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Author Topic: Protector of time: AEON --- Completely new (04.2011)  (Read 77179 times)
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Miacis
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    « Reply #105 on: April 13, 2010, 02:15:38 PM »


    But at least it's not as bad as spamming with Cloud. After a few matches of people abusing his B moves (and the realization that there may never be a new version of him) I had to (regretfully) remove him from play.

    You shouldn't jump to conclusions so quickly. I'm playtesting his new version right now and you guys are going to loooooove it. Tongue (Epic totally new Up-Smash and Up-Special. Neutral-B Air really nerfed and placed to Down-B Air, Side Taunt fixed and EPIC. And many others.) We're trying to balance him out, so if you have any suggestions, don't hesitate.
    (But not here. Use the official Cloud topic or PM me or .Fade, who is in charge now. )

    Anyway, I tried the new NTSC version of Aeon. It plays quite smoothly, it's fun to use but there are plenty of things to improve.

    Let's check them in the order :
    AA Combo : It is quick, but it certainly won't change the outcome of the fight. I think this one should be kept.

    Side-Tilt : It definitely shouldn't hit in the air and behind. Keep the animation, but let the sword glow appear later, when the sword is at at 45° angle approximatively, and modify the hitboxes accordingly. Besides, the glow is disappearing too quickly, which makes the animation look sluggish.

    Down-Tilt : I have no idea why you put such an extremely short-ranged attack on a character that focuses on keeping the enemy very far from you. It basically makes the move to be never used. 2 things : first, make it have more range. Right now, the hitboxes don't even cover his feet ! XD Secondly, give it some purpose. Either make it much more powerful. Like ... Snake's Up-Tilt or something., or give it some reasonnably interesting purpose. Wind effect, temporary paralysis, trips once in a while, idk. Just give the player a reason to use this move.

    Up-Tilt : Good. Keep this one, but reduce the knockback : it's more than his Up-Smash.  Wink

    Dash attack : For once, you should extend a bit the range of this move. It's one of the the purposes of a dash attack to move away the opponent.

    Side-Smash : The charging thing is nice. Keep it like that.

    Side-Side-Smash : Looks : perfect. But add some damage and a little knockback, pleeease. T-T

    Up-Side-Smash : A Smash that can't even kill at 500% ? oÔ It's already not that easy to pull off, because :
    1) If it's not charged, then the enemy is at a very close range. If the enemy is at a very close range with Aeon, then there definitely is something wrong.
    2) If it's charged, the hit of the charging makes it a bit harder to land.
    3) Moveset hackers have to understand we won't use a alternative smash instinctively unless we have a very good reason to.

    I don't really know what to suggest, here ...  Undecided It definitely needs an increase in power and knockback. Smashes aren't meant to be combo starters like that IMHO. And the kick is not that great ... I suggest you to look at the Echo Blade movesets done by .Fade if you want better ideas. His alternate smashes were really good. Maybe you could simply try an attack that hits behind after a delay ? With the "spinning throwing trophy stand", couldn't you throw together something ?  Smiley

    Down-Side-Smash : Good looking, effective and all ... But add some knockback. Seriously. A smash that cannot kill at 300% is just ridiculous.

    Up-Smash : At the end of the attack, Aeon shouldn't come back to where he was at the beginning. It looks terrible. And the cursor on his head doesn't move, but Aeon does. This needs a fix. Except for that, it's good. Maybe 1-2 more damage and some knockback ? It's supposed to be his more powerful smash, isn't it ?

    Down-Smash : Remove about a third of the range. It's really too much. And reduce the knockback : it's more powerful than the Up-Smash.  Wink There's also a mistake in the hitboxes : this move doesn't hit the enemies that are in front of and close to Aeon.

    Neutral-Aerial : It's okay.

    Forward-Aerial : Ooooohhhh .... nice. Pretty looking, and inventive. Just be careful : during the second part of the move, there's one glow too many in the middle. And I think you should give a little more knockback to the second hit, and a bit less to the first one.  Smiley

    Back-Aerial : Good. A little more Knockback, perhaps ? ^^

    Up-Aerial : Good. Maybe reduce a bit the size of the lower hitboxes.

    Down-Aerial : Nice too. A bit unusual, but it's okay. For the animation when Aeon touches the groung while doing this, you should use the animation of Marth's AFA's landing.

    Neutral-B (Uncharged) : Too much range ! And the hitboxes don't match the glow when hitting behind. Cut the range in two, seriously. This is supposed to be a bit defensive, until you can get the charge. Finally, there's some trouble with the positioning. Just like the Up-Smash, he shouldn't go back to his initial position the way he does here. Just give him the same thing as for the Side-Tilt, maybe ? oÔ

    Neutral-B (Charge 1) : Shouldn't this move hit even when the enemy is close to you ?  Undecided Besides, the laser doesn't look very convincing. You should borrow the one from greeneggsandham's Neku.

