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Author Topic: [Official] Project M discussion: RIP  (Read 734601 times)
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SonicBrawler
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    « Reply #15 on: April 15, 2012, 07:14:22 PM »


    I heard a rumor saying it will eb out when it gets to dev version r7000. righ tnow its at r6994
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    Thany
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    « Reply #16 on: April 15, 2012, 07:53:16 PM »


    Well, I have my likes and dislikes of it like many others.

    My likes are how it's fast. I never cared for Brawl's speed, which is one reason I play Brawl+, I prefer playing SSB's in a faster, more aggressive environment, regardless of the level of "competitive depth"(especially because of how Berserker-esque I play.) I also love the return of L canceling. And the new ledge occupancy thing for tethers is genius! vBrawl should've had that ;__;

    My dislikes are how the majority of the characters are handled, and I'll go into some depth with this.

    There were a lot of character changes that I found interesting and liked a lot. Lucas is one that I think is fantastic, especially given how it changes him from Ness more by giving him a new, more useful Up B, among other things.
    I like Ike's new tweaks as well, it gives him some improvements without completely changing a lot about him.

    Then we have changes like Lucario. Lucario is one of my mains, and I personally didn't like the giant overhaul it got. I do like how the SideB has use in the air now(again, this should've had aerial use by default. C'mon, Sakurai : /), but everything else that was changed just seems too different now. It doesn't seem like the Lucario I've come to enjoy playing as. It's something that I feel a lot of PSA's succumb to - a moveset that just isn't very...Smash Brothers-y. But it is still an interesting idea nonetheless.

    I find Wario is another example, but to a lesser degree. His changes make him reminiscent of his earlier days starting on the Gameboy with Wario Land, but I'm not too excited about the radical level of change. I'm not really one to believe in remaking a character from scratch for the sake of being competitive(although, de-cloning is still an idea I find appealing), but then again, I'm either the world's most competitive casual or the world's most casual competive player.

    My idea would be to instead focus on improving what they have, as opposed to changing a bunch of things, or to keep the changes to a minimum, a la Lucas.

    And I know this will seem like a minor nitpick, but given how I'm very anal retentive about all things about Marth/Roy(this may have been changed in the second demo. Haven't nabbed it yet) But some things with Marth that were not really changed from an aesthetic point of view.
    Many of his animations were different in Melee, but I'll just bring up two attacks that looked different, with one of them moving in the opposite direction.

    His 3rd down side B hit was not changed back to Melee's, nor was his fourth up hit. The 3rd down hit is less of a problem, but the 4th up it travels the other way now. This was not changed in this first demo, and it seems contradictory to say all his Melee hitboxes were restored when that attack goes in the opposite direction now.

    Pic time!(Go! Go! 10 second doodle powers!)

    Left is Melee's, right is Brawl's

    And I find Velen brings up a good point about balance. Instead of bringing everyone up to the Fox/Falco/Marth/Shiek/etc range, I think it'd be good to have things a little lower. I recall reading that Pokemon Trainer(With all 3 mons together -  not the "wild" ones) was cut for this reason - He just couldn't fit in the competitive level the others were able to.
    I, personally, found Marth was pretty overpowered in Melee. Same goes for Falco. It felt like when I played as or against these two, it didn't require the effort/skill to be as good with them as it did when using a character cursed to be in the lower tiers, like Roy or either Link, or God forbid Bowser...And even then, with a low tier character, sometimes all the skill in the world will not save you... ;__;

    I can understand the goal of P:M, but I think making everyone better/viable would be easier if the 'bar' weren't set as high as it is.

    But, either way, I still did enjoy the first demo a lot, and I'm looking forward to what is to come. I hope to get my hands on that demo soon  Happy Face
    « Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 07:57:24 PM by Thany » Logged

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    « Reply #17 on: April 15, 2012, 09:14:04 PM »


    >.>
    <.<
    .
    .
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    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-auNIazCg0" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-auNIazCg0</a>
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    Albafika
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    « Reply #18 on: April 15, 2012, 09:56:12 PM »


    No, because "[censored] tourney[censored]s" and [censored] "Melee 2.0". :V They wanted an expansion pack, not a [censored] sequel. Well now they made their own, I hope they're happy.
    If you don't give a [censored] about this, why do you even post about it?

