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Author Topic: BrawlVault: Feedback and Updates  (Read 544277 times)
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TokoyamiTheDark
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    « Reply #645 on: February 01, 2016, 06:45:30 PM »


    Not to be rude or anything, but ALL of the mods on Brawl, even if you made it, is copyrighted by Nintendo, NOT YOU. All model importers are STEALING copyrighted content from Nintendo, be it models or SSBB bone trees. It's like the ones who says "do not use without permission" about their hacks... but I highly DOUBT they got permission from Nintendo to use THEIR models. Isn't it moronic when someone steals from Nintendo or such companies, then warns other people to NOT steal it!?? Jeez, no wonder why the Project M team got a Cease & Desist letter from Nintendo... should I even mention they did the same for the authors of SMBZ?

    ...so basically, we could say I stole that Diancie model from Nintendo because I did not asked for permission to use it... and it is the same for ALL model imports or edits. In other words, I agree with the BV rules.
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    I lost EVERYTHING from my DropBox storage due to the server crashing, so I no longer have my hacks on the Vault... Sorry! Sad

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    « Reply #646 on: February 01, 2016, 07:19:29 PM »


    I bet that 1-2 years from now(or maybe just a few months), the same thing will be happening when modders get their hands on Smash 4.
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    « Reply #647 on: February 01, 2016, 07:34:38 PM »


    Not to be rude or anything, but ALL of the mods on Brawl, even if you made it, is copyrighted by Nintendo, NOT YOU. All model importers are STEALING copyrighted content from Nintendo, be it models or SSBB bone trees. It's like the ones who says "do not use without permission" about their hacks... but I highly DOUBT they got permission from Nintendo to use THEIR models. Isn't it moronic when someone steals from Nintendo or such companies, then warns other people to NOT steal it!?? Jeez, no wonder why the Project M team got a Cease & Desist letter from Nintendo... should I even mention they did the same for the authors of SMBZ?

    ...so basically, we could say I stole that Diancie model from Nintendo because I did not asked for permission to use it... and it is the same for ALL model imports or edits. In other words, I agree with the BV rules.
    Some of the models were made from scratch and didn't use any Nintendo assets until they were imported into the game.

    Its the fact that we spent many many hours working on these projects, and we want to officially release them ourselves, and not by some random person who came across the files.

    Its more of an issue of morals and respect for the artists.
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    windhunter7
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    « Reply #648 on: February 01, 2016, 08:01:02 PM »


    I agree with Nano. Also, did it not say when loading Project M, something along the lines of,"Legal under use of the GPL(General Public License)"?

    Not to mention that both Brawl and an NTSC Wii are REQUIRED for Project M to work(Other than Dolphin, but you literally need both the disc and Wii to create the iso, since it's not anywhere online, I don't think; I've checked like 20-30 various Rom/Iso sites, all of which had lots and lots, even Melee, but no Brawl), and the EXACT SAME is the case for any other mod.

    In fact, that's what these "hacks" on Brawl Vault are, are mods. If you wanted the 3D model, you could easily just download it from something like the Models Resource, and that's the same thing you'd get from BrawlBox. It's really no different than Google-searching "Mario" and downloading a picture of Mario. You can use it for a picture, but you won't be able to play with Mario, because it's just a picture. Same way with any Brawl model or any import at all. They just sit there as "images", which a 3D model is(A 3D model is literally a 3D image), not doing anything. You need BOTH the disc AND a Wii to play with ANY Brawl mods. Probably why linking to the ISO on here is specifically not allowed.

    Also, FYI, the PMDT never actually did get a C&D; they were just preventing a lawsuit. Not to mention that Nintendo has known about P:M for some time and never even shut it down. I know, because they ban you on Miiverse if you say "PM".(Despite the irony of that one of Nintendo's Dev Teams was called "PM"; I believe it was Metroid, if I remember correctly?) So Nintendo could have done something, but never did. Why? Because Project M never actually competed with Nintendo, UNTIL 3.61. In fact, the PMDT had a lawyer work for them, who does video game cases for a living, and he only had them do that because it was developing into competition with Sm4sh.

    I was in a really long talk in another thread on this, so please just check your facts before you say that this is "stealing". This really only has to do with morals and respect, like Nano said.

