author Topic: PEACHIEST PREVIEWS| Coming Generation (Last Update 07/22/2010)  (Read 99631 times)
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pinkprincess
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« Reply #240 on: April 19, 2010, 12:04:50 AM »


xD yea thats true, peach does have a big head
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    « Reply #241 on: June 17, 2010, 02:23:57 AM »


    cough read or die
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    « Reply #242 on: June 18, 2010, 02:53:03 PM »


    "No one is allowed to update my work as long as I give you the permisson to do it"

    This line is interesting.


    Also I don't see the big deal as long as they give you credit, but meh.
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    « Reply #243 on: June 18, 2010, 03:04:41 PM »


    There's been some basically re-releasing of textures he's made on vertexes other people made, by people that do essentially nothing but take the texture, take the vertex, combine them and releasing as their own.
    As well as releases with very minor edits made (without permission) and getting more downloads than the original. It's happened to a few people already, not just JuLz, and none of us like it.
    The person releasing the hack should be the one that put the most work into it.
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    « Reply #244 on: June 18, 2010, 03:32:01 PM »


    That's funny that you mention that. I remember "HD" Rosalina had more downloads than the original one and i dont remember LenSho complaining about that.

    Marcov15 edit: If the word is censored, it's for a reason. Don't try to avoid it, or else.
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    « Reply #245 on: June 18, 2010, 04:20:01 PM »


    There's been some basically re-releasing of textures he's made on vertexes other people made, by people that do essentially nothing but take the texture, take the vertex, combine them and releasing as their own.
    As well as releases with very minor edits made (without permission) and getting more downloads than the original. It's happened to a few people already, not just JuLz, and none of us like it.
    The person releasing the hack should be the one that put the most work into it.

    By that logic, Nintendo should be re-releasing Super Smash Bros. Brawl with our hacks since they put more work into actually making the game, Than we did simply editing parts of It. Seriously, How many times does this need to be explained? If you're going to be that literal about It, ALL hackers are thieves, Including you. Because we’re all taking models and textures made by the creators of the game and re-releasing them without the permission of the creators.

    Hacking is a hobby, And as such hacks are made and used for the purpose of having fun. Hacks are not works of art. They're not made simply just to look at them, Or to decorate your house. They are made, And used, To have fun with while playing the game. If someone decides to edit the another persons hack to match their own personal preference then that's fine. And If that person decides to be a nice person and release It to the public so other people can use too, Then that's fine too. Just as long as their is credit given for the original work. Which is actually hypocritical since nobody ever gives credit to the original creators of the game.

    Let's think about this, We have taken, And used as a base, Just about every single file on the Brawl disc. And yet, The only thing we ever credit Sakurai for is tripping. If what you say is true, Then no one would ever be able to create a hack for this game since none of us have permission from the original creators to do so. A hack would need to be a completely original model, With It's own textures, Moveset, And animations. And even then, We are still modifying a game without permission from the original creators to do so.

    Now picture this, A hack user requests an edit of Hacker B’s work. Hacker A agrees to make It and asks Hack B for permission. Hacker B says no which leaves Hacker A to tell the hack requester “Sorry, I can’t make It because he says I can’t”. In this situation who loses out? The user. Removing a hack does not benefit the original creator in any way, And It only deprives the user of happiness. Is It really worth It to deprive users of happiness just because of something like "Permission"? If this was credit we were talking about, I would completely agree that credit should be given where It's due. As long as proper credit is given, There shouldn't be a problem.

    I've seen hacks I've made edited, And I don't say a word. I'm just happy that people even use It. Can’t you just take the satisfaction of knowing you've made people happy and let it be enough rather than having to let everyone know you made It possible first? The fact that people make edits to your hack means that It's good. If It wasn't good, Then they wouldn't even use It let alone want to change It, And It would be ignored. Most people don't edit hacks to screw the original creator over. It's ether "I want to change It to my liking", "I want to make a package for people who want to use this on every slot", Or "I want to improve It".

