Avatar Ness V1.4 (Sample of next PSA on Pg. 8)

[spiderjjr45]

Oh, hey Kirbs.

http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=3244.0

I don't know if you've realized yet, but it would probably be best to use my newer, fixed Aang texture for the Airbending one. I supposed the brim can stay on the fire bending though.

[kirbys246]

oh thanks! You make awesome textures!

[kirbys246]

Bump for new update.

[joem3693]

nice!

[nnettobr]

Nice job.

Avatar Ness is the best PSA I've seen so far. And I've looked almost everyone in this forum.

And after testing, something still bugs me.

Look, this Avatar Ness is truly a master of four elements. But not the Aang's way. This PSA has great atacks, but few combos.

What I am trying to say is (my English is bad, sorry.........=/):
If you read my list of possibles changes, and used it somehow, I would be very thankful.


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Tilts attacks:
They are very strong indeed. And Up-tilt is funny, and somehow useful, and a bit slow. Forward-tilt is too strong (o.O), but slow (okay, that is fair). Down-tilt is cool and slow. See? All the tilts attacks are slow. They are very cool, I have to say. Forward-tilt should be a Smash Attack (by the way, it's very better than Smash-forward)

Smash attacks:
The new 1.2 (i've not tested the 1.3 version, but I belive that my opinion won't change) has a cool Up-Smash and a Down-Smash. The up-smash bugs me because is too Lucas. But it isn't a problem. Foward-Smash, as I've said before, is too generic, and it would be much better as an "Aquatic Whip".

Air Attacks:
Only Air-Forward bugs me. But is because I have been too frustrated of trying to go forward and go backward... (=/). But I dont think you have to change it.

Specials Attacks:
Neutral:
Too useless. It's cool the idea, but do a few damage, no knockback. I think that Neutral B should be his "killer special", not Down-B. The Lighting Bend is so cool (and pretty deadly in Avatar) to be just another move.

Forward:
VERY COOL, but a little overpowered. Cause it's almost a perfect barrier. The AI don't understand the move (obviously) and most of the players too. For me, it could be unchanged.

Up:
The 1.1 version was better than 1.2, and anyway I don't like it. Avatar is more a flexible guy (Aang, not a generic Avatar)  than a though one. So I suggest to change it to a move like UP-Special of Lucario. A mobility move....

Down:
Cool, very cool, but unnecessary. The last charge is too powerful. If I can suggest, it could do no damage, but only a air push. It could be more Aang like.

Air-Down Special:
Okay, this is OVERPOWERED. I tested, and each hit do about 18% of damage. And you can just jump, use it, and jump, and use it.... With almost none knockback, your adversary should not notice his high percentage after sometime. I really don't have anythin in mind (right now) to make a change, but that move HAS to change (or have a balance).

The back-throw attack is fun: When i used it against a Fox (can happen to more chars other than him, but the others i've fought are alright) , he just hit the explosion, and bounce, being launched to oposite direction (the forward, initially). I don't know if this is a miscalculation of the PSA, but is funny, and should remain that way... xD

THE VERY LIST:
I will summarize the  changes that I think should be made (in order to the first post):
The attacks with a triple dash (---) are attacks that I don't think that should be changed after all.

Neutral A air (Palms of Fire): ---
Forward A air (Palms of Wind): ---
Back A air (Ice Kick):---
Down A air (Fire Kick):---
Up A air (Flip Kick):--- (all changes to Air A attacks were made already)

Tilt attacks:
Neutral (Ness original): JUST NOT CHANGE, or make it more Marcial Arts, if you can. DON'T put a element on it.
Forward (Water Bending): Put a normal attack on this one. Aang is Martial artist after all, so not every move should be a bending. The Ness Forward won't be cool. If you can made a Martial Art Attack, do it. It would be very nice, and a fast attack, pleeeeeeease.
Up (Air Bending): ---
Down (Earth Bending): Cool, but more a Special B attack than a Tilt A attack. I don't think it should change.

