Error 500 (bandwidth issues), users moving to other forums

[JBG]

It's simple: because I don't plan on removing huge chunks of the boards unless someone gives me EVIDENCE that it's going to be any bit useful. And not "for science" and/or because some users like to put the blame on the Family and Forum Games for every issue that comes up on this [censored] board.

It's called you get your god damn evidence from doing a frickin experiment like any good scientist. And look at the statistics? Isn't that evidence enough?

Seriously, just hide the god damn board for a week, and then un-hide it. Is it that much trouble? Or are you worried about all the [censored]ing you're going to get from the users who live for that board?

[SJS]

It's simple: because I don't plan on removing huge chunks of the boards unless someone gives me EVIDENCE that it's going to be any bit useful. And not "for science" and/or because some users like to put the blame on the Family and Forum Games for every issue that comes up on this [censored]ing board.

Evidence? Why it's been right there under you nose the whole time! I think you've seen the legendary forum games post chart enough times. Oh, and let's recall the whole off-topic post count removal. We've all seen the people that went from thousands to less than a hundred posts. It's common knowledge that forum games takes up a huge chunk of the forum, you said so yourself. I don't see why you're trying to cater towards the roleplayers over the hackers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a hacking forum?

[Miacis]

And what exactly does this have to do with bandwidth ?
The only thing to get less queries is to make people less active. There is absolutely no evidence that closing the Forum Games section will stop users from posting anywhere else on the boards. In fact, anyone with a little bit of common sense can see that it's completely absurd.

Actually, all of these posts, and all this activity was focused on Off-Topic before we created the Forum Games to separate games from topics. And the activity in Off-Topic dropped pretty low after we split it like that. Why ? Because people who were psoting in one place ... moved to another. Not really hard to understand, right ?

That's all the evidence I need to be sure that what I'm saying is right:
Closing a sub-board will not make people go out and work out. It will make them post elsewhere on the boards. Thus not saving any little bit of bandwidth. And restraining users to less boards. No positive point. One negative point. => Rejected.


Now, as I said, I'd appreciate it if you guys could stop trying to rush us. It's already difficult enough as it is. So as I said, we'll wait until Dantarion answers us. And if you don't like waiting, go post on LST in the mean time.

Tank you and good night.

[ピカノ]

And Picano, I can understand the hassle with Brawlvault, that to me seems like the only real thing "keeping" KCMM here. The topics, posts, awards, etc? Oh baww, cry me a river. People can start over, it's like moving out of a neighborhood to a new city.

We've done so once and it was a massive inconvenience to everyone. It took a while to build back up. (Not to mention issues with people stealing names and such...)

Perhaps we're integrating a little to much into the forums though. The awards system is a possible good example. They have one on Minus world and it's not causing problems, but they're not as large of a community.

That is a possibility.

Also, just a thought, but perhaps it's Brawlvault's deep integration into these forums that's causing the issue as well? Again, if we split the forums off of Brawlvault, we would most likely cut the traffic on the server in half, which would be diverted to the proboards server.

We... can't. Splitting the forum from Brawl Vault is a MASSIVE undertaking as it was hard coded into the forum itself. I've been asking for someone to help / take over coding for AGES. No one has / has been able to rise to that call.

And Miacis, how do you know this? Some people just come here FOR the forum games. Not gonna lie, when I'm on my breaks from hacking, it's the only thing that's kept me here until i decide to come back to hacking. You assume way too much.

And how do you know that it is? Casting blame without any sort of evidence is a shameful practice. Yes, that games for has tons of posts / activity. Is it a major source of trouble? Doubtful. The main strains on this server are: Wordpress (it's optimization is worse than Brawl Vautls!) and Brawl Vault (I had never dreamed it would be this popular)

Loading / posting the the forum page take at most 2 queries. 1 to load / post the forum data and 1 to load the user data for permissions.

Wordpress on the other hand... 1 to load content, 1 to load user data, 1 to load theme data, and 1 for each mod.

Brawl Vault... 1 to load user data (forum), 1 to load page data, 1 to load basic statistics, 5 to load statistics page.

Not to mention a couple queries for each download call... Brawl Vault sig...

[StarWaffle]

Well thanks for putting some serious consideration into all my posts >.>

I love it when i just get copy/pasta messages and brushed off to the side.
I was seriously concerned with your guyses problem and trying to help, and everyone just says "NO THAT WONT WORK"  Everyone from forum games are just gonna post elsewhere?

