Metal Gear Solid Needs More Hack Representation!

[Bent 00]

Nikita missle can be controlled slowly while an RPG cannot. Stinger would have a lock on ability, but to make it fair the damage would be about 10% damage. It would work like the Nikita, aimable in that matter like Pit's arrows. This all goes for the Stinger AND RPG.

Snake doesn't need another missile attack. He's already got one of the best movesets in the game - the only changes I'd like to see are:

1.) Changing his side/down taunts. (a salute, "!", or equipping/unequpping his SOCOM pistol are my favorite candidates for replacement taunts)
2.) Making his fsmash RPG aimable (before firing, of course) like Pit's arrows
3.) Making it so Snake can move around in his box, and not have to get out until the A button (?) is pressed (now I'm thinking Snake moving in the box will be too hard to animate properly, though...)
4.) Making it so Snake can drop grenades, C4, and maybe even land mines while under his box.
5.) Making it so that Snake can equip his SOCOM pistol, but NOT at the expense of losing another weapon. Perhaps a taunt could trigger the weapon change.

Have you seen MGS:TTS cutscenes? Snake did some crazy stuff that didn't look human at all. Remember when Rex was being activated? Snake did some crazy Jedi kick (And you could hear him wisper "FALCON KICK.") but it did not hurt Rex. I say that distance to Rex's foot was about 25 feet.

Yes, I've seen them. MGS: TTS was the first MGS I played.

Snake's up B could be some sort of jump then kick combo. I mean Cypher is ok, but it makes Snake look like a weapons only character WHICH HE IS NOT, in Brawl he may be, but were not finishing what Nintendo wanted, we are RE-DOING most of it.

The Cypher is a great recovery move IMO. I wouldn't change it at all.

Only Snake's smashes and specials are weapons. He actually has plenty of physical moves: his neutral A combo, all three of his tilts, all five of his aerials, and his throws.  I'd say Snake's current moveset is very well balanced.

Not to mention Snake dodged bullets numorous times. Most people who only know Snake from Brawl think he's just a guns-only character. His is athletic too.

Yes, and his athleticism shows in his tilts and his aerial moves.

[JOEYSX5]

Porno book textures have been ripped straight from MGS:TTS!

http://www.mediafire.com/?wf9d8ps177s276t

Now, before you ask any questions, this right here is not as bad as I thought it would of been. It's just a woman wearing a tank top with a FAMAS in her hand.

However, I have already made a dirty version by taking textutes STRAIGHT from a Playboy Book. No nudity at all, just some attractive girls wearing bikinis.

http://www.mediafire.com/?3epjbm62ia3r4po

It is slightly more graphic, but not as bad as the nude ZSS.
Feel free to use these textures in Brawl or so. Like always, the default magazine was ripped by Friedslick6...

The Book though needs to be vertexed, which we could vertex one of Brawl's items into a book.

[Bent 00]

The Book though needs to be vertexed, which we could vertex one of Brawl's items into a book.

Heh, which item would you put it over? Stickers? I'd say the banana peel, but then Diddy would be throwing porno magazines everywhere. o_O

[JOEYSX5]

The Book though needs to be vertexed, which we could vertex one of Brawl's items into a book.

Heh, which item would you put it over? Stickers? I'd say the banana peel, but then Diddy would be throwing porno magazines everywhere. o_O

I kinda like bananna peel idea to vertex. Just replace Diddy's Bananna Peel with I dunno, maybe a capsule. To do that just model swap in Diddy's MotionEtc file. I really wanted it to do no harm at all, but when opponents went to pick it up to throw it causes the "Confused or stunned" state, like when breaking your shield. Then after the stunning is over the book disappears from the opponents hand.  

To make vertexing bananna peel eaisier just model replace it with a sticker and use it as a base for vertexing.

[Bent 00]

I really wanted it to do no harm at all, but when opponents went to pick it up to throw it causes the "Confused or stunned" state, like when breaking your shield. Then after the stunning is over the book disappears from the opponents hand.

I don't like this idea. It's impractical. Once a human opponent knows what it does, they'll never pick up the book again, leaving Snake with a useless, not-that-funny taunt. If you made it so opponents entered "confused or stunned" state upon merely touching the magazine, that would be way overpowered. I can only see the porno book working if A.) it makes opponents slip on contact, and/or B.) it does nothing but minimal damage when thrown.

I think the porno book and smoking taunt ideas just need to be scrapped. They don't belong in Brawl IMO. The smoking taunt would be just as useless, since, to stay true to the original concept, it would damage Snake a little, and there would only be a chance the discarded cig would hit and damage an opponent. Bam, another taunt that would only be used rarely, if at all.