Smash Forward (Fire Wave): Just put the "Water Bending" here. It would be much more consistent.
Smash UP (Eruption): I just don't like it. But it "fit's" a earthbender's stile, so...
Smash Down (Fireball): It's cool. I have to say that it's very much better than Fireball Yo-yo of previous versions.

Neutral B (Electricity bending): It have to much more fast, do more damage, and have a better knockback, and could have a minor area of effect. Much more a B from ROB. But it's up to you. The only thing that bothers me is: THIS MOVE IS ALMOST USELESS HOW IT IS. You can change his damage OR knockback OR anyway you want. BUT DO A CHANGE, PLEASE!!!! This move is so cool to not be used in battle....=)
Forward B (Air Wall): It's powerful. It could be less effective (if it's possible) with time.
Down B (Air Burst/Saw/Blast): Air Burst is a tactical one. Air Saw is good to damage. Air Blast is INSANE. The knockback is very high. And you use it from a considerable distance, so you probably kill two guys that are fight each other. =/. My suggestions: Do less damage and less knockback OR do just a "Push" knockback (You understand me with this one? =/)
Down B AIR (Eagle Strike): Balance it somehow, or just remove it, or change to something else. Because it's a extremely good attack. And that is a problem. Something has come to my mind at this moment: if you remove the spike propriety from Down A Air (Fire Kick), you could transform this attack in a Air Spike Bending, (A Air Burst from DOWN B GROUND, just below Ness feet). It will be useful, (very useful), but balanced.
Up B (Water Kick): The other version was better, cause this don't save Ness. I know that Forward B in Air extends the Ness jumps, but this was mean to save the char, after all. So I suggest to put a move like Lucario UP+B, doing NO damage, but with a Air dislocation (Aang's speciality after all is AIR).

Final Smash: Before, it almost kills no one. Now, it kills everyone. And I don't know what you could do... But I have to say that this Final Smash is the better (so far i've seen). And it would be a shame if this move is not balanced.... If you can do something about it, just do.

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This is my first post here in KC (but I enter this forum from very very long time, it was not in this server....), and probably it will be my last (a response is possible). I just create an account to post this BIG post here, 'cause I wanted to help this magnificent work. When I like something, I want the better. And I liked so much Ness Avatar (I like Ness AND Avatar xD) that I feel in the obligation to help somehow.

My changelist is based on the fact that the Avatar you targeted was Aang. If was not, half of this list won't be probably necessary. But if was, my biggest suggestion is: make the Ness Avatar more Martial Artist (moving the Water Bending to Forward Smash, and putting some move here would be sufficient, I think).

I really liked your project. Don't misunderstand me. So, please, continue your awesome work. =)

 

[kirbys246]

Thanks im glad you like it .

I agree with lots of the things youve said and put some thought into it.

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Tilt Attacks: Im sorry but Im probably going to keep water bending as the tilt forward for conveniance. You have water-earth-wind as the tilts, and fire bending as the smashes. It fits together.

Smash Attacks: The problem with the water whip idea is the limitations and my knowledge of PSA. Dont get me wrong that Idea is way better and if I had to choose between the two it would definatelly be the water whip. The idea of how it would look is in my head, I just cant make it reality do to limitations. My problem with the Up-Smash is that im running out of ideas. If you have an idea please post .

Air Attacks: I understand how it bugs you, it bugs me too. Im thinking of increasing its knockback while increasing its recoil. That way it would be more useful yet fair. If a new idea from someone or myself is better, I will change.

Special Attacks:
Neutral: This move is only useless if you forget that its available. If you use it correctly, you can hit up to 40%. Ive KOed enemies with this move. Its like mario's final smash. It pushes them off the stage and sometimes past the death boundary (KO). You can combo this with a fully charged down-B.

Forward: I dont know what to say about this one. It is the perfect barrier which means its kind of broken but it fits in so well. Its very useful for recovery too. I just dont know.

Up: Again, do to my knowledge of PSA I do not know how to make a move like lucarios where you can determine which direction to move. I changed it because the old Up-B was too simple. The new one can meteor smash which with enough practice, can be a very useful and necessery move. I could increase how high you go but not by much.

Down: You know thats not a bad idea. It is an air bending move after all. It would make sense if it only pushed them away.

