Kratos Aurion v.2.25...Updated 3-11-11 @5:00PM

[Psycho Philia]

Yeah I know this is possible to be locked after the slash that he suggests. I'm not really aware of all possibilities of Psa but I know this. But it doesn't deserve at all to be a grab, because normally a grab allows you to hit your opponent before you throw him, here it is not possible, a grab doesn't have lag if you miss, here it is not possible too, and the most important, grab involves hands, and here it is absolutely not the case! And grabs doesn't inflict any damage too, and here the logic should be this "grab" movement to inflict damages, I know the slash can inflict 0% damage, but here the logic wants it to inflict damage, which is absolutely in contradiction of grabs! Because when you grab the opponent, you don't inflict damage!

And even if the opponent is unable to move because he's locked, I keep what I said, he's unable to move but he's waiting to be hit. Which is completely absurd, because we can't be locked by that by a simple slash! By a magic called stop flaw at least ok, but by a simple slash like this, no!

[Albafika]

Ugh... Not him again... I don't know what that guy has against me... (He contradicts EVERYTHING I say.)

Anyway, Look at this Kratos Combo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1UpibKrhk4

Having it in a way, used like the video above. Used to activate a solo insta-spell. Because Tales of characters don't have actual grab moves, (well most of them) So instead of thinking of a custom pummel and throw animations, that Kratos would have a simple slash and magic for throws.

He always contradicts you? You only have 3 posts, and 1 of 'em was in a Sasuke thread where Psycho didn't contradict you, so what are you talking about? o_O

Pride: Psycho never said it wasn't possible, he only stated it's absurd for Kratos, which I'm storngly inclined to agree.

[Puraidou]

Pride: Psycho never said it wasn't possible, he only stated it's absurd for Kratos, which I'm storngly inclined to agree.

I never said i disagree either xD

[Royal_Blade]

You make a simple slash in super smash bros brawl and the opponent will wait peacefully to be hit by a spell? Ridiculous!

It works in symphonia, why not have it work here?

The grabs imply automatically a use of an hand or a tool to make the opponent come next to you so that you can hold him, then you can hit him! And you want to remove that? You're completely contradictory against the spirit of Super smash, because the grabs that I say exist from the very beginning, from super smash bros on n64. And the hittings when grabbed exist from Super smash bros melee, and it is universal for all characters, this is something absolutely necessary! How can you suggest to remove something like this, especially when it is truly possible to respect that?

I never said i wanted to remove it. It's just an altered activation.
and with the unison attack, your still "grabbing" them aren't you? I mean it's like: You Hit > They Stun > You Throw (In this case cast magic)

Also, don't Link,Toon Link, Samus, ZSS, and Lucas all have ending lag if they don't connect their grabs? So whats the problem with this?

Edit: @Wolfric: I was talking about someone he mentioned. But that's not important.

[Albafika]

I have to admit, reading the page 17 gave me a big laugh. XD

I'm a huge fan of TOS myself, but I haven't tried this for lazyness and 'cause I'm still messing around with Sephy, but I've read everything that's been said in the whole 18 pages, if you're going for a TOS1 Kratos, which'd be the FS, Pride?

@Royal_Blade: I now see who was he talking about, forget what I said earlier. XD

[Puraidou]

I'm a huge fan of TOS myself, but I haven't tried this for lazyness and 'cause I'm still messing around with Sephy, but I've read everything that's been said in the whole 18 pages, if you're going for a TOS1 Kratos, which'd be the FS, Pride?

To be honest, i have no clue XD I think his FS is fine as it is. Unless people want a stronger Judgment as the FS. Instant cast with 2x the damage of the normal casted 1 perhaps? I don't know, i'm just typing my mind right now XD

[Psycho Philia]

A grab doesn't hit in first place! A grab allows you to grab your opponent so that you can hold him in one hand at least, and doesn't inflict any damage at all. Which is absolutely not the case for what you suggested because the thing you suggest for the grab is a slash.

And besides, if this is truly the unisson attack, there will be a distance between Kratos and the opponent, and what happen for those who are between? They will be hit as well by the throw, which is absolutely not normal! And besides, because of this distance, you have lower chances to be hit with your opponent you should hold, which is not how the throws work.

With your idea, you can't even hit your opponent because you don't hold him in one hand.

Oh, and an other thing, like Judas, I'm objective, so I really don't care what you wanted to do in first place, I just see the facts, and the facts are that you removed the grab hitting what is truly an aspect of Super smash bros brawl, and besides the grab function, as you don't even respect the fact that when you grab an opponent, you don't inflict damage, and you hold your opponent in hand, which is again not the case here, and finally all the properties of throw, which normally can only hit the opponent you should hold. So what you suggested is not a grab, it is a mere fact, and as what you suggested was for a grab, and it is absolutely in fact different from a grab, the fact say you removed the grab function, and all that is tied with this. And it is totally unacceptable!

[ArcSage]

Heres what I would like most in the next update-

-Change his spell casting stance
-Give him more damage resistence when casting a spell. any attack greater than 15 damages will cancel the spell cast.
-Increase healing abilities. (casting guardian doesn't heal fast enough and since you have to stand perfectly still to get healed, it's more efficient to spam the up taunt; which doesn't seem right in my opinion)

I have a suggestion apart from these though-
Wouldn't it be neat if when going into overdrive via the up taunt, you transformed into judgment kratos? Meaning your wings would be irretractable and FULL knockback resistance when casting spells.

