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Author Topic: Fixing Differing Face Normals.  (Read 3476 times)
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Jocky
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    « Reply #15 on: February 07, 2012, 09:47:19 PM »


    Alright, details then.

    1. Everything was already there.
    2. I got rid of the old Head and  mouth pieces.
    3. Re-imported the defaults via merge.
    4. Selected those two objects, then hid unselected.
    5. Added the edit normals modifier to both
    6. Selected the normals going in the "same direction"
        (The outer ring of the mouth polygon where it's supposed to blend in)
    7. Averaged the two polygon's normals.
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    Spex130
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    « Reply #16 on: February 07, 2012, 10:13:10 PM »



    6. Selected the normals going in the "same direction"
        (The outer ring of the mouth polygon where it's supposed to blend in)
    7. Averaged the two polygon's normals.


    Ahaa~!

    I don't think I was clear enough on this part. Sorry about that.

    Don't select the entire ring all at once. When something is averaged, it all points in the same direction. Such a large amount of normals being averaged will take away their individuality, causing the "reflective tape" effect.

    Do it like this. First click both the models and add an "Editable Mesh/Editable Poly" modifier, then go to the vertex button. Look at the vertices for both the face and the mouth at the same time. For TLink, if you hold and drag a selection box over one of the vertices in the boundary, you'll select not one but two vertices.

    What this means is that the modeler shaped TLink's head as one object, and then used "Detach" or something like that to rip out the faces. This means that the vertices there match up perfectly but aren't connected, therefore proving the need for two in one spot so you can't see any holes. Unfortunately, the normal for the mouth vertex goes in a different direction than the normal for the head vertex in the same spot, which is why they don't match up and look so bad.

    What you're doing with "average," is selecting all the normals which connect to the "spot" where those two boundary vertices meet. When you average them, the conflicting normals between the two vertices in that "spot" for those two vertices get forced to all point at the same angle. And since all the vertices' normals are at the same angle (essentially the same normal), there's no distinction between the polygons even though they aren't connected.)





    You see how at the top I've got only two normals selected?

    I press the average button and then they become "one." That's what we're doing.

    When you find a "pair of vertices" you need to average the normals of only those vertices.

    After that, you need to average the normals for every pair of vertices individually until you're done.

    I hope that's more clear for you. I'll edit the OP Tutorial.

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    Jocky
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    « Reply #17 on: February 07, 2012, 10:45:06 PM »


    You're right, it worked!
    I guess something like that should have raised the red flags to my common sense earlier but eh..
    Anyways thanks a bunch Spex, now I know what do next time this happens.
    Time to get cracking on that TLink.
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    Mewtwo2000
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    « Reply #18 on: February 15, 2012, 11:32:07 AM »


    Nice tutorial, I didn't see it.

    I do something similar, only that I hit 'copy value' and 'paste value'. That way I can choose which of the selected normals I keep for both vertices.

    Does the average make a 'mean' of the selected directions or something? Cause I've never tried it... O.o
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    Spex130
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    « Reply #19 on: February 15, 2012, 01:30:05 PM »


    Nice tutorial, I didn't see it.

    I do something similar, only that I hit 'copy value' and 'paste value'. That way I can choose which of the selected normals I keep for both vertices.

    Does the average make a 'mean' of the selected directions or something? Cause I've never tried it... O.o

    That's really cool. I didn't know there was a copy value.

    Anyways, I think that's how it works. I guess averaging pulls all the normals to the "average" location between all of them. Your way sounds good too, though.
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    Mewtwo2000
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    « Reply #20 on: February 15, 2012, 02:43:39 PM »


    Heh, I'm sure the 'average' thing is faster and better, cause the 'copy value' just copies one of them, and you have to select by normal in order to do it, while the 'average' will let you select by vertex, and takes the average value. I didn't know the meaning of 'average' as 'mean', I knew is as 'regular'. This is what happens when you don't speak english as the mother language, and do not know the meaning of some specific words ^^U xD
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    Xiggah
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    « Reply #21 on: February 15, 2012, 04:10:21 PM »


    You know, if there was a way to select all the vertices in the same location, then I could write a Maxscript to auto-average all of the normals for me.

    But if I'm going to be making a program to make it easier, then it should be writing Brawlbox to export the normals in the .DAE export. They hold normals don't they?
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    Spex130
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    « Reply #22 on: February 15, 2012, 08:37:34 PM »


    You should study how MAX uses soft selection. There might be a technique similar to that.
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    Xiggah
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    « Reply #23 on: February 15, 2012, 11:46:08 PM »


    I just looked at soft selection: It only works with one model at a time. And Edit Normals doesn't allow for soft selection. It's possible to write a Maxscript to do it and imitate the soft selection, but I don't think it's worth the effort.
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    Spex130
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    « Reply #24 on: February 15, 2012, 11:52:41 PM »


    This type of stuff is kinda tedious, but it's nothing that can't be done manually. Don't stretch yourself.
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    Xiggah
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    « Reply #25 on: February 16, 2012, 12:08:58 AM »


    Yeah, I probably won't. Although I have been editing my handy maxscript to take care of a lot of tedious work for me, such as selecting all the bones or polygons and exporting animations. Not sure what else I should automate.
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