Devil May Cry: Dante Version 1.3 Beta New Team of DO and SilentDoOm

[SiLeNtDo0m]

Flashy! Too flashy! This is what kills the balance! @_@

1) Ironic coming from one of the guys constantly giving feedback to Sephiroth
2) Dante is a naturally very flashy character.  He's from a high quality beat-em up.  They're always flashy
3) They're throws.  The flashiness of a move like a throw barely affects the balance of it at all.

I think the sliding ontop of a foe will be included in there somewhere.  Maybe the D Throw?  It's definitely the kind of badass thing Dante would do XD

[Albafika]

1) Ironic coming from one of the guys constantly giving feedback to Sephiroth
2) Dante is a naturally very flashy character.  He's from a high quality beat-em up.  They're always flashy
3) They're throws.  The flashiness of a move like a throw barely affects the balance of it at all.

I think the sliding ontop of a foe will be included in there somewhere.  Maybe the D Throw?  It's definitely the kind of badass thing Dante would do XD

1> You have no idea how many "flashy" feedback we've taken out 'cause it'd be impossible to be OP. Also, you do know my feedback is for pure balance. Oh, wait, I highly doubt you even read my posts there so you have no base to point this out.

2> Dante is flashy, but making him uthrow for using a follow-up after? Really?

3> They're throws, yeah. but, there's flashyness when he asks for a Shutgun after being said there are no slots. Gauntlet exploding? That'd have to invulve AoE for it not to be dumb, and that'd be OP for the ones around.

Anyways, I'm done giving feedback, mine's not needed when the almighty is involved, I only end up being insulted and ratted.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

1> You have no idea how many "flashy" feedback we've taken out 'cause it'd be impossible to be OP. Also, you do know my feedback is for pure balance. Oh, wait, I highly doubt you even read my posts there so you have no base to point this out.

Of course I do.  I look at the Sephiroth topic a lot.  I may not post there sure, but I'm still anxious for the project.  I just want an excellent Marth PSA and this Sephy by far has the best potential.  And whilst, yes of course his flashiness has been toned down, he is still very much a flashy character.  But that's the good thing about Sephiroth and the feedback that has been given.  He's remained flashy AND balanced.  Infact, the main imbalances were down to his old F Air and B Air amirite?

2> Dante is flashy, but making him uthrow for using a follow-up after? Really?

Looking it the suggestion again, I agree with you and apologize.  However, it's not impossible to make moves like this that still allow for balance and creativity.  It just takes the right execution.

3> They're throws, yeah. but, there's flashyness when he asks for a Shutgun after being said there are no slots. Gauntlet exploding? That'd have to invulve AoE for it not to be dumb, and that'd be OP for the ones around.

Again, it's down to how the moves are properly executed.  That D Throw for example, would probably be based off his Volcano attack, which is just a quick, not that large burst on the ground.  Heck, it's AoE is about the size of Mario's B Throw (when he is swinging the foe around, there is a hitbox on the foe he is swinging), and it wouldn't need to last long at all.

Nailing the right balance between creativity and balance as well as giving the character enough depth to make them enjoyable to play whilst still being accessible is generally the consensus of making a good PSA.  All factors and suggestions should be taken into account, and then it's down to the PSAer to pool all these together and come up with the PSA. 

[quoteAnyways, I'm done giving feedback, mine's not needed when the almighty is involved, I only end up being insulted and ratted.
[/quote]

My man, you're overreacting here completely.  Every decent PSAer knows that feedback is probably a the most valuable kind of experience they can get, however they should also have a right to be able to make their own judgements.  You're acting as though I ignore what you say and am insulting you but that's not the case.  However, if I did come out as being insulting or undermining, I sincerely apologize.

[Albafika]

I thought you meant another thing about being ironic I me saying this being one of the guys giving feedback for Sephy, I apologize for coming up to conclusions so rushed.

