building a better brawl

[justadood]

with the new cloning engine for brawl, I was wondering how many different characters could fit together and still make sense. which characters could be used to best represent the games they are from, while still keeping a sort of variety?.. cloud and sephiroth for ff series..? would it make more sense for sonic to have knuckles and tails playable alongside him, or just shadow, or maybe all of them? who else should be in then? who could be used as a base?.. i have some suggestions, and i recently got a new computer and have been thinking about making hacks... i have a few ideas of my own for specific movesets, but i'd like to start a discussion to hear what the perfect version of brawl sounds like... ....(using brawl minus and project m for inspirational ideas)

Seriously, guys, mention ideas you have... i mean, for example, i haven't even played final fantasy, so i'd appreciate it if you could post any ideas for characters other than cloud or sephi that may belong in the game, and same thing for any games these characters are from.. :P


Existing characters

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Luigi

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Peach

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Bowser

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DK


Diddy


Yoshi


Wario


Link

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Zelda

Shiek


Ganondorf


Toonlink


Samus

Zerosuit


Pit


Ice Climbers


ROB


Kirby


Metaknight


King Dedede


Olimar


Fox


Falco


Wolf


Captain Falcon


Pikachu


Pokemon Trainer

Squirtle

Ivysaur

Charizard


Lucario


Jigglypuff


Marth


Ike


Ness


Lucas


Mr. Game n' watch


Snake


Sonic




Requested characters

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Zero

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Protoman

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Bass

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Shadow (the hedgehog)

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Knuckles

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Tails

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Mecha sonic

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Liquid snake

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Grey Fox

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Raiden

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Cloud

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Sephiroth

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Sora

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...i'm putting here a dividing line between 'other' (above) and nintendo (below) characters

paper mario--

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doopliss

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rosalina

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dixie kong

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king k'rool--

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waluigi

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baby mario bros--

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skyward sword link

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ghirahim/demise

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young link and adult link (OoT)*--

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four swords linkS--

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dark samus

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ridley

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black shadow--

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Mewtwo

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Deoxys

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Meowth

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Roy

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[Lillith]

Well, I'd definitely consider the characters they left out.
Roy, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, Dixie Kong are the only ones I can remember currently.

[justadood]

mewtwo, roy could go in like pm
dr mario and dixie could be alts for mario and diddy

[LC-DDM]

with the new cloning engine for brawl, I was wondering how many different characters could fit together and still make sense. what I mean is, which characters would be used to represent the games they are from?.. cloud and sephiroth for ff series..?

You started off well, and then just fell flat on your face.

would it make more sense for sonic to have knuckles and tails playable alongside him, or just shadow, or maybe all of them?

That touches on too many variables. If we're adding Shadow, we're going to need to add Liquid to the MGS series who will probably be a "no-weapons" Snake anyway, touching on another important point: If people [censored]ed about clones in the last game, why are they so hellbent on having them back in Brawl? Makes no sense. Likewise, having Tails and Knuckles implies that we'd need Gray Fox and Raiden as well, which... actually doesn't sound AS bad, and the chance of cloning is minimal, but having three characters for one guest franchise (not to mention Sonic as well) for a total of six? Bit too many if you ask me.
[/quote]

[...]i'd like to start a discussion to hear what the perfect version of brawl sounds like... ....(using brawl minus as a base)

No. If you're going to use a base, use Brawl itself. Never a mod. If you do, not only you're just making a compilation pack (of which there are A LOT in this section of the forums already), but you're making a compilation mod off of someone else's creations, which is kinda [censored] when you make a comp pack with Minus as a base (or +, whatever) and then add everything you like to it, not only defeating the point of the mod but also making you look like a tool when it turns out you didn't actually create any of that content. Using vBrawl itself has a lesser stigma. I mean yeah you're still doing a compilation pack and adding [censored] that you didn't make, but you at least aren't [censored]staining someone else's name. You're still taking credit for [censored] you didn't make though.

Bowser


i have some ideas. i'll post it later, i'm kinda lazy atm and really don't want to go past this last ..fjdnz... uumm... lost my train of thought.... haha, oh sheldon...

The Big Bang Theory isn't funny unless you enjoy making fun of people with autism.