    One last thing: There is no such thing as “Baseless” in this community. We use work from Nintendo (including other Wii games) as a base no matter what because we can't make a completely new file. With Brawlbox It's possible, But nobody does that regardless, And we still need a MDL0 file. And I doubt anyone would ever ask Nintendo for permission. The only hacks we don't need bases for are BRSTMs and THPs, Because we can create them without one. However, We always use a song or movie that we didn’t create ourselves. And a texture hack (Or vertex hack) no matter what will use a Nintendo made MDL0 file. So even If everything is edited, Effort would still have been put in by Nintendo. I don't think I need to say anymore, I believe I've made my point.
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    « Reply #246 on: June 18, 2010, 04:27:15 PM »


    There you are JuLz.  Tongue
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    « Reply #247 on: June 18, 2010, 05:56:35 PM »


    That's funny that you mention that. I remember "HD" Rosalina had more downloads than the original one and i dont remember LenSho bitching about that.
    You do realize Julz and LenSho are both on the KC:MM team, right?

    By the way, nice way to avoid the censure system. Don't do it again. EVER.

    Quote from: PAVGN
    By that logic, Nintendo should be re-releasing Super Smash Bros. Brawl with our hacks since they put more work into actually making the game, Than we did simply editing parts of It. Seriously, How many times does this need to be explained? If you're going to be that literal about It, ALL  hackers are thieves, Including you. Because we’re all taking models and textures made by the creators of the game and re-releasing them without the permission of the creators.
    Stop trying to push things that far so that they fit your needs. While that example is true, no one could care less about it.

    What happens if a company steals a product from another company? Do you seriously think that the other company won't sue them? The same applies here. Would you feel alright if someone re-released one of your textures and had twice the number of downloads YOUR texture had? Would you be able to accept that the texture YOU put work and effort in was just slightly edited and now someone is more popular than you because of YOUR hard work? I wouldn't. And if you are ok with it, I can assure you that most people in this community aren't.

    Quote from: PAVGN
    Hacking is a hobby, And as such hacks are made and used for the purpose of having fun. Hacks are not works of art. They're not made simply just to look at them, Or to decorate your house. They are made, And used, To have fun with while playing the game. If someone decides to edit the another persons hack to match their own personal preference then that's fine. And If that person decides to be a nice person and release It to the public so other people can use too, Then that's fine too. Just as long as their is credit given for the original work. Which is actually hypocritical since nobody ever gives credit to the original creators of the game.
    Maybe you see it as a hobby, but there are a lot of people here in this community. There are people who take this very seriously and make textures for people to enjoy, but they make them to enjoy their selves too. Plagiarism is something that doesn't let them do that. It prevents the joy of being proud of your job from occurring, and causes a lot of sadness and rage.

    I'm fine with people wanting to change some textures to match their personal preference, but if they want to release it, they should talk with the one that made the texture first. It's just fair.

    Quote from: PAVGN
    Let's think about this, We have taken, And used as a base, Just about every single file on the Brawl disc. And yet, The only thing we ever credit Sakurai for is tripping. If what you say is true, Then no one would ever be able to create a hack for this game since none of us have permission from the original creators to do so. A hack would need to be a completely original model, With It's own textures, Moveset, And animations. And even then, We are still modifying a game without permission from the original creators to do so.
    Once again, nobody could care less about this. Since this is pretty much the same talk as the first paragraph, I'll be moving on.

    Quote from: PAVGN
    Now picture this, A hack user requests an edit of Hacker B’s work. Hacker A agrees to make It and asks Hack B for permission. Hacker B says no which leaves Hacker A to tell the hack requester “Sorry, I can’t make It because he says I can’t”. In this situation who loses out? The user. Removing a hack does not benefit the original creator in any way, And It only deprives the user of happiness. Is It really worth It to deprive users of happiness just because of something like "Permission"? If this was credit we were talking about, I would completely agree that credit should be given where It's due. As long as proper credit is given, There shouldn't be a problem.
    "Hacker B" has all the right to stop HIS texture from being released to the public. It's his texture, after all. Nothing is stopping "Hacker A" from making his own version for personal use, or to distribute it in a PM (to a single person, not more).

    Quote from: PAVGN
    I've seen hacks I've made edited, And I don't say a word. I'm just happy that people even use It. Can’t you just take the satisfaction of knowing you've made people happy and let it be enough rather than having to let everyone know you made It possible first? The fact that people make edits to your hack means that It's good. If It wasn't good, Then they wouldn't even use It let alone want to change It, And It would be ignored. Most people don't edit hacks to screw the original creator over. It's ether "I want to change It to my liking", "I want to make a package for people who want to use this on every slot", Or "I want to improve It".
    Well, as I've said before, maybe you don't really care about it, but other people do. Want to improve it? Ask for permission. Want to change it to your liking? Ask for permission. Want to make a package for people that want to use this on every slot? Ask for permission. Of course, you always have the option to do it without permission, but only for your personal use.