Let's narrow it down to the following ideas for new taunts, eh?

- Salute
- "!" alert
- Equip/unequip SOCOM pistol, or just pose with it or something

I know you're just trying to get more of Snake's personality into his taunts, but you've got to stay practical, without going too far just to please MGS fans at the price of taunt usefulness.

On a related note, are there any of Snake's lines from the MGS games which would be fitting if imported into Brawl? That might be an easier way to get more of Snake's personality in SSBB - just add a one-liner or two to one of the two taunts we want to change.

[JOEYSX5]

I really wanted it to do no harm at all, but when opponents went to pick it up to throw it causes the "Confused or stunned" state, like when breaking your shield. Then after the stunning is over the book disappears from the opponents hand.

I don't like this idea. It's impractical. Once a human opponent knows what it does, they'll never pick up the book again, leaving Snake with a useless, not-that-funny taunt. If you made it so opponents entered "confused or stunned" state upon merely touching the magazine, that would be way overpowered.

I think the porno book and smoking taunt ideas just need to be scrapped. The smoking taunt would be just as useless, since, to stay true to the original concept, it would damage Snake a little, and there would only be a chance the discarded sig would hit and damage an opponent. Bam, another taunt that would only be used rarely, if at all.

Let's narrow it down to the following ideas for new taunts, eh?

- Salute
- "!" alert
- Equip/unequip SOCOM pistol, or just pose with it or something

On a related note, are there any of Snake's lines from the MGS games which would be fitting if imported into Brawl?

Maybe when the oppoent touches the porno book, they go into a stun state. Then it dissapears. Then it's not to overpowered.

I like the lines, but they should be over the codec. I do like my equipt idea, but I wanted to take it to a better step. I think when at the CSS, you should be able to change Snake's attacks from there. Like changing his B to SOCOM, and his side B to a Stinger.

Then if you pause the game, the Snake player could edit his moves during the heat of battle, like in a firefight in MGS. The ! is ok, but I could import a Genome Soldier model over Falcon or somthing, then the ! will be good. I wanted him to keep the Box though. So, here is what I got in mind:

Up Taunt: Fast Box, you can run while inside it and plant traps, like grenades and mines.
Side Taunt: Salute for now.
Down Taunt: Porno Book, if an opponent touches it they get stunned, then after it's over the book disappears keeping it from being "broken."  

[Bent 00]

Maybe when the oppoent touches the porno book, they go into a stun state. Then it dissapears. Then it's not to overpowered.

No, that's still overpowered. Don't forget we're talking about TAUNTS here. They're not supposed to be useful offensively - Snake's box and Luigi's little kick are the only exceptions.

I like the lines, but they should be over the codec.

I wouldn't mess with the current codec lines, they're already VERY well done.

I do like my equipt idea, but I wanted to take it to a better step. I think when at the CSS, you should be able to change Snake's attacks from there. Like changing his B to SOCOM, and his side B to a Stinger.

If switchable weapons for Snake is implemented, then it's feasible to have Snake's starting equipment determined by a button press at the CSS, like how Zero Suit Samus is selected normally (by holding down R with Samus selected as you enter the SSS).

Then if you pause the game, the Snake player could edit his moves during the heat of battle, like in a firefight in MGS.

Now you're going too far to make Brawl more like MGS. Players should never be encouraged to pause the game in the middle of a match. -_-;

The ! is ok, but I could import a Genome Soldier model over Falcon or somthing, then the ! will be good. I wanted him to keep the Box though. So, here is what I got in mind:

Up Taunt: Fast Box, you can run while inside it and plant traps, like grenades and mines.
Side Taunt: Salute for now.
Down Taunt: Porno Book, if an opponent touches it they get stunned, then after it's over the book disappears keeping it from being "broken."

I agree with all that except for the Porno Book. It just does not fit, from my standpoint, nor does it make sense in the context of Brawl. Opponents getting stunned just for touching a magazine is ridiculous.

- Stuns opponent on pickup? No human player will pick it up more than once. Useless.
- Stuns opponent on contact? Too overpowered, especially for a taunt. This would be broken even over a stronger move - it's like being able to spawn Pitfalls whenever you want, except better.
- Makes opponent slip on contact? Wow, Snake can lay bananas now. Unnecessary.
- Only does minimal damage when thrown? Snake can lay static Mr. Saturns now. Again, unnecessary.

