Isaac: Golden Sun Project*!!!Beta V1.1 Is Released!!!*2/17/2012*

[Uncle0wnage]

Thanks, I found out that glitch with the dash attack during a match yesterday, and I'll try to fix it today. I also agree that his side special is hard to hit with, I will increase the size of the hitbox, because I think that was one that was extremely small. I can try half range on the downsmash and put a weak hitbox on his sword. I'll send you an updated .pac when I fix these and a few other issues. Thanks again for testing!

@cloud   
Can I just ask what is "awkward" about side special?

[Mi$teRC]

Okay, I'll have a video prepared tomorrow, but here is my analysis.

Neutral B - This is a massive love/hate relationship.  The hand itself is great and the effect is nice, but the range and speed is abysmal.  In the game, the hand travels a very short distance.  I had always pictured this as a more of a short to mid-ranged counter or disrupting move as opposed as to the approach they gave him as an assist trophy.

Side B - I like this move.  I agree that the hit box is a bit tiny, but that's not really too bad, considering after a little practice I was able to land it pretty consistently.  Increasing the hit box may make this move a bit too broken.  Instead I would improve his speed in which he travels through the air.

Down B - Gaia!  Gaia!  Gaia!  I cannot describe how much I enjoy this move.  I was worried that the area of effect would be too large, but now I'm more concerned it's too small, actually.  The effect is gorgeous, and the damage is fair.  I would increase the range, but also increase the charge time.

Up B - Great recovery move off the edge provided you were spiked, but not much else.  It kind of got in the way a few times on Final Destination actually, and resulted in multiple deaths.  That's my fault on that point, however I would recommend giving him an opportunity to do something while free falling, as he is incredibly vulnerable if his uses this on the ground.

Air Neutral B - I have to be honest, I do not like this move.  At all.  Being able to defeat an enemy at 0% never seemed right to me.  Just work them over to the edge and basically once your at the edge and they're off the stage, it's a free point for you.  I would highly recommend changing this move.

Air Side B - I'm making it painfully apparent I'm not a fan of Isaac's aerial game.  The spiking potential of this move is pretty viscous, but the difficulty of landing it is exponentially more difficult than on the ground.  This is where I would recommend giving a greater hitbox, although I would also recommend a different move.

Air Down B - I'm very happy to see Ragnarok in the game, but I have to say I am disappointed how it turned out as a basic move.  I feel this epic of a skill deserves Final Smash status.  The difficulty in landing it is great, and the payoff is slim.  The effect is nice, however, I cannot fault you for that.

Side Smash - Probably Isaac's main killing move.  I find it a bit odd that the second hit has vertical knockback, but that's not that big of an issue.

Up Smash - I will never... NEVER like Vines.  I choose to call this move the Djinni Vines because Growth would require the usage of Djinni beside Venus, which would take away pretty much Isaac's entire moveset.  As for how it looks and the effectiveness, I would rate this one as decent.  Although personally I see it more as a Down Smash than an Up Smash.

Down Smash - I didn't care for this move.  The effect was very visually appealing, but the effectiveness of it wasn't particularly useful.  If they are slightly out of range they are safe, which is to be expected, but if they get in your face, then you are screwed.  It was difficult to land, and even being fully charged, it didn't really prove to be much of a hindrance.  At 130%, it failed to take out Scott Pilgrim even though it was fully charged.

Air Side Smash - See Air Side B

Air Up Smash - Excellent move.  Great for juggling, and that crit is very useful.  Although in fairness, I think the percent of landing it should be reduced because next to Echo, that was my main killing move.

Air Down Smash - The Spire looks great, but again, the effectiveness wasn't that spectacular.  I was hoping for more of a Cloud Down Smash as seem in the Cloud that was commonplace before SDo0m took the reigns, which is a move I still miss.  In this attack, he pauses in air and launches out a few fireballs in an arcing fashion.  I would like to see that, but with Spire.

I have no real comment for his AA combos and the like, as they didn't differ too much from Pit's, which also may explain why sometimes the Move Hand would appear attached to Isaac's wrist.

His Dash Attack, see Air Up Smash.  Although the shield reflect perfection that the CPU possess even at level 5 ruined me.

Neutral A Air - a very basic useful technique.

I also forgot to mention, Force.  I hate to say it, but this move was almost entirely useless to me.  I rarely hit with it, and when I did, it wasn't worth it.

Anyway, that is my analysis.  If you have any questions or comments, feel free to contact me any time.  I will post a video at a later date when the Wii becomes available to me again to better illustrate the points I convered just now, should the need arise.

P.S. - I know at times I seemed overly critical and nitpicked tiny details, but that's because I want perfection from this moveset.

Thank you very much for your hard work, and I eagerly look forward to what you will do next.

[Uncle0wnage]

Thanks for the critique, I'm actually glad you think he is underpowered, because having an op character is my worst fear. I'll see what I can do about some of your suggestions, but some I just don't agree with.

[Kamina]

I just noticed that Isaac can't short hop within 5 mins of testing the newest version... (he just does his jumping animation and lands before even leaving the ground.)

[Mi$teRC]

The new update is much better.  I noticed the altered knock back on Echo, and the range on Quake was reduced.  This made a very drastic impact on Isaac's game.  I had issues with the fact that more than half of Isaac's ground attacks launched his opponents skyward into the area where I had the most difficulties.

I did notice one thing that I didn't notice on the first moveset.  His aerial move did not hit a jumping opponent, or even an opponent in the air.  Which made edge guarding significantly more difficult for Isaac which I liked, but in situations outside of it, it did nothing unless the opponent was already on the ground.