    Post Merge: February 01, 2016, 08:13:07 PM
    Found the thread that I was talking about.
    http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=75455.msg1349936#msg1349936
    « Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 08:13:07 PM by windhunter7 » Logged


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    « Reply #649 on: February 01, 2016, 11:12:16 PM »


    well, making a custom model from scratch doesnt really give you the rights over it, after all, nintendo characters has their own copyright; following that logic, Sony could put nintendo characters in their games because they made models of said characters by themselves without ripping any model from a nintendo game
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    windhunter7
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    « Reply #650 on: February 01, 2016, 11:47:42 PM »


    Actually, both Nintendo and Nano would have some form of copyright over said character. Nintendo would have full copyright for the ideas(In that case it would actually be a trademark), but Nano would hold copyright because it's "art", and any art has its own individual copyright. And with your example, Sony would have a copyright where they would own the rights to the models, and Nintendo wouldn't be able to steal them.

    Btw, Sony could technically do that, in the first place, and maybe even get away with it in court, because of a thing called "Where's the line to where ideas are protected by copyright and considered 'Art'?". Because most ideas are not protected by copyright. Some aren't even protected by anything.(e.g. Labels calling things "HP" for Hit Points or "MP" for Magic Points are examples) And those that are are protected by patent or trademark, which function entirely differently than copyrights. In fact, Nintendo, when they were first starting out, actually won this EXACT type of lawsuit against Universal, because Nintendo made a character, Donkey Kong, that looked like, functioned like, and even was atop a tower that the hero had to climb to, just like King Kong. Even the same name, Kong.(Kong I know for a fact is not copyrighted; it's in so many games, I'm actually thinking it might just be a foreign word meaning "Monkey" or "Ape")

    Copyrights(Specifically Video Game Copyrights) are literally the most complex type of laws in the entire world, so I don't expect you to understand them. I don't expect anyone to really understand 'em. Heck, I don't understand some of it.
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    « Reply #651 on: February 02, 2016, 01:04:29 AM »


    It's not a clear cut black vs white scenario. You could take an edge case of people hacking into your dropbox. I could answer with authors that prevent people from posting valid hacks for selfish reasons.

    The reason we're still going for that approach is because we've never had incidents like the former happen, but we've had creators that did the latter. I can sympathize with the desire not to get your work released before its due date, but considering how rarely that situation has popped up, and how less damaging it is compared to something like actual BV thefts, we might as well do it on a case-by-base basis if that ever happens. It still outweighs the need to check for permissions or the awful idea of giving users the ability to take down edits of their work.

    We're making an exception for PMDT members to be immune from reuploads for a period of time. We're adding the possibility to take down duplicates to mitigate the "damage" of WIP files. I'm also discussing with L_L on an idea that could ease things up even further for PMDT members.
    Finally, you all seem to be grossly underestimating the power of having a civil discussion with users who re-uploaded your work. If you're just about to release your thing and get the duplicates replaced, I doubt anyone would care much about keeping the WIP on.

    But that's as far as we're going to go. We're not going to make even more of an exceptional rule just for the former PMDT.

    Copyrights(Specifically Video Game Copyrights) are literally the most complex type of laws in the entire world, so I don't expect you to understand them. I don't expect anyone to really understand 'em. Heck, I don't understand some of it.
    You really don't because you can't copyright/license copyright-infringing material in the first place.
    Copyright is literally the most simplist set of instructions by giving exclusive rights to the holder for use and distribution. Exclusive means they decide what done with their material and no one else.
    The only remotely complex thing about copyrights is the Fair Use exception, which mods do not fall under.
    « Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 02:16:36 AM by Miacis » Logged

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    « Reply #652 on: February 02, 2016, 02:20:34 AM »


    It's not a clear cut black vs white scenario. You could take an extreme example of people hacking into your dropbox. I could answer with authors that prevent people from posting valid hacks for selfish reasons.

    The reason we're still going for that approach is because we've never had incidents like the former happen, but we've had creators that did the latter. I can sympathize with the desire not to get your work released before its due date, but considering how rarely that situation has popped up, and how less damaging it is compared to something like actual BV thefts, we might as well do it on a case-by-base basis if that ever happens. It still outweighs the need to check for permissions or the awful idea of giving users the ability to take down edits of their work.

    We're making an exception for PMDT members to be immune from reuploads for a period of time. We're adding the possibility to take down duplicates to mitigate the "damage" of WIP files. I'm also discussing with L_L on an idea that could ease things up even further for PMDT members.
    Finally, you all seem to be grossly underestimating the power of having a civil discussion with users who re-uploaded your work. If you're just about to release your thing and get the duplicates replaced, I doubt anyone would care much about keeping the WIP on.