Does ANYONE else like the idea of the porno book as a new taunt? I say we should forget about it, since there are better taunt ideas we can use - if not the "!" alert, how about having Snake's down taunt be activating his Cloaking Device? Sheik can cloak in Brawl-, so it's worth a try on Snake.

[fox3.0]

  i see snake work. o this just came to me what bout playing as vamp or ((riden)>not for sure) that be fun   

[irishladdie727]

This has kind of gotten out of hand.  Far be it from me to discourage people's creativity, but we might want to reign it in just a little bit for the time being.  All I was suggesting was giving Snake new Taunts because all three of his Taunts are the same, and now we've branched out into adding movesets, and changing the fundamentals of the gameplay, and yadayadayada, and it's great to see people having all of these awesome ideas, but it's probably best to start small.  

I like the idea of Snake being able to run around in his box, but that would be very difficult to animate, and I don't really see the point of letting him drop mines/C4 from underneath it (something he's never been able to do in the games mind you).  It might be practical in the sense that running around inside the box is basically asking to get owned in the face, and you ought to have some defensive capabilities, but maybe it ought to be just C4, since the claymores are a down smash and the animation for those works differently than just "drop and go".  

Being able to switch to the SOCOM is a cool idea, but there's a question of balance.  It's all well and good to add things because they were in Metal Gear Solid, but you've got to remember that we're working with Smashbros Brawl here, not MGS 5, so everything and anything we add actually has to serve a purpose.  Snake already has a great moveset, in fact, he's top tier.  With things like Quicksilver's Gerudo Prince PSA, there were actual problems with Ganondorf's original moveset (no range, no speed, no reach, basically Captain Falcon) that were being addressed.  Not to mention that adding another projectile to Snake's moveset would be overkill.  ALL of his specials can be functional ranged attacks.  So while it's weird that Snake is missing his signature firearm, there's no real need to return it to him for the purposes of Smashbros.  But that's just my two cents.

Same thing with the porn book.  What gameplay purpose will it serve other than a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" to MGS fans?  We all loved making the Gurlukovich mercenaries jerk it on the job, but there's no real place for the porn book in Brawl.  Like Bent00 said, nobody's ever going to pick it up again once they realize what it does, not to mention that with Smash being a "2D fighter", you won't actually be able to see what's in the books in the first place.  And there's yet to be a suggestion for these that doesn't sound ridiculously overpowered.

Finally, what's wrong with the smoking taunt exactly?  Is this an anti smoking thing?  Snake is a smoker, it's like one of his dominant character traits.  It doesn't even have to be useful or do anything special, I was just throwing ideas out there to pander to the "new taunts must do crazy [censored]" crowd.  I think it would be funny if it took 1 or 2% of damage, but because nobody would use it then, I think the blunt doing fire damage is a pretty decent idea.  But the point is, if you want to add a taunt that's true to Snake's character, smoking is the way to go, maybe even more so than the salute.  This is a man who snuck a pack of cigarettes in his stomach.

Feel free to disregard this stuff, I'm just trying to refocus the discussion.  And we've yet to actually have someone offer to animate all of this...

[Friedslick6]

• ...I'll see to it with the genome soldier.
• Animated box hiding would make my day.
• The socom could act with the same attributes as Sheik's needles; that is, it's not powerful but shoots a far distance. In that way, it could replace something like ↓A (with other adjustments.)
• If people really want a magazine, so be it. Personally, the magazine's stun idea was mine. But I also believe it wouldn't work fairly in-game, upon consideration. At the time, it just made more sense to me that the magazine would have attributes close to that of the MGS series. My apologies.
• Perhaps as a taunt, we could have Snake pull out the magazine, look at it vertically and smile?
• And if Snake is going to smoke a cigarette in a taunt, I don't think that taunt should cause him any damage. In the MGS series, it took around 30 seconds for the cigarette to effect Snake.

[Bent 00]

This has kind of gotten out of hand.  Far be it from me to discourage people's creativity, but we might want to reign it in just a little bit for the time being.  All I was suggesting was giving Snake new Taunts because all three of his Taunts are the same, and now we've branched out into adding movesets, and changing the fundamentals of the gameplay, and yadayadayada, and it's great to see people having all of these awesome ideas, but it's probably best to start small.

I agree, this has gotten out of hand. Let's focus ONLY on Snake's taunts now.

I like the idea of Snake being able to run around in his box, but that would be very difficult to animate, and I don't really see the point of letting him drop mines/C4 from underneath it (something he's never been able to do in the games mind you).  It might be practical in the sense that running around inside the box is basically asking to get owned in the face, and you ought to have some defensive capabilities, but maybe it ought to be just C4, since the claymores are a down smash and the animation for those works differently than just "drop and go".