[Psycho Philia]

Arc Sage, about what you said:

The spell stance: Ok, but be more precise, what do you want in fact? Because if you're talking about the hand which is pointed below, of course it is a very important change to do, according to me. I exagerate of course, but it is true that it is not normal that his hand his pointed like this.

More damage resistance for casting a spell, it has already been discussed, and it will be implemanted.

The healings abilities too I think.

For the angel thing, be more precise please I don't understand this history about wings irrectractable, and especially this full resistance knockback. But I can already say that normally overdrive and shining bind will use these wings, if he can of course.

[ArcSage]

As to the spell stance, that's what I was referring to, and I agree with you.
I'm so glad that the damage resistance and healing upgrades will be implemented!

As far as the judgment Kratos thing goes, it wouldn't be imperative that his wings are irrectractable, but when you fight Kratos as an angel in his judgment form, his wings are there. So it would just make sense that his wings stay on when in judgment mode. I think.

Thanks for questioning the knockback resistance idea- Sometimes when I'm writing things, it make complete sense to me and I expect others to know exactly what I'm talking about.
Basically, this knockback resistance would be heavy armor that keeps you from flinching AT ALL when getting hit by opponents. So, I should have said that it's the same thing we discussed earlier about the 15% damage resistance, but with WAY more resistance. This would let you cast spells without having to worry about being interrupted.

[Zeljius]

Barbatos/Philla, calm down. dont down talk on people's suggestions. they're just stating their opinion. if you're gonna disagree with it, try and be nice about it

oh, and Divine. imma send you a Message on things for kratos. its huge.
never have i willingly wrote so much in my life xD

[Psycho Philia]

Hum, ok, so I suppose you want the wings to be here as long as you're in overlimit mode. I think it is what Divine Overlord thought.

But for the full resistance knockback, I disagree. I know where you want to go with this, it is not a bad idea, but we're in super smash bros brawl, so the resistance knockback that was already decided (each hit that makes 15% of damage or more nullify the spell), it is already a great advantage. Of course in Overlimit, we can change the number of % of damage that nullify the spell, but be careful not to fall in an excessive amount. I think 20-25% is already good when in Overlimit. I know this is not very superior, and doesn't respect truly Tales of Symphonia Overlimit, but if each time you go into Overlimit and you can cast magic without being interrupted at all, like in the game, it is a too great advantage, we can decrease the chance to being interrupted while in Overlimit than in normal mode, but not at a point like without having to worry about being interrupted.

Zeljius: Sorry, but I'm calm, and I'm also stating my opinion which I completely try to put as objective as possible, if you're talking about Royal Blade said, this is what I have done. And as I'm objective like this, if something is completely unacceptable, I say it, after all, this is the part of the opinion, and this is not a problem to prove that what he says is completely idiot, I'm not insulting him, so I don't see what the problem is. Besides, he had the right to state his opinion, so why don't I have the right to state my opinion too as harsh it can be? As long as I don't insult him, I have this right! I respect his opinion, he has the right to have an opinion and express it, but as he has this right, other people also have the right to criticize it, even if it is harsh. And I hope Royal Blade will read this, I have my own reasons that I would like him to do this, but for now, I won't say anything more.

[Zeljius]

Zeljius: Sorry, but I'm calm, and I'm also stating my opinion which I completely try to put as objective as possible, if you're talking about Royal Blade said, this is what I have done. And as I'm objective like this, if something is completely unacceptable, I say it, after all, this is the part of the opinion, and this is not a problem to prove that what he says is completely idiot, I'm not insulting him, so I don't see what the problem is. Besides, he had the right to state his opinion, so why don't I have the right to state my opinion too as harsh it can be? As long as I don't insult him, I have this right! I respect his opinion, he has the right to have an opinion and express it, but as he has this right, other people also have the right to criticize it, even if it is harsh. And I hope Royal Blade will read this, I have my own reasons that I would like him to do this, but for now, I won't say anything more.

you're insulting his opinion. what he thought of. nobody's gonna be happy if their ideas are talked down on. just try and be a little more considerate on other people's feelings

cause im pretty sure you wouldnt like it if someone talked down on your suggestions

[Psycho Philia]

I didn't insulted his opinion, I proved that his opinion was completely wrong and shouldn't be added in the game, and I explained to what point. I don't see any problem here.

If someone talked down on my suggestions? Let me see... No, in fact I would be really happy or I would see absolutely no problem. When you make a suggestion, you take the risk of someone to take down your opinion. This is the base of a debate after all. And if someone takes down my opinion, maybe there is a reason behind and maybe this is because I didn't thought of some things. So in fact, I would be happy someone to take down my opinion, of course it has to be based on something and justified, because maybe I didn't think of something and this is the only way for me to know. As long as it is based on something, I see absolutely no problem, and besides, other people have the right to do this, it is the base of a debate, I do it, so other people can do it, I'm fully aware of this. So, unfortunately Zeljius, you're wrong for your last sentence, there is only one case where you can be right, it is if someone takes down my opinion, without saying why, without basing this on something, without justifying it. In a case like this, it's true, I would not be happy, but not because he took down my opinion, but because I don't know why he did this.


I know what you will say, you're like this, but maybe the others aren't, and you're absolutely right. Maybe there are people who don't like to have their opinions took down, even if it is based on something. But in that case, I hardly see how they can make suggestions so participate to the debate... If they are so afraid about this, they should better not make any suggestion because the risk is way too high. It is a debate after all, so you make suggestions, there can be a counterpart, good or bad.

Anyway, let's stop this, after your answer of course, it would be unfair if you don't answer me, if you have something to add of course.

[DivineOverlord]

@Zeljius- i got your ideas most of it are good. i'll see what i can do.