    Quote from: PAVGN
    One last thing: There is no such thing as “Baseless” in this community. We use work from Nintendo (including other Wii games) as a base no matter what because we can't make a completely new file. With Brawlbox It's possible, But nobody does that regardless, And we still need a MDL0 file. And I doubt anyone would ever ask Nintendo for permission. The only hacks we don't need bases for are BRSTMs and THPs, Because we can create them without one. However, We always use a song or movie that we didn’t create ourselves. And a texture hack (Or vertex hack) no matter what will use a Nintendo made MDL0 file. So even If everything is edited, Effort would still have been put in by Nintendo. I don't think I need to say anymore, I believe I've made my point.
    Once again. Nobody could care less about it. Do you realize you said this in three of your paragraphs? There's no need to be so repetitive, we get your idea.

    I took the time to write this so that maybe you can consider the existence of someone else that's not you. That whole post was "I don't care", "I wouldn't", "I'm fine with it", "I can", and so on. Have you ever considered someone else's opinion? I guess not.

     
    « Last Edit: June 18, 2010, 08:33:13 PM by Marcov15 » Logged

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    « Reply #248 on: June 18, 2010, 09:04:25 PM »


    All I got from PAVGN was "blah blah I don't know what Counterstrike is."

    Seriously, look it up, then come back and tell me how bad it is that we're using Nintendo's stuff as a base so I can laugh at you more than I already am.

    Releasing minor edits of other people's work is plagiarism. No one gives a [censored] what you, personally, are OK with. It doesn't matter what you're OK with. You have no authority, and you have no right to say what other people should accept when it comes to having their work stolen.

    It is thievery. Take the Athena Asamiya PSA+texture that was released not long ago. Sure, it uses Peach as a base, but Athena and Peach are so far removed from each other -- the creator (can't remember who) put so much work into making his unique creation -- that accusing the creator of stealing Peach is like accusing a fantasy writer of stealing elves from Tolkien. Tolkien laid the groundwork, built the foundation, and everyone else builds from it. But if someone took that fantasy writer's work, changed a few names and slightly rewrote the ending, that would be plagiarism. And that's what you and so many other people have done.

    Brawl is our foundation. Without it, none of this would exist. Saying "lolhypocrisy" doesn't work when "stealing" from Nintendo is a necessity of our existence. There's a lot more need for us to "steal" from Nintendo than there is for you to steal that Athena and release a no-panties 5-minute edit.

    Making it is fine. You can do whatever you want with the hacks you download, just like you can do whatever you want with Brawl, the game you bought. But re-releasing minor edits of other people's work is plagiarism and will not be permitted here in the near future.
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    « Reply #249 on: June 18, 2010, 09:31:42 PM »


    You have no authority, and you have no right to say what other people should accept when it comes to having their work stolen.

    --------------

    But re-releasing minor edits of other people's work is plagiarism and will not be permitted here in the near future.

    ...You know, this isn't my business at all, and I don't even have an opinion whatsoever about all fo this...But since you made me laugh more than you're laughing at PAVGN, I have to say this.

    Exactly what is it in your mind that gives you the idea that you can actually stop people from re-releasing it? Since you, while an Admin, don't have much true "authority" yourself? And I don't mean just here, but if people were to re-release them in other places? XD

    It's not like it's so serious that you can legally do anything about it. ¦D

    This is an actual question for once by the way. Not trying at all to be a smartass about it. (Even if I might still be being one.)

    Or should I be under the assumption that you somehow miraculously have no problem with it if it's re-released somewhere else? Because that would be rather hypocritical. o_o
    « Last Edit: June 18, 2010, 09:40:00 PM by Hyper Wave Kusanagi » Logged



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    « Reply #250 on: June 18, 2010, 10:11:19 PM »


    I'm fine with people wanting to change some textures to match their personal preference, but if they want to release it, they should talk with the one that made the texture first. It's just fair.
    I agree with that completely...

