A few questions.

[Naruto200Man]

Okay, I have seen wackalpaka's vid on adding bones to a trophy etc and exporting the model to a playable character. I have an epic idea for a character hack/psa but I need to know a few things first.

1: If the model is from the game and has bones/animations, etc, such as an assist trophy. Would there be any trans N problems if I ported him/her onto someone else who's actually in brawl?

2: If a model has a weapon, and the weapon is a second model seperate from the character. Could I make this model ported over to X character's artical. Like how Fireking made Krystals staff out of Fox's blaster?

3: is it possible to change the hand that an artical, say DedeDe's hammer, is held in, but only temporarilly through psa?

[Gamma Ridley]

1.) There could be problems, depending on who you port and who you port it over. For example, porting Samurai Goroh over Ganon causes TransN problems, and he runs in place. This is easily fixable through Tabuu

2.) You can port a model over an article and summon it through PSA quite simply

3.) You can change the hand an item is held in, granted the character has two HaveN bones (which is the case with most character.) You can only change it through hex, however, so it's not temporary. Dedede's hammer is actually part of his body, if I'm not mistaken.

And if you're planning to port a trophy model over another character and make it playable, don't get your hopes up.

[Naruto200Man]

Nah, the character isn't a trophy model. It's a character model that has it's own animations, proper arm/leg etc bones, sounds, and even hitboxes. I won't say who it is or discuss the psa on this forum till he's finished ^+^ dun wana spoil the surprise

and I'm pretty sure that the character I'm porting it over to has two haveN bones.

[Gamma Ridley]

Who are you porting it over?

[Naruto200Man]

Who are you porting it over?

Marth, Ike, Ganondorf, or Dedede, MAYBE MK cause of all the ext graphics he has ^+^

[Gamma Ridley]

Marth, Ike, Ganondorf, or Dedede, MAYBE MK cause of all the ext graphics he has ^+^

Ok then, they all have two HaveN bones, I think. You just have to watch out for Mario, Samus, Pikachu... and a few others that I don't quite remember.

[Snoopy]

i think Gamma hit the main points pretty well, but i'll add just a little to it.

1)  you can put almost any model over a character in Brawl and have it work, it really just depends on how much work you want to put into it, and if the bones actually move the model (the trophies can't be moved from the position they're in).  simple swaps would be one Brawl character to another, including assist trophy characters.  harder swaps would be models from different games, but just because you can't 'borrow' a lot of animations like you could with already in Brawl models.  so, yes, an assist trophy over a regular character is perfectly doable.  and about bone matching issues, it depends on who you're putting over who.  for the most part, assist trophies have a TransN of 2, and a BodyM of 1.  i don't have my list on me, but quite a few characters have a TransN of 2.  the reason i bring up the BodyM bone is because most Brawl characters have a bone called EyeYellowM bone of 1, and will only show when you have a smash ball.  so don't be surprised if the assist trophy character doesn't show up the first time.  these problems can be corrected through Tabuu or hexing, whichever you feel like.  and i have a guide that should help on character swapping, http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=9248.0, just because there's going to be more than just the TransN and BodyM bones that you could have issues with.

2)  articles can also be swapped if they're not on the character to begin with, like all of Link's and TL's weapons (except the master sword).  the main issue is that they will still act exactly like the replaced article, and i don't think that's changeable (articles can be slightly edited, but i'm not much of a PSAer, so i'm not entirely sure, i'm just going off of experience).

3)  this one depends on what you want to change.  if it's something attached to the character model, like Dedede's hammer, then you could just use animations to change where it is, since they have a few bones for themselves.  if it's an article, then you can't really just have it in a different hand for one animation, but not the next.  the way an article is called in PSA is just this (basically):  Generate Article 0.  that's it.  you have to make a separate line just to even make the article go away.  if it were a graphic effect, then you could attach it to whichever bone you want, but articles are one bone per article (changeable through Tabuu).

so after typing all this, i realize that it was a bit more than i intended to type, but oh well.  model swapping isn't hard, if you know what to do.  and that's why i made a guide for doing so.  but if you have any questions, just ask.  i'm the self proclaimed model swapping expert here (or i'm just the one that posetd the guide first, and now everyone else just uses mine and asks me for help and questions).

[Naruto200Man]

Well if you could help me get ZSS over someone with a big psa size like Ike, MK or peach (preferably peach because the hair would move) without any trans N etc glitches. That'd be great.

The only real problem when I transfer ZSS to peach is a trans N glitch in the walking animation. Otherwise it works just fine. But in the walking animation (I assume this has something to do with their "on ground" status?) the P1 icon and shadow's dont move and she snaps back to where she started lol it's also odd, but even on peach ZSS's hair won't move with peaches animations, yet when I port the entire motionetc it does move. This also happened when I tried her on sheik.

This is what the bones of my mystery character look like btw. in case that helps.



As you can see, he, or rather it has all the 'proper' bones(Proper being left arm, right arm etc) set up in the way a playable character has them set up, what saddens me is he has no hand/finger bones. which means I can't animate his hands T-T but other than that he should work perfectly normal over someone with similar proportions?

[Gamma Ridley]

The TransN prblem is easily fixable. Go to Snoopy's guide, it'll help you with a lot of problems you may have.

And, as you can see, he knows what he's talking about.