Air-Down Special. I couldnt agree with you more. I always wanted this to be changed but my only issue was the lack of ideas. Your idea of using air burst in it would make much more sense since on the ground he also uses it. I might use this idea, its genius.

Back-Throw. This is a glitch I need to fix. Just dont hold the opposite direction your supposed to throw the opponent and he should throw him in the right direction. But this glitch is useful becuase your opponent doesnt know where he will be thrown .

Final Smash: There has been much debate on this topic. It would make total sense if he went into his Avatar state. My only problem is that this would be time-consuming. Remaking each move into a more powerful version would take quite a while. But I might make an update just for this.

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You put much thought into my PSA and I greatly appreciate this. There are some things I wouldnt notice that people like you would. Thats why I say to please post anything you want fixing on. Thanks a bunch.

You might see your ideas in the next update. Ive been thinking about martial art-like moves for awhile. Im planning on making neutral-A a huge combo attack and the dash attack a non bending move.

Another thing I thought of when you mentioned more martial arts was making a HUGE update (V2.0) by making only his B-moves and mabye his smash attacks the only ones that use bending. I feel as though im expressing his bending abilities a little too much and not enough fast martial-art attacks.

[nnettobr]

"Tilt Attacks: Im sorry but Im probably going to keep water bending as the tilt forward for conveniance. You have water-earth-wind as the tilts, and fire bending as the smashes. It fits together."

I've found out the pattern, and I understand it. A pattern is good. It limits you a lot, but it's cool. If you like that way, I have no objections after all.

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"Forward: I dont know what to say about this one. It is the perfect barrier which means its kind of broken but it fits in so well. Its very useful for recovery too. I just dont know."

As I've suggested (and if is possible to you make) put some limit on it. Like the wall can be activated by three seconds or something like that. The move is very cool, a little broken, but cool. If it had some limit, it would be more balanced.

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"Down: You know thats not a bad idea. It is an air bending move after all. It would make sense if it only pushed them away."

I totally agree with you. I was just TRYING to say (again, my english is baaad... =/) that the last charge could PUSH, not LAUNCH the targets. Just like the Typhoon Smash. Or maybe it can launch the enemies away, but it could has a slow progression of knockback (you know... more the %, more launched way you go). Or (something just come to me right now) it could launch the targets Upwards. Look, Aang LOVES to send the opponents into the air. Not forwards, but UPwards... =). That way, the special would be less deadly, but make possible to combo... =)

 

"Neutral: This move is only useless if you forget that its available. If you use it correctly, you can hit up to 40%. Ive KOed enemies with this move. Its like mario's final smash. It pushes them off the stage and sometimes past the death boundary (KO). You can combo this with a fully charged down-B."

I was not happy with my statement (sorry... a brazilian way to say....). The special CAN be useful, but it should be the most deadly special of Avatar Ness. I was calling it useless because DOWN + B was much more useful them this. =).

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"Air-Down Special. I couldnt agree with you more. I always wanted this to be changed but my only issue was the lack of ideas. Your idea of using air burst in it would make much more sense since on the ground he also uses it. I might use this idea, its genius."

Really grateful. But it only be "cool" if the DOWN + A Air do not spike anymore. Cause two similar spikes do not feels right =/


"Back-Throw. This is a glitch I need to fix. Just dont hold the opposite direction your supposed to throw the opponent and he should throw him in the right direction. But this glitch is useful becuase your opponent doesnt know where he will be thrown ."

I've just found to be a glitch, but a very cool one =)

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I don't have anymore time... AHR!
Sorry.
And definitely I will look for your adjustments...

Bye!




EDIT: Well... Now I've tested 1.3 version.
The changes were good.

I don't know anything about PSA hacks, but I know about programming.
If the information for the moves are interpreted, not compiled, you can retrive the "lucario's B+UP" easy, cause it's just open his info, and do a copy paste. However, as I stated above, I don't know about PSA so I really don't know how this will affect Ness.