    I remember when I first released the Captain Falco texture, I think that it hadn't even passed a week when Wave ported Falco's model with my texture over Captain Falcon.
    I posted in his thread saying it would have been nice if he noticed me before what he wanted to make, etc. but I was ok with what he made since it was a good idea and he gave me credit for the texture.

    The thing is, people usually take what took you several hours to accomplish, just edit it a little, and upload it as if they had actually made an important change, or many times claim it as their own work.
    If you have good luck they credit "they guy who made the original", if you have better luck they credit you, if you are incredibly lucky they even tell you what they made... if lady luck loves you, they ask for permission (this has never happened to me, yet people take parts or the whole work, edit it and post as something new and own).

    Yes, we are "hackers"... Yes, we are modding a game without permission of the creators...
    But even among hackers there most be rules and some sort of courtesy.

    For example, there's some guy I don't even know, he took the Mario Mafio texture and vertex I made, put some very simple kind of shades and a scar and uploaded it.
    A 5 min. or less work... at least he's giving credit... but if he didn't notify me, didn't give credit, uploaded it and it somehow got more downloads and recognition than my original version, I would be really frustrated since it is all the work I made with minor edits and he just stole it to get recognition.

    This kind of "robbery" between "hackers" can't really be compared to "hackers" and the creators of the game.
    The creators of the game will always be recognized worldwide as the ones who made the entire game, "hackers" at most can be recognized as modding  talented guys... a brawl hacker will never be more recognized or have more credit than the company and creators of the game.
    In simple terms... Smash will always be seen as a Nintendo game, never as a KC:MM game. Textures and edited models on the other hand can easily have their credit stolen.

    It depends on each person, there's people who don't mind as long as they are credited... there are people who get mad if you use what they made... that's why it is good to ask for permission first.
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    « Reply #251 on: June 18, 2010, 10:32:02 PM »


    Stop trying to push things that far so that they fit your needs. While that example is true, no one could care less about it.

    What happens if a company steals a product from another company? Do you seriously think that the other company won't sue them? The same applies here. Would you feel alright if someone re-released one of your textures and had twice the number of downloads YOUR texture had? Would you be able to accept that the texture YOU put work and effort in was just slightly edited and now someone is more popular than you because of YOUR hard work? I wouldn't. And if you are ok with it, I can assure you that most people in this community aren't.

    One company stealing from another is a terrible analogy to people making unauthorized changes to a company's product. Because a company stealing from another company involves copyright, Money, Laws, Etc. While people hacking a game doesn't involve any of that whatsoever.

    Quote
    Maybe you see it as a hobby, but there are a lot of people here in this community. There are people who take this very seriously and make textures for people to enjoy, but they make them to enjoy their selves too. Plagiarism is something that doesn't let them do that. It prevents the joy of being proud of your job from occurring, and causes a lot of sadness and rage.

    I'm fine with people wanting to change some textures to match their personal preference, but if they want to release it, they should talk with the one that made the texture first. It's just fair.

    I'm sorry, But If someone takes their hobby seriously, It's because probably It's all they got in their lives. And when that’s all they have in their life, It really gets under their skin. I actually do think It's possible for texture hacking to be considered an interesting art, Kind of like how graffiti can be art. But believe me It will never make any of us rich, Let alone pay the bills around the house. And If you do take what you've learned from being a hacker to become a game designer/texture artist. What are you going to do If some people find a way to hack the game and change the textures that you made? Sue the hackers and shut them down?

    Quote
    "Hacker B" has all the right to stop HIS texture from being released to the public. It's his texture, after all. Nothing is stopping "Hacker A" from making his own version for personal use, or to distribute it in a PM (to a single person, not more).

    Except that once the hack is in the hands of the hack user, They can choose to make It public anyway. And If they really want to be malicious about It, They can choose to NOT credit the original creator, OR the person who edited It.

    Quote
    Well, as I've said before, maybe you don't really care about it, but other people do. Want to improve it? Ask for permission. Want to change it to your liking? Ask for permission. Want to make a package for people that want to use this on every slot? Ask for permission. Of course, you always have the option to do it without permission, but only for your personal use.