    But that's as far as we're going to go. We're not going to make even more of an exceptional rule just for the former PMDT.

    This is missing the point entirely -_-

    Let me try again:

    Mods that are obtained in a dishonest manner (i.e. without the creator releasing them first), should not be allowed on the vault. This would apply to everyone, not just the PMDT.

    No modder would appreciate their unfinished work being posted if it were leaked/stolen. It utterly baffles me that submissions of stolen work would even be allowed here.
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    windhunter7
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    « Reply #653 on: February 02, 2016, 10:14:46 AM »


    I actually have an example of what Sandfall means:

    Before this hack of mine was released, it was a WIP, because I was trying to figure out how to make the Metals work. The person who requested it asked for the DL link of the unfinished version, and, without asking me first, uploaded it to the Vault without my permission. He added me as a collaborator, which I was at least happy about, because I did create the model import, so I get downloads from it.

    Note: I could've requested it be removed if I wanted, or just plain edited it to remove the DL link or re-direct it to my DL link, but I didn't, because I wasn't mad at him for it, and the reason is that I saw that he appreciated my work. Do note, though, that this was only an example of the type of thing that Sandfall was talking about, just to prove his point.
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    « Reply #654 on: February 02, 2016, 09:23:12 PM »


    It's not a clear cut black vs white scenario. You could take an edge case of people hacking into your dropbox. I could answer with authors that prevent people from posting valid hacks for selfish reasons.

    The reason we're still going for that approach is because we've never had incidents like the former happen, but we've had creators that did the latter.

    Yeah, I guess the former has never happened because someone took stuff from our SVN, not a dropbox, and they gained their access through trust instead of hacking. Darn. You got us. Those are totally different situations.

    This is exactly the kind of theft you just described, and you know it, and you have the power to do something about it, and you're choosing not to. There's no slippery slope here. You could do well known and liked artists a solid, but instead, you're letting them down.

    I'm so disappointed in this site right now. This is the community I learned to mod in, and this is well below the mutual respect I'd expect from it, no matter how you want to rationalize it.
    « Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 09:27:01 PM by HaloedHero » Logged



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    « Reply #655 on: February 02, 2016, 09:29:32 PM »


    I don't see why we don't just do a poll. Wouldn't that be a bit simpler to settle this argument? Although I'm pretty sure that the outcome would be like 12 to 1 that uploading edits to leaked PM content is something that shouldn't be allowed.
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    « Reply #656 on: February 02, 2016, 09:36:38 PM »


    I don't see why we don't just do a poll. Wouldn't that be a bit simpler to settle this argument? Although I'm pretty sure that the outcome would be like 12 to 1 that uploading edits to leaked PM content is something that shouldn't be allowed.

    Your word doesn't have much merit around here, it seems. Dunno why you're so persistent.

    The fact of the matter is that the entire thing is rather shady, whether the leaked stuff is already circulating or not. While the ex-members of the PMDT who posted here are rather helpless in stopping the circulation of said leaked content, it doesn't mean that having them made publicly downloadable HERE isn't shady as well. It's all a mess honestly.

    I sympathize with the PM peeps here, that work in particular is sensitive and shouldn't really be uploaded by anyone outside of those who made it.

    Of course, my word has very little value here too. But if windhunter's posting here I may as well too. c:
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    so im just saying hopefully somebody can look into this if not ill probably take a shot at it later on because right now im too busy partying with some [censored]es

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    « Reply #657 on: February 02, 2016, 10:30:10 PM »


    I don't see why we don't just do a poll. Wouldn't that be a bit simpler to settle this argument? Although I'm pretty sure that the outcome would be like 12 to 1 that uploading edits to leaked PM content is something that shouldn't be allowed.
    Why not this?
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    « Reply #658 on: February 03, 2016, 12:14:07 AM »


    Because if we asked the community to make administrative decisions, there'd be comments on the Vault, packs wouldn't require a full credits list, all Sonic recolors would be banned from the Vault ever and any popular user asking nicely could get executive decisions done with no regards for double-standards or long-term consequences. :v
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    « Reply #659 on: February 03, 2016, 02:15:02 AM »


    Why not this?
    Seems pretty redundant to do a poll about the fate of Vault entries.
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