What I meant by flashy attacks is:

People have asked for so many ridiculous stuff to be implemented for Sephiroth in that thread, I don't even know where to begin. Like having Sephy do Heaven't Light "Up B" to follow up with the KO attack Dair. And thanks for people really wanting flashy attacks (We're using the most strong moves Sephiroth has ever used as attacks, and that's why it's hard to make 'em look normal)

[lightning29]

I didn't mean for this to turn into a dispute i was just giving some ideas about the throws...
with the down-throw i didn't mean it was an explosion that did 1000 damage and hit everyone on the stage... i was talking about the volcano move that silent knew the name of..... but yeah that idea about dante riding the foe would be better anyway

[Albafika]

I didn't mean for this to turn into a dispute i was just giving some ideas about the throws...
with the down-throw i didn't mean it was an explosion that did 1000 damage and hit everyone on the stage... i was talking about the volcano move that silent knew the name of..... but yeah that idea about dante riding the foe would be better anyway

Relax, you had nothing to do with it, lighting. Some of the attacks you suggested sounded "off" for vBrawl standards, that's what I tried pointing out. (Specifically the uthrow to air attack), but, stating these flashy moves could give an idea to the PSA'ers for a mix between them or something they hadn't thought, so it's still a good feedback. I just over reacted.

[madkool]

I like the idea of flashy throws. It doesn't mean they have to deal a lot of damage. To be honest, most characters are pretty boring about how they throw. I'd like to see something new.

[PPXEXE]

Pretty awesome, can't wait to try the complete version.

[xZedkiel]

People have asked for so many ridiculous stuff to be implemented for Sephiroth in that thread, I don't even know where to begin. Like having Sephy do Heaven't Light "Up B" to follow up with the KO attack Dair.

Wait wait, you're calling my idea ridiculous? And you thought SDo0m was being insulting, how hypocritical. I'm insulted
It would've been a hard to land combination of attacks considering the start up lag on Hell's Gate, and if you think about it, it's not even flashy so this pertains nothing to the subject. You may say it's "flashy" but I say it's creative. Be as it may, it's still impossible to go from a freefalling special to a normal aerial so there was no point in bringing it up as an example.

[Albafika]

Wait wait, you're calling my idea ridiculous? And you thought SDo0m was being insulting, how hypocritical. I'm insulted
It would've been a hard to land combination of attacks considering the start up lag on Hell's Gate, and if you think about it, it's not even flashy so this pertains nothing to the subject. You may say it's "flashy" but I say it's creative. Be as it may, it's still impossible to go from a freefalling special to a normal aerial so there was no point in bringing it up as an example.

I just threw out an example, and sincerely, it sounded like a fun combo and I really didn't think you really meant it, I thought you mentioned it as a fun thing that'd look nice. I mentioned it here in the case that it was meant to be implemented, which you didn't mean to, from what I read back then. I really didn't mean to insult you, dude. D:

[xZedkiel]

I just threw out an example, and sincerely, it sounded like a fun combo and I really didn't think you really meant it, I thought you mentioned it as a fun thing that'd look nice. I mentioned it here in the case that it was meant to be implemented, which you didn't mean to, from what I read back then. I really didn't mean to insult you, dude. D:

I assumed that I would be able to hit with the base of the attack and if they weren't picked up fully, I could plant a Hell's Gate on 'em, but if Heaven's Light fully picked them up, then you can't really do it. Hence the difficulty of performing the Heaven to Hell would balance it. High Work = High Reward kind of thing.
I understand where you were coming from, but flashy doesn't mean overpowered, Ike's Final Smash with different graphics, animations, and varying weapons could be flashy without being overpowered. You could even have Dante perform Jackpot followed by Devil Must Die, and if the bullets did 2% each and the slashes did 3% each, it would total to about 2(6+6+6)+5+3(4)+5=58% damage and if the knockback is the same as Ike's when it lands it's not over powered, but extremely flashy.

[DivineOverlord]

Of course I do.  I look at the Sephiroth topic a lot.  I may not post there sure, but I'm still anxious for the project.  I just want an excellent Marth PSA and this Sephy by far has the best potential.  And whilst, yes of course his flashiness has been toned down, he is still very much a flashy character.  But that's the good thing about Sephiroth and the feedback that has been given.  He's remained flashy AND balanced.  Infact, the main imbalances were down to his old F Air and B Air amirite?