I'm fine with scratching the moving box idea. But perhaps we could still make it so C4 is drop-able while under the box, at some point...? Or maybe not. I liked that idea.

Being able to switch to the SOCOM is a cool idea, but there's a question of balance.  It's all well and good to add things because they were in Metal Gear Solid, but you've got to remember that we're working with Smashbros Brawl here, not MGS 5, so everything and anything we add actually has to serve a purpose.  Snake already has a great moveset, in fact, he's top tier.  With things like Quicksilver's Gerudo Prince PSA, there were actual problems with Ganondorf's original moveset (no range, no speed, no reach, basically Captain Falcon) that were being addressed.  Not to mention that adding another projectile to Snake's moveset would be overkill.  ALL of his specials can be functional ranged attacks.  So while it's weird that Snake is missing his signature firearm, there's no real need to return it to him for the purposes of Smashbros.  But that's just my two cents.

Same thing with the porn book.  What gameplay purpose will it serve other than a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" to MGS fans?  We all loved making the Gurlukovich mercenaries jerk it on the job, but there's no real place for the porn book in Brawl.  Like Bent00 said, nobody's ever going to pick it up again once they realize what it does, not to mention that with Smash being a "2D fighter", you won't actually be able to see what's in the books in the first place.  And there's yet to be a suggestion for these that doesn't sound ridiculously overpowered.

Snake doesn't need another missile attack. He's already got one of the best movesets in the game

The Cypher is a great recovery move IMO. I wouldn't change it at all.

I'd say Snake's current moveset is very well balanced.

Again, agreed - focusing solely on Snake's taunts now.

Finally, what's wrong with the smoking taunt exactly?  Is this an anti smoking thing?  Snake is a smoker, it's like one of his dominant character traits.  It doesn't even have to be useful or do anything special, I was just throwing ideas out there to pander to the "new taunts must do crazy [censored]" crowd.  I think it would be funny if it took 1 or 2% of damage, but because nobody would use it then, I think the blunt doing fire damage is a pretty decent idea.  But the point is, if you want to add a taunt that's true to Snake's character, smoking is the way to go, maybe even more so than the salute.  This is a man who snuck a pack of cigarettes in his stomach.

Feel free to disregard this stuff, I'm just trying to refocus the discussion.  And we've yet to actually have someone offer to animate all of this...

The smoking taunt would be just as useless, since, to stay true to the original concept, it would damage Snake a little, and there would only be a chance the discarded cig would hit and damage an opponent. Bam, another taunt that would only be used rarely, if at all.

I know you're just trying to get more of Snake's personality into his taunts, but you've got to stay practical, without going too far just to please MGS fans at the price of taunt usefulness.

Yes, it is an anti-smoking thing for me. Smoking kills... But you're right about it being one of Snake's most iconic traits. Actually, if the taunt only did 1% damage to Snake, and did ~3% damage to any opponent the discarded cig hits, that should be acceptable. 1% damage is negligible, and it stays true to the MGS games that way (in that Smoking harms Snake a little). Or, it could just not damage Snake at all - he would only smoke for a few seconds, after all.

Looks like Smoking is the favored candidate for Snake's new down taunt now... Unless you guys liked the Cloaking Device idea? I think that has potential. It could work only until A.) Snake gets hit, or B.) a certain amount of time passes (10-15 seconds, maybe)?

The socom could act with the same attributes as Sheik's needles; that is, it's not powerful but shoots a far distance. In that way, it could replace something like ↓A (with other adjustments.)

Sounds good, except for replacing ↓A (smash or tilt?). I don't want to see any of Snake's current moves sacrificed for entirely new ones.

Perhaps as a taunt, we could have Snake pull out the magazine, look at it vertically and smile?

Nah, let's just forget about the magazine idea. It doesn't fit.

And if Snake is going to smoke a cigarette in a taunt, I don't think that taunt should cause him any damage. In the MGS series, it took around 30 seconds for the cigarette to effect Snake.

The smoking taunt should do either 0% or 1% damage to Snake, and 0-3% to any opponent the discarded cigarette hits.

[JOEYSX5]

I like that idea of Stealth Camo. It beats the Porno book by alot. Thank you for the idea.
This is what we got so far aster this discussion:

^Taunt - Fast Box, I still want the idea to move around. Also, what are you talking about running around and asking for a beating in a box? It's better than just sitting in the same spot, which is even worse... But yeah this WILL be very hard to animate.

