Custom Modeling and Rigging

[Kaye Cruiser]

This is kinda just meant to be a little easy-going discussion thread, but to all of the magnificent people here who can make their own models and rig them...How? Exactly where did you get the idea to do so? Where did you learn? How exactly do you go about it? Is it pretty stressful at times or do you find it to be a fun little project or challenge? Did you all take a class to learn it, or did some of you just start doing it on your own and were self-taught? o.o

I just want to know a bit more about what you guys do. Think of it as somewhat of an interview rather than a "HALP MEH" thread. Hence why I put it here. :3

Though if it's in the wrong place somehow, feel free to direct me as to where I should put it.

But yeah, what's the story, you guys?

[Spex130]

Hrm. Well, I dunno about the other folks here, but more or less everything I do is more-or-less self taught. I'd assume everyone else taught themselves too, but that's just an assumption.

I learned because everyone else here on KC-MM wasn't doing what I wanted, funilly enough. When model importing came out everyone was pretty much all "find model, rig model, release model, I don't rig no hands lol," and that kinda really annoyed me. Beyond reason actually. People not rigging hands is still my biggest hacking pet peeve.

The other thing was kind of a big wonder in the fact that "Wow ya'll, this is IMPORTING! We can do WHATEVER WE WANT! First we had vertexing! Now this here is vertexing WITHOUT LIMITS. Seriously! And all you guys are doing is straight imports? No changes to models, no materials, nothing!? Do you have no imaginations?

That's it. I guess if you want it done right you do it yourself."

And so I did. First was just pulling together different models that were already made, or editing them to be different. Like my Subspace Amalgams, or Popo over Marth and Nana over Ike. That kinda stuff. Using my imagination. I actually started making my own models for my Video Game Club though. They needed them, and I had the skills, so that's how it went...

Although, most of the models I've done haven't actually been shown here on KC-MM. I guess I should fix that.

But yeah, if you want to learn to model anything, the internet is so full of things that it's almost impossible to not find a good modeling tutorial. I'd say "box modeling" is a good place to start though.

[Kaye Cruiser]

"That's it. I guess if you want it done right you do it yourself."

^This. This right here is a principle I live by, especially when it comes to art, and one of the reasons I dabbled a little in hacking to begin with. I did Hyper Sonic because I wanted a moveset based off of one of Sonic's forms with some ideas from later games to give a "Modern" feel and I wanted it done right.  I did Onslaught Falcon because I wanted an overpowered Falcon moveset that was still fun to fight and use and could still be beaten. MAX Onslaught was just what Leafbarrett and I did for fun. XD And Sonic the Hedgehog: Full Throttle because I wanted a moveset based around Sonic's full abilities, potential and speed along with absolute control over every aspect of his character.

All of which, while still popular, are dated and could use revamps now, but I'm still happy with how they turned out and think they all make great Boss movesets. They may not be the absolute best and I'm sure someone else could do it better than me (Probably my pal SDo0m), but I think they turned out the best they could in my eyes, as someone who wanted to do something no one else was doing at all.

I kinda figured there would be some of you who had a similar feeling when it came to modeling as well. I won't lie, I'm definitely interested in modeling myself as I have a couple characters of my own that I'd love to play as over certain people.

I've actually done similar stuff to putting different parts of models together. For awhile, I would merge different vertexes and textures together to make something new or just a bit different. I've done it a lot and have gotten great results (though I haven't released all of them), but I felt so limited since I could only put pieces of things together. I wanted to have complete freedom and be able to put out something of outstanding quality. Something that I could enjoy and be proud of and that others just might like too, even if it's from something they've never heard of. Or even something silly like your Popo and Nana. I love those. XD

What's "box modeling" though? o.o

Also, I'm guessing that by your last statement, teaching yourself how to model the way you do now wasn't actually that difficult or brainscratching of a task?

[Spex130]

Well, box modeling is modeling using around 2-4 different 2D drawings of a character to "trace" a model into 3D.

Like, ehh...

Say, this:

(although that's pretty old)

As for teaching myself modeling, I don't actually remember it. Like, taking a class or anything. If I needed something I looked it up, and I intuition'd the rest.

It more or less always started with "Huh, well let's give this a shot" and ended with "well that came out better than I expected, lol."

[BlackJax96]

Spex, you took exactly what I was going to say except for paragraphs 5 & 6 and said it. lol

I think I had to teach myself just about everything I enjoy doing (programming in Visual C#, modeling in 3ds Max, drawing with a pencil on paper, making music in FL Studio). My school is super boring and only offers classes like dance, drama, choir, band, generic art... No programming or modeling classes.
._.

I picked up 3ds Max 8 way back when I joined so I could do the whole new vertex hacking stuff and I guess my skill evolved from there slowly as I got used to using 3ds Max.

After joining this forum, I learned a valuable lesson: The only way to get something done the way you want it done is to do it yourself.

What's "box modeling" though? o.o

Also, I'm guessing that by your last statement, teaching yourself how to model the way you do now wasn't actually that difficult or brainscratching of a task?

You create a new box around the general area you're gonna be modeling and then shape it to what you want it to be.

I wouldn't say learning to model was too difficult. I just find that you gotta have the patience to just model, model and model some more until it looks exactly how you want it to look from all angles.

Oh and use only quads!!! (and maybe just a few triangles here and there for rounded stuff) For some reason I used to have this idea that you should model using triangles. Nope, bad idea. Only triangulate the mesh when it's done.

And of course, you gotta get used to the interface, controls and shortcuts.
Keyboard shortcuts are a major time saver, especially when you're doing some kind of repetitive task such as selecting lines in a ring or loop or mass-creating/connecting vertices.

Personally, I like to start off with a box. Then I select a line and click "Ring" so it selects all four lines around the box. Then I click connect to make a line loop in the center. Then I drag that into place, repeat. At some point the mesh starts to get complex, so then you start mass manipulating the vertices you've made so far using some neato buttons.

My favorite things to use are the symmetry modifier, relax, cut, soft selection, ring, loop, etc. I could probably go on for paragraph upon paragraph talking about all the cool stuff I like to use to manipulate vertices.

I like to stay relatively low poly as well, and then turn on NURMS every once in a while to see my mesh smoothed out. The smoothed out mesh is then what I use to make the final product when I'm done.

[Kaye Cruiser]

Oh hi there Tohka. So this is the new pass-time you found for when Shido isn't around. ¦D

(making music in FL Studio)

(Think you can point me in the direction of a good starting point for that? I can't figure out FL Studio to save my life. >>)

Well, box modeling is modeling using around 2-4 different 2D drawings of a character to "trace" a model into 3D.

Like, ehh...

Say, this:

(although that's pretty old)

As for teaching myself modeling, I don't actually remember it. Like, taking a class or anything. If I needed something I looked it up, and I intuition'd the rest.

It more or less always started with "Huh, well let's give this a shot" and ended with "well that came out better than I expected, lol."

Well ain't that a delicious cup of luck? ¦D

Seriously though, that's pretty cool. Box modeling, from how you described it, seems like it's be pretty simple for someone like me if I'm supposed to use different drawings. o.o Though the concept itself seems a bit over my head at the moment. x.x

You create a new box around the general area you're gonna be modeling and then shape it to what you want it to be.

I wouldn't say learning to model was too difficult. I just find that you gotta have the patience to just model, model and model some more until it looks exactly how you want it to look from all angles.

Oh and use only quads!!! (and maybe just a few triangles here and there for rounded stuff) For some reason I used to have this idea that you should model using triangles. Nope, bad idea. Only triangulate the mesh when it's done.

And of course, you gotta get used to the interface, controls and shortcuts.
Keyboard shortcuts are a major time saver, especially when you're doing some kind of repetitive task such as selecting lines in a ring or loop or mass-creating/connecting vertices.

Personally, I like to start off with a box. Then I select a line and click "Ring" so it selects all four lines around the box. Then I click connect to make a line loop in the center. Then I drag that into place, repeat. At some point the mesh starts to get complex, so then you start mass manipulating the vertices you've made so far using some neato buttons.

My favorite things to use are the symmetry modifier, relax, cut, soft selection, ring, loop, etc. I could probably go on for paragraph upon paragraph talking about all the cool stuff I like to use to manipulate vertices.

I like to stay relatively low poly as well, and then turn on NURMS every once in a while to see my mesh smoothed out. The smoothed out mesh is then what I use to make the final product when I'm done.