Looking it the suggestion again, I agree with you and apologize.  However, it's not impossible to make moves like this that still allow for balance and creativity.  It just takes the right execution.

Again, it's down to how the moves are properly executed.  That D Throw for example, would probably be based off his Volcano attack, which is just a quick, not that large burst on the ground.  Heck, it's AoE is about the size of Mario's B Throw (when he is swinging the foe around, there is a hitbox on the foe he is swinging), and it wouldn't need to last long at all.

Nailing the right balance between creativity and balance as well as giving the character enough depth to make them enjoyable to play whilst still being accessible is generally the consensus of making a good PSA.  All factors and suggestions should be taken into account, and then it's down to the PSAer to pool all these together and come up with the PSA.  

My man, you're overreacting here completely.  Every decent PSAer knows that feedback is probably a the most valuable kind of experience they can get, however they should also have a right to be able to make their own judgements.  You're acting as though I ignore what you say and am insulting you but that's not the case.  However, if I did come out as being insulting or undermining, I sincerely apologize.

ooh nice idea about swinging the foe. I think I've seen Dante doing that before.

I just threw out an example, and sincerely, it sounded like a fun combo and I really didn't think you really meant it, I thought you mentioned it as a fun thing that'd look nice. I mentioned it here in the case that it was meant to be implemented, which you didn't mean to, from what I read back then. I really didn't mean to insult you, dude. D:

Wait wait, you're calling my idea ridiculous? And you thought SDo0m was being insulting, how hypocritical. I'm insulted
It would've been a hard to land combination of attacks considering the start up lag on Hell's Gate, and if you think about it, it's not even flashy so this pertains nothing to the subject. You may say it's "flashy" but I say it's creative. Be as it may, it's still impossible to go from a freefalling special to a normal aerial so there was no point in bringing it up as an example.

hmm I didn't catch the insults happening after reading all the posts XD

[Albafika]

I assumed that I would be able to hit with the base of the attack and if they weren't picked up fully, I could plant a Hell's Gate on 'em, but if Heaven's Light fully picked them up, then you can't really do it. Hence the difficulty of performing the Heaven to Hell would balance it. High Work = High Reward kind of thing.
I understand where you were coming from, but flashy doesn't mean overpowered, Ike's Final Smash with different graphics, animations, and varying weapons could be flashy without being overpowered. You could even have Dante perform Jackpot followed by Devil Must Die, and if the bullets did 2% each and the slashes did 3% each, it would total to about 2(6+6+6)+5+3(4)+5=58% damage and if the knockback is the same as Ike's when it lands it's not over powered, but extremely flashy.

Very true, that's what I was wanting, too. If he was going for flashy, then, the total amount of damage should be as the one of a normal move for it not to be broken and look nice, that's the same thing (Technically) we're doing with Sephy, as I said above, we're using all of Sephiroth's strongest attacks in that PSA as normal attacks, which makes it a bit hard to balance AND keep it having a Sephiroth feeling.

I know Dante's a flashy character, that's why I loved the Down Smash and Fsmash, but I asuggested all the hits connected (For Dsmash, last one would never hit the ay it was i nthe BETA) so that in the end it does the same amount of damage as a normal smash, and keep the flashy look. The thing I dislike is, for example:

Someone suggested Sephiroth to have chargable tilts... What do you get from this?

Someone suggested that Sephy did a Kick Combo <_> or was it a Punching combo? (Alright, this one was just stupid, not for this topic)

There are a bunch other hilarious stuff that has been suggested to add by many users, it's really hilarious. XD I, for once, laughed when I read the kicking/punching combo. I think I used the term "flashy" the wrong way, I've yet to find the word I need to express what I mean. My apologies

Anyways, I really want to see a flashy Dante now, I loved how his Dsmash and Fsmash turned out, but, I really want, too, to have his flashy multi hitting attack do a total Damage % according to vBrawl's standards.

[DivineOverlord]

^ yup yup. Dante is the King of combos..next version update will have more combo potential.

[SmashClash]

I made the pose of this picture with Ike:

See:

Also, I started on vertexing him, DO:

Vote here if you want Demon Dante fast enough: http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=19096.0