    I'd have rather had the demo be released before making a thread like this, but oh well.. lol
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    « Reply #19 on: April 16, 2012, 12:01:34 AM »


    If you don't give a [censored] about this, why do you even post about it?

    I'd have rather had the demo be released before making a thread like this, but oh well.. lol

    Agreed.  A lot of the ranting going on is based on a lack of information or outdated information mainly because of the fact that:

    1) Demo's not out yet (though that's our fault, we've been frantically working to get stuff ready but we've been encountering a couple of problems)
    2) Very few here watch our streams. 
    3) Heck you may not have even had a proper look at the official P:M site, since that at least has up to date character info now on all the demo 2 roster.

    Let's at least wait til demo 2 before making big rants.
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    Velen
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    « Reply #20 on: April 16, 2012, 12:18:34 AM »


    Agreed.  A lot of the ranting going on is based on a lack of information or outdated information mainly because of the fact that:

    1) Demo's not out yet (though that's our fault, we've been frantically working to get stuff ready but we've been encountering a couple of problems)
    2) Very few here watch our streams. 
    3) Heck you may not have even had a proper look at the official P:M site, since that at least has up to date character info now on all the demo 2 roster.

    Let's at least wait til demo 2 before making big rants.

    -sorry, but you're simply using those things you stated as an excuse to brush off any good points anyone here may have had at all.

    I've already read all the pages on the Project:M site. One doesn't need to actually try the demo in order to say what one feels at first glance, and not having tried the demo does not invalidate how someone feels about it at first glace either, no matter how much you may think otherwise.

    I said what I said based on your words, what I read, what I saw in the demonstration videos on the general changes page, and my own thoughts and feelings of how balancing should be handled.

    So far I see no effort to make any changes to the top-tiers after everyone has been given their changes, and I already stated how I feel about giving the rest of the cast something new while the Top Tiers stay their same old stale selves from Melee with no real changes beyond aesthetics. They bring nothing new to the table now. Everyone else but them has something new now.
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    « Reply #21 on: April 16, 2012, 01:44:10 AM »


    -sorry, but you're simply using those things you stated as an excuse to brush off any good points anyone here may have had at all.

    I've already read all the pages on the Project:M site. One doesn't need to actually try the demo in order to say what one feels at first glance, and not having tried the demo does not invalidate how someone feels about it at first glace either, no matter how much you may think otherwise.

    I said what I said based on your words, what I read, what I saw in the demonstration videos on the general changes page, and my own thoughts and feelings of how balancing should be handled.

    So you haven't actually watched any up to date gameplay of it?  What you've basically done is the equivalent of forming an opinion of a game just by reading previews and watching old trailers.  If you're going to construct some kind of "first glance opinion" of something, at least have the decency not to dwell on one thing like a hawk.  There are 29 characters, yet you insist on dwelling on the three that haven't received changes. 

    So far I see no effort to make any changes to the top-tiers after everyone has been given their changes, and I already stated how I feel about giving the rest of the cast something new while the Top Tiers stay their same old stale selves from Melee with no real changes beyond aesthetics. They bring nothing new to the table now. Everyone else but them has something new now.

    Because they don't NEED anything new.  Whether you like it or not, the primary target for P:M is Melee enthusiasts who do a lot of competitive play.  Melee's competitive scene is still pretty prominent and has been for almost a decade now.  Those players are going to want to see those top characters able to pull off all the things they could before.  They'll want to see Fox and Falco with all their old tricks.  If they felt stale, then this competitive scene would be dead but it isn't.

    HOWEVER

    Unlike in Melee, every character is good enough to hold their own against these guys so it's down to the players to find ways to take these former top tiers and adapt to these new threats.  The characters have enough depth and the fast paced and fluid environment of the game allows this kind of leeway.

    No, because "[censored] tourney[censored]s" and [censored] "Melee 2.0". :V They wanted an expansion pack, not a [censored] sequel. Well now they made their own, I hope they're happy.

