The PMBR and how they handle those who mod/hack Project M

[_Data_Drain_]

I hate to break it to you all.

But they will most likely not ever change the clones to more in character versions of themselves.


In this game's case. It's Melee pros before anyone else... As far as the veterans go.

If we're wanting to see these types of changes... This might have to be a third party mod of... A... Third party... Mod... *Ahem* Anyway. Bottom line. They aren't going to listen to this type of feedback. (Even if it is true, I mean who wouldn't want to see Ganondorf as he is in the games?) But still. It would I guess be tough for a Melee player to get used to the clones being 100% gone...


Although, at the same time. Players like me who played vBrawl a lot would have a hard time getting used to say... Lucas, who plays SO much differently now. (IE, no Zap Jumping.) And having a DACUS... Anyway. That's my 2 cents in this topic... Money well spent. ಠ_ಠ

[HaloedHero]

I don't know why people expect us to do something radical to Falco. It's not about whether there are more/less people who want Falco to go back to being a straight up clone of Fox. The game we set out to make includes making characters who were popular/good in Melee play the way they played in Melee. That was one of our primary goals, and we've been clear about it from the start. It shouldn't come as a disappointment to anyone. If it's a big problem for you, pm is probably just not the brawl mod for you.

This sometimes includes animations simply for utilitarian purposes(such as restoration of range on an attack, etc). I completely understand and even agree with the urge to de-clone Falco, but I don't get why everyone keeps saying the PMBR should be the ones to do it. If you want to see that kind of Falco, crack open PSA and Brawlbox and make it happen.

Brawl characters get more radical changes not because we don't care what Brawl players think, but because they can't stay the same as they are in Brawl without throwing off the game we want to make. So, we take that as an opportunity to do new, interesting things. Indeed, you would have to agree that every character was changed radically from how they are in Brawl, just not from how they are in Melee, because we're trying to make the game more like Melee, not Brawl, which, again, was our mission from the start and shouldn't surprise anyone.

As an aside, Falco really doesn't play that similarly to Fox in Melee. His shine brings his combos airborne, and his crazy jump height makes him good with vertical follow ups. I see him as good in the air. Plus, for me, Falco and Fox's similarities make sense as part of the same team. I understand that you don't feel that way, but that's entirely subjective, and I actually think it works well.

[LC-DDM]

Not really a big deal. I just find it funny how people complained about clones in Melee, then complained about the lack of past characters as clones in Brawl, so to fix it they make them clones again and that somehow makes it okay. Just feels like a zigzag that makes zero sense.

I guess people want PMBR to make it because maybe then it'd be made official, or something.

[spiritpyros]

Snake 2.5 works for me while sonic works but just the down b is not funtional

[DocStrange]

I completely understand the intent of returning popular Melee characters to their Melee gameplay, but I am still mystified as to why time was spent reverting unique animations to the previous clone versions when, in my mind at least, it is unnecessary from a gameplay standpoint. Things like Ganon's dair and Falco's jabs seem like they could easily maintain both their Melee properties and the more aesthetically appropriate Brawl animations.

But, on topic, while I do feel it's hypocritical for a project modifying another team's work to take steps preventing their work from being modified, it seems as though much of this is simply due to the way PM has to be coded to work, and that's fine.

I think the bottom line is I don't believe the PM team has a right to expect their work to not be modded, but I also don't believe it has any obligation to allow others to mod it. Or to worry about what others want it to be for that matter.

[ESPeR]

This has probably already been said, but I don't think it's in a fighting games best interest to change a characters popular play style. Also, Falco has an incredible air game. He does up kills and down kills fantastically and does a lot of jumping in his game play. It's like, he has wings, so he can jump and shoot with more efficiency than Fox or Wolf, and guess what, that's what he does. And again, everyones play style has been tweaked. Ganondorf has quite a bit of new life breathed into him, as does ("Dr.") Mario. I don't really play any of the other Melee greats besides Marth and Falcon, who have at least minor amounts of added flare in Project M *run of ledge, taunt cancel* Show me your moves! --> *dropzone knee* YES!

[SiLeNtDo0m]

I completely understand the intent of returning popular Melee characters to their Melee gameplay, but I am still mystified as to why time was spent reverting unique animations to the previous clone versions when, in my mind at least, it is unnecessary from a gameplay standpoint. Things like Ganon's dair and Falco's jabs seem like they could easily maintain both their Melee properties and the more aesthetically appropriate Brawl animations.

This statement here I feel is incorrect.  Even small animation adjustments can make a large difference to a move feels as a whole and what you can do with the move.  This was already explained before.  For example, a while ago we tried experimenting with giving Falco some more unique moves but with Melee hitboxes (for example transferring moves to his wings instead of his feet whilst trying to keep similar principles) but it just didn't feel right.  Certain moves couldn't do things they could do before, and hurtbox placements were all different for example.

Also, I don't know what you're talking about with Falco's jab.  Falco's jab IS his Brawl jab and always has been.  It's the one Brawl move we kept for him.   

[StarWaffle]

Whoever read all that deserves an award.

[Zoom32]

I hope this post has been helpful, I eagerly await your feedback.

Hello, OP. I am the real Zoom32. I apologize for the confusion; I wasn't angry at all with your tropes page edit; I just got the impression from the edit that you were unaware that the certain segment of the mod is meant to be closed off, so I made a note for exactly why it's hard to open up the file. I didn't mean to come across as a "f you for trying to break in" guy. I'm sorry if that's what it looked like, though. I was being strictly informational; in fact, I was actually just trying to condense the example information to be more concise, article-esque, and less of a "personal experience" with the game.

You probably already know this, but I am not in the PMBR (though I follow it closely enough to get update information quickly). I'm just a fan.