I'm downloading movie maker as I type, and will post a video shortly demonstrating some of the things I've covered here.

And here's the video.  WARNING:  I am far and away one of the least charismatic people you've ever met.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Ju8KxJCik" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Ju8KxJCik</a>

[Ninka_kiwi]

Holy crap, the new beta of Issac plays SOOOOO much better!
I really love how his d-smash works now, I like that it hit's twice if you hit with the sword.
Makes it much more useful.I also tried the new texture in game and it also looks awesome
loving the work you have been doing and thank you for letting me test him!

[Kamina]

So far with the newest release, my only problem that I've noticed within about 20 mins is that Isaac feels underpowered in general, and also his U-air does no damage if it's not a critical hit.

[kenshen]

So my review of Issac so far

neutral b: Its a nice attack that reaches far across the stage the speed needs to be uped i think

Side b: not loving this attack I've had a few incidents where I've killed myself using this attack :O he jumps to far and i find myself frequently flying off the stage in the middle of executing this attack

Down b: Its a nice attack overall Its slow and short ranged to the point where i have to be right up on some one to use it...

Neutral A: its a nice attack quick effective the combos are nice with the hand appearing while he spins it around like pits blades over all nice

Up A: OK this attack is not  my fave with him reaching into the sky summoning vines to hurt the enemies i just wish he had a normal sword attack when you don't charge...

Down A: Its a flashy attack that looks cool and could possibly be awesome except for the fact that its way to ranged its to far from Issac's body to do any real damage and over all a sluggish attack that could be awesome

Side A this attack is rape thats all

now to go try the new beta...

[checkmate]

Hello everybody,

I think Isaac is much improved, and is pretty balanced in my eyes.  He feels like he is "almost there" to me, although I admit I would need a lot more time to decide if he is "completely balanced."  I put those words in quotes due to differing opinions people will have.  Several notes and questions I have are the following:

* He is very fun to play as.

* He seems much stronger than the first beta but not overpowered.

* I will say his moves seem to do their job well and they all seem fair to me.  I admit it didn't seem that hard to balance something until I realized that one must test everything at once.  What I mean is, an attack by itself is much easier and less complex to judge than that of a series of moves.  (Example questions are: Can he combo his moves together well?  If so, how easy and rewarding is it?  Is anything too easy or too hard to pull off?)

I did have some questions for Uncle0wnage or others willing to answer.

Has the hitbox on his up-tilt shrunk?  I seem to whiff every time against a standing still CPU.  Perhaps I just need to account better for character size and other PSAs I may be playing against.

Has his Side Special had a reduced jump or lift if starting in the air?  I used to be able to grab Final Destination's edge from a decent distance (Sort of like Sonic's Side Special, I would classify this as an alternate or secondary recovery move). Maybe my timing is just off.

Non pertinent question for Uncle0wnage below:

His dash attack critical looks like the Ninja/Disciple/Master class tree move "Annihilation," was that on purpose?

I'm sorry about the late results, and I hope some of this helps.  I'd also like to thank you (Uncle0wnage) again for starting this wonderful project I am now participating in.

checkmate

[Uncle0wnage]

Thanks for the comments, I plan on some intense testing after I get back home. His up tilt on the ground hasn't been changed since the first beta, and neither had his side special. His dash attack is Annihilation. His new air neutral b is Halt. All of his moves are classified as Venus psyenergy, except for his utility psyenergy. His up air is Condemn, it's not supposed to do damage. It and the dash have a 5% chance of criticaling, that's why his dash has the endlag, so both moves aren't broken.

[Mi$teRC]

Halt is an interesting addition.  It's tricky to land which is fine because it completely disables an opponent briefly, leaving them vulnerable to an Echo or Quake.

I didn't really notice too many differences that had much of an impact on Isaac's play style.

I'm still in love with Gaia, although I did notice that if you hold down Down B even after you've charged the attack once, Isaac will charge again.  I don't recall this having happened in previous iterations of the move set.

I'm liking this more and more.  All that's left now is a final smash and a port over another character so I can keep Goku.  Of course, if it comes down to it, my fangasm will force me to pick Isaac over Goku.

[Uncle0wnage]

I don't think Isaac will be able to be ported. :/ He should be usable with the alternate file loader, though.

[Mi$teRC]

The new Side B is viscous.  I was not expected such a drastic speed boost.  I'm okay with it, although I wouldn't mind seeing it a little bit slower.  Like halfway between what it is now and where it was.

The altered hit boxes made a huge difference, as did the Retreat + Ragnarok combination.  The CPU did not see that coming.

[kenshen]

So i was testing the new version and I've come to a conclusion his Side B =  i mean good loard i pressed that like 30 times it was like the perfect way to move around as long as you weren't on final destination or animal cross stage basically small stages = insta death  with side b on bigger stages its side B side A rinse repeat. but all of his other attack tweaks make him awesome i love the range on his down A not to little not to much just right. Also i love how well his animations flow i know some characters :cough: Loyd :cough: just feel like moving statues in a fighter game called brawl so over all right now i would give Issac 8/10 just because of spammy side B and his cape isn't animated but no need to worry about that right now just make Issac play better and I'll be happy.     

[Uncle0wnage]

your comments on the side-b are noted, I am currently altering it. I knew it was broken, I just wanted to know if it was heading in the right direction. Also, I can't animate his scarf, it doesn't have any bones. There's nothing I can do about it.