    Yeah, comments like this make it hard to take you at all seriously sometimes.  At least Velen and Thany and co had the decency to come up with decent enough reasoning as to what they weren't looking forward to as regards to the project. 
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    « Reply #22 on: April 16, 2012, 02:02:20 AM »


    Hey SDoOM, did you guys make any extra changes to the characters that you all haven't listed on the P:M website? Also did you or any of the mods have the chance to check my post for Wario? As I stated in it, its just an idea..I don't know anything about PSA'ing but the concept seems simple, its just a animation change with accompanying sfx and such but the original move properties and such remain the same, I was just looking on some feedback to see if it would be a good idea or not
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    LC-DDM
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    « Reply #23 on: April 16, 2012, 05:44:24 AM »


    I honestly don't care, I've never liked the competitive scene. You can call me close-minded, but I don't create a project around that piece of info.
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    Albafika
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    « Reply #24 on: April 16, 2012, 06:22:35 AM »


    I honestly don't care, I've never liked the competitive scene. You can call me close-minded, but I don't create a project around that piece of info.
    Well, LC, it doesn't means only competitive players would enjoy it either, y'know? ._. You can play it and see if you find it fun to do so.
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    « Reply #25 on: April 16, 2012, 07:04:09 AM »


    In all honesty, I at one point wanted Melee. That was BEFORE I found out about the competitive players. After like two years of getting Brawl, I hacked the Wii, got Melee through "fun" means, and realized it's floatier than Brawl and not as fast as advertised. In the end, it's not really that great a game, and whatever fun it had was sucked out simply because you have to play a set way in only four or five stages, not counting counterpicks (if any), the mere mention of items makes tourneyfans rage, and apparently playing with a character I like means I'm a scrub, instead I should play with what others think I should play as, which is why I LOVED hearing about that story that MLG (I think it was that anyway) only allowed tournies with items. There is something being done wrong when even other tourneyfans reject a game for it's pro community.

    Bottom line, I highly doubt a mod that would turn Brawl into Melee 2.0 would make me want to play it again, simply because anything of interest to you doesn't interest me. At all. Pretty sure I'm entitled to my opinion, and I did this post with the least amount of random [censored]ing possible. I can't get any less offensive than this.

    And before anyone asks, I'd rather play with the PS2 controller because it's more comfortable and doesn't have a mutant button layout. Not hating, just saying.
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    « Reply #26 on: April 16, 2012, 09:24:25 AM »


    Just curious: What're the deadly freezes that are keeping the release about? If its the training thing I doubt there's a way around it...

    Aaanyway, I'm sad that this re-clones (somewhat) Ganon and Falco, I'd have been more hyped for this if they were changed further from brawl like Charizard or Lucas (Although I'm gonna point out if the changed made to him were to improve, then you guys should look at B+ Lucas, just messing with some stats and he became waay better than vBrawl in which he was already epic with the right skill) That being said, the character I'm most hyped about is Lucario, it is a shame to lose so much but from what I've seen what he's gaining will make him deadly (+I may enjoy checking out his coding <O< >O>)

    @LC The floatiness is good, I have no idea why in P:M they seem to want it reduced :L characters are floaty because that makes awesome aerial combat which, due to people being flung around everywhere, happens a lot. Just look at vBrawl squirtle, if you think he sucks its just because you don't know how to play his air game, his only weakness was not having a real Down special because he had to share with 2 other guys inside some other guy's pocket :|

    Here's what I think all smash brothers games should be like: FAST horizontal, SLOOoooooooooow Vertical... and what makes vbrawl super slow compared to melee is the huge meaningless hit lag, land lag, dodge lag, attack lag, lag lag lag all over in every move for no reason at all instead of just ending it quickly allowing the next attack XP In other words it was slow horizontal D:
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    « Reply #27 on: April 16, 2012, 09:35:33 AM »


    i can't wait i really am anticipating snake,wario,lucario,charizard,zelda,lucus,sonic, and pit.
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    « Reply #28 on: April 16, 2012, 09:38:13 AM »


    Just curious: What're the deadly freezes that are keeping the release about? If its the training thing I doubt there's a way around it...

    According to the IRC it was Peach's Neutral B.
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    « Reply #29 on: April 16, 2012, 11:29:24 AM »


    Oh, so I can't have an actual "valid" opinion until Demo 2 comes out and I have played it and read everything on the website when said demo is released? Is that what you're saying? That's what I'm getting from this.

    So any argument or comment or opinion anyone has is null and void until the time specified by the Project M team is what you're saying?

    Such arrogance.
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