[justadood]

keep in mind that it's not necessary to have an equal amount of characters for each game :P for instance you could end up with everyone from sonic heroes as either alts, or seperate characters, but gamenwatch probably won't need that.. (personally, i wouldn't mind replacing him with, say, paper mario?).. so some characters may need their "sidekicks", like knckles/tails (or raiden or grey fox) whereas some may prefer their counterparts like shadow (or liquid).. but then there are the multiple incaarnations of certain characters, like kiorby, link, fox, or mario, etc... what i'd like to see is multiple clones sharing a character pose slot, like being able to pick young oot link, adult oot link (could just be resizes for those two), and then twilight princess link with his slot, and variety for all of them between their special items and their sword techniques, etc...

and as for using brawl minus as a base, perhaps i should rephrase that: i'd like to use brawl minus as an IDEA base... for instance, the version of link they've made is the best (rather, the most comparable version) to represent link's incarnation in twilight princess... so if possible, i'd like to basically use link as a base to create a new oot moveset, in addition to a twilight princess link, taking inspiration from brawl minuses moveset for him... possibly a skyward sword link as well...

as for toonlink, i'd like for different options between a moveset specifically to represent each of his three games in the windwaker timeline, using different items, and then an entirely new moveset over a clone of iceclimbers to make a fourswords link, with many items from that series...

for fox, i just had in mind a double moveset, one for assault, and one for advent... since so far the idea is to just put together a variety of characters, the one gamma was working on may be able to fill in for this spot...
also to take away a little bit from his being a clone to fox, i was planning on trying to give falco an arwing for his fs, for instance, and to give him a shotgun for his neutral b that shoots three much quicker moving bullets for his neutral special (or maybe his side special :P) and making there be much more endlag, whereas wolf will get a chargeable laser that can shoot a shot about as strong as v brawl samus's neutral B.
Post Merge: February 01, 2014, 07:01:30 AM
for certain characters in particular, i want to be able to have just one, more completed version of that character... for instance, for donkey kong, i wanted a moveset with a few ideas from DK64, like the ground pound, and the ground slam he had, as well as the barrel firing from his barrel blast games as a possible upb, then a possible fs that relys on infinite up b's (infinite barrel blasts) while being invulnerable. also, while diddy has the peanut popgun from DK64, i was wondering if the way each of them could work was to be able to use an instrumanetal fs (diddy's guitar in that game, dk's drums) and one fs where they use they're kong barrels (diddy's jetpack and DK's invulnerability)... i was planning on giving diddy a more fox styled neutral B where diddy uses both popguns and 4 peanuts can be on screen at a time like in DK64, with a firing speed between fox's and falco's... also, i'd like the option to have their upBs to be like their "launch pads" from the game... at least from the ground... DK's with that instant blast from the ground, diddy with his tail jump thing that you need to hold the button for could still resemble the input of needing to hold upB to get higher... ... ...i have a lot of these kinds of ideas, so let me know right now if having more options for the characters that already exist doesn't sound interesting.

[Tyshy]

It sounds good to have extra characters in brawl, but does it work for riivolution?

[justadood]

i don't know yet, tbh. i hope it could work out for riivo, since i use it for my custom packs, but i don't see why it shouldn't work for it... maybe a new .xml for clones would be necessary, but i'm not keen on the details :P
i've been trying to think of a way for this game to be a little like mugen, but i don't want too many characters that don't make sense, so on this page i'm going to try to mention the bare minimum characters that should be included... i'll update the roster list i posted...

[libertyernie]

IMO a "complete" Brawl would not change anything that's already in Brawl, but only add things. If you change something, it's not exactly Brawl anymore (although, usually, it's better.)

[justadood]

changed the name now. and yeah, it didn't feel right to me either... i think of heard this phrase somewhere before ["building a better brawl"], but i hope it wasn't on this forum :P if it was, i'll think of another name

[Tyshy]

does anybody know how to change the portrait of characters in extra slots also when I put the hand on the extra characters he only clicks on the original

[justadood]

I for one haven't even tried the cloning engine yet, as i haven't had the time to pick up hack editing since my college classes began. but i'd like this question to be answered, if anyone knows more about this..?

[Kyouma]

roy, roy everywhere

[justadood]

lol, well actually fire emblem is another series i haven't played... never played any icarus, gamewnwatch, iceclimbers, final fantasy, or rob games... need definite help in those areas... but as far as all mario characters, link characters (thorough knowledge here), metroid characters, pokemon, sonic, starfox, kirby, and pikmin characters go, i've played almost every main title (at least once) for each of these, also including paper mario. i have read, watched playthroughs of, and heard the storylines of the mgs series, kingdom hearts, Megaman and F-Zero, even if i never have owned these games... so as far as the games at the top of this list go, i need suggestions from you all, hopefully with a few references, and i will make sure to read more about the characters you mention and watch as many playthroughs as possible to try to acquaint myself with those seriess... also, you guys are free to put up any ideas for characters you believe are missing from this roster, and bring up any ideas you believe brawl and this roster are missing, such as powerup ideas, moves that you think are missing, skins or anything else you think could, and therefore SHOULD be in here...

[justadood]

ok, put up a possible twilight link moveset (slight change.. mostly specials, but will put in a few more)

[Sirkura]

so i was playing the old snes today... and was thinking. holy crap! i don't think anyone has made a joe and mac hack, or even suggested it. you can't say they wouldn't fit in with brawl's cast.

a lost franchise: