anyone who says the lucario codes work is making it up. just saying, it is legitimately impossible for those to work on their own lol

and i'm not trying to be annoying on it, just saying flat out those lucario codes won't work

your lucario codes won't work, and i know it bc magus and I made them. His whole OHC structure is extremely complex and works entirely different than typical ASM codes do....

this is why if you don't know how the code works, you shouldn't post them

@ Shanus/HaloedHero: Well, if the PMBR leaders don't communicate all that well with their main coders, here's the long and short of it:

* There is nothing in our rules that prevents people from posting codes made by others, if proper credit is given.
* We've had other users showcasing works from people who had never uploaded their productions to BV, so anyone could enjoy their work.
* Whether those codes were stolen, copied from Dantarion's wiki/pastebin or willingly given really isn't something that concerns us, or even anywhere near our jurisdiction to be perfectly honest.
* You'll have to settle this with him in private.

Besides, I'm sure that if SonicBrawler is nothing but a thief and his code is a wrong one that works as poorly as it's claimed to be, it shouldn't take long for the PMBR to show the community the working version of it and supplant it.

I've already explained these points in a bit more detail to ds22, so asking in this thread will honestly not bring you any more answers than just asking him directly. We don't plan on seeing a repeat of ASF's Extra Character Slot massive derail, so if there are more complaints of this kind, you (and other PMBR members) will have to either take it to PMs with Vyse/Myself, or more simply, to the Moderation Corner so we can all participate.

Now, I won't have this brought up again. If anyone has any sort of complaints with the way we are running our forum, do it in the appropriate place. This thread is not an appropriate place.

Alright, I'll shut up. Just echoing Haloed's points saying if each of you end up with a corrupted save file, we told you so. A significant portion of our team lost our files several times over  as we developed these codes, because subtle changes would occur. Just a heads up to watch out for

The PMBR plans to do an exhaustive post soon with more details on the clone engine. However, doesn't KC-MM have a policy against stealing others work? As you can see by the codes he referenced, several members of the PMBR are referenced directly on the codelist as SonicBrawler obtained a leaked version of our codeset a long time ago and stole our codes (worst part is he even credits himself in the codes!)

Most importantly, I strongly advise each of you to read this thread as this code he is using has a high likelihood of corrupting your save file under specific circumstances as the old code stored data in unsafe locations. While this will not permanently damage your wii, you have a high likelihood of having to replace your save file somewhat frequently.

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-social-thread-v2.339825/page-25#post-15837937

It is fairly obvious where SonicBrawler sourced this from, and it was far from a finished product at that point in time.

It's just your word against that of others so far, so it's really that I'm trying not to take any side.
And, honestly, do I absolutely need to muzzle myself just because some hearsays 'might' give a somewhat bad image of a SSBB mod? On a thread read by probably like 10 users at most past the first page of walls of text? In posts of mine that I'll probably just erase if it proved to be a completely false lead?
Surely there's been a lot of time and effort that were put into this project. But I think you're taking my ramblings a little too seriously there.

I'm not really sure what dropping names here would accomplish besides making these people the direct center of attention (and annoying the limited audience we have here). I'll ask around and try to gather some chatlogs and whatnot and dump-PM them to you later so you can investigate at your leisure if that can reassure you. I'll send a copy to HaloedHero too.

Oh, and by the way, I'm not talking here as a representative of KCMM. At least not past the second quote in my first post.

Sadly, our team has experience verifying when our content has been plagiarized, so there is evidence beyond "our words against theres." It comes down to simply comparing if content/animations are frame-for-frame exact replicas, and given that we keep an ongoing subversion, we have recursive history as our animations have been built and refined over time. For this reason, I find it extremely unlikely that any work for Project M has not been completed internally by our team, given the fairly strict and peer-review standards we have in place. However, our team is interested in understanding these, so we welcome the names/data you offered to provide.

You'll have to admit, however, that those are very punctual and minor things compared to the changes that some characters like Wario, Lucario, Snake or Lucas underwent. Why didn't, say, Falco get so much attention to be made unique, if we go back on a seemingly popular example? He instead got reverted to his previous clonish state, save for, what? 2 attacks?

And you don't even have to look that far into the issue to see the reason. Quoted diretly from your website :
"Falco Lombardi is a very respected and equally feared name among the competitive Smash community, so it's no surprise that expectations for him are high going into Project M. He was one of the most changed characters from Melee to Brawl, losing many of his tricks and techniques that defined him in the previous game. Project M sees the return of the old bird of prey though, with his technical prowess restored in its entirety."
"As one of Melee's well-known Top Tier characters, great care was taken to recreate Falco's Melee-styled gameplay.

Why was Falco unchanged from Melee? Not because it would make him a more interesting or unique character, but because he was more powerful, "top tier", in Melee, so he needs to go back to it.

I think it might help you if I share a bit of Project M's history to better answer this question (and who I am, if you are unfamiliar). My history dates back to when I led the development of Brawl+, and left that modding team when I was no longer interested in its development. As someone who thoroughly enjoyed brawl modding, I set-out on a personal project (originally, as purely a thought experiment) to see if I can bring melee falco to brawl because I was a greater fan of melee. There was a lot of interest in this, the team grew, and project m was born with melee falco as a base.

However, I understand your concerns as to how/why we pursue things the way we do. The answer is that, to no surprise, our team was/is fans of melee and we used melee top tiers as our target base to build up to. However, this by no means suggests that we do not accept that brawl content cannot be quality (e.g. preservation of RAR, footstooling). Shadic provided an excellent point of Toon Link, who had a majority of his animations (and underlying moveset coding) built from scratch. He may not look like a radical overhaul like a lucario or wario, but I guarantee the underlying work was there.

This also tees up another point I want to make. The changes we make do not need to be explicitly justified with evidence. Due to the nature that we are building up an entire mod from scratch, I think its understandable that we use our judgement and style and apply the animtions that we believe best aligns with this style. If you think ganon looks better one way, I can argue it looks better the other. We built a team which internally has a strong alignment for specific aesthetics, and our resulting product is reflective of that.