[Snoopy]

sorry it's taken me so long to respond, i've been in a car for 7 hours today.  the good news is that i now have access to all my hacking stuff again.

so, ZSS huh?  well, to begin with, ZSS's TransN is 8, so without needing to hex or rename anything, she could go over Marth, Fox, or Wolf because they all have TransN bones of 8.  if you want her to work on Peach, then rename BlinkM to TransN, and it will work.  of course you'll need to add extra bones into ZSS so that the game won't freeze when you grab her, and i have bone counts at the bottom of the first post of my guide.

and as for the secret character (the bone structure isn't helping me figure out who it is and i did look through and i couldn't find a similar one, but that doesn't matter much), the hands will be stuck in one position (you could always vertex them to a different position, but it would still only be that one), but yes, it will look okay if you put it over someone with a similar bone structure.  this http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=5410 is a good example of doing just that, putting an assist trophy over a character with a similar bone structure.  of course, you could fix the bone translations in the animations to match the new model.  either way.

[Naruto200Man]

If you need help finding the model, he's from a certain stage in brawl and yes I do mean a stage that you brawl on. Should narrow down the search a little. (I'll pm a picture of him if you're still curious/want a sneak peek it's cause he's never been done before and like I said I dun wanna ruin the surprise )

[Snoopy]

no need, i found it.  i didn't think of looking in the stage files for the character.  but i do agree, it would be a pretty cool character.  about a year ago, someone was working on another character from that stage, but he only got a few animations done and gave up.  of course this was back before the bone adder was released, and we didn't know how to fix many of the glitches, and we could only replace the Alloys, for the most part. 

so basically, you'll have to do a few things before being able to 'borrow' animations from other characters.  first, you'll have to remove most of the bone names, for example, standard Brawl bone names are like TransN, but most stage character names go like this, StgGreenHillKnuckles_TransN.  you'll have to remove everything for every bone up to and including the underscore, thus leaving TransN.  then it will be able to use other character's animations.  though, looking through the bone names, not many of the bones would move anyways.  you can also rename the rest of the bones to match Brawl standards better, just look at Mario (for example) and rename the bones accordingly.  but you may be better off just making all new animations for it.  if you borrow animations, it will require translation and possibly rotation fixing, which takes a lot longer to do than to just make an animation (in my opinion, but sometimes is worth it).

it will also need some Tabuu editing, since it only has a TransN, and you need a HipN and ThrowN to avoid the throwing/being thrown glitches.  i'd rename either the second or third bone (index 1 or 2) to ThrowN since both of those bones are model bones (they aren't attached to a specific part of the model like an arm bone is), and the bone below the TransN to HipN, and then adjust the BoneRefs in Tabuu to match.  oh, and while in Tabuu, you'll want to edit the Model Display so that the whole model will show up.  usually the first Entry under Hidden is the EyeYellowM reference, which makes a model bone hidden until a smash ball is obtained, is what you want to change to something else.  just change it to match the TransN index, and the model will always show, and no need for hexing to change the bone index.

so, it will take some work, but it would end up being a pretty cool character.

[Naruto200Man]

I gotta question, I can't see the bone names when I open the file up and go to that area(Yeah, I know you said TransN is always the first but X_X) in tabuu. Do I open FitCharacter.pac of fitcharacter00.pac to see the bones. Is there something wrong with the program :l

I think what I'm going to do is if I port an animation, I'll just make a new animation with the same number of frames as the animation I want to port to the character and just mimick those animations that way.

I kinda get what your guide says for the most part, but if I get into some problems, I think I'll just pm you about them, since I don't want ANYONE to know about who/what it is. Because frankly, this would probably get a LOT of downloads just from the epicness of the idea. So I won't be posting download links to him untill he's completely finished. That way there won't be anyone copying anything. Although, since I'm not quite as experianced, I may have to ask for someone like Hollow or EternalYoshi(Yeah I know there's more members here, but those are the only 'greats' I can remember off the top of my head) to colaborate.

[Snoopy]

you open the FitCharacter.pac file (the PSA file).  it won't show the bone structure like it does in BrawlBox, but it will have an area to change everything.

in Tabuu, go to FitCharacter/MiscData[0] -> Sections -> Data -> Misc -> BoneRef.  this is where you define where certain bones are located.  it most likely won't show the names, it will basically say 'no reference model loaded', so here's a pic of which references are which (they're pretty much universal, and the first 5 are the only ones i ever change).



you mainly want the TransN, HipN, and ThrowN to match the new model, although the XRotN and YRotN bones can also be useful (if the model has enough spare bones).  to change the references, click the one you want to change in the left window, and then in the right window it will show a spot called Bone Index which is what you want to change.  so change that to what you want, then in the left window, right click the one you just changed (it will turn red to signify something changed), click 'Open Hex View', then change the current number to what you just changed it to in the 'As Int' tab at the bottom of the new window (and then click in one of the other tabs just to make sure the change goes through).  and now it will work.  then to save, right click the FitCharacter/MiscData[0], and click Save As.  it will then crash, but it saves the changes.

with the animations, that should be the best.  that way you don't have to spend as much time fixing the animations as making them.

and you can always pm me if you have questions or if you need help, i usually check here a few times through the day.

[Naruto200Man]

Question, is the bodyN the topN in the model or something else?