I doubt they'll be posting as much as they did in there...because well theres really no place they can spam without end, and I don't see them starting up a role playing game in someones random hacking thread.

Against my better judgement, I will still keep my word and donate $5 a month until i get my job in which case i can donate more. Why punish the community for the Stubbornness of the admins >.>

[JBG]

And what exactly does this have to do with bandwidth ?
The only thing to get less queries is to make people less active. There is absolutely no evidence that closing the Forum Games section will stop users from posting anywhere else on the boards. In fact, anyone with a little bit of common sense can see that it's completely absurd.

Actually, all of these posts, and all this activity was focused on Off-Topic before we created the Forum Games to separate games from topics. And the activity in Off-Topic dropped pretty low after we split it like that. Why ? Because people who were psoting in one place ... moved to another. Not really hard to understand, right ?

That's all the evidence I need to be sure that what I'm saying is right:
Closing a sub-board will not make people go out and work out. It will make them post elsewhere on the boards. Thus not saving any little bit of bandwidth. And restraining users to less boards. No positive point. One negative point. => Rejected.


Now, as I said, I'd appreciate it if you guys could stop trying to rush us. It's already difficult enough as it is. So as I said, we'll wait until Dantarion answers us. And if you don't like waiting, go post on LST in the mean time.

Tank you and good night.

It's people like you that make me wish I could put my hand through the internet and [censored] slap them to hopefully knock some sense into them. Yes, it may not stop them from posting anywhere else, but as SJS said, when the forum games and off topic posts were removed from post counts, people's post counts were DESTROYED and set back to fractions of what they once were.

The only reason that activity in the off topic dropped with the founding of the forum games section was because you CREATED another outlet for their psychotic whims, because apparently the Off topic was mostly being used FOR games. If you close the forum games board and prohibit the playing of games and Roleplays in the Off topic board, guess what? Those posts will be cut off and will cut down on a good number of queries. It's like the flow of water when you think about it. The Forum games is a fountain spouting tons and tons of water into the "bandwith pool." If you close off that fountain, the water, as you say, will then go to the off topic pool, and then from there to the bandwith pool again. But, what if you close off the path to the off topic pool from the forum games pool? The water in the forum games fountain has nowhere to go, thus forcing it's shutdown and will cut down on the amount of water being poured into the pool. Tell me I'm wrong there. I fricking dare you.

Picano, the main question is this, would switching servers be any less inconvenient, or having to pay for the server? Or what about these errors in general? If you ask me, I say they're the biggest inconvenience we can possibly have at the moment.

I see. If I knew how to code and such I would GLADLY help you out, since I have a decent amount of time on my hands. But I don't, so unfortunately, it seems you still remain the only one able to do so...sorry.

The brawlvault sigs...now THOSE could definately be a huge wrench in the works, eh? What if we took that feature out (again, I'm aware it may very well be a lot of coding), true, people may not like it, but really, they're rather pointless when you get right down to it. If people want this information, they can look at ther person's damn profile.

And about the blame game thing here, I'm playing the same game as Miacis, as it takes two to tango, and I couldn't BARE to see him without a dance partner.

[Miacis]

people's post counts were DESTROYED and set back to fractions of what they once were.

I'm talking about bandwidth. You're talking about post counts.

Picano just explained to you where the problem comes from. Read it before assuming that the two notions are the same thing.
I mean, please! This is just making the debate even more confuse.

Tell me I'm wrong there. I fricking dare you.

No, you're perfectly right. To sum it up in a few words : if we forbid users to do something they've been enjoying to do for one year now, they will stop doing it. That's the gist of it.

But that doesn't make it a good idea either. And as mentionned already, it's not going to do much good to our bandwidth either, so no.

Picano, the main question is this, would switching servers be any less inconvenient, or having to pay for the server? Or what about these errors in general? If you ask me, I say they're the biggest inconvenience we can possibly have at the moment.

Considering you have absolutely no idea of server costs, of how much and how we can pay new stuff, didn't witness how much of a pain in the ass it was when we changed servers, and all that crap ... sorry, but I'll wait until I get the opinion from our server hosts to make any move.

Neither you nor I know enough about that to take a sensible decision or emit a valuable judgement on what to do. So let's just stop [censored]ing at each other, okay ? This is not helping at all.

Everyone, we've heard your ideas, but right now, we still are trying to determine the best course of actions and what actions would beworth it, and which won't.
In the end, our goal is the same as yours : getting rid of these freagin' errors.