    Sorry, But when you put something on the internet It's open to modification by anyone. As I said before hacking is a hobby, Furthermore It is a hobby in which people can do whatever they want with It. As long as proper credit is given where It's due there shouldn't be a problem. And as long as proper credit is given It can't be called "Stealing". Stealing is uploading someone else's work without any mention of or credit given to the person who actually made It. If a hacker edits another persons hack and gives the original hacker credit (Saying I did this, And this person did that), Then It's not, And It can't be called, Stealing. And "Steal" isn't the right word to use anyway, Since this is a hacking community and not a serious business. There's no money or profit involved in anything that we do. And I actually think It's worse for two hackers to make the same thing, And the worse hack gets more downloads than the better hack. Because regardless of what edits are made to It, It's still your work that they're downloading regardless. And I think It's more understandable to be upset over someone making their own version of a hack you made, And It gets more downloads/recognition than your when theirs is not as good as yours.

    Quote
    Once again. Nobody could care less about it. Do you realize you said this in three of your paragraphs? There's no need to be so repetitive.

    Don't you mean "Couldn't care less"? "Could care less" means It's possible to care less. When you don't care about something at all, It's impossible to care less. Hence the phrase "Couldn't care less". But that's beside the point...

    Releasing minor edits of other people's work is plagiarism. No one gives a [censored] what you, personally, are OK with. It doesn't matter what you're OK with. You have no authority, and you have no right to say what other people should accept when it comes to having their work stolen.

    Quote
    Making it is fine. You can do whatever you want with the hacks you download, just like you can do whatever you want with Brawl, the game you bought. But re-releasing minor edits of other people's work is plagiarism and will not be permitted here in the near future.

    Well "Plagiarism" isn't the right word to use ether because again, We're not dealing with copyright, Money, Etc. If I write an article and in the article I include an excerpt from a George Carlin book, But I don't quote the book or cite the source, That's plagiarism. But If my article contains the excerpt with It completely quoted, As well as the original author and the book It came from cited, It's not plagiarism. Editing a video game hack isn't the same thing as copyright infringement. I can see someone arguing that they are the same or similar. But really It's not the same thing. Also...

    Exactly what is it in your mind that gives you the idea that you can actually stop people from re-releasing it? Since you, while an Admin, don't have much true "authority" yourself? And I don't mean just here, but if people were to re-release them in other places? XD

    It's not like it's so serious that you can legally do anything about it. ¦D

    What he said. You people may have control over what is and isn't allowed in the Brawlvault, But you can't have complete control over the community as a whole. You can remove a hack from the Brawlvault but It'll still be available on the file sharing site It's hosted on, And the people who made the edits will just find another place to put those download links. Nobody's ever going to be able to completely stop others from releasing edits, There will always be another place the host the hacks. What It all comes down to is this:

    It depends on each person, there's people who don't mind as long as they are credited... there are people who get mad if you use what they made...

    That, And that we're all (Okay maybe not all) here to have fun and enjoy ourselves. And I believe we shouldn't let a little thing like "Permission" get in the way of that. But as Vyse said, Nobody gives a [censored] about what I'm personally ok with.
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    « Reply #252 on: June 18, 2010, 11:19:36 PM »


    While I don't have a strong argument in  one way or another, all I have to say is  that if you ask permission, they will most likely say "yes". It doesn't take that long, and prevents any nasty confrontations.

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    « Reply #253 on: June 19, 2010, 03:44:44 AM »


    @ItallianStallion

    LenSh and I work together and I had that Rosalina HD Texture weeks before he made his own, after he released his version I ASKED for permission to update mine with his vertex!

    And with that credit thing, wow I will tell you that we'll have like 20 different Rosalina's available to download just in different colores or shorter dresses, because people will take it as "base" -> YAY Made a new Texture!!! Cheesy
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    « Reply #254 on: June 19, 2010, 10:10:40 AM »


    Man, Wave, I've always thought you were annoying, but I've never thought you were illiterate until now.

    "and it will not be permitted here in the near future."

    See if you can spot the key word.

    Also, PAVGN: you're bad at arguing semantics. Don't try it. What you're doing is plagiarism. You're not including an "excerpt" of someone else's work; you're using all of it save for tiny edits.

    Quote from: PAVGN
    Don't you mean "Couldn't care less"? "Could care less" means It's possible  to care less. When you don't care about something at all, It's impossible to care less. Hence the phrase "Couldn't care less". But that's beside the point...

    "Nobody couldn't care less" would be a double negative. If you're going to lecture someone on grammar, make sure you understand it first.
    « Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 10:14:10 AM by Vyse » Logged


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