>Taunt - Snake pulls out a cigaratte and smokes, if the cig touches opponents it causes fire damage, maybe 1-2% damage.

vTaunt - Snake activates Stealth Camo, or OctoCamo. Snake turns invisable for 8 seconds, allowing him to fight during this time invisable. If an opponent is near Snake while he activates it, it causes electric damage to oppoents, around 1-2%.

At the CSS when selecting Snake, a box should open saying, "Weapon Customize"
You should be able to edit weapons and such, and I am aware of how big of a step this would be. Though doing it through PAUSE as well would not be so good quoted by Bent00.

B Attack:
(1) Grenade
(2) SOCOM
(3) Stun Grenade, I could use what I did, imported Snake's grenade over Deku Nut.

Sorry very much if this got out of hand. If I upsetted anyone with great ideas I am truley sorry.      

[irishladdie727]

Yes, it is an anti-smoking thing for me. Smoking kills... But you're right about it being one of Snake's most iconic traits. Actually, if the taunt only did 1% damage to Snake, and did ~3% damage to any opponent the discarded cig hits, that should be acceptable. 1% damage is negligible, and it stays true to the MGS games that way (in that Smoking harms Snake a little). Or, it could just not damage Snake at all - he would only smoke for a few seconds, after all.

Eh...  Not in video games.  I see where you're coming from, but in this case I think you're being a wee bit oversensitive.  I had a grandfather die of emphysema, and well... this was my idea.  Cigarettes are just a thing, and the way I see it, it's your own choice to slowly kill yourself for a couple minutes of Nicotine buzz each day, so I'm pretty relaxed about it.  Beyond that, Snake is a fictional character, and I honestly think, especially since this is a mod, we really shouldn't be giving a [censored] about what's PC or appropriate.  Besides, that's why we should have him take a little damage when he does the taunt, that implies cigarettes are dangerous.  Which they are.  Nobody's tried to play that down, not me, not Hideo Kojima.

Looks like Smoking is the favored candidate for Snake's new down taunt now... Unless you guys liked the Cloaking Device idea? I think that has potential. It could work only until A.) Snake gets hit, or B.) a certain amount of time passes (10-15 seconds, maybe)?

Well, his entrance is already his cloaking device fizzling out...  I'm really liking box, smoking, and salute.  Nice variety, nicely representative of the character, good for showing off after a kill.  And I didn't mean to actually veto the running around under the box idea.  That would be absolutely hilarious.  I'm just wondering if we could actually make it work.

Speaking of cloaking devices, I actually got a really nice looking stealth camo texture working in Brawlbox.  The problem is, when I load it into the game, it has no effect.  As in, it just shows the normal Snake texture I put it over.  Any ideas why this is happening?  The texture isn't actually fully transparent, it's just this weird meshy stuff I was able to make by experimenting with Image formats.  Here are some pics:



I tinted it green because that's how it looks in the games, but I can also make it just normal transparency.  Pretty cool huh?

[JOEYSX5]

Nice texture, but is that an effect or a multiple texture?

Lol It's green, but still good.

[Bent 00]

Nice camo texture, irish. I hope you can get it to work properly.

It looks like we can pretty much nail down two taunts, the box and the smoking. Both are very iconic of Snake. Now we just need to decide between the salute and the cloaking device.

Just a quick thought: Isn't it possible to have a taunt be two different taunts, depending on whether you're facing left or right? Falcon's down taunt (Show me ya moves) is like this... Perhaps we could include both the salute and the cloak if we could take advantage of this "two-in-one" taunt.

Now, about the smoking. I can agree with your stance on it, irish. If we do implement this as a taunt, it should damage Snake 1%. But how much should it damage opponents, and how should Snake toss the cigarette? I'm thinking behind him, either over the shoulder or just flicked casually behind him. I'd like it best if it could be thrown over the edge at an opponent trying to recover, like what you can do with the box KO.

One problem I can foresee, though: It's going to be a long taunt. Possible animations include:

Snake pulling out a single cigarette and lighting it (~1-2 seconds)
Snake putting away the lighter and just smoking (~1-2 seconds)
Snake discarding the cigarette (~1 second)

We're looking at at least a 3-5 second taunt. It had better be interrupt-able. >_>

Then there's the technical side of it. Will we have to replace another item with the cigarette? Or can it exist merely as part of the taunt animation? I'm hoping the latter is the case.

...Does anyone experienced with animating have an opinion on all this? -.-