So please, can we all calm down and wait until e get some crucial info from Dant ?

[StarWaffle]

So to sum it up....   Role players, keep on keeping on!

Brawl hackers? go somewhere else =|


makes sense.

[Miacis]

Would you cut that crap ?

We're open to anyone and everyone here.

We are not going to kick out people out of here just because some people feel that hackers deserve a better treatment than any other users on the boards.

[ピカノ]

Considering you have absolutely no idea of server costs, of how much and how we can pay new stuff, didn't witness how much of a pain in the ass it was when we changed servers, and all that crap ... sorry, but I'll wait until I get the opinion from our server hosts to make any move.

Neither you nor I know enough about that to take a sensible decision or emit a valuable judgement on what to do.

This is the best way it can be put.

Marcov, Vyse, and I tried our hardest to ensure the community survived the BROKEN proboard forums, the REJECTION of free hosts, and the SHAMEFUL TAKEOVER PROSPECT. There are a lot of factors to consider here and... maybe our issue will just die out? I was fully expecting the surge of users to drop down thanks to school --- as it has every other year.

I will say this though... if there is a move, I will not be going. It has been a long time since I have been to this forum for pleasure; I have seen the worst aspects of both community and staff and have no motivation whatsoever to put my own time, effort, and worry into starting fresh once again.

So to sum it up....   Role players, keep on keeping on!

Brawl hackers? go somewhere else =|


makes sense.

Miacis has tried to be kind, sure he slipped up a bit with the stupid comment but...

If we did test your theory and it turned out NOT to be the issue; us staff will have taken on the backlash of many members (which... we have already, multiple times). That section of the forum has been a major headache for many reasons... but I do not believe removing it will fix the solution.

So, if all you are going to do is insult Miacis and throw around accusations that he is biased in favor of the role players... GET OFF MY FORUM.

[SJS]

I've never had a problem loading the BrawlVault. I've only received errors when using the forum. But it doesn't matter what we suggest. We're just lowly peasants with inferior intellect. We aren't worthy! Guess I should just get off your forum then. 

[StarWaffle]

Biased twards role playing? no not really.

I was kinda hopeing he was maybe... perhaps... just a little... biased twards Brawl mods... because well, isnt that what this forums/brawlvault is based off of?  

It's great that he thinks of them equally... but... come onnnnnnnnnn.

anyways, ciao! pm on LSTeam to let me know when you find out the actual details of upgrading/switching servers so i know when to donate.

[JBG]

that's what I heard in your post Mia.

Oh, but I just recalled. And I know you're going to hate me for referancing my old times on a different forum, but this is actually valuable input.

MFGG was experiencing similar problems on their forums, though I don't believe it was this extreme. So what they did was they disconnected the forums from the mainsite and called it "Minus World," leaving everything such as post counts, awards, etc in tact. They then made a new forum designed specifically for fangaming items and topics, and then used Mius World for their sitlly general discussion. The situations seem nearly identical to me. So, if it's possible, cut off the current forum from the main KCMM blog and hacking community and leave it for the roleplayers and gamers. Then make a new forum on a seperate host or something to the effect simply for brawl hacking, and connect that to Brawlvault, (Yes I know it's a lot of coding but we're running out of options). Roleplayers and not serious people get their forum, the hackers get theirs. Everyone wins, except possibly Pocano, who unfortunately would have to do the coding to reintegrate brawlvault, which I understand would be a pain and difficult....:c

[ピカノ]

I've never had a problem loading the BrawlVault. I've only received errors when using the forum. But it doesn't matter what we suggest. We're just lowly peasants with inferior intellect. We aren't worthy! Guess I should just get off your forum then. 

Frankly, if you really think that way... yes. If you aren't knowledgeable enough to fix my code, you aren't knowledgeable enough to fix the site and shouldn't harass the people who might be able to.

But, I'm not saying your opinions don't matter... I even said the exact opposite in my post. I just don't want a stupid flame war to start up from people who don't actually know how to fix things...

[JBG]

I've never had a problem loading the BrawlVault. I've only received errors when using the forum. But it doesn't matter what we suggest. We're just lowly peasants with inferior intellect. We aren't worthy! Guess I should just get off your forum then. 

Quoting for truth, actually. We're all doing our best to come up with possible ideas to cut down on the usage, even the slightest. And right now, Star, SJS, and I are all in agreement that the forum games could stand to go, but Miacis is being, frankly, a stubborn jackass (by that i mean mule) and refusing to even try our suggestion. The results may surprise you.