For the Smash UP: It will be veeery dificult to find somethin interesting here, mostly because you are using the pattern (SMASHS = Fire bending / TILTS = All other).  It's really a troublesome problem. Maybe it could be just another fireball, with another movement, or maybe it could be TWO fireballs... Anyway this is not very original....  . If you break the pattern, the forward smash could be the original Water Bending, and a UP smash could be something with wind (but not the tilt up). And actually, I really don't see the UP smash as fire bending, but as being a earth bending.  

If I have a cool ideal about a fire attack, I will post here....





EDIT 2: Testing I've found two things (glitchs probably):
1. When using a screw attack, the second jump is INCREDIBLY long. It almost remembers of Link Super Jump in Melee (it was in melee, right?)
2. When you use the shield, it just appears almost below your feet. But when you "move" the shield, it goes to the right place....
I really hope that i helped



EDIT 3: Okay, now it's been four hours that my tests with Ness Avatar begun.
The Forward + B is a launching machine o.O. It can throw static barrels and crates at extremely great speed.
And this moves was bugging me, as I've said before... so something come to my mind. If the Air Wall could be a Air Deflection?
The move is very cool, and must not be dropped, so if you change it somehow, it could be useful as it is, and less  unbalanced. The "type" of this wall is something like a "Fox's Reflector", you just hold the button, and the move will to be hold. But if B+Forward was something like "Mario's Cape", that has a timing to use, it would be more balanced. The "Air Wall" would be the same

[kirbys246]

Ok im going to spill the beans...I havent attempted this yet and im not sure if this will work but picture this.

Down-B Air:
Air Burst: Same but it appears below him just like you said
Air Saw: Appears below him and ness has a slightly slower descent
Air Blast: Appears below him and blasts him up like warios fart. Also like warios fart, he can die if hes too close to the upper death boundary. When the move is executed, he will be in his harmless falling position or mabye the same falling position as sonic is when he uses his B-Up.
And after each "ding" he stops falling like when you use PSI-Magnet in the air.

Up-Smash: I will use a fireball.

Dash-Attack: He jumps into the air and spins till you press a again and he will do a kick.

Neutral-A: I do not know.

Neutral-B: I do not know.

[kirbys246]

Bump for new update on V1.4

[ADJSonic]

How about changing the ariel down B (3rd) to the Up B.
Then for his Down B air make it were he shoots a downward diagnal Fireball.
Then Normal B a version of the ariel down B but going forward but like Snakes over B you can control its movement.Press B = End

[Lockstin]

this is awesome! keep it up! 

[nnettobr]

Okay, after some tests.

I will follow the changelist:


Up-Smash completely changed That is an awesome move. It feels like overpowered cause it hit so many times. And actually is just a good move.

Dash Attack completely changed Again, it is awesome. If it will be changed, just make it like a 2 hit (2 midair kicks). But I like the way it is now.

Waiting Animation changed It was inevitable. And I am happy the first attempt to change it was a very good one.

Guard Graphic glitch fixed Really, I was just thinking it was with me.

Forward-A Air changed (I know the old one fitted in so well but it was kind of useless) That is true. My suggestion before was to put that move in B+Forward. It would reflect projectiles but it would not be a Almight Wall. Again, it's up to you.

Back-Throw Glitch fixed Agains Fox, at least, no. But's funny to see Fox bounce at fire.

Back-Throw and Forward-Throw graphics added I don't notice any change... but my TV is small, so forgive me.

Down-Air Special completely changed Okay. Now Down Air Special is very cool and resembles the ground one. I just think that the Air Burst (the first one) is laggy, or laggier than Down Air + A. And I could not Meteor Smash no one with this attack, just spike.

Forward Special push knockback decreased for balance I like this balance attempt.

Jump Animations changed I totally approved that one.


And if I can ask you, could you put my name somewhere in the first post. Just as a little memo. I know I was no great help after all, but if any idea I said here was useful, I just wanted some very little credit for that. It would mean a lot for me   

[kirbys246]

Sure totally! How selfish of me!

[kirbys246]

this is awesome! keep it up! 

Ill try XD

[Lord_of_D:]

hey, very good job,  but the side attacks are more powerful what the smash attacks, i think what you should change them