    Neutral-B (Charge 2) : The attack is too short and quick ... I don't really know what to suggest, but you need to make something that doesn't disappear in a flash. besides, the move only hits once when an enemy is right in front of Aeon.

    Neutral-B (Charge 3) : The attack occurs too quickly. Wait for Aeon to finish is "throwing sword" bit of animation, then before he crosses his arms, the time stop happens. Remember this move  wasn't instantanate either in Castlevania. Reduce the size of the graphics and hitbox a bit. The graphics don't match the hitbox (graphics are too large).

    Side-B : Ugh ... The animation is okay and the green glow is a nice touch, but ... it's glitchy. Waaay too much. The part where he goes backward after hitting shouldn't exist at all. This little things makes him go back very quickly if your hitting the B-Button is fast enough. When he uses it near the edge of a platform, he flies past it (this shouldn't happen ...) , then teleports back to where he was. When using it in the air, the cursor doesn't follow him properly (it's beind Aeon). Finally, this is really broken as a recovery, and it gives him far too much air control. He should definitely fall into helpless mode after one aerial Side-B. And he's so fast, you should reduce the range of the aerial version by one third. And the range of the ground version by between one quarter and one third. Right now, this move gives far too much position control to Aeon (huge range should be enough control for him), and it's glitchy. If you want to fix only one move, fix this one.  Tongue

    Up-B : Mmhhh ... I think that since he's got three jumps to attack his opponent, an helpless state after using the third one would be a good idea. (Again, because he has too much position control) And on the other hand you should reduce the height of his Grounded Up-B jump. It's impratical for both the player and his opponent.

    Down-B : You should enlarge the area of effect of the counter itself. Besides, the does practically nothing against airborne opponent, so you should equilibrate it with a spike, as an example. (Besides, it would be so badass to counter an opponent into a spike and kill him. Tongue)

    Final Smash : It glitches and loops when used on the ground. And you should definitely look into FS glow issue. Using more FS during the fight adds more glows, and thus reduces bit by bit the number of effects that the game can display.

    Taunts : Unchanged.  :'(

    Grabs : Unchanged, I suppose ?

    Very last issue and I'll stop tormenting you : When doing a "reverse side dodge" (if he faces right, and does a right dodge), his animation should be facing the other side. Right now, it just looks weird.  Tongue

    I ... guess that's it. Thanks for your attention. And good luck with the improvements.  Wink


    « Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 02:17:11 PM by Miacis » Logged

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    « Reply #106 on: April 13, 2010, 02:19:36 PM »


    We go off topic but these are EXCELLENT news! Smiley
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    « Reply #107 on: April 13, 2010, 02:50:03 PM »


    That's nice. I was aaiting for such a feedback.
    some things I have to mention:

    Smashes:
    I won't change Side Smash Up. It should surprise the enemy. Smashes may be used for combos. If you want a strong one use Side Smash Side.
    Other side Smashes will be changed.

    I can change Up Smash animation if you want.
    Why changing down Smash? I think the animation before the hitboxes appear is slow enough to make it a fair attack but I'll think of it.

    I noticed the Down Tilt problem.
    Side Tilt wouldn't be a plroblem for me but I'll see what I can do.

    Neutral Special:
    1: I'll make it smaler and stronger.
    2: It will hit right in front of Aeon.
    3: This attack is a problem because I don't know what to do with it.
    4: Size will not be changed. In Castlecania it's even biger. I'll slow it down.

    Side Special: I don't like falling vulnerable but I have to make it fairer. Slowing down is no problem for me.

    Up Special: On ground I'll make the first one not that big but as I saied I don't like falling vulnerable.

    Down Special: Will be changed.

    Taunts: I'll think of nice animations. They are not changed because I wanted to make a release.

    Grabs: I hate them because the throw collisions have no named parameters but if you want I can make them different.

    Final Smash: I know. Some problems in NTSC version. Don't worry. No problem for me.


    Thank you verry much for your good feedback and interest in Aeon. It's a little problem for me to make "ordinary" characters (strong final smashes and such things) but this time I'll force myself to do it.

    Do you need me for Cloud (feedback and such things)? If I should help somehow please PM me. If not I'll go on leaving everything to you.
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    Miacis
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    « Reply #108 on: April 13, 2010, 03:52:20 PM »


    About the Up-Side-Smash : It's your choice, I respect it. But I still believe there are more effective ways to surprise than using a kick. Tongue

    U-Smash : If you find something better, go ahead (but please, not the same as Ike-Aeon's one T-T). Just something without the glitchy positionning.

    Quote
    Why changing down Smash? I think the animation before the hitboxes appear is slow enough to make it a fair attack but I'll think of it.
    Because I'm not the only one to say that some moves have too much range. Tongue Remember that even with its range shortened, it attacks on both sides at the same time with a range that is not matched by anybody to my knowledge. (And come on, it's not THAT slow. :p)

    Quote
    4: Size will not be changed. In Castlecania it's even biger. I'll slow it down.
    Just don't forget to make the graphics fit correctly with the hitboxes. You should make the graphics so that the hitbox's limit either is on the inner or the outside circle. Right now, it's between the two.