I think I understood about half of that. Maybe. XD;

So it's not hard, just rather long and tedious depending on what you're trying to make. I'm guessing you try to stay low-poly so everything works fine whenever you import it? And I'm guessing "Quads" refers to polygons made from shapes with four sides. What shapes tend to be used the most in those cases, then?

I think I sort of got what you were talking about with the "Ring" thing...Maybe. I have no clue what "NURMS" is, though.

[BlackJax96]

Oh hi there Tohka. So this is the new pass-time you found for when Shido isn't around. ¦D

INDEED

(Think you can point me in the direction of a good starting point for that? I can't figure out FL Studio to save my life. >>)

Actually, no. :L
I found that most FL tutorials on Youtube were way too specific, hard to follow and always used plugins that I didn't have, so I just messed around in it until I got comfortable navigating and making stuff.

Like I said, literally self taught. ;-;

I think I understood about half of that. Maybe. XD;

So it's not hard, just rather long and tedious depending on what you're trying to make. I'm guessing you try to stay low-poly so everything works fine whenever you import it? And I'm guessing "Quads" refers to polygons made from shapes with four sides. What shapes tend to be used the most in those cases, then?

I think I sort of got what you were talking about with the "Ring" thing...Maybe. I have no clue what "NURMS" is, though.

Nah I stay low poly so that there's less vertices for me to deal with. Think of it like keyframes for animations; instead of managing a value for EVERY FRAME HOLY GEEZUS you only edit values at certain key points. So I could have like 3 vertices to make a bent line and then smooth it to have a really nicely bent line.

Quads (four sided polygons, yeah) are the best since you can use the ring and loop buttons on their lines and they're easy to work with.

Ring means lines parallel (well not exactly parallel, but just on the other side of the quad) to the selected and loop means all lines with the same vertices are selected in a long line.

And NURMS is just some thingy that interpolates vertex values to make a smoothed mesh.

[Kaye Cruiser]

INDEED

Actually, no. :L
I found that most FL tutorials on Youtube were way too specific, hard to follow and always used plugins that I didn't have, so I just messed around in it until I got comfortable navigating and making stuff.

Like I said, literally self taught. ;-;

Gah, I see... -.o

Superman - Then There's No Time To Waste!

Guess I'll suck it up and figure it out myself then. ¦( *nods*

Nah I stay low poly so that there's less vertices for me to deal with. Think of it like keyframes for animations; instead of managing a value for EVERY FRAME HOLY GEEZUS you only edit values at certain key points. So I could have like 3 vertices to make a bent line and then smooth it to have a really nicely bent line.

Quads (four sided polygons, yeah) are the best since you can use the ring and loop buttons on their lines and they're easy to work with.

Ring means lines parallel (well not exactly parallel, but just on the other side of the quad) to the selected and loop means all lines with the same vertices are selected in a long line.

And NURMS is just some thingy that interpolates vertex values to make a smoothed mesh.

I see. That actually all made very basic sense to me. o.o

Thanks for the explanation. It should help out a lot if I ever manage to give this all a try. This talk has been pretty eye-opening and entertaining so far. :3

[Spex130]

As another self-taught user of FL just like BJ, I can say that he's pretty much right. If you can find a good tutorial though, even if what they're doing is stupid you can still learn some basic stuff. It's how I learned to master (a little) and tweak up my own instruments.

And also, as a massive plug (that I already gave to BJ, lol) you can use Sculptris to turn your lowpoly heads/bodyparts into higher-poly versions. It gives you really precise control to model extreme details on difficult shapes. (Like hands. I flippin' hate modeling hands the traditional way.)

EDIT: It's like manual NURMS. Or TurboSmooth/MeshSmooth but not on auto.

[Ninka_kiwi]

Yeah I've noticed there really aren't many good tutorials on modeling/texturing around these days.

While the likes of BJ and Spex do custom models, I myself mostly use a method known as mesh modding, which is using different parts of models to make one better or completely different model.

A good example of this would be the Cloud model I'm updating


And to unify the different parts I just put them under one big, nice looking texture.

I guess I should have outlined a character model I'm working on that doesn't have a 3D model, but I think using a finished product to show off how one can make 3D models from mesh mods is better over all.

I could make a diagram of my current model once I'm done I suppose.