    Quote
    Side Special: I don't like falling vulnerable but I have to make it fairer. Slowing down is no problem for me.
    Slowing down isn't the biggest priority IMO. Fixing the glitches and reducing a bit the range are.  Wink

    Quote
    Grabs: I hate them because the throw collisions have no named parameters but if you want I can make them different.
    No, it's not that important. I was just asking in case I hadn't seen the changes.  Smiley


    Quote
    Do you need me for Cloud (feedback and such things)? If I should help somehow please PM me. If not I'll go on leaving everything to you.
    Mmmhhh ... I don't really know. You can ask .Fade, but it seems he's got everything well at hand with the creative stuff. And we were three to give some feedback.
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    « Reply #109 on: April 13, 2010, 10:18:42 PM »


    Please take Miacis' suggestions into account, ESPECIALLY the freefall. I took Aeon out; replaced him with Assassin Marth. If you can provide changes that allow him to flow better, attack fairer (the range game is ridiculously abusive), and not be so field dominant, I'll be more than happy to play alongside, as, and against Aeon. But for now, he's just too glitchy and unfair.

    There were a lot of issues and I found it easier to just trash him than respond, so I'm sorry for that... I'm also glad Miacis hit the majority of my points. If you can make the necessary changes to try to balance him out, I'll give him another shot and give you my assessment.
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    « Reply #110 on: April 14, 2010, 12:52:53 AM »


    i just spent the last two hours playing with aeon and its awesome! i really like it. But yeah, make some changes to the stuff suggested above and it should be perfect. Any way you can make the side special be used only once in the air? like ike. because i notice u can practically glide across FD and back and that seems a like a broken way to camp or recover =/

    i couldnt help myself and took some picture :p
    lol Simon doesnt stand a chance. btw, when i play computer marths, for some reason when they use the side b they glide backwards. and they really seem to be good with the psa because alucard was kicking my ass.
    « Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 12:54:43 AM by wii » Logged


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    « Reply #111 on: April 14, 2010, 06:51:30 AM »


    btw, when i play computer marths, for some reason when they use the side b they glide backwards. and they really seem to be good with the psa because alucard was kicking my ass.
    They do this with the side-B because they try to use Dancing Blade. And I noticed that the CPUs always spend the least time necessary when they "press a button". That means they press B for a microsecond. OHowever, the quicker you press B on Aeon's Side-B, the farther back you travel. Try using it in Slow-Mo mode and you'll understand what I mean. Wink

    About the fact they are good with PSAs, it seems CPUs tend to copy the style you use with/against a character, after a short while. Except for specials/recovery (their "learning curve" is muuuuch slower with these moves). So they tend to adopt a more natural style quickly.  Smiley
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    « Reply #112 on: April 14, 2010, 07:04:21 AM »


    Changing the AI assigned to them helps alleviate the slow learning curve. Depending on which AI you give them.
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    « Reply #113 on: April 14, 2010, 12:46:12 PM »


    (I just noticed someone ate dingo's berries)
    I love their learning curve. I've been trying to tell a friend of mine that they do, in fact, adapt to the playstyle of the user, but he said "noooooo." By the way, have any of you seen a CPU Snake use the snakeslide?
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    « Reply #114 on: April 17, 2010, 10:48:55 PM »


    Wow... Im gonna use the Marth one... He looks so fun.
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    « Reply #115 on: April 24, 2010, 09:19:51 AM »


     I find the Marth version's final smash glitches occaisonally, causing him to endlessly repeat his ending taunt during an invincible like status, forcing you to end the match =/ doesn't happen all the time though... But besides that I love it XD awesome moveset
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    « Reply #116 on: April 26, 2010, 02:34:02 PM »


    I find the Marth version's final smash glitches occaisonally, causing him to endlessly repeat his ending taunt during an invincible like status, forcing you to end the match =/ doesn't happen all the time though... But besides that I love it XD awesome moveset

    it happens when u do it on the ground. all u got to do is do it while jumping and it wont glitch.
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    « Reply #117 on: April 30, 2010, 09:47:35 AM »


    I'm working on improvements.
    If it's too glichy use PAL. It works fine.
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    « Reply #118 on: September 15, 2010, 12:11:06 PM »


    News:
    I've started to work on Aeon some days ago.
    Some of his animations are closer to the original.
    The blade is no Sword Glow Blade but the real Aeon blade (nearly).
    Side B is finally fixed. It's no infinite rescue attack and has not that huge reaching.
    Most animations are still Marth's original animations because they are really good. I've only changed some details.
    Of course Aeon does not have a sheith any more.
    Playing physics have changed a little. He's not that fast now.

    I hope I can make a good Neutral B animation (for each move) until weekend.
    Then I'll release a new version.
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    « Reply #119 on: September 16, 2010, 04:10:36 PM »


    A very impressive and highly satisfying character.
    It's a shame I never played Castlevania much, this character seems pretty neat.
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